659,329 posts

About to file for divorce

by Onein1024th | April 16, 2020 | askMRP

21 upvotes

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Okay guys. I've dabbled in MRP and worked my butt off to get in the best shape of my life. I dress well. I groom well, though my hair is getting long with the coronavirus going on.

I'm a good Dad to our 4 and 1 year olds.

But I'm over having a cold distant wife. I feel more alone with her than I do alone. We fight more than anything else. We fuck once or twice a week but she's a dead fish. We've lost all passion despite my efforts. We started a marriage counseling video series at her behest; which I'm about to cancel because she always has an excuse to not do it.

So here's my deal with myself. I'm going to make one last month of all out effort at the advice of this subreddit.

About me: 6ft, 175lbs. I've been doing calisthenics since the coronavirus but I'm above my body weight on all the big lifts (edit: well above, but I haven't been measuring 1rm for a long time). We just went on vacation and I was one of the best looking guys at the resort. It felt good to get all that attention from others. On my last few business trips I wound up in another woman's bed that I had just met. Blocked by ASD but fooled around quite a bit. And the other trip I would have scored had she not had her fat cockblock friend urging her to not join me for dancing. I fix shit around the house, do dishes, run errands, and am good with the kids.

I am now CEO of a company with 20 employees. This company is going through growing pains, especially now with the virus, but I have made good headway. Q4 was our best quarter since I joined. I am a humble, open, honest leader with a firm hand on the wheel and no problem enforcing boundaries.

I have read WISNIFG, The rational male, models, bang, day bang, the way of the superior male, and countless TRP and MRP content

Edit: also NMMNG, the art of seduction, the laws of power, how to win friends and influence people

Working on MMSLP and Sex God Method

Where I struggle is sleep. I don't do good job of letting go of stress and peacefully climbing into bed with someone I don't like.

About her: stubborn and serious with very high standards for herself and others. Jacktenofhearts had some great writings on dealing with this type of woman but I've struggled to understand what he was saying, I wish he were here to ask. Basically it was, withdraw attention and affection from this woman. Other than trying to fuck her, I don't give her much at all outside of normal husband shit: hug her when she cries, make sure my family is safe, make plans for parenting. I was her first because nobody else was good enough. Somehow the luster is lost and I'm not good enough for her now. She's very critical of me, of herself, and worst of all... Of the children. In these cases I've had to step in and tell her it is unacceptable and I refuse to let her speak to my kids that way.

As you can imagine things were different when we were dating

She will not give up captainship to me for anything. She's clinging onto the tiller for dear life as I'm steering us towards a future that we agreed upon years ago. She is convinced the business will fails. She is convinced I will squander and lose my ample nest egg.

I'm over it.

So... What am I missing???


Post Information
Title About to file for divorce
Author Onein1024th
Upvotes 21
Comments 157
Date 16 April 2020 08:25 PM UTC (2 months ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/653949
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/g2mvgs/about_to_file_for_divorce/
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Comments

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"38 points39 points  (7 children) | Copy

You made all these changes for mommy and mommy still won't give you more dessert.

[–]z2a1-96 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lol

[–]Onein1024th[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

Well, no. But I'm getting damned sick of the coldness

[–]Tyred_Biggums7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Dancing Monkey

Take a read of this post. It's you. You did ALL these things to get a reaction from your wife... still have not internalized that you are the prize and her actions are inconsequential.

Start posting in OYS weekly. What is your vision for YOU?

I am now CEO of a company with 20 employees. This company is going through growing pains, especially now with the virus, but I have made good headway. Q4 was our best quarter since I joined. I am a humble, open, honest leader with a firm hand on the wheel and no problem enforcing boundaries.

This means jack shit. It's like saying "I make a lot of money, why won't she fuck me?".

Completely a covert contract on your part.

At best it's a "check" in the "don't be unattractive" bucket. But it doesn't add to being attractive.

It felt good to get all that attention from others

This is the crux isn't it? You need that sweet validation from others to prove you're good enough. That's what you're missing - you're still not the prize, still not your own judge, and still feel shitty about yourself deep down. This is what a weekly OYS will help YOU unravel.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you. I will make OYS a part of my weekly schedule.

You're right, I definitely feel down when I get the cold shoulder from her

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

You should be roasting - you've spent the last four years dancing like a monkey.

[–]RStonePT0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

If you were you'd do something about it. I don't know who told you it was raining but I know rain ain't yellow

[–]hack3geRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It’s funny how simple the solution is - something either is acceptable or it isn’t.

Most men can’t handle the real answer to the question - what am I willing to do to get the life I want?

[–]coachdad813 points14 points  (45 children) | Copy

Let me give you the only advice you need. Go ahead and disregard all the nonsense you've received so far. Most of these guys dishing out advice are either divorced, about to be divorced, or have terrible marriages and are angry and spinning plates because they took their own bad advice. Take a few minutes and read through this week's OYS and you'll see just how much good "internalization" of the sidebar did for these fellas.

After 61 comments, not one of these RP Life Guru's seemed to mention your Mission. I guess they haven't read the sidebar. No matter, I have read the sidebar and even better I have applied it to my life. Lucky for you, I know what you are missing and why you (and your wife) are frustrated - because you don't have a Mission.

Don't take my word for it, you wrote it yourself:

I feel more alone with her than I do alone.

Because you don't have a purpose that drives you and gives you fulfillment.

We fight more than anything else.

Because you don't have a Mission that unites you, excites you, and brings you together for a common goal. The mission is the bond.

We just went on vacation and I was one of the best looking guys at the resort. It felt good to get all that attention from others.

Bingo. Don't have a Mission. A man without a Mission loves and needs attention from other men and women.

On my last few business trips I wound up in another woman's bed that I had just met.

Looking for fulfillment. Looking to fill that void with a woman. It won't work my friend. But wait...

I am now CEO of a company with 20 employees.

Won't fill the void either. Add another 50 employees, grow to 100+ Million in revenue. Land on the Inc 500 list. Still a void.

Other than trying to fuck her, I don't give her much at all outside of normal husband shit: hug her when she cries, make sure my family is safe, make plans for parenting.

So you treat her like crap and wonder why she is angry at you? "But she did it first," you might say. And yet you are supposed to be the leader setting the tone for the family. Your statement above sums up exactly why she feelz like her selfish husband isn't worth following.

She's clinging onto the tiller for dear life as I'm steering us towards a future that we agreed upon years ago.

She feelz the lack of higher purpose in your life. She can smell it and taste it and it disgusts her. She's a high SMV woman who wants her Husband to lead his wife somewhere valuable. She wants to join her husband on a Mission.

I'm about to change your life forever.

You are financially successful, good looking, intelligent, and have been blessed with many talents. But you are squandering them. Your life is a waste. You are misusing your time out of selfish, misled desires. You are the center of your world and look where it landed you. All those gifts you've been blessed with, all that success, but are you happy? Nope. Your life is so bad that you posted a comment to strangers on a subreddit asking for life advice. You, like most other men, are down in the weeds of life. You chased after all the things the world told you would make you happy - women, check, growing business, check, money, check, good looks, check. What the world failed to mention was that none of it will make you happy. But you already learned that the hard way.

You. Need. A. Mission.

Your business, your family, traveling, life experiences, your marriage, your kids and making money are all examples of things that cannot be your Mission. Why? Because your Mission must be big enough you can never conquer it, help other people in a tangible way and make positive change. The Mission is completely unselfish. It'll be the most unselfish thing in your life.

Once you know your Mission in life, your purpose, then you can start to really live for the first time. You'll stop wasting your time pursuing women outside your marriage. Invite your wife to join you and start using her energy and enthusiasm for a purpose. Trust me, with the right Mission, you'll need her help. You'll stop fighting with your wife because you two will be so busy working on a common goal you won't have time to fight.

Your "what can I get from the world" attitude will change quickly into "what can I give to the world." You'll wake up in the morning excited to use the little time you have left in this life to make real change in people's lives. Your two children will grow up with a mom and dad doing something more valuable than work, eat, sleep, rinse, repeat. This will offer them the example of a life well-lived that you didn't have.

All RP principles are worthless without a Mission. All RP principles are invaluable with a Mission. The bad news is that your life is a disaster like most other men in this sub and in our world. The good news is that you recognize it and are looking for wisdom. You've tried all the silly RP tactics they told you would work. They didn't. Cut your losses and restart from the beginning. Create a foundation from which you can build a worthy life and become a worthy man. That foundation is a Mission that changes the landscape of your mind and alters the path of your life, your family and countless other lives.

When you enjoy spending time with your family, your wife is supportive and encouraging, your kids are happy and healthy, and you are thankful for the opportunity to make lasting change in people's lives, you will be living the life you wanted. It's possible. Find your Mission. Leave a legacy.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (44 children) | Copy

So ... I always thought my career was my mission.

Does a mission need to be altruistic for altruisms sake? Or can it be creating for the pleasure of having created?

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (14 children) | Copy

/u/coachdad8 is right you need a mission.

And I agree.

But you're so far off from knowing what that could be - you need to unfuck yourself first.

A mission of meaning can only come once your mind is clear. It supercedes all. Your career is not your mission. Sidebar, specifically TWOTSM to help you with that.

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy

He doesn’t need a mission he needs to tell his wife he’s done with her shit and moving on - only issue is he can’t and even if he did she would see right through it.

If can find a way to get there none of this will matter.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's a big issue with the RPC types.

"It's not a personal issue. It's gotta be something else."

Lots of word, tons of cheerleading, full of hype, but very little stuff.

-- and the answer's God.

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That makes a lot of sense - I see this push come up every so often and I don’t get it.

A mission is something a guy who has complete control of himself and his world can seek out - this faggot doesn’t even have the balls to tell his shrew of a wife that he’s had enough of her shit which is the number one indicator that he hasn’t done shit for work and he himself is still the problem. The moment you know you aren’t the problem that’s a very easy conversation.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy

I can that's the title of the post. I'm filing in a month. But I'm not about to make an empty threat. I'd rather have the paperwork ready.

If time DOES go to divorce, then I'm prepped to get the best outcome

[–]hack3geRed Beret1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

You are fucking giant faggot who is about to blow up his marriage without understanding shit and doing no work.

You legitimately said you never lifted - there’s a reason that’s step one you fucking moron.

You are an unattractive whiny bitch who doesn’t deserve a woman who is sexy, affectionate and wants to gargle your cum. You have zero frame and at best look like a skinny fat faggot. I’m 5’8” and 195lbs - you have like 4 inches on me and get I’m 20lbs heavier with abs.

I guarantee you put your shrew of a wife in a room with me I would have her panties around her ankles in 10 minutes with her begging to do all kinds of dirty things to her.

You want results but are just a lazy faggot who has done zero work. If you can’t replace your wife in less than 24 hours with some hot 20 year old thot you are just lying to yourself.

You are at step zero faggot.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

You legitimately said you never lifted - there’s a reason that’s step one you fucking moron.

I didn't say that. I've lifted for 3 years. Quarantine has me stuck at home. I haven't bothered measuring my 1RM for ages though, never seemed to do me much good knowing it. I'm well over my bodyweight; probably about double bodyweight on DL, short of that on squats.

you're right as are several others in this sub; 175lbs isn't nearly enough. I'm pushing harder on my bulk since this convo started

with the gym closed i've been following taophysique's youtube channel and using it to do bro splits of sorts: chest, biceps, triceps, shoulders, back, legs/cardio

Frame: you're right, its my biggest weakness. I'm trying to suss out what's gone over my head this whole time.

[–]hack3geRed Beret1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

Your issue is you are faggot who gives too many fucks and is still half assing it all.

I burned my entire life to the ground - I gave zero fucks what my wife or anyone else in this world thought and gave them all a chance to be a part of my new world. Trust me you have no clue how cold, nasty, shrewish and evil a woman can be - your wife’s probably a saint compared to mine. I became a man that people value in their life including my wife and they act accordingly to keep it that way.

Most men don’t have what it takes to turn their shit around - they cant handle the discomfort of what it takes. They stop half way thinking they won but really they weren’t even close. It takes a fuck ton of work to get to the top 10%, ten times that to get to the top 5% and you can’t even imagine what it takes to get to 1% where anything is possible and women approach you and their panties are already soaked.

So the question at the end of the day is always the same for every man here - what are you willing to do to get the life you want?

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

I've given up a lot to carve out fitness time and to make sure I'm meeting the requirements of being a responsible adult and dad and achieve my career goals.

Past that I'm about ready to divorce my wife (whom I've already dragged all over the country for my career), sell my house, lose the respect of everyone I care about in the process (it's a religious community).

I've given up most unhealthy foods and most unproductive hobbies. I'm not really attached to those

So... Everything but 40% custody is on the table.

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Damn I’m practically clairvoyant these days - I said you were half assing everything and you just confirmed it all.

I didn’t give up shit when I decided to live my life I only added to it.

Your wife won’t give a shit when you tell her you are leaving - she will think you are joke. You will get a huffy, throw a temper tantrum and never pull the trigger and then coming crawling back with your tail between your legs.

[–]coachdad81 point2 points  (28 children) | Copy

Since part of my Mission is helping other men discover their Mission, let's get started.

- - - -

Your individual Mission is designed only for you. How that Mission is played out is unique to you. You have a special set of skills and talents that God gave you specifically for your Mission - not to be successful in business or to be a good dad or to be the cool, alpha guy at the party - specifically for your Mission. Once defined, start thinking of ways you can use those talents and passions. Essentially what you are trying to discover is how you are going to help facilitate change in the lives of other people.

Your Mission needs to be huge and unreachable. It supersedes all other important things in your life - business, family, friends and hobbies. Because if all of those things are taken away from you, yet your Mission still remains. It cannot be about your wife and it has to be externally focused. It can't be about yourself or improving yourself because the right Mission that helps people and changes your community will naturally force you to improve in order to further accomplish the goal.

A warning: Don't arrange the Mission around your lifestyle, fit your lifestyle around the Mission. Men who are entrepreneurial and successful tend to cram the Mission into their current life instead of wrapping their life around the Mission. Make the shift even if it means selling off your company or walking away or limiting yourself to 20 hours a week. Your business is the means that enables you to pursue the Mission. I've launched and sold several companies over the years and currently own a sporting goods manufacturing business to which I have limited myself to 20 hours per week (and turned down large contracts) in order to focus on a higher purpose. God convicted me and now my business and other ventures seem so silly and small compared to something larger and more meaningful. The business will never be your legacy because no one will remember it after you are gone.

Here's a few examples that might get you thinking.

John wants to help mentor young men in his community so he reaches out to the local sports league and becomes a youth sports coach. He becomes assistant coach for a couple years and gets to know the other coaches and the local kids. Next season he coaches his own team and teaches them principles of masculinity, discipline, and success. In the offseason, he has them over once a week for "training" which is mental, physical and spiritual coaching. As these boys turn into men, they instinctively think of Coach as their 2nd dad and their mentor - the man who changed their lives.

Tom is ex-military who has a desire to stop child trafficking so he joins a nonprofit that rescues victims. The organization coordinates covert missions late at night and Tom is their driver who takes the rescued victims to a safe-house. While there, he is their watchman and protector until they can be moved to a permanent safe location. Because of his natural leadership ability, he moves up in the organization and starts to plan the logistics of the missions and expands the reach of the organization.

Sam has a passion for the outdoors so he bought 40 acres in the woods, built a dozen rustic cabins and hosts Family Summer Camp. Each week throughout the summer, families come to his camp to play sports, hike, kayak, ropes course, zipline, swim and bike. For most families, this is the best week of the year and the only time they grow closer with no outside distractions. Each week has a theme and guest speakers. Many alumni of Family Summer Camp, now grown, bring their children each summer.

Bill, a serial entrepreneur, sold his last company. He approached the local community college and set up an Incubator for the students who want to try their hand at startups. He hosts a competition each semester for best business concept and offers $10,000 and office space to the winning team. He's in the office everyday mentoring, coaching, encouraging, and pushing them to understand what it takes to be successful. They learn valuable business skills but more importantly they learn life skills. Many graduates of the program have gone on to start their own Incubators.

In each of these examples, the common denominator is that the effects last long after you are gone. That's called LEGACY.

Lastly, I believe their are levels of a Mission. Level 1 would be your basic stuff anyone can do and takes little skill. For some guys this is still great progress. Level 2 would be slightly bigger in scale and more challenging. Level 3 is where you start to revolve your lifestyle around the Mission. Level 4 and Level 5 are more in scope to what Bill Gates is doing with the Gates Foundation - world-changing and multi-generational in scope. Level 4 and 5 take an immense amount of talent and dedication that most men will never possess.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

This is terrible advice. Especially this:

Your Mission needs to be huge and unreachable.

Without even pointing out that you don't appear to understand the importance of vision, which trumps mission, you tell people to create a mission that is huge and unreachable. I understand that's how you roll, what with the invisible mission-maker you're so transfixed upon, but in the real world, this world, not a future fairy-tale world, your advice is the exact opposite of what OP or anyone else should be following.

Jesus jumped. You also wrote:

It cannot be about your wife and *it has to be externally focused. *

Fuck all dude, how about for a few minutes you step back from your transparent mission and understand that, again, in the real world - that advice - externally focused - is the exact opposite of what OP or anyone else should be listening to.

What do you do for a living? Write children's fairy tales?

If you have a mission that is huge and unreachable, aka unmeasurable, then how to gauge whether you're reaching it or not reaching it? Ever hear of milestones? Or don't you bother with those, kind of like my wife?

Imagine if Tom, your ex-military hero, were back in the military. He's a bad-ass captain of a ship - a fucking ship armed with nuclear weapons. China has shot down two of our pilots, invaded taiwan, and has launched air attacks on south korea.

"Tom," says the Rear Admiral, looking down at him with an a icy gaze, "we're throwing you into the fray before anyone, such is our trust in you."

"Thank you sir," Tom replies, appreciating his boss's belief in him and stealing himself to help his country.

"We want you take your ship and captain it, head east-by-northeast and keep going, and going, and going," the Admiral continues, "Your mission is huge and unreachable, Tom."

"Excuse me sir?" Asks Tom, incredulous at being given such a preposterous non-mission mission. "What is my objective?"

"There is no objective, the mission is huge and unreachable."

"How do I know if I've succeeded?"

"You won't. The mission is huge and unreachable."

"But, sir, this is preposterous. You are my superior officer it is your job to clarify my mission and it is my job to do everything in my power to conquer the goals that will enable me to achieve that mission."

"There are no goals and you need not worry about what's inside you son, nor your own internal abilities to do your job. You see, this mission is huge and unreachable and externally-focused."

"Huh? I'm sorry, this all just sounds so silly and ridiculous."

"Don't worry son, your legacy will remain in-tact. They will remember you for millennia to come. They will revere you. They will sings songs about you. Maybe you'll even be featured in your own book."

Jesus.


Stick to the other sub dude, your advice is nonsense.

By all means if anyone's vision, mission, goals, milestones, plans all equal G-O-D, then I'm sure this dumb-ass is the dumb-ass to listen to, perhaps while fondling yourself by candlelight; but otherwise, don't waste your time, people.

[–]coachdad8-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

I already mentioned you. RP Life Guru advice above. Disregard his long-winded verbal vomit. Stay out of this discussion son, the adults are talking.

Go ahead and disregard all the nonsense you've received so far. Most of these guys dishing out advice are either divorced, about to be divorced, or have terrible marriages and are angry and spinning plates because they took their own bad advice.

After 61 comments, not one of these RP Life Guru's seemed to mention your Mission. I guess they haven't read the sidebar.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Easy to point out how everyone's wrong, except you.

Harder to acknowledge such absurd holes in your argument.

[–]JoeBuckYourslf1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

He called you "son".

Hahahahaha

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (23 children) | Copy

Every example you gave was an external mission with what we can suspect is clouded in validation - I won't say proven because well... it doesn't have to be. What about men that have an internal mission? Does that not count?

Such shitty batman complex advice that feeds into more BP indoctrination. "It must be external. "

Bullshit.

[–]weakandsensitive3 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy

The irony of the worst of the RPC mouth pieces was that Jesus' mission was internal. I'm pretty sure I've never heard about how Jesus went around looking for followers and begging them to come on his mission.

It was the disciples that were told to go spread the word, but not Jesus himself. From everything I know, homie just walked the path and people wanted to follow.

I'm not a theologian, but it seems pretty obvious that one of those people was internally validated while thirteen of those people focused on external validation.

Note to the RPC crowd, obviously feel free to point out how I'm wrong and how Jesus did work very hard to get that external validation. Seems to me if you're a good little RPC wanting to be more like jesus, you'd focus hard on walking the path, not trying to get your mission externally validated by getting everyone to agree to your bullshit.

[–]RStonePT2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

And the reformation started literally by Martin Luther being pissed off the church was taking money to offer forgiveness and he told people to stay at home and let the people and Jesus sort it out on their own time.

[–]Red-Curious2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy

Just seeing this. You're correct here - Jesus was internally validated, not externally. He did not pine over whether or not some guy would follow him. He had abundance, knowing if he kept doing his thing, people would join him. He even commented at one point that if nobody else would do it, "the rocks would cry out." Yeah, he did specifically call people to follow him, and that's fine too. But the imperative was not merely to "go spread the word." It was to "make disciples." In short, he's saying, "The way you just saw me live my life with you, go make that your way of life too."

It is churchianity that has screwed this up and re-interpreted the phrase "make disciples" out of its obvious meaning and replaced it with "tell everyone what you believe and make them believe it."

In practice, Jesus' model looks a lot more like what /u/HornsOfApathy did in the post I referenced here than the whole "stand on a street corner and shove the Bible down everyone's throats" garbage. Some principles I see in his post:

  • He was just doing what he wanted to do and another guy wanted what he had.

  • He enjoyed teaching the guy and it enhanced his own life and sense of fulfillment seeing his frame project into this kid.

  • Watching the results of his efforts gave him an internal sense of satisfaction - enough to write a post about it - but with the obvious flip: if the kid hadn't followed, there's no indication he would have been butthurt about it.

I usually enjoy what Horns writes, but I haven't followed him closely enough to know if he has kids. Kids are literally a physical piece of yourself externalized into the world. I love the idea of projecting myself into the world - not because someone told me to, but because it's fun creating a kingdom for myself - even as I am part of my father's kingdom, as he was of his father's. That's how patriarchy works.

But the reality is that I don't want any more than the 4 physical little goblins running around my house that I already have. So, instead of projecting my physical self, I make spiritual children - and not in the "shout it from the mountaintops" method, but with the "I'm awesome, anyone who wants to come along is welcome" approach that Horns took. Wouldn't it be great if this approach led to so many people wanted to follow that we literally had to pick and choose which ones get to learn from us and which ones have to play second-fiddle? That's what Jesus had when he went on the mountainside and called his 12.

Tag: /u/coachdad8 - I appreciate your zeal, but in this case it seems to have been misplaced. There are good things being said on both sides. What happened to "take what works and leave the rest"? I'm not sure why anyone needs to start insulting and measuring dicks this way. It just comes off as a loss of frame ... unless it's funny. I'm always up for a good laugh.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

well - on the bright side, I'm glad this conversation is going to take place on rpc. I'm sure /u/coachdad8 will keep harping his transparent "validate me" message over there until you bow dow and acknowledge that Jesus was a validating seeking bitch with no frame.

[–]Red-Curious0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

He did put it up. It didn't have the issues I was expecting. I mostly agree with what he says, though there are certainly some differences in our underlying framework for understanding it all. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and filled in the gaps.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's the approach to making disciples I see as the main issue.

The MRP parallel is trying to get a wife to love him versus being a guy who's worth loving.

At MRP, if your goal is to make your wife love you, you're almost guaranteed to fail. That's why we always suggest having a great live and putting in a conscious effort to invite your wife along.

I imagine if the goal is to make disciples, you'd fail in a similar fashion. On the flip side, if you live a life worth following, and reach out where the opportunities present themselves -- I'd imagine a higher success rate. I say this knowing nothing about disciples, only knowing about nature and our ability to perceive lack of authenticity.

[–]rocknrollchuck0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

On the flip side, if you live a life worth following, and reach out where the opportunities present themselves -- I'd imagine a higher success rate.

That's why RC posted "An MRP Mod makes a disciple." It references HOA's post "Teaching a 16yo kid to Lift" to make the point that discipleship is just like you said: live a life worth following, and reach out where the opportunities present themselves. Whether you're a Christian or a non-Christian, the basic principles are the same. Christians often try to make it much more complicated than that because Churchianity has taught them to do it a certain way. Our goal is to get back to the way Jesus actually did it.

I say this knowing nothing about disciples, only knowing about nature and our ability to perceive lack of authenticity.

And that's exactly the point: it CAN'T be authentic if you're not living it yourself first.

[–]RStonePT0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Kids are literally a physical piece of yourself externalized into the world.

This one statement has fucked up more kids than you can imagine.

[–]Over60_FireTempered3Red Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Only on the basis of genetics, it was a true statement. Reality is, I can pick my (grown) kids out of a stadium of thousands, have done it. But, when you add the implied idea of projecting oneself through your kids lives, wow, what a pile of mess.

I spoke before of the abyss of having kids. It's not the kids, not the genetics of it, it's the weak minded projection of oneself through their kids. Once the parent jumps into the abyss of self validation via their kids, everyone gets pulled down, when the existential job of a parent is to lead, and lift up. Done....end of rant...

[–]RStonePT0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I see what you were referring to before with the abyss

[–]Over60_FireTempered3Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I should explain myself better, to those that matter to me.

[–]coachdad81 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy

u/johneyapocalypse

There's always a couple children at Christmas dinner who want to sit at the adults table. Well, pull up a chair.

I'll use small words since you went to public school.

If you have a mission that is huge and unreachable, aka unmeasurable, then how to gauge whether you're reaching it or not reaching it? Ever hear of milestones?

Unreachable doesn't mean unmeasurable. The word you were searching for was "Immeasurable - too large or extreme to measure." College isn't for everyone, the world needs bartenders and landscape workers.

And yes, a man's Mission in life will be unachievable. See I went and used another word you'll need to look up. If you can accomplish your Mission in life within a few years, what value does that bring knowing you accomplished a relatively simple task? And what satisfaction? I'll tell you since I have accomplished many of these missions. Fleeting. For some men, opening a business becomes their purpose. Once the business is self-sustaining, it's boring. Guy passed BUD/S, becomes a SEAL. Few months later he feels empty. He becomes a Team Leader. It feels great to lead men, until it becomes a routine and he starts drinking to pass the time between deployments. The commonality of these scenarios is their lack of fulfillment.

You see this pattern in men who don't think big enough. For some men like yourselves, maybe just having a reason to wake up in the morning is enough and that's fine. For others who are farther along in life and are more successful, they understand the goal must be unachievable but not unmeasurable.

More on that later.

What about men that have an internal mission?

Now we are getting somewhere. Internal motivation is the driver behind the Mission. You could also use the word "purpose". The purpose is the WHY, the Mission is the WHAT. This explains why the Mission must be externally focused while the purpose is internal. You cannot make the Mission about your wife or family and you can't make it about yourself because your Mission cannot be about the people you are going to recruit to help with the work. And again, recruiting your wife and children to help with the Mission would be a first step. If you can't get your wife and kids excited about joining the Mission, you aren't much of a leader. But like I said above, the Mission precedes the wife and kids because if they leave, yet the Mission still remains.

Enough high-level talk about philosophy. Let me use Tom, the ex-military guy, to illustrate how this plays out. Tom re-joins the military as Captain of a nuclear ship in Johney's fantasy. His "mission" is to save the world from China. A long and brutal ordeal takes place filling hundreds of pages in a Tom Clancy novel, but ultimately Tom succeeds and the world is safe once again. Hurrah! Tom goes back to his little 4 bedroom house in Ohio to spend the rest of his life in retirement with his wife and 2.5 kids filled with the satisfaction that he saved the world. 6 months later Tom is about to blow his brains out because he has no Mission.

One night Tom reads about an organization that rescues Child Trafficking victims and he joins. His Purpose is to help people, to save lives, and to make lasting change in the world. Now he has an internal Purpose and he has an external Mission. Except with this Mission, there are always more kids to be rescued and the mission never ends with retirement. He's not getting paid to do it so it's not for the money, an external motivator. He's adding value to the world and he's continuing to grow as a man through use of his unique talents. He's creating a lasting legacy and fulfilling his purpose.

Tom's Mission has measurable goals. How many kids did they rescue this year? But the larger Mission is unachievable.

Fix Your Life Before The Mission

You don't need to fix your life before you start to pursue your purpose through execution of a Mission for the same reason why you don't get in shape before going to the gym. The Mission is the fire that refines and purifies the man.

Gates Foundation - Level 5 Mission

Bill Gates was the richest man on earth and he retired to start the Gates Foundation. His Unachievable Mission is "to help all people lead healthy, productive lives. In developing countries, it focuses on improving people's health and giving them the chance to lift themselves out of hunger and extreme poverty, to ensure that all people—especially those with the fewest resources—have access to the opportunities they need to succeed in school and life."

OOPS. Someone forgot to tell Bill and Melinda that their Mission needs to be "internal" and "achievable".

Maybe you should write them an email.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Your second follow-up, like your first, is full of holes and factual inaccuracies.

  • You are confusing vision and mission.
  • You are advising readers to fail.
  • You have simply made-up that a mission should be unachievable.
  • Your defense of these statements is that you were left wanting after you achieved your own missions in the past.
  • The SEAL example you use is an over-generalization based on your feelings of inadequacy and your need to seek out something larger than yourself, God.
  • You imply that "thinking big" means believing in God; I argue that focusing on God simply stifles your own personal growth.
  • Your unattractive writing - haughty, presumptuous, scornful, sardonic - is likely a reflection of your unattractive behavior outside mrp.
  • You are obsessed with people remembering you when you die, and it would appear that you have made this your externally-imposed mission in life. I find it ironic that your mission in life will hopefully be fulfilled when you are dead. Will you have that satisfaction you crave so much then?
  • Quite simply, you are in no position to be advising men here or in the main mrp sub.

  1. You are confusing vision and mission, as I alluded to above. Simply search for the difference between vision and mission to understand why.
  2. If unreachable does not mean unmeasurable, then your advice is much worse. A mission is designed to support a larger vision, much like goals are designed to achieve a mission. If the mission you espouse is huge and unreachable, yet at the same time, measurable, then you are suggesting that readers fail at their mission, whichever mission they are pursuing, at any given time. You are encouraging people to fail.
  3. You say that a man's mission in life will be unachievable. Again, you are conflating mission and vision, but regarding the "unachievable" perspective, you have simply made that up. There are tomes written about mission, vision, and the like, and while a vision should be aspirational it should not be unachievable. Regarding any mission, it must be achievable, else you grow accustomed to failure and routinely allow it in your life, and worse, preach to others that it's the right choice, like you are doing.
  4. Your evidence for why you argue a mission should be "unachievable" is that you, yourself, found the process of completing multiple missions fleeting and unsatisfying. Because you are constantly acting and behaving in accordance with your religious doctrine, the ultimate external-locus-of-control, the ultimate "seeking" of something greater than yourself - and because not doing so is unsatisfying to you - then you suggest that we all bend the rules along with the objective definition of mission and vision, and follow your contrarian, misguided advice.
  5. Your SEAL example provides more evidence for your lack of understanding of mission and vision. With that said, I understand that your mission, vision, and everything else about you embodies that invisible man you are so sure is pulling your strings and guiding your destiny. You make a gross generalization: because you found accomplishing a variety of missions unfulfilling, then everyone else will too. You don't even think that the dissatisfaction could be your own fault, the result of something you did poorly. What's more, you don't appear to have the introspection necessary to realize that your own religious fervor is itself what most compels your argument. You did this, you did that, you mastered this, you mastered that; but it was only when you found god - the penultimate manifestation of an external-locus-of-control - that you were fulfilled. And because that has been your reality, then it should be, by your definition, the reality of all men.
  6. I'll comment more on the unattractive nature of your writing, which I'm confident runs rampant in your behavior outside of MRP - but you further imply that I am unsuccessful and you are successful - and one major reason is because you are able to "think big enough" and, presumably, I am not. By big do you mean believing in a God? The God? Walking on water? Vestal virgins in the afterlife? If that's what you're implying then I would agree with you. Conversely, in the event your definition of "thinking big" requires believing in (1) your god, (2) a god, or (3) any other fairy tale, then I would suggest that you are actually not thinking big, and in fact, you are largely stunting your own personal growth.
  7. Your contradictory commentary next suggests that "the purpose is the why, the mission is the what." And you follow that by saying "This explains why the Mission must be externally focused while the purpose is internal." The one sentence does not in fact explain the other. Perhaps you believe that it does, but as mere words penned to paper, it simply does not. Maybe in your co-opting of long-standing definitions of mission and vision you are suggesting that your mission should support your purpose. I think that purpose and vision can be somewhat interchangeable, however, the argument that your mission (or your vision or your purpose, for that matter) should be externally focused is, quite simply, wrong, or at least certainly not required, as you say. Don't confuse your belief with the tried and true methods of developing a vision, working on a mission to support that vision, and guiding your way through a plan made of goals and milestones. Perhaps you need external guidance, validation, support, or purpose, but that does not mean I need as much. Personally, I find that very need of yours to be a clear, evident weakness that you are, ironically enough, incapable of considering.
  8. In your bizarre embellishment of the navy captain, you suggest that once you complete a mission you cannot have another one. You do this for a few reasons: first, as mentioned multiple times you do not understand the difference between mission and vision; second, you - personally - require external guidance or validation to be satisfied; and third, you believe that your own experience should drive others to believe the same. Oddly, it more perfectly illustrates your naiveté. It's actually unnerving that you have developed such a poignant, unwavering framework to explain the simple idea that you are not capable of finding satisfaction from within.
  9. I'm not sure your point regarding fix your life before your mission and I don't think it's important that I do so.
  10. Bill Gates' vision and mission may be unachievable to you. That does not mean it is unachievable to him, or further, that because Bill Gates' vision and mission is lofty, that all those who follow should be satisfied with failure. You have again grossly misinterpreted something you've read - or pretend you have expertise in - to support your own personal narrative and distorted worldview.
  11. When all is said and done, it would appear that your vision/mission/purpose/goal is to be remembered after your death. Interestingly, the FBI's behavioral analysis unit finds that many serial killers and nearly all spree killers, particularly those who are children, aspire to that very same thing. They tend to think that they (1) have been mistreated by society, (2) are incapable of becoming who they want to become, (3) feel powerless to get out of their proverbial ruts, and (4) use violence to get the one thing they so lust for: remembrance. There's a certain logic there. After all, "maybe I'm an absolute failure," they might utter, "but I'll be remembered for something." In your case, the logic is a bit different and would seem to suggest: "I'm unsatisfied and I will not look within because I cannot be responsible for this, someone else is responsible for this, and as such, I will routinely and regularly accept failure in my life while I walk along a preordained path, a path that not only enables my belief in failure, but actually embraces it. Then, one day, when I die I will be remembered."

As I mentioned above your writing makes you unattractive and - quite assuredly - dogs you accordingly in the real world as well, especially as it relates to your wife. I don't mean the lack of facts. I don't mean the misinterpreting things. I don't mean the co-opting of language. I don't mean saying things like "this explains" when you haven't actually explained. And I don't mean the whole making things up to support your beliefs.

Instead, I mean the haughty, presumptuous, scornful, sardonic manner in which you hope to avoid facts and reason while stubbornly sticking to your own, factually inaccurate position.

There's something particularly intriguing about the Dunning-Kruger effect.

With that said, you should not be preaching to people here. There's already a sub for your silliness, and perhaps there, where some smart dudes can speak and reason well, you are a big hit. But we're trying to help people in a practical manner based on the real world, not the world of the after-life, which seems to define your very essence, or, as you say, your purpose.

I'm not particularly interested in helping you appreciate the many ways in which you are wrong. However, I would like to improve the chances that no one stumbles upon your vapid, medieval ramblings, and believes that what you say has merit.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

He's been banned from MRP for a long time because he posted these types of diatribes. No worries about him posting thoughts there.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm somewhat a believer but I prefer to achieve my goals. Didn't King David accomplish all of his goals? Didn't Jesus accomplish all of his? Didn't Noah? Even when Moses didn't make it to the Holy Land it was after freeing "God's chosen people" and knocking off Hamurabbis code.

IMHO (not that I usually get religious unless it's brought up) we're called to strive for perfection. THAT is unachievable by definition, but living in a post-crucifiction world means we don't have to grovel for every mistake we make. We have permission to be imperfect.

I also disagree with his external locus of control. God gives the gifts and the opportunities; but I'm the one with free will choosing to seize or squander them. I have to live with the consequences. I think too many religious types choose to embrace the religion rules and regulations of it while ignoring the natural laws of power, rather than the inner fire of it.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

You know man, I think I get you. In your entire comments back and forth here with u/johneyapocalypse I think I see it, finally. This is some advice for you. And yeah, it's long.

Part of my mission is to understand how men think and react to things given their mental models so I might continually evaluate my own. That's part of my internal mission, utilizing the external world. Here we go:

Stay out of this discussion son, the adults are talking.

College isn't for everyone, the world needs bartenders and landscape workers.

There's always a couple children at Christmas dinner who want to sit at the adults table. Well, pull up a chair.

I'll use small words since you went to public school.

When I was in college I took a creative writing level 100 course. Our final grade was to write a term paper that wove in a fictional short-story to support a controversial topic. Lots of people chose topics like welfare, college education... social issues mostly. I did too.

Being the little smartass that I was and probably out of boredom, I chose the biggest topic I could dream of: World Hunger and Peace.

I argued that in order to cure all the world's problems, we needed to commit mass genocide on a global level and just kill a bunch of people. It was highly racist, misogynistic and full of shit - but it made logical sense. I gave a really good argument supported by the short story and turned it in. I think in the end I argued that we should just execute around 60% of the world population. I got it back, grade of an F with minor grammatical issues.

I was really trying to be a creative writer in the paper. Expand my horizons and take on something I would have to be really creative about (and no I don't believe it).

In classic bold red -pen writing was my only feedback: "This is insane, Horns, and a blasphemy of the requested term paper. You have taken nothing seriously. I request you meet and discuss. I cannot believe you would be so stupid. You should be ashamed you've written this. F."

I went to the professor's office hours (who was college educated obviously) to clarify. He just didn't like it, so meh... F. I went to the dean of the department and argued my case. He read the paper and referred it back to the professor with notes that it should be graded on merit of completing the creative writing argument only with an option for me revise the paper if I wanted to.

Well you know what? That professor tore me fucking new one on magical grammatical, structural, and advanced concepts for 400 level writers. He went full fucking structural and developmental editor on this entry level paper. None of this had been mentioned before. Grade: F.

I made the corrections he suggested and he was required to review it again. Grade: C

Appealed to dean. Grade: I don't really remember. I passed though.

---------

I tell you this story because you remind me of that professor. When faced with something that doesn't match your world view, you simply grade it an F, call them stupid, and then try to move on.

Then when they double down on the premise of the argument, you just refuse to read the paper and double down by calling them stupid again and in an effort to destroy some of their logical ideas - you do the only thing you can: grab your little red-pen and use your supposed superior intellect to destroy them.

This sir, is ego.

And you are full of it.

And my bullshit meter read through everything you wrote here it contained.

And this is no way to lead men, especially if you're seeking to do so in your mission.

----------

And then it hit me:

For some men like yourselves, maybe just having a reason to wake up in the morning is enough and that's fine. For others who are farther along in life and are more successful, they understand the goal must be unachievable but not unmeasurable.

and:

Most of these guys dishing out advice are either divorced, about to be divorced, or have terrible marriages and are angry and spinning plates

You're propped yourself up as a graduate of the Good Mission College with a major in Man Husbandry, magna cum laude. You believe you are an expert in how to help men find their mission.

You know, I wrote a post once about mission seeking - and it was my worst post ever. I read it back now and cringe at parts. But here it is, and what did I say that I stand by?

Forceful mission seeking does nothing but push your core desires deeper into the depths of who you are and replace it with a facade of ego. To discover your mission and your core desires they must rise organically to the surface once all ego is bare.

You should evaluate why you're on the mission you're on, Batman.

Because I have a similar mission to yours, but mine involves no external mission (aka - validation) and accomplishes the same goal. You know what made me really happy about that post? /u/weakandsensitive spotted it. He was one of only TWO people here that really understood what I was saying and why I wrote it. It was about just walking the path and just being fucking me - and a "disciple" found me walking it, was willing to do the work and shed his own ego, and just asked me a bunch of questions and for help. To provide that help, I was internally and eternally focused in on me.

Why did he ask me for help? Acta non verba.

I didn't have to join a fucking charity for missing children, blow billions of dollars to solve polio worldwide, or anything. I was just living, being ME. Perhaps that young man will teach another to lift and grow into a man one day.

THAT will be a legacy that perpetuates giving my gift into the world after my death. I don't have to save another kid from child trafficking to do that. One more child saved... tick the box... check.... measured and onto the next one....

You and your dichotomy of "unmeasureable" mission. It's validation seeking hypocrisy.

To play into your type of negging here: The types of missions you use as an example are for publicly schooled children who lack the awareness of their own ego and the feelz it provides.

You know the kind of men that accomplish their mission? The ones that don't talk about their mission. The ones who walk it, and when a kid finds them he's focused on himself long enough to give his gift. He doesn't TELL the kid how to do it. He's just being who he is.

And that is how you prevent forceful mission seeking - which is what I think you're doing with your ego.

For all I care, your diatribe here reminds me of those school boys riding around dressed in white shirts with a nametag, black ties, and helmets atop a bicycle.

You can spot them from a mile away.

[–]coachdad8-1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy

Once, just once I'd like to see you spend more than 5 minutes in the shower thinking about a topic and maybe you would grow in wisdom. But you already have all the answers. Your life is a glaring example of wasted talent. Go for it. Live for you, bro.

I can smell the rank aroma of a man too scared to pursue something outside his own selfish well-being. You reek of it.

This is where we diverge: When I die, there will be no regrets about my time on earth. When you die, there will be nothing worth remembering about your time on earth.

Let's leave it at that so you can focus on "just living, being ME"

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

You are absolutely delusional.

You read nothing I wrote but are just here to argue your point. You might have skimmed it, as I suspected. Probably not worth your time when hits to the ego last forever.

Instead, you do the same thing I suspected, yet again. Used your ego as a shield to prevent you from seeing that's it's actually you that's the problem here, and attempt to prop yourself up at the expense of others.

Great external mission there brah.

I framed your mission in an entirely different context: focus on you, and your mission will be fulfilled by way of proxy. You know, kind of like homeboy J.C. did.

That is the idea of focusing in on oneself. Fucking shit man - for a self-absorbed and self-proclaimed smarty pants you're acting awfully dense. I'm not attacking you or saying you're a mean man, I'm saying your mental models are flawed.

This is where we diverge: When I die, there will be no regrets about my time on earth. When you die, there will be nothing worth remembering about your time on earth.

Answer /u/johneyapocalypse and his question in this same thread. Maybe you will be able to see that your entire mission is to... be remembered. How much of a mission is really that? What kind of fucking legacy is that?

I guess I get it, which W&S pointed to with the RPC types.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy

[removed]

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wrong.

Moralizing.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Why are you so obsessed with people remembering you when you die?

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You set the massive trap he set for himself before I could. Nice.

[–]Tyred_Biggums1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

No one will remember you in 1000 years. Who the fuck cares? You’re just like the thousands of others who pretend they are giving and making a difference to get a selfish sense of satisfaction.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret27 points28 points  (6 children) | Copy

You know, occasionally we get a guy that waltzes in here with a dick for brains and makes a post like this. Or maybe like this. I love it. I've got some extra time today.

So strap in buddy. I don't know you, but I do. I know faggots just like you. Because in some corner of the universe somewhere I was just like you at some point (sort of). I'm going to tell you exactly why you're not getting what you want in life, and you're not going to like it very much. You're going to think I'm an asshole. You're going to want to come up with every single excuse you can think of that I am wrong. But please, for the next few minutes just put that over-inflated ego away and listen. That's why you're here, right? To get advice? You want the real truth that you're too scared to confront? You want the reality of the situation?

I'm here to give it to you because I've seen dumb fucks like you for years come to MRP, think they have it figured out - but think "Hey, maybe I"m missing something...."

So... What am I missing???

Everything. Absolutely fucking everything.

I've dabbled in MRP and worked my butt off

So, you've dabbled. Or is it that you've worked your butt off? Which one is it, faggot? I'm going to guess the first.

.... to get in the best shape of my life.

6ft, 175lbs. I've been doing calisthenics since the coronavirus but I'm above my body weight on all the big lifts.

I was right! You did just dabble. Your lifts suck. You took your little micro-penis and dabbled it into the warm sea of Alex J Anderson's ego where the pussy flows free, you look like a great athlete and play wonderwall on your guitar until the sweet pussy juice is free. You're hot shit.

But you know the reality man? You aren't. I'm 6ft - and when at 150lbs looking like a jacked meth-head my lifts were all much bigger than yours. Your lifts suck. You have half-assed being a man. You know it. Don't you?

But why do you tell yourself this lie?

We just went on vacation and I was one of the best looking guys at the resort.

On my last few business trips I wound up in another woman's bed that I had just met. Blocked by ASD but fooled around quite a bit. And the other trip I would have scored had she not had her fat cockblock friend urging her to not join me for dancing.

Just because you were at a resort where there were likely a lot of fat people doesn't make you attractive. You are a dancing monkey who derives his own self-worth from women. You are a classic validation seeking faggot. You took time to make sure we knew you were good looking, and that speaks volumes of your ego.

Inside you're secretly afraid that you aren't attractive and that bleeds through everything you do and say to make you incongruent to your actions that your wife sees.

You're a classic LARPing alpha faggot.

I am now CEO of a company with 20 employees. This company is going through growing pains,

Hey Mr. Ego, do I see you peeking around the corner again? Growing pains? I bet you complain to this in your home and your wife hears it.

She is convinced the business will fails. She is convinced I will squander and lose my ample nest egg.

Yep, I bet you do complain. Or at the very least take the stress you have from it home with you and she feelz through this and doubts you.

Of course she does this. You're an egomaniac LARPing faggot that tells himself lies to make himself feel better.

Like being the best looking. Or your lifts are great. Or you're a CEO. Or you have 20 employees. Or the COUNTLESS and FUCKING POINTLESS little details you throw into this post to make damned sure we all know you're hot fucking shit with a 12 inch cock that any woman would be happy to have.

Except... the one woman you deeply desire wants it doesn't. Because she can read through your bullshit even when you can't. She sees the real you, and there is no fucking way she's going to give up the helm to a faggot captain.

About her: stubborn and serious with very high standards for herself and others. Jacktenofhearts had some great writings on dealing with this type of woman but I've struggled to understand what he was saying, I wish he were here to ask.

Jackten wrote about this when men had figured shit out, dropped ego, done the actual fucking work, and then were left with a woman who didn't want to give up control. You aren't any where near this. You can't even been authentic with yourself.

She's very critical of me, of herself, and worst of all... Of the children. In these cases I've had to step in and tell her it is unacceptable and I refuse to let her speak to my kids that way.

I get it, she has pretty high standards and is anxious. Part of that pre-dates you, but I'm going to take a wild fucking guess here and a shot in the fucking dark and say you've made her this anxious ball of mess and.... it's all your fault.

I must have one of the most anxious wives on this fucking planet, but you know what? All she probably needed was a man worth a shit and one that is capable of sailing the ship and wasn't lying to himself about his worth or abilities.

You have no outcome independence and guise wanting to be with your wife as "for the kids". It's bullshit. Secretly, you like the challenge. Not necessarily bad for now. But she's up on the pedestal and you know it.

....

So my advice?

Same I give to every faggot here.

Sidebar.

Lift.

Read.

STFU.

OYS.

Do the fucking work.

And drop the fucking ego already. It has done you no good.

You ain't shit, son.

[–]Breaking_the_beta3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I’m saving this reply to knock me down a few more pegs while I finish up my overdue OYS.

[–]WolfofAllStreetz4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

HornsofApathy is a National Treasure.

Finish Him.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm hearing I need to lift more and lose the validation seeking

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, to start. And understand (and pass) shit tests. MMSLP will help you with that.

Bottom line - she saved herself for a man worth a shit, thought she found it in you, and you've failed.

This post may help you as well: The Epic Test.

Took some balls to reply to my comment. Good. Now use them the right way.

Are you going to post next Tuesday in OYS?

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

Entitlement and neediness for validation ooze from your post like acid from a cracked battery, and are just as corrosive. They burn away any respect or appreciation your wife might otherwise have for your modest accomplishments. The only thing more toxic to her respect and desire than the constant emotional labor of catering to your weak, endless need for external validation is your sense of entitlement for it, and your resentment when you don't get praised to the skies for any modest accomplishment. (Can lift body weight; keep small company afloat; put clothes on correctly in the morning; kissed another woman... Wow, one in 1024 for sure; you owe me worship, bitch!)

You're needy, anxious, uninspiring, and resentful. You lack so much confidence in yourself that without constant validation from others you lie anxiously awake at night. In your years of dabbling at MRP as a Dancing Monkey, you have made no meaningful mental progress in developing your own frame and becoming your own self validating mental point of origin... which are the keys to remaining attractive in a LTR. You have ignored the most important parts of the program here.

You have no frame, so you're constantly in others' frames pathetically seeking their approval for any modest achievement, and you're hypersensitive to any criticism from your wife. Needing a woman to prop up your feelingz and confidence in yourself is poison to her attraction to you.

You must learn to self validate and handle your own emotional needs; read NMMNG. Develop your own frame. Read The Book of Pook for an illustration of the frame and behaviors of an attractive male, instead of the needy, entitled, resentful beta that you still remain.

Now that you finally realize that the Monkey Dance has failed, your real transformation can begin.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

"Now that you finally realize that the Monkey Dance has failed, your real transformation can begin."

Great. Let's do it. I'm here to grow. The marital problems are just an annoyance

NMMNG: I've read it twice. What should I be focusing on when I reread it to get the most out of it?

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do the "Breaking Free" exercises thoughtfully and seriously.

[–]jdogworld20 points21 points  (21 children) | Copy

Maybe before you divorce your wife you should do more than “dabble” and see if she comes around.

[–]RStonePT1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

You have a 4 and 1 yr old.

That's a pretty piece of shit move to wave his kids in front of him like a weapon. We have a strict anti-Karen policy round here.

Or did you literally have no other way to persuade him to do something?

[–]jdogworld-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

I fixed the post but thanks for whipping your cock out.

[–]RStonePT[M] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm not having a pissing match on the internet, I'm telling you that shaming tactics like this are against the subreddit TOS.

Now I know you want to mouth off right back at me, don't. I don't care and it's not about me.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 1 point2 points  (17 children) | Copy

What parts of MRP am missing?

[–]Cl_ARK14 points15 points  (6 children) | Copy

Sounds here like you lift and you read the scripture. That's the easy part.

Here's a likely red flag that you haven't actually done "the work":

We fight more than anything else.

By week 3, any OYSing Noob has figured out how to decrease fighting to 10-20% of what it was prior. Some fights can't be avoided, but most are just a waste of your time. If you feel the need to argue back constantly, you missed something.

I've turned around a worse situation than yours. I'm sure most successful guys here did, too. But if you're over it, divorce your wife. Watching their faggot dad incessantly bicker with a resentful mom isn't going to be any better for your kids than split custody.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

Let's more I'd like to give it a go. Obviously I'd rather turn this around for the kids.

You're right I clearly did miss something

[–]Cl_ARK1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Looking at your reading list, you missed the Athol Kay and Bluepill Professor books.

Those do the best job of translating theory to application within the dynamic of a marriage.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I've recently started MMSLP, is there another one you'd recommend?

BPP has a book?

[–]InChargeManRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What is a fight? Can you define the function and utility of a "fight"? Not a disagreement, a fight.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She's just always nitpicking and never onboard. I usually brush it off but she seems to sense when my frame is the weakest (tired, otherwise stressed, sick, etc)

[–]redwall922 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

By week 3, any OYSing Noob has figured out how to decrease fighting to 10-20% of what it was prior. Some fights can't be avoided, but most are just a waste of your time. If you feel the need to argue back constantly, you missed something.

Top comment right there. That time frame and those percentages are spot on for any guy that waltzes in wanting a checklist.

[–]NeoTheJuanDJ13 points14 points  (3 children) | Copy

The part you are missing is the internalization of red pill concepts. Right now, you are miming a high value man (at best). You have the exterior (looks, grooming, style, etc) but the internal isnt there. You are basically a paper alpha. If you were tested (which judging by your post you have been) you would fold and look for the quickest solution to ending your misery aka automatically jumping to divorce. This may be unnecessary, and the fact you have kids means this is something you may want to consider before making a move. You need to read the sidebar, read NMMNG, do the exercises, read thee tire sidebar multiple times, practice. You may think you have it, but you don’t. In six months time, you will “break-through” with a new level of understanding with these concepts, you will think you get it but you don’t. This shit takes years. You will fail multiple times, even in the unlikely chance that you put the work in and remain consistent with this content.

The thing you simply cannot fathom or POSSIBLY fully understand yet: is that there is a very good chance that you may be the problem and divorce is unnecessary. That’s a very difficult pill to swallow. That is why I would advise not acting yet because your perspective is still BP and your level of self awareness and progress towards becoming higher value is minimal. ego is a bitch. And you are not ready to be in control. You may think you are, but you aren’t even aware of what needs to be done to begin developing the skills to control your life.

You are not in a place to act. You need to internalize and study, and apply changes to yourself, before you apply changes to your relationships. Your ego and lack of internalization of these concepts is the problem. That’s all I can say.

Read, stfu, and lift. Try, fail, overcome. Internalize over time. You’re not even close but you’re in the right place.

[–]Redrover8577 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Wow. Just read this every morning. Fucking paper alpha. Ouch

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Paper Alpha rings so true. It really highlights what I have to work on

[–]Onein1024th[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

NMMNG kicked my ass three years ago, I should probably reread it again now

[–]simbarlionRed Beret4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Its rare that i am in favour of your divorce when the others are telling you to MRP properly and OYS more.

But just like u/i-am-the-prize , what you're missing is that YOU have given up. You're moving ahead on the basis that the relationship is doomed. You're convinced that you are fine and all the problems are with her. SHE must change. And I respect that maybe you are right.

But have you really tried everything? or are you just sick of waiting to see her magic transformation?

Just like AA for an Alcoholic, MRP is your path to a possible fix. But the motivation has to come from within you otherwise you will never stick it out.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

What parts of MRP am missing?

The parts you missed while you were “dabbling.” It would be helpful if you explained to us what dabbling means to you

It’s pretty simple really. Not sure if you’ve seen this, but the formula is

  • Sidebar (Read the whole sidebar, and reread. Rinse. Repeat.

  • Lift

  • STFU

It takes time. Your wife if probably used to you being a faggot, and she’s not going to change her mind overnight. I’m not going to spoon feed it to you beyond that... especially since this feels like another troll post

[–]Onein1024th[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Well I've been at it for four years. But I also moved across the country twice and had major career changes. So there was a year off from lifting in there and some major setbacks to my social circle. So I feel disingenuous saying I've been progressing up the BPP steps of dread methodically as prescribed.

Rather I've been squeezing it in in fits and starts.

My reading list is up top. I'll find my last recorded 1RMs too. I'm in the best shape of my life and getting better all the time.

Frame is the real struggle for me. And I naturally learn things well, but it's probably my weakest point even though I've done the most reading on it.

And when I ask on these forums to get help past that wall I get the "not gonna spoon-feed you" trope.

Honestly I'm all ears for any resources I might have missed on this topic because it's not sinking in for me. How do you even get to the point where you can say to yourself mid-conversation: "that's a shit test, I should AA in this situation" because it's kind of autopilot for me and I honestly can't tell if I'm going Rambo on a comfort test or failing a shit test most of the time.

How do you get to that point? How do you start to think like that?

I just kind of do what I know is right and tell her off when her harping gets on my nerves

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Frame is the real struggle for me. And I naturally learn things well, but it's probably my weakest point even though I've done the most reading on it

Ok, this is a good starting point. Reading on frame won’t do anything unless the practice is alongside it. If you have weak frame, it essentially means you seeks others approval more than your own. If you have frame, nothing can shake it. You seem to be looking for the right responses at the right time based on your next couple lines (after your frame comment). That’s not how frame works .

Frame is internal strength. So, when you say you lack frame, you are essentially are saying you lack internal strength.

How do you develop frame/internal strength? You first start with STFU. I know how hard it is because it took me a year or more. It sounds easy, just STFU.... but the practice is hard and how you STFU.... that’s something that’s different for everyone. You have to develop your own brand of STFU. I don’t know how to describe it better than that.

You are looking for a magical answer or a set of answers to solve your problems. It doesn’t work that way. There are no shortcuts.

Once you master STFU, then you can start working on A&A, fogging. and AM.... etc. you develop frame by practicing these things, one at a time. Then, one day you wake up and you understand frame. Right now, you don’t understand frame because you don’t have it.

Also, You have to work the levels of dread ... one at a time. Don’t skip levels.

I can’t break it down any easier than that, but now you have to put in the years of work I have put in if you want the frame I have. Start today... don’t be in a hurry. Follow the simple plan I outlined. I close with... it’s “simple” but it’s not easy.

Quit making excuses and start making small victories until you wake up and realize you have frame, and you don’t k ow when you got it. Once you have frame, you may lose it at times, but you will always know the path back.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

That explanation helps.

It just seems like such a foreign thing to practice I struggle with where to begin.

How do you even go about doing that?

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Like I said, start with STFU. If you do it right, it will take you a good amount of time to figure it out because it’s different for everyone. Develop your brand of STFU through trial and error

STFU doesn’t mean go mute. It means talking less... less DEERing, less babbling, less butthurt... etc. don’t expect it to happen overnight. Have patience.

[–]BostonBrakeJob7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

Have you tried blowing in her snatch like an old Nintendo cartridge?

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Won't work. He's still looking for the game genie attachment for the cheat codes.

[–]redwall920 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wow. Way to advertise your ago, bro. That is hilarious. I just took a walk down memory lane sitting on the edge of my bed at my parents' house playing Contra on the old Nintendo.

Thanks for the chuckle.

[–]SepeanRed Beret5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

It sounds like you lift a bit, and do a good job at doing beta stuff. God you go on about your beta accomplishments.

But you lack frame and game severely. You have to think alpha and act alpha, man.

Think about how you’re signalling alpha in your social interactions with her. Read this and look ar the video of Corey Worthingtion https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/20/alpha/ that’s alpha. Not this pent up, neurotic, bitter, entitled, CEO-who-also-does-chores-and-home-improvement beta bullshit show you put up.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

How do I begin to internalize that? I've always been a high strung guy. I envy his inner peace and dgaf

[–]SepeanRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I use a 3 pronged strategy in my coaching:

  • get them to really understand the female dual strategy, how different alpha is from their idea of a good man, and that they’re wasting their energy by giving beta - they will never be rewarded with love and passion for it.

  • have them work on signalling alpha qualities

  • move their focus to self control and discipline with their behavior instead of trying to make their impulses change by thinking about it. Fat guys don’t wait for their hunger to go away before dieting either.

[–]Redrover85711 points12 points  (19 children) | Copy

First things first. “Above bodyweight” on all the lifts is not a standard, that should be a fucking benchmark. Until you can either squat or deadlift 2xBW you are a weak human being. And that’s not even very strong, but at that point I wouldn’t call you a weakling either. Fact of the matter is that if you can’t deadlift or squat upwards of 400 lbs and you don’t have some really strange leverages you don’t have much muscle mass. Secondly women are only as cold and stubborn as you allow them to be. But you can’t tell her to “not be stubborn.” You’re just too boring for her to give a fuck. It’s not her it’s you. Thirdly as far as starfish goes idk how that works honestly. Just force her ass to participate. Smack the shit out of her ass or something. Pull her fucking hair. It might be hard but i guarantee you missing half your kids lives is harder. I can’t imagine being away from my 4 and 2 year olds all the time. Especially if I knew all I had to do was grow a pair of balls.

I’ll add to this too. That as someone that competes in powerlifting and jumps around weight classes my appearance is not what gets my wife going. It’s almost entirely my behavior and the way I talk to her. We have the same sex life when I compete at 220 as we do at 181.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 4 points5 points  (18 children) | Copy

Once the gym reopens I'll get a 1RM and report back. Until then I'm following 6 day bro splits on gymnastics rings using exercises from youtuber taophysique.

The kids have been the only thing keeping me in this tepid relationship for 4 years.

How do I be less boring? My life itself is full of adrenaline. Running a small business, exercising, going out and being active. Trips with the guys. Fun dates with her asleep on her phone. What's my missing ingredient or dynamic or skill set?

[–]Redrover8578 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy

I don’t know man. I’m just saying I don’t know very many in shape, good looking, masculine men that handle shit,whose wives are bitches to them. Maybe she’s just a cunt but probably not.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Yeah that's what I'm trying to suss out. See if I missed anything before pulling the rip cord.

It would be convenient if she got on board

[–]rotkohlblaukraut0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

> It would be convenient if she got on board

That's your problem in a nutshell. Living your entire life in the passive voice.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm about to file for divorce, what about that is passive??

In b4 you claim you can hypnotize her into getting on board

[–]Redrover8576 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

We all bust balls around here but seriously man. Take a long look at your kids and ask yourself if you would be able to go to sleep 3 days a week(if your lucky) with them being tucked in and cuddling with another man. Because that will happen. And probably in a house you’re paying for.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy

You mean, 'wheres the cheat button?'

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy

No I mean what the fuck am I missing I've been reading and lifting and everything in my life has fallen into place except this miserable marriage. Point me to the next work to do

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy

You're doing this all for your marriage. You don't fix the marriage, you fix yourself. You still haven't done that.

Look in the mirror, point your finger at your refection.

There's your answer.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy

I've become an objectively better version of myself in every way since I joined MRP 4 years ago. And I love being me more than I ever have. And I've learned to love the self improvement journey & transcendence.

How does becoming an even better me fix my marriage, as other responders are suggesting while telling me not to divorce? I'm already better than the man she married. He was a 130lb wuss nerd loser

I'm just trying to find what I missed along the way before I pull the rip cord just in case it works for the sake of my kids. I couldn't live with myself if I felt I had left any Stone unturned

[–]AlohaMaui8082 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

What you're missing is that your motivation for doing all those self improvements is misaligned.

You didn't do them for yourself, you did them for your family, your wife, to improve your marriage, to better your social standing.

You did them for the approval of others.

Your self approval may have also been mixed in there, but it certainly was not the main motivating factor.

You're now operating under the covert contract "well, if I did all this and she still doesn't appreciate it, then I'll just fuck someone else who does"

This is a mindset where you are not the mental point of origin. Your actual motivations are not coming from within.

You can only get to the point where those motivations come from within after you've dug out and destroyed covert contracts like the one above (and you have many)

I hope you follow through and actually start posting in OYS. I hope you actually read the sidebar and the books, with the intent to understand and internalize the mental aspects, not just the observable ones. Making changes to your physical appearance and mannerisms is a necessary step, but its just the first step, and it isn't enough to get the results you're asking about here.

As other guys mentioned you need to learn to recognize shit tests and comfort tests, and then you need to learn to pass them without the use of dynamite or nukes (most of the time)

As many have already said, everything you've done that you're proud of...

1) is the bare minimum to not be unattractive. It doesn't make you attractive. Manning 101 doesn't get pussies wet, it merely keeps them from actively drying up at the sight of you. Congratulations, as long as you keep up this bare minimum, you get to actually play the game. Before this you weren't even playing.

2) you're using as a giant covert contract about how you think your wife should act in response to all the "great things" you're doing. She doesn't owe you anything, no matter what you've done. Stop having expectations of her. Honestly you'd make better progress if you started pretending she wasn't your wife, and that you were living in a home with just your children and a roommate. At least then you wouldn't have covert expectations about how your roommate should be fucking you, and if she did one day you'd simply appreciate it and not expect it to happen again (wouldn't you? Or are you that much of a Nice Guy that you'd already start another covert contract about a roommate who fucked you once?)

3) you've done in largest part because of external motivators, so it really doesn't help you become a man worth following.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

You're now operating under the covert contract

"well, if I did all this and she

still

doesn't appreciate it, then I'll just fuck someone else who does"

I'm definitely operating under that premise. 100%. Why would you stay with someone who isn't attracted to you, are you that thirsty? Is this whole MRP thing just a trap to get guys to stay in unsatisfying marriages for the kids? "all you need is more self improvement" ad nauseum

I'd rather sleep alone and I've gotten to the point where I often do sleep alone.

And yes, maybe I am a bit frustrated with my slightly improved marriage. I've spent nearly 4 fucking years examining every aspect of myself and revamping it to become significantly closer to my ideal self. When I started this process I was a 135lb whiny communist wannabe who missed college, bored people in conversation, and probably gave off creepy thirsty desperate vibes.

You can only get to the point where those motivations come from within after you've dug out and destroyed covert contracts like the one above (and you have many)

I have set an alarm in my phone every tuesday morning to post in OYS, because there's after all this work I have no fucking clue where my covert contracts could be.

[–]AlohaMaui8082 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

after all this work

Your ego still blinds you. I told you already. All that work was only shit to stop being unattractive it isnt going to make you attractive

Its possible to be proud of what you've accomplished in the past while still understanding and accepting that you're a shit eating faggot with so much improvement left to do that you've barely begun. Welcome to Hard Mode.

Its also obvious that even if you read the books and sidebar, you didn't understand them.

I have set an alarm in my phone every tuesday morning to post in OYS

😆

You really think you're going to get a lot out of this by whipping something up the morning of, huh?

I write my "rough draft" of my OYS on Wednesday. I look at what I wrote, find weak points in my thinking, and update and revise it on Thursday. Rinse and repeat until Tuesday, when I'm one of the first if not the first to reply when the post goes live, because that means you get visibility from others who might care to help. I've done all I can to figure it out myself be for asking for help here. Most of the time my OYS from Monday night looks different from Wednesday, both because more shit has happened but also because I did the work and introspected to fix as much of my shit on my own as I could.

Back to this though

gave off creepy thirsty desperate vibes.

You give those off now, just with the added unattractive trait of feeling justified that you deserve the sex for some reason.

Your mental perspective sounds the same to you, but to those who "get it" you're miles away from where you'd need to be if you actually had the correct mindset.

I already told you. Look inside and figure out why you feel like she owes you something. You're a text book Nice Guy. Go reread NMMNG.

FFS man do the internal mental work. We can't unfuck your mind for you.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Good advice on the drafts, will do.

I've read NMMNG twice. Can read again though

I guess I do expect sex. Would you say in a relationship with bad sex?

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Everyone goes through the phase you are in now. You've done the work, you're not seeing the results you want, you're thinking about throwing in the towel.

But you still have the nagging feeling that you're missing something, which is why you're here now.

You have all the answers you need in this thread. Many posters who have been through the same mill have responded and advised you but you're still looking for the magic bullet. There isn't one. The fact that you're still looking for it proves that you're not listening and only hearing what you want to hear. Your ego is preventing you from listening.

Go back, read again, let it sink in.

Then get to work. You're not done yet - not by a long shot. The day you are ready to burn it all to the ground, you'll know it. It will feel like certainty. There won't be any feelings of doubt. You won't be posting on MRP asking if you're doing the right thing. You'll just do it.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Reading comprehension check. This is what I've gained from this post:

  1. I'm still doing it for the wrong reasons (I'm not doing it for the joy of being a chad, i'm doing it for her validation). Which is insidious because I really don't think I am but I clearly need to examine this much more deeply
  2. I'm still missing frame
  3. my lifts aren't where they need to be to get in top 10%. I'm probably in top 30% right now

[–]redliferedemption4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

You say you have no problems enforcing boundaries in your job, but do you enforce them with your wife? It takes a while to realize that you are completely pussy-whipped, even if you improve all the other areas.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

That's where the fights usually happen. When I put my foot down, often about snapping at the kids or trying to blame me for everything. She doesn't like it when I shine a light on the situation she's complaining about.

Maybe I'm not going about it in the right way, but it seems the right thing to do... Enforcing boundaries and all

[–]redliferedemption1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

In my case the boundaries were less about what was being said, and more about what was being done. It's pointless to argue with the wife, you can't reason with her, her outbursts should be dealt with DARE instead of DEER. As for actions, I was feeling like I was doing too much, being a plowhorse for my family, taking no time for myself, and my wife being unappreciative for it. In hindsight I see I was trying to relieve her of her responsibilities as a wife, a mother, a SAHM. Once I realized this, I confronted her on the first few times she asked me to do something she could do herself. Then I stepped back, stopped trying to be the emotional cushion for my kid against my frigid wife, taking more time and doing stuff just for myself. She got the message and started stepping up to fill the void automatically.

[–]MardGeer6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your kids will survive divorce, go on through with it if you really tried everything. Sometimes you just have to walk away to live a better life.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

You've licked the pill. You haven't swallowed it and you certainly haven't internalised it.

You might be in the best shape of your life compared to the rest of your life previously but you're still a skinny fuck who is at least 25lbs away from looking like a man.

So you're a great Dad, have a decent career and you own your shit. Big fucking deal. Here's a gold star for being able to adult.

So... What am I missing???

The full story. You have a cold and distant wife who doesn't trust you to be Captain and has little or no desire for you.

Why is that? Was she liked that when you married her? Or did you make her that way? That's a rhetorcial question by the way, so don't be a retard and answer it.

You've spent a lot of time telling us how fucking awesome you are - what about the shit you're not telling us?

Half a story tells a lot. It tells that you still haven't faced, let alone killed your ego. And without killing your ego, you'll never know what it is you want and you will never have frame.

And that is why you are here asking us what you are asking us.

It all comes down to frame, brother. It's first and last and always.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

The shit I'm not telling you:

I struggle with sleep something fierce. The wife usually is getting the kids ready in the morning while I'm stumbling my way out of a Unisom induced fog. It doesn't help that my work is international and I work late often.

I'm a forgetful guy and have been my whole life. The trash doesn't get taken out a couple times a year. Or I'll clean the kitchen and forget to wipe the table.

See my other comments here, but frame is really hard for me to grasp and apply. I feel like I'm responding instinctually rather than identifying the shit test before I respond.

She jumps to conclusions about things and I tend to think them over for a bit, so she assumes I'm dull witted. Maybe I am? Fuck if I know

Uh.... My hair is thinning a bit, though I'm treating it with minoxidil and infrared

[–]weakandsensitive5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Note that everyone called you out for being inauthentic and insecure.

Nobody knows shit about you - and look at how easy it is to tell that you're full of shit just by the way you try to portray yourself.

Uh.... My hair is thinning a bit, though I'm treating it with minoxidil and infrared

Why do you care? It's because you know that you actually aren't hot shit.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I like having hair and so far it still looks good. I'll shave it when it doesn't.

Why do you trim your nosehairs? its inauthentic for you to not walk around looking like a caveman

[–]part_wolf2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy

I'm going to make one last month of all out effort at the advice of this subreddit.

You're going to spend a month justifying your decision to yourself and finding every reason why it's not your fault, because you've convinced yourself that you're an alpha now.

Fuck your career. Fuck being a good Dad. Fuck your half-hearted attempts to stick your dick in other women. Fuck your calisthenics. This is the shit that you're supposed to being doing anyway motherfucker. Are you expecting a gold star?

But most of all, fuck your ego. There are dozens of guys on this forum that are far more successful than you, and the ones that aren't are putting in far more work.

If you had a spine, you'd own your decision to get a divorce and let the mother of your kids down easy. Instead you want to point the finger at her to absolve yourself of any responsibility. You're no leader, and a month isn't going to change anything for you.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

Are you expecting a gold star? Apparently

It is my decision: I don't like her. I'm trying to figure this out for the kids and have been for years.

"The mother of your kids" is the equivalent of "Think of the children!"

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I don't like her.

You don't like her? Or you don't like how she is a reflection of you?

I'm pretty sure most people don't get married to people they don't like.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Or you don't like how she is a reflection of you?

the truth hurts.

yes. she's often anxious, untrusting, lashes out, and is cold.

I have definitely had some progress in this area, but not nearly enough for how long i've been at this. It's either her fault or mine. I'm trying to figure out what other ways it could be my fault before I pull the rip cord.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That was fundamental. Yeah I can do better at each of those roles. It helps to think about each of those responsibilities as separate parallel parts of a whole

[–]part_wolf0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It is my decision: I don't like her. I'm trying to figure this out for the kids and have been for years.

Then why not own your decision? Make a plan and execute on the divorce instead of coming up with every kind of justification in the world to absolve yourself of any guilt. You might end up as the villain. Your kids might hate you for a long time.

You can either figure out how to live with your decision, regardless of the outcome, or proceed like a coward and blame your wife and everyone else if it all goes wrong.

"The mother of your kids" is the equivalent of "Think of the children!"

Look up "magnanimous" in the dictionary, dipshit. Your kids need a father that will lead them to a better life - even if that means you divorcing your wife - not a faggot who wants to blame mommy for why everything fell apart.

Or you can proceed to fuck your kids' life up with your selfish bullshit. Your call.

[–]SepeanRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You don’t know who she is. What you’re getting is miles away from the submissive, kinky girl she’d be for an alpha. Look at her at her best, when her heart is into making something happen: does she do good? That’s the level of effort she’d put into pleasing alpha.

And in all likelihood you’re going to get much of the same shit from the next girl. You’re hoping to fing a girl who appreciates beta game?

More thoughts on that here: https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/37l2q0/when_to_next_your_wife/

I also get the vibe she might be fearful-avoidant which I wrote a guide on: https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/bq3rez/handling_a_fearfulavoidant_wife/ Check it and see if it applies to her.

[–]resolutions3169 points10 points  (9 children) | Copy

Why am I the only one who thinks you should just fucking get divorced?

If you’re REALLY fit And REALLY owning your shit And REALLY your own point of origin

Fucking leave.

Everybody’s lazy ass answer is “you just didn’t lift HARD enough,” “you just didn’t own your shit OFTEN enough.”

More in your wife’s frame than you are.

YOURE the judge.

If you’re ready to leave, leave.

She doesn’t decide. You do.

[–]A-Merks-ican8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

Because all women are the same.

If he doesn't fix himself, any future relationship will eventually suffer the same fate.

[–]resolutions3166 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

True. But just because his wife doesn’t treat him well doesn’t mean someone else won’t. Otherwise, you couldn’t leave unless you wife “approved” of you.

He decides. He’s the judge.

Maybe the fact that he’s here asking is the actual red flag.

[–]Onein1024th[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

She treated me like a god before the wedding even though I was a scrawny nerd back then. I'm never getting married again. So LTRs should find something to like about me by comparison

At least that's what I'm sensing

[–]tspitsatgp4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Primarily because leaving is the easy way out. If you just pack up and quit when things get tough then you are missing out on an opportunity to make positive changes to yourself and life. You don’t learn from running away.

There can come a time when you realise that your current environment is inhibiting your growth but that comes after a fair bit of grinding. Eventually if you do leave it won’t be because your wife is x or does y but because you have decided that you no longer want to be there — that even if your wife did change that it’s not what you want anymore.

OP’s motivation to leave is in response to his wife’s behaviours, not as a result of what he truly wants.

[–]resolutions3160 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

“OP’s motivation to leave is in response to his wife’s behaviours, not as a result of what he truly wants.”

How do you know this?

You don’t. You’re projecting.

His wife isn’t some god-send to make him a better person. He doesn’t get Super Awesome Masculine Martyr Points for staying with a frigid harpy and wasting his life.

MRP doesn’t save the marriage. It NEVER saves the marriage.

MRP saves the MAN. And sometimes, that man chooses to stay married.

If he is TRULY the prize - if he’s TRULY the shit -

Why the fuck would he stay? Why would YOU?

[–]tspitsatgp1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I didn’t stay, I left, but only once I realised the diminishing returns I was getting in myself from staying. Two years of work on myself in a difficult situation and when I left I was done and happy. No anger, no regrets.

FYI > he isn’t the prize and he isn’t the shit. Exhibit A: this post.

[–]weakandsensitive4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's because we all recognize OP's full of shit. His jump to divorce is a defensive mechanism from his ego. He admits as much up top somewhere.

For example, if a guy were hot as fuck and confident in his decision, you think he'd be here asking a bunch of retards on the internet for divorce advice?

But just because his wife doesn’t treat him well doesn’t mean someone else won’t.

And that's the problem. If he doesn't actually fix his shit, whatever other relationship he gets in will be fucked too. Guy even thinks that LTRs are the solution to his problem.

[–]Smuggler-Tuek0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

He’s at mile 20 of a marathon and you’re telling him to quit. Yeah he could break it off, rest his legs, grab a beer, and run a 5k in a few days. That’s not the point though. Why quit now? When he gets to mile 20 again one day he will be no better prepared. Stay the course and do the work now because after reading his post the issue is clearly him.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Clearly me how. I'm here to learn. I'd love to hear specifics

[–]vabab81 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

You have not gone through the process of passive/active dread, conversations and main event and you just want to jump ahead right to divorce. Maybe your not the leader of your family like you think you are. If you are sooooo successful at work, why can't you replicate that at home? You need to "lead" your family. Then you need to have a conversation with your wife and explain your taking back the captain chair in the family including finances. If you refuses. Then it may come to a "main event" then comes divorce.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I took over finances ages ago. She stopped regularly checking up on anything outside of her spending budget

[–]FoxShitNasty831 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

So... What am I missing???

You need to start owning your shit weekly. Do the hard work actually lift, measure your body fat and drop your ego.

[–]Smuggler-Tuek1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

OYS. Stop arguing (reread WISNIFG). Address the loneliness issue. Your post is filled with validation seeking behavior and neediness. Stop arguing. These things are poison to your relationships, not just marriage. Fix those issues.

For the love of fuck, stop arguing.

[–]wkndatbernardus1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

I think i recognize your wife's MO; type A, demanding, opinionated. It takes a solid dude to tame one of these shrews but when you do, she can become a solid ally on your mission (you do have one, right?). Problem is, she's afraid to let you take the wheel because you haven't proven yourself capable.

When you complain about work and don't OYS at home with the kids, finances, housework, etc, you may as well be parading around in a thong carrying a rainbow flag because she sees you as a complete gaylord. This is why she's frigid. What woman gets turned on by Gary from the Ambiguously Gay Duo?

But, forget about your wife right now. Work towards moving in the direction YOU want to go, not her or anyone else. Because the relationship will improve to the degree you make yourself into a man of who you are proud.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Totally! And that's what I thought I'd get when I married her. But I'm sick of living with someone who snaps at me over the smallest imperfections as it's indicative of my failure as a man.

I don't think I have much ego, but I do want a relationship with a LITTLE grace. It makes it hard to extend her any grace when she gives none. Which turns me into a hardass that still wants to fuck.

It's an unhealthy dynamic. I do honestly wish I could fix it

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'll be 'nice' to make my points; the vets have already called you a faggot.

Consider why she treats you with contempt, and snaps at the smallest imperfections and how you respond to it. Can you imagine yourself feeling irritated and wanting to do the same with someone that hovers around you seeking validation no matter how you treat them and trying to get your attention?

Why do you give a shit about the inconsequential noise coming from her mouth? Nobody is perfect. Do you think that you are or should be? Perfect based on whose definition? I'll give you a hint - this relates to frame. Does pointing out an 'imperfection' from her frame trigger your ego, alter your mood, and whereupon you DEER? The answer is 'yes'. Do you know in your heart that you're a high value man, who is not going to be triggered by someone crabby, and who will continue enjoying his day, calmly in a good mood? The answer is 'no'.

You will have made good progress when you remain in a good mood despite her inconsequential words, when she gets upset and show her with your behaviour that you don't give a shit and you're not looking for mummy's approval or trying to make her happy. When you have made the progress, you may just ignore her silliness, tease her for it, or tell her off if she persists in being a bitch. When you've done the mental work, scolding her is likely to make a mark upon her, because she is more likely to be seeking your approval.

In any case, this isn't about her, it's about you. Don't be a dancing monkey to get her to do what you want. That's a huge covert contract. Live your life they way you want to.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"Do you think that you are or should be? Perfect based on whose definition? I'll give you a hint - this relates to frame. Does pointing out an 'imperfection' from her frame trigger your ego, alter your mood, and whereupon you DEER? The answer is 'yes'. Do you know in your heart that you're a high value man, who is not going to be triggered by someone crabby, and who will continue enjoying his day, calmly in a good mood? The answer is 'no'."

This was really helpful.

Don't be nice on account of me

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm sick of living with someone who snaps at me over the smallest imperfections

She's shit testing you and you're failing. Do you know what shit tests are? They're a test of your frame. She's testing you to see how much of a man you really are. All women do this - if you jump ship, you're gonne be facing the same thing after the honeymoon period, only with a different woman.

Passing shit tests is MRP 101. You need to read up & start putting into practice how to handle them. The better you get at handling them, the harder they get until eventually, you'll have so much frame that - not only will you'll laugh them off - you'll have her laughing with you too at the sheer ridiculousness of them.

You can't avoid shit tests - they are an integral part of every woman's nature - but you can learn how to deal with them. The unhealthy dynamic you have here is because you don't know how to. Learn that and you will fix it.

[–]part_wolf0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

she can become a solid ally on your mission (you do have one, right?).

Notice how he breezed right over this question, because he's got no mission.

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I'm putting my own money on the line to revamp a once failing business. How is that not a mission?

[–]part_wolf1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your entire purpose in life is to be some kind of messiah for this busted ass business? Is your career your only mission in life?

[–]slappysq0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

1x body weight is weeeeeeeak for BP, DL, and SQ, and pretty strong for OHP. Stop fucking dabbling. You're in quarantine so the fuck what? A full power rack and weights on Amazon is $800 and put it in your garage. Get to fucking work faggot.

[–]iwillruletheworldkjh0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

So you ended up in another girls bed and you feel great for it while being married. Damn so cool aren't you? /s Beside that, yeah I think you should divorce, there's literally nothing that you get from staying there. Also I think that girls who only had 1 partner think the other grass is always greener, and that makes her treat you bad. Does she had depression?

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Well I kinda got to the top steps of dread and had no reason to fear the relationship ending so... I stopped caring?

No but she has anxiety, mostly because she's been trying to be captain for 9 years

I was a total faggot for 6 of those years

[–]iwillruletheworldkjh-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well, after trying everything with no appreciable result, I would go against basically every tactic suggested here and have a real talk, where you really tell her what you think about you two. That could spark the human side of her, if she's receptive and cares. If it doesn't, well you tried and there's nothing more you can do, she's basically pushing you to either suck it up or divorce. I highly doubt that lifting more weights will be the key for changing your marriage. There are lot of spergs here yk

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

We fight more than anything else.

What is this we fight?

As in she fights with you and you get suckered in or you choose to fight with her for whatever reason?

Either way, sounds like a you problem.

I am now CEO of a company with 20 employees. This company is going through growing pains, especially now with the virus, but I have made good headway. Q4 was our best quarter since I joined.

lol. so that's supposed to be a humblebrag right?

what I learned is:

  1. It's not even your own company.
  2. It's not even successful (e.g. "Growing pains").
  3. If it were successful, you seem like the type of guy who'd talk in terms of revenue, profits, or margin. Since you didn't, I assume they're all negative and would tell the full story of this 20 person company you're the CEO of.

Clearly you're trying to fuck other women. So let me ask you, if you're such hot shit...

We just went on vacation and I was one of the best looking guys at the resort.

... how come you actually fuck? Are you going to come to MRP and tell us that attractive married men don't have sex? What makes you think either of those women would've fucked you if you weren't married?

And I'm pretty sure you haven't fucker other women because, well, you seem like the type of guy who would've written it out.

You've been at this for 3 years? There are guys who've done more than 3 months (shoutout to /u/part_wolf).

[–]Onein1024th[S] -3 points-2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I do own the company, it's a fixer upper just becoming profitable, and I do f-close when the occasion presents itself though I don't sell it out.

Next

[–]AlohaMaui8080 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You skipped the first question bub.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Her, she, she. She She. She.

Mission. Frame.

WTF. Whose life is this again ?

What on earth do you say about allowing someone else to control you enough, by operating in their frame, that you ignore your mission ? You happiness ? That you base your emotional stability on the whims of others ?

To what edge of the earth do you travel to only realize your mission is profoundly in front of you

[–]vabab80 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Any updates?

[–]Onein1024th[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm posting one in OYS this afternoon.

[–]ManguZa-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

She's afraid about something, maybe linked to her past? Find what it is and you'll have an opening.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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