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Q4RP: Cheating. Relationship imperative, inevitable moral hazard, or completely out-of-bounds?

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February 26, 2020


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Title Q4RP: Cheating. Relationship imperative, inevitable moral hazard, or completely out-of-bounds?
Author redpillschool
Upvotes 189
Comments 208
Date 26 February 2020 04:13 PM UTC (7 months ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/341060
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/f9vjrf/q4rp_cheating_relationship_imperative_inevitable/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
cheatingthe red pill

[–]∞ Mod | TRP Vanguardbsutansalt[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children) | Copy

Out of bounds obviously. What constitutes cheating is the real question and can vary wildly from person to person.

If you want an open relationship, then don't be a pussy and simply make your intentions known.

[–]Adviceaccoumt189 points190 points  (19 children) | Copy

Cheating sucks. I believe you shouldnt do it, and neither should your partner. It is an absolute disrespect, not only to your partner, but to YOU especially.

[–]NWDegenerate121 points122 points  (5 children) | Copy

And if you have kids, you are cheating on them too as it is them who will suffer most if there is fall out and they have zero control over their own stability. Being a man isn't chasing pussy. Being a man is doing the right thing, even if it means sacrifice on your own part.

[–]Adviceaccoumt71 points72 points  (4 children) | Copy

Agreed brother, Family first over pussy

[–]NWDegenerate69 points70 points  (3 children) | Copy

Glad I see that some people agree. Being red pilled does not simply equate to chasing endless tail for self validation.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy


[–]Metalcrazyx5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Redpill is only a metaphor for knowledge. It doesn't describe how you use it

[–]_do_not_read_this_23 points24 points  (9 children) | Copy

If you never promised her monogamy, then fucking other women isn't cheating. Basic sidebar material over on the Asktrp sub, ""Are we Exclusive: handling the talk"

[–]Adviceaccoumt53 points54 points  (5 children) | Copy

Yeah I am talking about monogamous relationships, I do not value anything else. In fact, I disagree with most if this sub and its moral values. It is too blinded by the western world and its values. I only come here to learn, as I have found some pretty great life tips fom here

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy


[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

100% between the sidebar and some outside reading materials mentioned in the sidebar that's all you really need, the posts here and on ask are fucking heinous. I alternate between laughing at how ridiculous the paper alphas sounds while spinning their web of bullshit, and disappointment at how misdirected and close minded people can be, even with such straight forward concepts. Just like many great teachings in the hands of selfish morons, it's like giving children dynamite.

[–]niceguyputin4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Same fucking here. The west is retarded that makes this sub seem a bit too polarised in comparison to the east.

[–]Adviceaccoumt3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I swear man, the west is fucked when it comes to this stuff

[–]Arnoux10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

It is probably some fucked up thing Americans think. Here in Eastern Europe if you are holding hands, kissing and having sex you are expected to be faithful to each other without talking about it.

[–]_do_not_read_this_5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy


[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Americans do require a treaty to be negotiated. It’s a cultural thing.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

that's how you see it, just dont date in general. To clarify, most women are open yo cheating on their partner, justifying it and claiming to give them freedom, but they will not allow you to cheat.

[–]Adviceaccoumt1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Way ahead of you, I've already decided agianst dating years ago

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nice job man, itll be for the better in the future

[–]StraightGangstaHack119 points120 points  (37 children) | Copy

A few years ago, I worked with a 10/10 Chad. Guy was from the islands. White women in the city loved him to death.

Once as he and I went out for lunch, a girl cold approached him. His response: "I've got three girlfriends already. But if you want to be number four..."

He got her number.

Life lessons. I tell every plate right up front, monogamy is a hard pass for me. I'm not going to go chasing them around and trying to police what they do, and I just ask the same in return.

It is absolutely amazing how well that works. I've had objections - but the simple fact that I'm honest and I mean it, works wonders. It also helps that women are cheating whores, and almost everyone you have that convo with, is a cheater themselves. Many will even admit it. For the ones that don't, I've gotten adept at surfacing it in a gentle, almost kind way. It's human nature. Isn't the important thing just whether you're happy with someone? Why waste each other's time with lies when we can be closer through honesty? Aren't those the most interesting relationships anyway?

I haven't yet had a girl walk over it.

[–]Zech4riah56 points57 points  (11 children) | Copy

Just for the audience and guys who are not 10/10. Ignore these:

I tell every plate right up front, monogamy is a hard pass for me.

It is absolutely amazing how well that works.

There is shitloads of better ways to do this without lying.

[–]MrAnderzon20 points21 points  (3 children) | Copy

Straightgangstahack is exercising some of TRP’s core principles. NGAF, Confidence and Outcome Independence

You don’t have to be 10/10 in looks. Honesty and Confidence go hand in hand and that’s what keeps this type of relationship going for however short or long it happens.

Remember it’s not what you say but how you say it.

If you have to lie to women that means you are dependent on the outcome and give a fuck too much.

For you to comment ignore these because you have to be 10/10 in looks is not helping anyone. Try it first before saying it doesn’t work.

[–]KingOfAllWomen2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You don’t have to be 10/10 in looks. Honesty and Confidence go hand in hand

Agree 100%

I'm no good looking guy, let me tell you that. Stuff I can't fix about face and jaw.

I'd still never beat around the bush with something like that. It's just so beta as fuck.

If you are so afraid to tell a girl that you don't want to be exclusive with her, that you LIE about it and say you will then cheat on her - that started with the fear of losing the girl to begin with. That's scarcity mentality.

Like he said, GigaChad who has girls approaching HIM tells them straight up in their first interaction. Because who cares really?

[–]Zech4riah1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes he is, I'm just saying there is a better way to exercise those core principles to achieve better outcomes.

Also the one thing I'm hinting partly is ,I believe, side bar material: "Are we Exclusive: Handling the talk"

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

I was always upfront with my plates. Honesty to the utmost degree, revealing number and names and pictures (if the girls had agreed to it before hand). It worked wonders, I’m not a 10/10.

[–]pacjax23 points24 points  (5 children) | Copy

Agreeing with zech4riah. never tell a girl up front monogamy isnt ur thing unless your leo dicaprio

[–]StraightGangstaHack8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

I just really don't give a shit what girls do. I know they're going to cheat no matter what they say. It doesn't bother me as much as it bothers some people. And it amuses me to blow their minds, tell them my deal, and see what they do. If they're the jealous type, I don't want them anyway. Ever had a girl tell you about the jealous shit she puts her husband through, while you're banging her? I have.

Everyone finds their own groove on this stuff. I don't begrudge any monogamists their thing, it just isn't for me.

[–]thop89-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

You get off on yourself. You are chasing validation with your comments. I can look straight through it.

[–]StraightGangstaHack5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm not worried what people feel about it.

I was that guy before trp that thought it was unimaginable to defy the system of monogamy, even though a) it never seemed quite right for me, and b) girls were always cheating. With me, on me, around me.

It was valuable for me and non-obvious to learn I could just go into relationships and control my destiny on that. But most surprising, I though most girls would call my bluff on that and bail, and it turned out for me it was the opposite. That's insight into female nature I wish I'd had sooner, and I'm putting it out there so other people might.

[–]ratchetvape17 points18 points  (6 children) | Copy

You must have a high smv to do this. Otherwise you should use a more subtle method.

[–]StraightGangstaHack19 points20 points  (5 children) | Copy

Not as high as some. The 10s get chicks just by standing there. They can treat a girl like garbage and it just turns her on more. It's such a thing to behold.

I'm above average but nowhere near that. I'm in shape. That made a huge difference. My career is going great. That helped a lot too. But honestly, it was serendipity: I reached a point where I just didn't give a fuck.

Funny how that changes the result you get. And so I went on not giving a fuck. Why try to play their game and pretend, when I can just be honest? And if they're not happy, who cares. If they really need to lock me down, I'm perfectly happy to end it over that, with good wishes and no regrets.

And to my amazement, no one's made that the deal breaker yet. I'm sure this is luck and SMV too, but don't underestimate the subtle power of really, truly not giving a fuck.

[–]Zech4riah7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy

I'm above average but nowhere near that. I'm in shape. That made a huge difference. My career is going great. That helped a lot too. But honestly, it was serendipity: I reached a point where I just didn't give a fuck.

How can you tell if it helped with being direct about being non-monogamous if your success rate was already 100%?

I haven't yet had a girl walk over it.

A guy who comes here and tells that they have 100% success rate either has way too low n count related to the matter that he could draw conclusions and give advice or they are bullshitting.

I'm not against honesty. I'm being honest but only when confronted by a girl. I have no reason to bring non-monogamy up in advance and in that way I have more time to express my value.

[–]StraightGangstaHack1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

My success rate overall, or with when they try to lock me down and I say no?

Overall, nothing special and nowhere near some of my friends. Which is part of why I bring this up: I'm not some super HVM, and this still works for me.

When they try to lock me down (or when I preempt it)? I expected a majority of women to call my bluff and make my refusal to "go steady" into a deal breaker. I'm at 0% so far. I don't think that means anything other than, I was ready for that to be hard, and it was way easier than expected. If I start talking about how many women I got to that stage with, then I'm definitely going to be feeding the "chasing validation" fan club here, but for sure it's not so high as to prove anything. I think I'm past the "just got lucky" stage and into the "learned something about women" stage.

If I were trying to lock someone down and make her exclusive, I'd have to ask, so waiting until they bring it up is great, I say. I've started bringing it up sooner if I think she's really into me, but I don't think that's required or anything. And they certainly do fuck whoever they want, no matter what they say.

[–]thop89-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

He is just chasing validation with his comments. Ignore it. There is nothing of value to learn from his baseless selfreferential bragging.

[–]HelpMeFindNewGlasses5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

The islands? Where is that

[–]Hotpapi162 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy

Do you straight up tell bitches you’re not into anything serious though? I thought you were not supposed to tell that to plates

[–]DF-RP11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

Depends on your SMV. If you are high SMV, girls are okay getting a shot with you - or even bragging rights of "Hey, I caught Brad Pitt once".

The higher SMV you are, the hotter girls you can pull this off with.

[–]screenmagnet2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think it also depends on your niche. When the kinky, counter-culture type of guy bluntly say this type of stuff, girls perceive him as sexually liberated or “alternative” (i.e., different, cool, interesting). A super straight edge guy needs to have higher SMV to pull it off, because it doesn’t play into his niche.

[–]StraightGangstaHack14 points15 points  (7 children) | Copy

People can sense when you're being really honest, and the truth is powerful. I just tell them the truth. I'm not trying to date a different girl every week. I just think the secret to lasting happiness in relationships is being good for your partner, not trying to keep them from finding anything better. If it's not for them, I totally understand. Wish them the best.

Confidence is sexy. Even the ones who try to fight the frame, can't seem to help finding it alluring that I had the audacity. Only it's not even audacity. I just do not give a fuck.

I think the rule is, tell girls whatever you want to tell them. Find your own path, don't let anyone tell you how to do it.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

You're not using the word "plate" correctly, you're talking about girls who you're dating but not exclusive (there's still a relationship). You wouldn't even bother mentioning this to a real "plate." (It's okay, the ECs even make this vocab mistake, /u/vasiliyzaitzev constantly says how he does favors for his "plates.")

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I am not a stickler for terminology. Girls who I am not exclusive with and who are not exclusive with me are "plates" or "FWBs" or "fuck buddies". AFAIC, they are all the same thing.

Girls who I am not exclusive with but who are exclusive with me are "OLTRs" provided they have been around long enough.

Slave girls are slave girls, although one probably qualifies as an OLTR as well.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I know what you mean, but just speaking strictly in terms of HSPs BMG, lots of people ITS use "plate" when clearly the girl is a FWB (Wouldn't waste time doing favors if she wasn't FWB). It's just something I've noticed, completely pedantic.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I don't have sex with women whose company I do not otherwise enjoy. Maybe it's age, but I have to at least like the girl.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I also enjoy the sound of my own voice and easily available in-jokes.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I get you, fam.

[–]MrAnderzon5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

It’s how you say it.

Obviously don’t call them a plate.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Life lessons. I tell every plate right up front, monogamy is a hard pass for me.

When girls ask me if I am single or not, I say "I keep a rotation" and the conversation keeps right on going. Same as when they ask me "how many?" and I reply, "I'm selective."

[–]_-resonance-_30 points31 points  (10 children) | Copy

Deceit is a beta characteristic due to fear of consequences.

[–]BrandanTech6 points7 points  (9 children) | Copy

Exactly. Cheating is beta just because cheating means you’re too scared to express your feelings because you need validation that you’re not a POS. You need your SO to think of you as a perfect boyfriend.

Lying is seeking validation. Cheating is lying.

[–]EffigyDijjih11 points12 points  (5 children) | Copy

Yeah, honestly, nothing gets a girl wetter than

express your feelings

Quit larping.

[–]theherosmyth1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I don't agree with how Brandan framed his argument. He reminds me of those people who claim that the only reason one could ever buy a nice car is for validation, which displays a vast lack of imagination, or at least empathy. Also I agree "express your feelings" was perhaps not the most effective choice of words.

But what would you say if the argument was that cheating is [enter spicy pejorative here] because you're unwilling to deal with the consequences of being upfront about your desires as a man. It's still treating someone else in a manner that would bother you (I assume but I might be wrong) to get what you want.

[–]EffigyDijjih0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

My first reply would be, "I don't owe her anything. I'm not enslaved by a girl, simply because she gave it up a few times and does little nice things here and there." Further than that, I'd argue the implicit moral debate in "treating someone else in a manner that would bother you.." I'm uninterested in the morality of the decision.

The "treat others like you want to be treated" stick is a moral banter, no matter how you slice it. If I'm, or any man rather, in a "relationship" where they're unsatisfied they are well in their right to do whatever it is they want to do to be satisfied. Just like girls are hardwired to chase the best, guys are hardwired to chase attractive options.

We literally teach each other how to do backflips, cartwheels and the moonwalk to appease a woman's nature but far be it from me to express the intention to operate based off my own nature.

And far be it from a woman to be expected to keep her man satisfied.

[–]theherosmyth2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm not enslaved by a girl, simply because she gave it up a few times and does little nice things here and there.

Right, I agree. If no specific terms have been discussed she is certainly not owed any exclusivity. I was more interested in a situation where you gave her the explicit impression that you are.

If I'm, or any man rather, in a "relationship" where they're unsatisfied they are well in their right to do whatever it is they want to do to be satisfied.

Mhm again I don't disagree with that. The audacity that such women have thinking they can come into a man's life, claim his exclusivity, stop desiring and having sex, and expect him to go along with her decision for the two of them that sex is no longer important is so self centered it makes my blood boil. And I absolutely understand if he'd cheat. Guys don't need to be in an unhappy relationship to want some strange, though.

[–]EffigyDijjih1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Guys don't need to be in an unhappy relationship to want some strange, though.

You're absolutely right, they could be perfectly content with everything in their relationship and still go out and cheat. I'm, nor really anyone else, have nothing to do with their decision. He chooses to do it, and he'll get whatever comes with it.

[–]BrandanTech-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nothing gets a girl wetter than you being too scared to tell her you don’t want to be monogamous lmao


[–]Fulp_Piction0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Lying isn't always seeking validation.

[–]KingOfAllWomen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

you’re too scared to express your feelings because you need validation that you’re not a POS. You need your SO to think of you as a perfect boyfriend.

I think it's scarcity mentality. You're so afraid of losing this girl that you're just conforming to whatever it will take to keep her with you.

That's why I think guys that promise commitment to a girl then fuck around are dirtbags. Not for the fucking around, but for making the commitment in the first place then breaking it.

[–]EffigyDijjih139 points140 points  (35 children) | Copy

My thoughts on it are simple, do whatever it is you wanna do and own the action AND consequences of that action. You don't need anyone's approval, if you want strange go out and get strange. If you want to be that ideal commited husband who's virtues limit him from acting on his primitive nature do that. There's no right way to live the life of your choice aside from doing what it is you want to do being the only exception.

Morality aside, what do you want? What are you willing to do to get that?

Edit; There's few arguements against cheating outside of moral standards being made here, but what I'd like to highlight is what some people have mentioned. It can be very taxing, it can be more trouble than what it's worth. It can fuck up your life in a very significant way. These are all things I'd expect a man to be able to consider for himself, and do what he pleases after the fact. You're your own Captain. Lead your life.

[–]4thAndLong21 points22 points  (8 children) | Copy

Agreed. Act how you want to act and own it. If you want to get some side action on a work trip then do it, but be aware of any consequences that could stem from it. TRP is amoral.

[–]reddituser3030-2 points-1 points  (7 children) | Copy

Are you insane? Cheating is 100% immoral because it impacts your partner negatively if they find out. You shouldn't base all your actions on potential consequences for yourself, you should also consider how it impacts other people. This goes for relationships and life in general. If you want some side, then don't enter a monogamous relationship.

[–]aDrunkenWhaler2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

You know what also impacts your partner negatively? You fucking only one pussy for years. Your frame, testosterone, confidence, creativity, happiness, mood, relationship all suffer.

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy


[–]aDrunkenWhaler1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy


There are other studies made, including how fucking more women increases testosterone. But that's like saying water is wet.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy


[–]aDrunkenWhaler0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Who the fuck cares what their explanation is? There are limits on what evolutionary biologist can say nowadays. Even if they know it they will lie or sugar coat it.

I wrote 'monogamy testosterone' and that's the first thing on google that came up. Plenty of other studies as well, as I already mentioned. Yet you chose to ignore that and focus on proving I'm wrong by proving the article is incomplete.

You could also use your brain and think for yourself, since it is obvious that testosterone spikes when there is competition (multiple sexual partners), and dropws when it is not.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]Nahgloshi50 points51 points  (21 children) | Copy

Disagree 100%, there are better ways to live than others. If you want something else, tell the truth. Nothing subversive. As you said though, don't pretend there won't be consequences for you and your wife/gf.

[–]NWDegenerate61 points62 points  (3 children) | Copy

And if you have kids, I think cheating is abhorrent and can ruin their lives and stability as well. It is incredibly selfish at that point and "do whatever you want and fuck the consequences" is a weak bullshit position to take.

[–]EffigyDijjih9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

"do whatever you want and fuck the consequences"

My thoughts on it are simple, do whatever it is you wanna do and own the action AND consequences of that action.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth.

In any case, if you want to raise good kids and all that jazz, cool. Do that. Like I said before, make the decisions you want to live the life you want. Only thing you should be doing is what you want, and making the decisions that would get you what you want. If that's being a good virtuous leader of man, get that. If it's being a debauchourous, self centered, "abhorrent" person. Cool. Do that.

[–]TheUsualChris1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly. Totally agreed.

[–]uwey2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do whatever you want within your status and money can handle.

A lesser man can have fuck around and have multiple kid and wife, but it generally brought to our attention how hazardous to deal with the nasty situation.

Be more powerful man and the situation will contain itself. Be a unobjectionable force with persuasion. As basic human being lived under 3 premises of Emotional, Characters, and Logic.

Convince others that you have the above three, you are emotionally stable and do not care other’s opinion, your character is strong with enough money, status, and political prowess that belong to certain tribes (elite college, job, trade, owner of something, man with title)

By then, no lesser man will care what you say but care how you get there because they want to go where you are going.

What I see is man fucked up by imbalances in their resume and they did thing their social caste can’t handle, either pussy, politics, or both.

[–]DF-RP4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's cool that you have values. It's cool that you think you are superior to some people because of your "standards".

Similarly some people think it's better way to live without eating meat, drinking alcohol, or having women wear burkhas.

I respectively note that values are all subjective. You might think some lying cheating bastard is a horrible person. However, that person might still be enjoying his life just fine, and would enjoy it a lot less if he lived by your standards. He might also have a lot of people supporting him and his choices. Case in point: Trump (although I have no relation to USA).

Feel free to disagree and not associate with people whose values you don't like. However, this is not the forum to make moral grandstands. Rather discuss the merits or demerits of options.

[–]Nahgloshi-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Morals are relative and vales subjective huh? TRP doesn't mean be a fucking scumbag that thinks anything goes and nothing matters. That nihilistic bullshit is the exact opposite of what this sub stands for.

[–]EffigyDijjih-3 points-2 points  (13 children) | Copy

Right, there are better ways to live the life you want but there is no one solution. The only thing you can do is what you want, and answer for it after the fact. If that's cheating then that's cheating, if it's being monogamous then it's that. If it's somewhere in between then it is what it is, it all matters on the context in which you want to live you're life.

For me, as an example, I want to be the guy that has a main chick and several girls that I can fuck off and on. If my main girl's uncomfortable with it, then it's time for a new main girl. If my plates aren't comfortable with being plates then it's time for new plates. At the end of it all, my top concern is doing what it is I want to do. How it effects them is all relative. I don't see the point in complicating life by telling a girl shit she doesn't wanna know anyways, and if she asks; she asks but I've got no interest in admitting or pleading with her for forgiveness at any point out of nothing more than guilty feelings. Essentially I don't wanna sacrifice my goals to fit her prerogative.

[–]NWDegenerate21 points22 points  (12 children) | Copy

You act like you are enlightened but sound like a self centered prick that actually is too weak to make a hard choice (basically saying do whatever you feel like) and then saying own the consequences but immediately admit that you will lie and conceal, meaning that you are too much of a pussy to actually own it. That doesn't sound like frame. That sounds like weak character.

[–]EffigyDijjih0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy

I am self centered, you're absolutely right. I don't have any reason to lie, though. I just move on to the next, but I won't unnecessarily make more trouble for myself than I need. If I'm caught, I'm caught. Until then, I'm doing whatever I wanna do.

When I say "admitting" to her, I mean that in the context of randomly dropping the bomb of "hey I fucked 6 other chicks in the last two months" out of the blue, and expecting her to pick up the pieces of that. I don't need her to validate me, or to judge my actions.

[–]VisiblePlan6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy

hes a porn addict who thinks by being morally correct God will reward him in the future. Don't engage with him

[–]EffigyDijjih-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy

Morality should stay tf out of this sub, man. All I'm gonna say.

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy


[–]EffigyDijjih0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Morals, just like political views, are subjective and all too opinionated. One's social/religious affiliation can easily become a distraction, or even worse a virtue signal that others bandwagon behind.

I've got no issues with discussing or debating content based off merit, value and overall effectiveness right? But when it boils down to, "You shouldn't do this because this is bad, and it hurts people's feelings." , "Think of the children!" , "I disagree therefore this is beta!" Nonsense, I'm not interested.

Ofcourse everything isn't going to apply to everyone, a religious upstanding citizen isn't going to be all that thrilled talking about how to get anal out of Jennifer popping shots on the club floor. Does that mean we should stop talking about it? Does that make the advice given any less effective? No. At the end of the day a person's morals are their own, we can't base this entire community based off the fractions of people who want to hide the bad in the world.

[–]screenmagnet0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Most people are not capable of deceiving others while still feeling good about themselves. Eventually, this leads to a vicious cycle of shame, poor self-worth, and maladaptive coping mechanisms. This, in turn, severely impedes the process of self-actualization, which is the very essence and ultimate goal of TRP mindset.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy


[–]DF-RP2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

And I doubt most people here equate it with lying by omission.

Everything can have consequences. However, covert contracts are nice guy bullshit. "I've been nice to you all this time, now you owe me pussy" is in the exact same chapter of the book as "Hey we have been hitting the bar and hooking up afterwards 4 times now - that means you can't fuck other girls, but I'm free to jump on a new Chad cock whenever one appears".

If there's no agreement of exclusivity, there's no agreement of exclusivity.

If there is an agreement of exclusivity and you cheat, you only got yourself to blame if it blows in your face. But that's a personal decision. If you think pros outweigh to cons, why not. Women certainly branch swing all the time.

TRP is no place to for moral grandstanding. If you have a non-values based argument, go ahead with it.

I personally hate lying to people, but it clearly has its place. Sun Tzu's the Art of War might as well be called the Art of Deception - for a good reason.

[–]EffigyDijjih-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

No one's saying there's not going to be consequences. Point is, do whatever it is you're going to do just be prepared to face whatever backlash you may face after the fact.

Aside from that people are gonna interpret it in whatever way they want. Call it a lie, call it whatever. It doesn't make it any less of a strategy, and that's the only thing that matters. If it's a strategy, its for whoever's reading it to judge in their mind whether or not if it'll be effective/applicable in their lives.

[–]1bradyo25 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is the only answer. Morality is inconsequential. Just be willing to backup whatever you do.

[–]EffigyDijjih11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly, if you're going to do something do it out of your own accord and be prepared to get the blowback when it comes. It's a shame people around here want to focus on their opinions of what's right and wrong, ignoring what does or doesn't work and project their rules on to everyone else.

What was GLO saying about getting cucked by conservatives, and people trying to steal the narrative?

I'm not here to learn how to be a better beta, I'm here to talk about sexual strategies. Not where I stand in the mortality debate.

[–]Godspeed3111 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

"Morality aside" lol that's hilarious. Morals are all that make us civilized. What's the point of sex if you are bringing children into a world of retrograde savages?

[–]EffigyDijjih0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Is "Think of the children!" TM your only arguement? That's exactly why I make my point. Morality is a subjective opinion. It's not my job to think of your children, it's yours. If your goal's to raise them in whatever manner, that's your decision and your responsibility to ensure.

What's the point of sex if you are bringing children into a world of retrograde savages?

Certainly not the cardinal sin of enjoying the pleasure of getting my dick wet! If I'm smashing with any other intentions than knocking up Barbara, and raising little Stevie to be a good Christian man I'm wrong!

[–]basebool27 points28 points  (5 children) | Copy

Cheating is a horrible thing to do, man or woman. If you want to fuck a lot of women, don't promise them monogamy. Simple as that.

Quite frankly, I'm shocked about seeing posts about men being praised on cheating on their woman. All it shows is that you have to lie to get what you want.

Red pill should be about getting what you want by stoicism, dominance and taking care of yourself first and foremost. Lying and deceiving should not be part of it.

[–]DF-RP2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

Red pill is a tool box. Why is there a necessity of deciding what ideologues are allowed for the guy using the hammer and wrench?

[–]GlowInTheDarkDonkey-3 points-2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Cheating is abhorrent. End of.

It's not a tool. It's not a lifestyle. It's not anything other than fucking wrong on every level for every reason.

Just because I can throw litter on the ground (oh, and be a "bad ass" so the "bitches" will want to fuck me because of my blatant DGAF attitude, or whatever bullshit reasoning wannabe Chad's imagine) does not mean I should.

[–]theherosmyth5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

He didn't say cheating is a lifestyle or a tool box, he said red pill is a tool box. Cheating is an end (or means to an end) that some pursue with this box of tools. I agree we can have a discussion about the "should" aspect in terms of the ends people are pursuing, but there is no point in saying the red pill "should" be about this or that. That's like saying nature "should" be about XYZ. There is no place for it.

Oh and stop sounding so angry, nobody cares and it's the least effective way to get your point across.

[–]DF-RP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you, exactly my point.

Personally I am against cheating - because of self conscience and reputation reasons. However, it's very commonplace and think everyone should properly consider when and why people cheat, and does it make sense. Helps you to be prepared for the inevitable situation where you get cheated on and also helps you to react to situations where there's an opportunity/threat to end up cheating yourself.

[–]DF-RP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You don't want to cheat - that's okay. I don't want and do not cheat either. Easier for me since I don't go exclusive. But at the end of the day, that's a personal decision.

However, in the world there are many people who cheat. I have been cheated on. Most people will be cheated on at some point in their lives. And most people will also cheat themselves.

I think it's just rational to consider why someone would cheat, what are the associated risk/gains and when it makes sense for them to cheat. Helps you to be prepared for being on both sides of the coin. Some people will find cheating to be a valuable tool for them. For example, it's commonplace tool for women to say "please break up with me." Allows them to not take the nasty intiative of having to break up with someone.

[–]DancesWithPugs20 points21 points  (2 children) | Copy

Moral hazard and strictly out of bounds without full agreement. It's betrayal of someone who is supposed to come first, wounding at a deep level.

You can't talk about morals on RedPill! Which I have a problem with. Guys talk about "enjoying the decline" in the process of adding to it. This is juvenile avoidance of responsibility while breaking hearts, lying, emotionally traumatizng. We talk about men and women are different, women are sensitive, then an "RP" believer and his,bros pumps and dumps creating an alpha widow. Instead of easy wife material. All this stuff about sons being raised by single moms, well step up and get involved as a parent or mentor.

Women respect a man who honorably pursues his self interest. They want in, and decent ones help out. A selfish partner will probably turn abusive or neglectful. Women try to guard against it but get seduced by game and bodies.

Since we talk blunty here: Live with honor and don't be a horse's ass with women. The original idea of chivalry wasn't flowers and opening doors. It was the idea that you shouldn't trample a peasant with your warhorse or cut them down just because you have the power.

Responsible use of power is reliable and gives heed to followers needs. This builds trust which is further power.

[–]theherosmyth1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Moral hazard and strictly out of bounds without full agreement. It's betrayal of someone who is supposed to come first, wounding at a deep level.

I come first, not my partner. I'll make sure to be happy within my relationship so I have the bandwidth and desire to make her happy.

But yes, I do agree that promising loyalty and then sleeping around behind her back isn't right. Some people here have a very one sided approach, saying that something "not being right" doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things, and there is no ultimate consequence to getting what you want, even if it means lying, withholding the truth etc. And calling it pathetic or "not a real man" is moralizing.

I do think it's pathetic. But you do you. If I can set up a relationship where I can sleep around, I would honestly like that, but I'd rather be upfront about it. I don't like being exploited and lied to, and if I find out, you have crossed a boundary with me, which will be met with consequences. So I think it's a bit odd to feel that way, but to not respect that sense of fairness in others.

You can't talk about morals on RedPill! Which I have a problem with. Guys talk about "enjoying the decline" in the process of adding to it. This is juvenile avoidance of responsibility while breaking hearts, lying, emotionally traumatizng. We talk about men and women are different, women are sensitive, then an "RP" believer and his,bros pumps and dumps creating an alpha widow. Instead of easy wife material. All this stuff about sons being raised by single moms, well step up and get involved as a parent or mentor.

I do take issue with what you said about pump and dump, because you fault men, but put no onus on women for their end of the bargain. If what I want out of a girl is sex and a good time, with the possibility of her becoming a plate or more than that if she persuades me so, I don't see how that's wrong. It's her job to show me why I should want to be in a relationship with her, not mine. And at a minimum, if she doesn't want to have one night stands or have sex out of a committed relationship, that too is her responsibility. Just put up a hard boundary, then.

If she's fine having sex with me, cool. But don't come at me with covert contracts saying that she slept with me, therefore I owe her XYZ without any of it being discussed. No I don't. It's not my responsibility to go "although you appear to be willing to have no strings attached sex with me, I will not do this, because this frivolous act will decrease your ability to pair bond, and I do not want that for you." Just like it isn't the liquor store clerk's responsibility to not sell me that bottle of whisky because I will damage my liver.

[–]Fulp_Piction1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Liars win if everyone else tells the truth, honesty can at best draw.

Question - who defines honor? Where do you draw your right and wrong from?

You can talk about morals until the cows come home but the point of this page is to be pragmatic, not philosophical. You get the solution to your women problems, it's up to you whether you want to implement them or not.

[–]Jaggarojo65 points66 points  (12 children) | Copy

Cheating, on paper, is bad. Though I'm compelled to think that's a blue pill belief.

Cheating, in practice though, needs a bit more analysis. I believe it happens because the other partner is inept to fulfill the sexual tingles in the cheater. Attraction cannot be negotiated, and even less maintained by trying to fix the relationship. I'm talking about stuff like covert contracts, where the guy washes dishes, does chores, etc., basically anything to "relieve his woman from stress" to expect sex. So often, cheating is a symptom of a bigger problem: that at least one of the two parties (usually the man) is not effectively managing his shit and proving himself to be a HVM.

That's why LTR and married game are so much more difficult. When you exposure with her increases, you're giving her more opportunity to constantly reassess her choice. You're constantly being scrutinized. Those who have never thought of an ejection plan might be too emotionally devastated to even learn anything out of it.

I'd like to internalize the belief that if my partner cheats, it's because I slipped. She wouldn't even consider it if I was applying the appropriate dread/game.

That being said, I'd never take her back if she did. That's a gap in respect I'll never allow her to fill.

[–]EffigyDijjih11 points12 points  (5 children) | Copy

Goddamn, this is insightful.

[–]mywifeson23 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy

Anyone reading this should use this as an example to drop your ego and view your past relationships in a more objective light.

[–]Fulp_Piction1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

This has always been the attitude here, it shouldn't be a surprise. You can't control her directly, but if she cheats or acts out it's your fault. At the end of the day, you're the man - if she doesn't fear you leaving who's fault is that?

[–]EffigyDijjih0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Now where I'm inclined to agree with you, because I really do, but my only caveat is the go plan should be the same as the stay plan. Women should be as replaceable as a pair of tires. Even the mother of your children should be in the line for the chopping block if she doesn't meet the standards you want up kept. Out of context that sounds like a covert contract, but in reality that's literally just what it is. Anyone that's not adding some significant value (by your standards) should be expendable.

(Bless your name, btw)

[–]Fulp_Piction0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

True but it's not about devaluation of people to make them expendable. You should appreciate people for the value they bring you, but know that we're all expendable. Like the buddhist story about the guy's favourite bowl.

[–]EffigyDijjih0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Right, don't take what I said as a suggestion to devalue a person's worth in your life. You can very well appreciate what a person does, has or will bring you while also being open to giving them the boot.

Or you can devalue them, and equate them to nothing more than just some set pieces in your glamorous life story. I can't tell you (or anyone reading this) what to do, I can only present my own thoughts and opinions.

I think many people in the space are taking things too literally, and thinking "this specific piece of advice better apply to me or it's not worth anyone's time and it should be dismissed completely and totally." Or worse, looking at a piece of advice and taking it for its face value rather than actually digesting it and the context behind it.

There's no room for discussion when everyone's sperging out.

[–]Thriving_donkey4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good reminder that you control your life, even if you think (feel) you don't.

[–]theycallmeshooting4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

ty for that last paragraph I thought you were going full cuck mode

[–]DF-RP2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Good take on causes of female cheating. And gratz for not getting into value argument.

How about your views on cheating as a guy?

[–]Jaggarojo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't really hold a general opinion on that, because it doesn't matter. You see a wide range of answers on this thread, none of which are incorrect, from "fuck yes" to "never", and it all comes down to each guy's set of values, experience, and knowledge in TRP content.

This is essentially where the discussion becomes useless.

[–]screenmagnet0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Cheating, in practice though, needs a bit more analysis. I believe it happens because the other partner is inept to fulfill the sexual tingles in the cheater.

It’s a common reason, but people can and do cheat on partners that they are highly attracted to, for various other reasons: resentment, seeking validation, attachment issues, maladaptive coping mechanisms, shame, poor impulse control/judgment in general, etc.

That's why LTR and married game are so much more difficult. When you exposure with her increases, you're giving her more opportunity to constantly reassess her choice. You're constantly being scrutinized.

Very true (and insightful) observation.

Those who have never thought of an ejection plan might be too emotionally devastated to even learn anything out of it.

Not sure I understand what you’re saying here.

I'd like to internalize the belief that if my partner cheats, it's because I slipped. She wouldn't even consider it if I was applying the appropriate dread/game.

How do you know you’re not simply falling prey to the Just World Fallacy, though? There is a natural tendency for people to either over-estimate or under-estimate the role of personal agency in relationships (and life in general), as a psychological coping mechanism (compounded over time by confirmation bias...).

I suspect that TRP (and blue pill, actually!) resonates most with those who are comforted by the idea of personal agency — but such people will of course be tempted to overvalue personal agency (their own and others’) as a causative factor in life outcomes. Whereas people who find comfort in blaming disappointments on external factors out of their control, preferentially identify with black pill & incel ideas.

That being said, I'd never take her back if she did. That's a gap in respect I'll never allow her to fill.

Do you think that (speaking for yourself only) this is coming from a place of pure rationality? Or do you think it is, in part, an emotional response/ego defence?

[–]Jaggarojo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'll address your last 3 bodies.

How do you know you’re not simply falling prey to the Just World Fallacy [...] blaming disappointments on external factors out of their control, preferentially identify with black pill & incel ideas.

I didn't know what the Just World Fallacy was, so I had a look online. It's described as:

"Instances where people want to believe that the world is fair; they will look for ways to explain or rationalize away injustice, often blaming the person in a situation who is actually the victim."

Essentially karma? I don't believe in that. It's more like: I am the common denominator in all my situations. So whether something turns out shitty or not, there's no progress in pointing fingers. It's still my responsibility to get my shit back together.

And there's no way to measure the exact amount of agency. This is a cool concept in theory, but if some bad shit happens, and you're stuck to thinking whether you should take 40% or 60% of the responsibility (wtv that even means), you're delaying the real issue. There comes a point where applying intellectualism to human processes becomes nothing more than mental masturbation.

Do you think that (speaking for yourself only) this is coming from a place of pure rationality? Or do you think it is, in part, an emotional response/ego defence?

What do you think?

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]MrAnderzon6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

This should be top comment because it’s the correct answer to the post.

Cheat or Don’t Cheat. TRP is an amoral toolbox.

[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself27 points28 points  (13 children) | Copy

If you enter a relationship with the agreement of exclusivity, then cheating is a violation of the terms of the contract and grounds for dissolution. That being said, if both parties agree to being open (or one side only), then that's not "cheating". The key point is that both sides agree.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor11 points12 points  (11 children) | Copy

Which leads to the question: is it cheating when the other party is breaking the implied contract of sexual availability? I mean, if the contract is already void can you actually break it? Obviously, I'm not saying this is like the first night your girlfriend has a headache. But if your "wife" of five years hasn't given it up in six months, does she actually comply with her part of the marriage?

Aside for a couple years when I thought I was actually married (whoopsie, big misunderstanding on my part), I have never given exclusivity. Why bother? There is no social advantage of it any more.

[–]DarkestShadeOfRed1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Out of curiosity, how does one misunderstand that they are married? Crazy bitch?

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Check out the King Arthur post in my history for the detail, but the tl;dr is she unilaterally opened up the marriage and hilarity ensued.

[–]DarkestShadeOfRed0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Crazy good read, i'm surprised I didn't come across that one sooner.

[–]DF-RP0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

One party's contract terms violation doesn't typically automatically terminate a contract - although it would often be grounds for withholding from completing your own obligations in part or full.

Would depend on the severity I assume. If both parties start ignoring the contract even though it still exist formally, you could say it is de facto terminated.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy


Key word. In my world that's (almost) everything. So I get it. But this is a contract without actual terms, just stipulations and bans (using the old version of the word). So I get where you are going with this and ultimately I think we see it the same way, but I'd consider it void in principle.

And yes... everything after the "but" is bullshit.

[–]_do_not_read_this_0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

One party's contract terms violation doesn't typically automatically terminate a contract -

Actually, yes it does. It absolutely terminates a contract. That's like first week of law school stuff there.

[–]DF-RP0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Actually, no it doesn't. If you are late on monthly instalment by 1 day, does that terminate the financing contract? If you have renovators over to your house doing a complete makeover, and one of the doorknobs they install is the wrong type, does that terminate the contract?

It depends on the severity of the violation to the content of the whole contract, and often you have to give the other party a chance to fix their mistake.

[–]_do_not_read_this_0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Finance contracts have late payment provisions. Construction contracts, and the law developed for the construction industry, allow for deviations.

Don't confuse your 45 second internet search with my 25+ years of experience working with commercial contracts.

But thanks for playing.

[–]DF-RP0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

If you have 25 years of experience with contracts you'll know of severability of clauses and that violation of a single term in a limited amount does not typically give a right to full and instant termination of a contract.

[–]_do_not_read_this_0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I do know about severability clauses and I know that they're not included in every contract.

But you can be right and have the last word and tell me how that's wrong too.

[–]DF-RP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You are indeed correct that clauses about severability are not in all contracts. You are missing the point though.

Stating a violation of a single term of any contract (as long as there's no specific clause for that violation) is immediate grounds is for complete termination in all cases is downright wrong. Feel free to run to your hole while stuffing your ears if admitting that you are wrong is too big of a task for you.

[–]DF-RP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Refreshing viewpoint. In a similar way, you could say relationships are contracts valid for indefinite term that can be terminated at either party's request. And if either party feels like they want to renegotiate the contract from non-exclusive to exclusive, failed negotiations are reason for them to terminate the contract.

You could also analyse covert contracts (for exclusivity from women's side, or for sexual availability from Nice guy(tm) viewpoint) with similar approach. Misunderstanding of intent and assumed nonverbal contract, with either party flipping out on the "violation", even though there was never intent on other side to have a contract.

[–]3trplurker8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Depends on where the "committed" part starts.
My point of view is that a mans word counts a lot, meaning when a man makes a promise not to screw others women, he should upload the promise he made. If he never made such a promise, then there is zero obligation to upload the non-existent promise.

As far as I know there is exactly one situation where a man may make an unconditional promise not to fuck around on his partner. That situation also requires that partner to make the same promise and there is usually some sort of rings exchanged and words said by some official of an ancient sky god.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy

The answer to this question is implied by the very nature of hypergamy.

The term "hypergamy" actually means that women are inherently monogamous. They are only capable of sustained attraction to one man at once. The only time they can be attracted to more than one man is if they are in the process of losing attraction to one and gaining it to the other.

"Hypergamy" really means that women are monogamous to whatever man they are attracted to the most. Second place isn't even the first loser, he's just one of the losers.

This isn't true of a man. He is attracted to different girls at once, in proportion to how attractive each of them is to him.

Hell, I've had sex with women who are less attractive, less well-behaved, and not as good in bed as FunSize, just because I like a little variety now and again. Eggs are expensive, sperm is cheap. Therefore, women protect their expensive eggs from anyone less than the best they can get, and men give away our cheap sperm on a whim.

What does this mean?

  • You must not let your woman cheat on you. If she does, or even wants to, she's not that into you.
  • If she's just a plate, it might be okay that she's not that into you. That's up to you.
  • If you agree not to cheat on a woman, you are doing to appease her, not for your reasons. Consider carefully whether you want to let a woman have that much control over you.
  • If you have no agreement or expectation not to cheat on a woman, and you find yourself not doing so, then it might just be because her competition can't stack up to her.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"Hypergamy" really means that women are monogamous to whatever man they are attracted to the most. Second place isn't even the first loser, he's just one of the losers.

I'm honestly convinced that understanding this should be the litmus test of TRP, so many "all girls cheat" posts here, everyday.

[–]SeasonedRP7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

For those who are inexperienced and get confused by threads like these, I'll point out a couple of things that rarely happen in real life but that seemingly happen all the time on the internet: (1) a formal conversation where one solemnly and expressly promises his LTR that he'll be faithful to her until the day he dies, and (2) a decent quality woman getting into an LTR and expressly agreeing, after full disclosure, that the man can see other women whenever he wants, but that she'll remain faithful to him.

In real life, these kinds of things are nearly always implied from behavior, and thus it isn't always possible to make bright line moral judgments. The tradcon-type responses to this post are an example of trying to apply male logic when dealing with women, which doesn't work.

[–]throwaway6976476 points77 points  (7 children) | Copy

Cheating is fucking gay. If you decide to be exclusive with a girl, at least stick to it.

[–]odaklanan_insan5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

I hope mods have a plan to clear the trolls outta this sub.

[–]EffigyDijjih3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just because someone has a differing opinion than you doesn't chalk them up to a Troll. That's just a shaming tactic you're trying to use to discredit something you don't agree with.

[–]yagoyas-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy


I think trolls control this sub

[–]DF-RP2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

"Man should stick to his word" is a values based argument, which goes to same category with "women need to wear burkhas".

I would love for you to include actual arguments for why.

[–]theherosmyth4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

There is no ultimate argument for or against it. Though I would like to point out that women wearing burkas is something that is forced upon them, whereas you're not forced to act like you want a committed relationship to then cheat. You can very well be upfront about your desire to sleep with others and find someone who accepts that.

So I think it's a question of reciprocity. Do you not care to treat others how you'd like to be treated (maybe because you don't care or you don't think it matters)? Or do you not care how you're treated, therefore you don't care how you treat others?

[–]DF-RP0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You are absolutely right that no one forces anyone to cheat. Yet it's very widespread phenomenon in the society by all accounts, so I think it merits a closer look at why or when it makes sense.

Reciprocity is a good point. However declaring that you will not cheat and expect same from your partner will not prevent them from actually cheating on you. Any statistics on cheating in marriage will show that it actually still happens quite often. Because of this, I don't really buy the argument of "do good to others and they will do good to you" - many people will take what you give and never give anything back. Fundamentally, I think humans are very opportunistic in that sense.

I think there's a much better argument built around reputation. Like the famous quotes go - it takes years to build a reputation and seconds to tear it down. While cheating is commonplace, it's perceived as being morally wrong - although somewhat accepted on high SMV levels (no one seems to raise an eyebrow when a rockstar fucks 100 fangirls). Very valid argument can be made that cheating has high risk of fucking your reputation which can have very big consequences, among others that people won't trust you anymore (in love or other areas).

[–]theherosmyth0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, reciprocity was a bad word to use on my part. There is indeed no guarantee she won't cheat if you don't. What I meant to explore was if it would bother one to be cheated on, and if so, is it then not hypocritical to do the same.

If your options are to stay single and fuck whoever you want, find a relationship that is open (for you), or enter an exclusive relationship to then cheat, why go for the latter if you know you want to fuck around.

I was wondering about how one reconciles that.

Indeed loss of reputation is also something to consider.

[–]guynpdx9 points10 points  (13 children) | Copy

Cheating, just like lying, is a position of weakness. Always.

[–]BrandanTech3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Cheating is lying. Lying is validation seeking.

Why would anyone lie about their salary? Or what car they drive? Or where they buy their clothes?

Because they need validation that they are better than they think they are. They need to be better than they see themselves. They care what this other person thinks so much that they’re willing to hide who they really are.

[–]DF-RP3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Sun Tzu disagrees.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good one and very true. Winning wars is entirely about cheating.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy


[–]EffigyDijjih1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Because his morals don't agree with it, and if his personal beliefs are shaken then it's not alfalfa and anyone with a differing opinion is Billy Beta.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

his morals

Perhaps but that's not a convincing assertion.

[–]guynpdx-2 points-1 points  (6 children) | Copy

A man who isn't afraid of the consequences doesn't need to lie. On the other hand, a liar is afraid of "getting in trouble".

Real men CAN'T get in trouble.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Unfortunately, politics are real. While a man can steer himself away from it as much as possible, he's probably running from opportunities too.

[–]aDrunkenWhaler0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Oh, so you never lie to your boss, HR, ltr, children, mom, friends, co-worker, dog etc on a daily basis?

"-How do you like working for us, guynpdx? -It's fucking lame and I only do it for the money. All you assholes are fucking stupid, especially the ceo with his overthetop speeches. And half of the girls are sluts, especially you, susan. I know you've fucked Tom and Brian and now you're fucking Bob."

[–]guynpdx0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I never said I didn't lie. But that's irrelevant. Dishonesty comes from a position of weakness.

[–]aDrunkenWhaler0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Life is not always black and white.

[–]Proto_Sigma6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

Part of the reason why cheating and lying are considered no morally heinous and why traitors are consigned to the lowest level of hell in many mythologies is that more than anything else, such activity threatens the foundation of society- trust. When you go to the doctors office, despite knowing little about medicine, you trust that the doc knows what he’s doing. When you buy something with a credit card the seller trusts that the company will pay him and the company trusts you will pay them. If we cannot trust one another than the relationships our civilization relies on would fall apart completely.

Of course, a key part of being Red Pilled is knowing that despite the damage it does many people will lie and cheat in order to get some short term benefit. Case in point, branch swinging, trickle truth, “it just happened.” Switching to a framework of “trust but verify”, where the possibility that you are being lied to or manipulated is always considered until proven otherwise is vital to escaping the blue pull trap. Also, understanding the interests of the other party and whether or not they align with holding their agreement rather than trusting their good nature is a skill you must develop, which is why we spend so much time dissecting female nature. Your best defense against being cheated on is being too high value to lose and being willing to walk if cheated on- you really have nothing else.

Knowing that deceit is destructive and possibly profitable in the short term, the question becomes should you do it. My answer would be no- there are no circumstances where it should be necessary for you to cheat in the first place. Aside from wanting not to contribute to the destruction of the social fabric, I’m aware that if I’m caught behaving dishonestly any vaguely rational party will penalize me, often quite severely. You should never be in a committed relationship with a known cheater, and that advice goes both ways- keeping your sexual history on the down low is textbook red pill but word gets around and any woman with half a brain would know to steer clear of you. Maybe you’re just so alpha that tingles overwhelm rational thought, but if you value having a long term partner with some sense this is a bad strategy.

Furthermore, you don’t have to give away your exclusivity in the first place. You don’t owe a woman anything until you say “okay, we’re exclusive.” If you aren’t comfortable with that under any terms, you don’t have to agree. If you do agree but the other party isn’t keeping their side of the agreement, break up- you don’t have to stay. If you’re married... well you’re in deep shit, which is why you should never do it, but cheating just makes it more likely that you’ll get double penetrated in your divorce rape as the at fault party.

TL;DR If you’re playing your cards right you should never have to cheat in the first place, leave a girl if you aren’t getting what you want and find another one, deception is a poor long term strategy because everyone who catches on will never deal with you again.

[–]DF-RP4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Applaud, extremely well thought out answer. And thank you for separating the "for me" part and giving proper argument for it.

Under my circumstances, I would 100% agree with this analysis. Cheating can mess your life up in many ways. Lose your girl, reputation, friends, job, even go to jail or get violently attacked. The risks are extremely high and reward is usually very low.

This begs the question of why do so many people cheat? Poor impulse control is certainly one good explanation. Overconfidence in not getting caught is another. I can also see the argument for branch swinging, also for guys. I find that women are in reality, monogamous in nature (see whispers post) where they are only attracted to a single person at a time. You could construct an argument for significant upgrade by hooking a girl with your cheating, and then breaking the old relationship. However, you should be able to do that without cheating as well - so I would say it's uneccessary risk.

Overall, I agree that you should try to play your cards in a manner that means you never need to cheat. That's simply smart risk minimizing.

I do find though, that for some people, their value is so high off the charts that no one seems to give a crap if they cheat. Think of rockstars, Di Caprio, etc. If you reach such status, the equation starts to change.

[–]ThrowawayYAYAY20020 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Fantastic and very insightful post. Well done!

[–]3chazthundergut2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You cant cheat on someone you aren't exclusive with

[–]abangizhar3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

What cheating? i want a wife, an adultery partner and a personal "fucktoy". It's called soft harem.

[–]Nighthawk_Black_10 points11 points  (15 children) | Copy

If you're going to cheat don't be fucking stupid don't get caught. Fuck an escort and then go home don't be fucking your girlfriends best friend that's how things get messy.

[–]FtGFA-3 points-2 points  (14 children) | Copy

I think you would have to be a real pos to be fucking sex workers and then your gf/wife. That is fucked up.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

You are assuming he fucks his wife.

And as long as they insist on protection, they tend to be less of a risk than non professionals. Years of data on NV brothels have proven this. So it's an application of risk. If you balance the risk of a wife finding out, the risk of catching something and the risk of the entanglements of an affair, a guy in this situation might find hookers more appealing. That or jerk off. Or what should have happened in the first place--leave the war pig wife.

[–]Nighthawk_Black_1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy

Would you prefer if they weren't sex workers?

[–]FtGFA1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

It's a start. I mean I don't condone cheating but to go out of your way to fuck the dirtiest people possible is stupid. For yourself and unsuspecting partners.

[–]Nighthawk_Black_8 points9 points  (6 children) | Copy

I would say some sex workers are cleaner than most non sex workers.

[–]FtGFA0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I mean is there a study on this or is this your opinion? Because only one matters here.

[–]Nighthawk_Black_2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

How do you know you are right?

[–]FtGFA1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Simple their is actual studies on STD rates on sex workers. You can easily look it up. Now I was just wondering if your opinion was just pulled from thin air or you have some resources I can look up. I know some studies have shown lower rates in decriminalized areas then non for sex work etc... but still you're playing russian roulette. Suit yourself.

[–]Nighthawk_Black_2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I never said my opinion was fact i'm just going by personal experience.

[–]mywifeson0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Someone who sells their body for sex probably isn’t as clean as you’d like them to be.

To my understanding, there’s levels to it depending on the tier of “sex worker” you come across, but I would never advocate for it as I don’t need to pay for sex.

If you have the urge to give into the sins of flesh, look for people outside immediate friend groups, and mutual friends. (Ex: someone NOT in your city.)

Just my two cents.

[–]Nighthawk_Black_2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just don't be getting roadside hookers

[–]ThrowawayYAYAY20020 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy


The guy is paying for sex, therefore their is zero emotion/romance from both parties.

It's not like he has spent weeks and months courting this woman, living a double life.

He wants to cheat but not hurt anyone, she wants his money, he is willing to spend, she is willing to walk away once paid.

Everybody wins.

[–]FtGFA0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

The risk of disease is enough. Even with protection you can catch nasty shit. You want to take the risk go ahead but to involve others is wrong. Doesn't matter how you try to rationalize it to yourself.

[–]ThrowawayYAYAY20021 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

You say that like every non-working girl is clean.

[–]FtGFA1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Life is about probabilities. Don't take bad bets.

[–]ThrowawayYAYAY20024 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

All of the above.

I'd like to think that it's "out of bounds" (because I don't do it)... But I have done it before.

Did I feel good about it? For a minute - then the guilt sank in.

Leaving someone can be fucking hard.

And even though they have overstepped your boundaries, and you know that you need to call it a day with them, it can be very hard to do. As weak as it sounds, that's why I've cheated before. That was my way of "getting even" with her.

Haven't cheated on my current GF. But if I've been hurt by her, and I struggle to leave, I don't know what will happen.

Fresh pussy/New women mean nothing to me. So it's not like I've done it for that reason. It's just the quickest way to get my revenge.

Also depends on what your relationship with your woman is like.

Been together 10 years, got kids with her, and live together? Yeah, there's been cheating from one of you, no doubt. But it's hard to walk away.

I think in this day and age, especially, it will happen.

Is it wrong? Yes. But there's too much temptation now, so the odds aren't in your favour, unfortunately.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]DF-RP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I would say you are significantly underestimating the level of SMV you need to prevent cheating. Women are connected to 100s of guys on social media on a level where they know the person, and get fleeting connections with thousands more. Even day to day live they interact with probably 50+ males. That's your competition.

[–]Gnosiis_5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Inevitable moral hazard. Hazard being a very good word to describe it because it means "risk" or "chance". It means that measures must be taken in order to REDUCE the risk. Women have more options and are more likely to cheat especially when they have security already. There's also the risk of her cheating for no other reason than her having a momentary lapse in judgment or running into a guy at the right place at the right time, even if she is still attracted to her man. Then there's the societal aspect created by sexually liberated feminists where they feel no pressure to remain loyal and exploit their youth without consequence. Let's not forget that a cheating woman may likely be unattracted to her man to cheat in the first place which opens up a big can of worms. Long list isn't it? Let me know the three or four aspects I forgot lol.

For a woman there is less risk. The biggest risk is that her man gets another woman pregnant or leaves her for another woman, then herresource acquisition strategy and security could be compromised. That risk is mitigated, if not eliminated, by her man being high value and/or having a lot of resources at his disposal. In fact for a lot of men it could INCREASE his value or even cause an unattracted LTR to regain some tingles.

In summary, cheating is a far greater hazard for men but could be a tool for high value men. I'm not going to speak about the moral side to this because that is subjective. However, practically, it is a huge issue that men have to contend with. It is also the reason why you should be sloooow to commit.

[–]throwawaycunt19970 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Funny how that works. I have both repaired and killed the same ex LTR via cheating. In hindsight, I handled it differently each time, but I guess at the end I wanted to be single ‘cause ole boy got tired of getting nagged how to spend his money.

[–]mywifeson3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

I’m happy to see the discussion here.

In the past, a lot of Anger Phase NOOBS would be advocating infidelity because to them, sex determined their own value as a man; thus setting the example for others who stumble upon our small community, leading them to go and screech about it to the Reddit hive mind for upvotes.

Going off on a tangent, but I’m glad we have people who have actually internalized the red pill and are discussing it, instead of Alpha Roleplayers who don’t understand what that behavior they are trying to mimic, truly is.

Edit: We need more threads like this, I stepped away from TRP (community) for a LONG time because I had already internalized it, and couldn’t stand the circle jerking of anger phase NOOBS.

[–]EffigyDijjih3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I do agree, it's a phenomenal thing. Actually discussing, disagreeing and just overall debating these controversial concepts is as useful as useful gets. It hardens in a person's mind their own values, or changes them for a better ruleset to live by.

I don't think it's as simple as, "You should do this, because of that". It should be do what's best for you in the context of what you want out of life. I definitely don't agree with morality being a defining role in our community, though. People's morals are always going to differ, what matters is what is effective. It's too easy to bandwagon behind the morality of something, and we'll get wrapped up in "oh this makes me feel that way, this makes my kids feel this way." What matters is what works.

[–]trollreign7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Goddamn it, this comment section is a cesspit of deep blue pill bullshit.

The reason your feelz tell you that cheating is bad is that you are terrified that the unicorn you are still looking for will be cheating on you.

You still think that setting up rules for yourself about being honest in your LTR will somehow protect you from hypergamy and that this rule will magically apply to the women you date as well. I’m gonna spoil that for you: it won’t apply to her, and there’s nothing you can do about it. It’s out of your control.

If you don’t have kids, it’s really simple. If you think that the best thing for you is cheating, then cheat. A commitment you made in the past is not bounding, you can change your mind at any time. Women reserve that right even if you don’t.

[–]EffigyDijjih1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ay you better respect women, and you better be faithful or else your dirty morals will leave you bitter and sad. Now get back to washing dishes, you big strong alpha man.


[–]Endorsed ContributorSKRedPill1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think most people cheat only because they can't sink a bad relationship honestly or can't honestly deal with their polygamous / hypergamous natures. Seriously why cheat if your SMV is high enough you can be brazenly honest and you have the power to attract almost anyone and walk away? In patriarchal societies men are openly polygamous.

I've seen a lot of murder cases on shows like Forensic Files back in the day. And one thing I never get in most of the cases is "Gee, if their relationship was so bad, why not just call it off instead of going all the way to murder and prison?" And don't think it was always the woman who got murdered.

Cheaters just want one foot over there where there's fun and one foot here too where there's comfort. But you'll get fucked by the courts when you're caught amongst other things. In my country, a lot still depends on your reputation. You can't afford to lose that.

Ultimately the sex instinct has no concept of morality, but I believe all humans have a need for trust as well and these 2 needs can conflict with each other causing a lot of cognitive dissonance.

Besides I don't tolerate being cheated on, though it is a reality that I must be ready for. It rips a hole in you as your need for trust is even more important than your need for sex -- you will know this if your partner cheats on you. Can't blame that Marine who shot himself when he found out the hard way.

Plus in the long scale, this destroys trust and loyalty between men, men and women, families, parents and children, and societies. Trust is a masculine quality and vital for survival of a tribe in the past, and civilization as such. Without it, even your money doesn't work. I mean a level of professional trust is vital for any society or organization or military to succeed.

In societies on the rise, trust is a value. In declining societies, trust is a liability.

[–]El_Serpiente_Roja1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Its risky and should only be done if you can get away with it 100%. Most guys are way too stupid to pull it off without getting caught so better to not even and just dump the chick if you're so bored of her.

[–]1Fyn6891 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Patrice O'Neill was king in these subjects to me. He thought, and I agree, that honesty was the way of a righteous man, and if you went monogamous you should stick to it, and if you wanted to fuck other women you should propose an open relationship or threesomes, which can be troublesome if you don't know how to manage them.

However, when a woman is effectively pimping the man in a relationship as he called it, he didn't give that LTR as a lost cause, he did not condone but understood that getting some side pussy could be beneficial for the man to get the reins back, to get his confidence up, to get some fish smell on him haha as he also called it, which is basically that attitude a man has when he has more pussy available that turns him attractive because women SOMEHOW know that to be the case.

He also talked about the possible consequences which could be devastating for a man's life. He talked about being smart, don't tell anybody about your cheating, not even close friends. Clear all traces effectively, set rules for the new girl, DONT get a crazy bitch, DONT get into an affair. You need a plate, that's all. Get your fun and your fish smell and get out, get your life back and stop fucking around.

[–]DerekMorganBAU1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ain't nuthin wrong with it. I've cheated on everyone and one of my exes that I cheated on begged for me back.

It works for me to cheat so I do it. I've never suffered any "consequences."

[–]SalporinRP1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I fooled around a few times in my last relationship when she was acting up. I wasn't proud of myself and I don't think I'll do it again just because the stress of needing to hide it/trying to sneak around just isn't worth it.

Since then I've just been keeping plates but if I got into another LTR I would probably not cheat for MY personal morals and mental wellbeing.

If other guys want to cheat then that's fine.

[–]VisiblePlan1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Most men who extol the virtues of monogamy and staying faithful to their one and only have never had beautiful women in the throes of passion. It becomes intoxicating. That being said, to avoid any societal damage my cheating might cause me, I simply never enter into an 'exclusive' relationship. Some women think they might be exclusive with me, but I never told them we were or made any hint of that clear to them. Most men who claim monogamy is the way to go have never had sex before.

[–]mortalcoil13 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

That's some bullshit. Maybe some men enjoy women for more than a masterbation aid. Maybe some men don't think sex is the end all be all of everything. Maybe some men don't like wearing condoms all the time, and if you are raw dogging random women that you are not in an exclusive relationship with then you are stupid.

If you want to slam a bunch of women, then great, more power to you, but don't live in a false reality where every man wants to slam a bunch of women.

Would basically every man like carefree sex with no responsibility complications, or issues? Yes, does that exist? NO!

[–]VisiblePlan3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

There is alot to unpack in your comment. For one thing, the abundance of straw-man arguments, lets start with that. At no point did I ever say I considered women a masturbation aid. If anything I am probably rather tame compared to other users on this sub. Women can offer alot of interesting things to you life beyond sex. But if you are timid and tame or fold too quickly into an LTR, those things are less likely to happen. You should not be easily won by any woman. You are a prize that requires effort. I agree on raw-dogging. Don't handicap your future because of your lust. Secondly, you contradict yourself. You said don't live in a false reality where all men want to slam a bunch of women, and yet your next sentence is how basically every man would like carefree sex with no responsibility, complications, or issues. The second part is true. But we have a societal pressure to settle down, which is what I was referring too when I said I avoid cheating by not entering into exclusive relationships.

[–]mortalcoil13 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

I did not contradict myself. I said that basically all men would like care free sex with no responsibility complications or issues, but that does not exist, peroid.

So, in real life, men choose to not have sex with a bunch of different women because they want a relationship with a woman more than the grind of gaming women, the fear of STD's or pregnancy with some random woman, and all the other responsibilities, complications, and issues that arise with sleeping with women.

I would like a lot of things, that doesn't mean I want and would strive for them, especially things that don't even exist.

I want to make money, but if I could snap my fingers and a million dollars would rain down from the ceiling, I would like that. I don't want to strive for the ability to snap my fingers and a million dollars rain down from the ceiling because I know that it is impossible.

Do you understand the distinction between things that people would like to happen but are impossible (daydreaming and wishing) vs things that people want and strive towards?

As for straw-men arguments, they are not.

I know you did not say that. That is obvious, but what you are saying is that women to you, are useful to you for sex. If you just want to play a woman to pump and dump, that is your choice, and that's cool, but that makes that woman your masturbation aid, and you do you, but don't be saying ridiculous shit like monogomous men are virgins.

I don't care how many women you have slept with and if that is more or less than who I or anybody else has slept with. It means nothing to me. I also don't care if you want to use women to get your rocks off, and you are using women, whether you wish to believe it or not.

"Some women think they might be exclusive with me, but I never told them we were or made any hint of that clear to them."

This is bullshit. Either they think they are exclusive or they don't. You don't get it both ways. If they think they are in an exclusive relationship with you then your actions led them to believe that.

You can hem and haw, but clearly, from what you typed, you are playing women and can't keep yourself from sleeping with other women, and more power to you, but don't pretend like your way is the only way and everybody else is a virgin.

I just want to reiterate, this isn't about you sleeping with women, or even playing women, this is about this bullshit, "Most men who claim monogamy is the way to go have never had sex before."

[–]DF-RP1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is bullshit. Either they think they are exclusive or they don't. You don't get it both ways. If they think they are in an exclusive relationship with you then your actions led them to believe that.

Absolutely incorrect. People misread situations and intents of others, all the time. That's the entire reason for "nice guys" existence. Covert contracts. Just cause you "assume" someone else meant something, doesn't mean they are at fault when you were wrong.

[–]HelpMeFindNewGlasses0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Immoral. Anything moralizing it to be is rationalization at its finest.

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K180 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Why invite shit into your life by cheating?

To me, it invites too much bullshit.

Sure, there are different scenarios and life situations but if you're a together, non-attached guy then go into dating being open about it.

If you're lying about seeing other girls, then to me it just fucks game up. You have to lie more, hide what you do, pretend, and I don't see how that truly aligns with the usual RP strategies.

Be high value, fuck a few girls, don't pretend you don't. Let them decide to stay or go. Allow them to fight for commitment and so forth.

[–]horaxical0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Just be sensible, don't get caught. The thing that would get you caught mostly is your mobile

[–]logitech7570 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

it is never worth the pain

[–]8380atgmaildotcom0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Read /u/whisper Hypergamy is Monogamy post.

[–]Irtotallynotrobot0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is a question of principle. You have to set moral boundaries you believe in and hold them. It's a good question to ask but really the only answer for that one comes from you.

[–]KingOfAllWomen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Cheating is bluepill. Don't tell a woman you commit to her unless.. ya know.. you mean it!

If you don't mean it - don't say it. If you HAVE to say it to get laid, well, you still got some improving to do.

I would say the model man has enough control of his life and confidence to tell someone simply and honestly what their intentions are when it comes to relationships.

[–]ReUptheReUp0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is a no brainer. Even open relationships can turn sour, despite all the game one has. Deffo a no-no. If your shit's on lock, she'd be too busy being lost in you to worry about fucking anyone else. If you're really wanting your relationship to work, without BS, then cheating on her isn't productive either. And if you feel the urge to, then a LTR isn't for you, and you need to learn, and internalise, what it is that makes you successful with women, sleep with the kind of women you've always wanted to, then maybe give an LTR another go.

[–]UnbreakableFrame0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lots moralizing going on here. I think it's much simpler than that.

If you have to lie to people in order to lead the life that you want, you are weak. This will be reflected in every aspect of your life, not just your relationships.

[–]epicgangforcemanga0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I got cheated on before taking the red pill. I dumped her and took time to reflect and it helped me become red pilled. If you get cheated on it’s because you weren’t fulfilling her and it may not even be your fault (perhaps she wasn’t letting you know her needs). The way I see it is any time you’re cheated on, you’re being extremely disrespected and as a man you cannot stand that. You at least have to take a break and reflect before deciding to let her back into your world.

[–]RStonePT0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Make it interesting.

You have a wife and 3 kids, all teens at 4 years away from moving out of the house and going to college.

Wife sleeps with a friend from soccer practice and you find out from buddies wife and nor your wife.

I'd love to see the bravado on this moral quandry

[–]RStonePT0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A lot of objective morality floating around these parts.

I wonder how red pilled guys are when they are still getting mad for the world working the way it works

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy


[–]EffigyDijjih1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Sounds like you're pedalizing women still, and have unrealistic expectations/feelings towards them. You keep thinking that way, and you'll develop covert contracts with whoever you find yourself with, and go nuclear when they stray away from these ideals you have in your head.

[–]fatdonkay337-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

My motto in college and the advice I gave to my fraternity brothers was that you can use women, just don't lie to them. Cheating is lying. I've never cheated in my life, however I have slept around, talked to multiple girls at a time, Gotten dinners, rides, and favors of them. But when the inevitable "what are we" conversation came about, I was never misleading. If you have to lie to have plates or be talking to multiple women at a time, your game is not strong enough to be doing so.

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[–]Neuromantic85-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Depends. Are you polyamerous and not realizing it? Or are you going against your nature and trying to find out?

To weigh or not to way?

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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