[Q4BP] Question for those who think women put more effort into their appearance.

flamingoinghome · 2021-05-19T12:41:35+00:00

I'd hardly call this a good-faith question, but....

It's not "cheating"--looks are looks. No one looks 100% the same 100% of the time, if only because people must usually be clothed, but are sometimes naked. You keep assuming that people who talk about makeup or whatever are against men using similar techniques, but speaking for myself, I am not.

At least, I assume this is about makeup. Although you also mention hair.

Funny thing: men on PPD often complain that the traditionally feminine dating role is easier, and they envy it. The traditionally feminine dating role is to get dolled up and act flirty. Yet these same men are utterly horrified at the suggestion that they themselves get dolled up and act flirty.

Novadina · 2021-05-19T17:28:06+00:00

Why would you think it’s “cheating” to put effort into looking good?? Is putting effort in anything else cheating? Are people who study for tests cheating? Are people who work hard at their job to advance their career cheating?

And why would you assume it doesn’t result in looking like that day to day? Many of my effort is my daily appearance, I don’t shave my head or something on some days... You are saying someone’s “real” appearance is how they look if they are lazy slobs, and it’s fake if they aren’t? That makes no sense. If someone wears flattering clothes for their body type, that’s not the real them? The only real thing would be going naked, though??

Here’s some effort I have put into my appearance, men could equally benefit from most of these things:

Work out at the gym. Have active hobbies.
Eat healthy. Learn to cook.
Learn about clothing styles that look flattering on my shape.
Alter my clothes. Since my body shape is not “average” nothing fits right or looks good. Altering them makes it look less like a potato sack.
Wear clothing accessories that help my shape. For example, belts on tunics or dresses help define my waist, which tends to get hidden by my bust.
Get braces.
Go to a dermatologist and learn about how to use skin care.
Shower, brush, floss, keep clean and smelling nice.
Exfoliate in the shower. Use lotion in dry seasons.
Use sunscreen.
Learn how to take care of curly hair. It requires different washing and styling than straight hair and looks sooo much better when properly done. Find a stylist who knows how to cut curly hair.
Stop coloring my hair since I needed to bleach it for color to show and it makes it unhealthy and dried out. Grow my hair longer once it’s healthy. Even with the gray streaks it looks better than being unhealthy.
Pluck my eyebrows a bit so they aren’t too unruly looking. Shave parts of my body.
Get medical care for any health issues that have appearance side effects. (Or even things like removing ugly moles, plastic surgery to remove birth defects etc.)
Take care of my nails and cuticles so they are neat and clean.

Maybe you think that being a naked fat slob with zero care for your appearance is the “real” you, but if that’s true that sounds like a personal problem. I want to look good, my husband likes it, I like it, looking professional and put together helps my career, and I think this is the real me.

Many men don’t even consider the health of their hair, skin, and nails, or how clothes look on them. Women are taught from a young age that we are valued mostly for our appearance, so of course we put more effort into it.

Flightlessbirbz · 2021-05-19T14:58:24+00:00

Where would you draw the line on taking care of one’s appearance vs. “cheating”? I’m assuming you’re talking about makeup, but for example, removing body and facial hair is technically misleading because most women have hair on their legs and pits, and most men naturally grow long scruffy beards. Having a beard can be misleading too, if it’s covering a weak chin, or bangs might cover a big forehead, etc. Everyone would look homeless if they didn’t “cheat” a bit.

Honestly, I think most men would benefit from a little more “cheating.” Gay men tend to look better than straight men because they know the need to in order to attract a man, and because they aren’t concerned about seeming “gay.” This doesn’t mean wearing makeup or dressing feminine, it means being in good shape, caring for one’s skin, and choosing a flattering haircut and clothing.

WestsideMoonWalker · 2021-05-19T09:10:49+00:00

This might be one of the dumbest fucking gotcha questions I've seen on this sub.

The vast majority of men have absolute dogshit sense of style, dress blandly, and look down on being fashion-forward. Women largely have different attitudes towards fashion and styling. That's all it is about.

Similarly, why don't you think that men who learn to approach, to seduce and to lie to women aren't putting efforts into being more attractive? Or men who put efforts in their career? What is this idea that men are supposed to fake their whole face and hair in order to be as attractive as women, who told you that men should have had it equivalent?

Do you not understand that appearance = physical appearance when people say "women put more effort into their appearance"? lmao. You can't just code switch from "appearance" to "attractive". That's not how this works.

Mustbeaight · 2021-05-19T12:09:50+00:00

Women think doing makeup equates to actually going to the gym to lift, getting your game and finances right.. which are pretty much permanent changes... makeup is a facade.. it’s removable in 5 seconds... money isn’t removable in 5seconds, the muscles ain’t removable in 5 seconds, the game ain’t removable in 5 sec..

NarniaFox · 2021-05-19T09:06:27+00:00

Because people talk about appearance and not behavior. Also if you need a proof that women put more time into it:

Findings released by GfK from a 22-country survey show that women spend an average of almost five hours a week on personal grooming (bathing, shaving, dressing, hair, make-up), while men spend just over three hours.

I can't find the original study but here's the article: https://www.gfk.com/press/people-average-4-hours-a-week-on-personal-grooming-what-motivates-them-2

Pola_Lita · 2021-05-19T09:47:43+00:00

A woman's value has been historically calculated based on her fertility and physical appearance. A man's, on his personal power - financial, political, physical strength. It's dumb but it's not news. It's changing too, good thing.

I can't tell if you're complaining or explaining or what.

PM_ME_ZED_BARA · 2021-05-19T09:49:34+00:00

Why are you pretending that cheating in order to appear more attractive is putting effort into actually being more attractive? If you don't look like that day to day there's no point.

I don't consider makeups as cheating. Since putting on makeup requires time, care, and experience and since makeup costs money, I consider using makeup an act of putting effort. In my mind, putting on makeup is not that different from putting on nice and stylish clothes.

Similarly, why don't you think that men who learn to approach, to seduce and to lie to women aren't putting efforts into being more attractive?

Now, we are talking about putting effort into being more attractive, unlike the previous paragraph where you talk about putting effort into appearance. That's some difference but I guess it does not matter here. I think men learning to approach and seduce are putting effort, as it requires time.

Or men who put efforts in their career?

Men who put efforts into their careers do not necessarily or always do so in an effort to be more attractive. Therefore, I don't count 100% of efforts into their career as efforts into being more attractive.

What is this idea that men are supposed to fake their whole face and hair in order to be as attractive as women, who told you that men should have had it equivalent?

Men should do whatever they want but they must deal with consequences. If you are ugly and don't put efforts into improving that, then you have only yourselves to blame if you attract no one or if you only attract ugly people. The same goes for women.

Don't you notice that women get obsessed with their appearance but men get obsessed with their behavior and status around you?

I've notice that both women and men around me get obsessed with appearance, behavior, and status in various different degrees. While I can observe some gender-based difference in this obsession, I am not sure if this out-group difference is statistically greater than in-group difference.

Mimoxs · 2021-05-19T10:38:32+00:00

If you don't look like that day to day there's no point.

The point is attracting people and being treated better and women wouldn't have done it for ~4000 years if it didn't work lol

Orange_Paisley · 2021-05-19T16:49:04+00:00

I hike 2-3 hours most days to maintain my weight - is that cheating? I used to go to the gym to swim and use weights (stopped during Covid) - is that cheating? I rarely wear makeup at all unless it is for a special event or executive business function but when I do it’s because I am going for a more polished look, not because I am trying to look like Miss America. Some men on PPD seem to think that all women yearn to be Instagram influencers or something. They ignore the myriad women who are just going about our lives.

Eastuss · 2021-05-19T11:39:34+00:00

Pretty much all women put effort into their appearance. For better or worse.

A minority of deeply weird spergs specifically put effort into learning how to lie to women.

Mrs_Drgree · 2021-05-19T09:23:02+00:00

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BarestBranch · 2021-05-19T11:33:09+00:00

Putting on make-up, dressing well, taking good pictures, taking care of your skin/hair, etc. are all ways of making sure you present well. It's effort, calling it "cheating" is nonsensical. Women are judged far more harshly on their appearance and how they outwardly present themselves so it makes sense that they put in more effort.

geyejoe7 · 2021-05-19T12:35:06+00:00

Why are you pretending that cheating in order to appear more attractive is putting effort into actually being more attractive? If you don't look like that day to day there's no point.

Because it's active effort to look better. Yes, it's cheating. But it's not easy to do it EVERY day EVERY time you go outside, or even when you're just chilling at home. There is a point, it shows that you're trying to make yourself better looking any way you can.

Similarly, why don't you think that men who learn to approach, to seduce and to lie to women aren't putting efforts into being more attractive?

If you're referring to pick up artists, it's because their methods are based on nothing and most don't work. Because, surprise, women are individuals, and these manipulative tactics don't work on them most of the time.

Or men who put efforts in their career?

That is trying... Because ambition is sexy to most women.

What is this idea that men are supposed to fake their whole face and hair in order to be as attractive as women, who told you that men should have had it equivalent?

Who said this? And btw, using skin care products, grooming well and getting haircuts twice a month isn't "faking it", it's effort.

Don't you notice that women get obsessed with their appearance but men get obsessed with their behavior and status around you?

I do. But most men I see ever do, is MAYBE go to the gym and nothing else. Never heard of skin or hair products... Or how to dress properly.

Twinseo09 · 2021-05-19T13:13:43+00:00

The definition of effort can either mean a vigorous attempt or determined attempt. It has nothing to do with if it’s fake or natural. The question is how much time/money is put into your appearance and that equals effort. This is fucking stupid.

sse23 · 2021-05-19T13:25:25+00:00

It's not cheating though. By that logic anything else than us going around naked all the time would be cheating on appearances.

The obsession comes from what is considered positive traits for the two genders. It's really not that strange. You focus on an enhance your strenghts while covering or avoiding to show your weakness.

catfishchapter · 2021-05-19T14:24:49+00:00

Why are you only talking about make-up?

Make up gets removed at the end of the day when she is with her partner.
Not every woman you see is cake faced
The point of makeup is enhance your already natural features and many women apply make up in this regard

Women 100% put more effort into appearing well. If she is successful that's another topic, but self care, spa treatments etc, are predominantly targetted and consumed by women.

SaBahRub · 2021-05-19T14:44:29+00:00

Life is competitive. I don’t blame either women for using cosmetics or men for lying — that’s just logic and common sense

What I will continue to disdain is people of either gender denying what they do. Yes, even if you are wearing cosmetics mainly to impress other women, it’s still within the standard to make you more attractive to men, not women — you’re not going to fuck women

MyDogLovesCorn · 2021-05-19T16:02:12+00:00

No offense, but it's just true. Women by and large put more effort into their physical appearance than men. Men go to the gym to sculpt muscles? Cool, women are doing that too. I would say these days, at least 1/3rd of the people in the weights section are women. I feel like two decades ago, that just wasn't the case.

Now add makeup and fashion. Unlike men, they're mostly doing this to compete with eachother btw

Eastuss · 2021-05-19T18:32:39+00:00

"Why are you pretending that cheating in order to appear more attractive is putting effort into actually being more attractive?"

Because what you just described is effort.

"Similarly, why don't you think that men who learn to approach, to seduce and to lie to women aren't putting efforts into being more attractive?"

Those things aren't attractive.

"Or men who put efforts in their career? "

That's not appearance.

"What is this idea that men are supposed to fake their whole face and hair in order to be as attractive as women, who told you that men should have had it equivalent?"

No one thinks that, we just think y'all should wash your faces every day for basic hygeine.

"Don't you notice that women get obsessed with their appearance but men get obsessed with their behavior and status around you?"

No. Men hate displaying their status. They call you a gold digger if you are attracted to that.

tofucultleaded · 2021-05-19T19:59:53+00:00

The reason that women place their value on looks and men place their value on their status as you say is because of the enforced societal norms we’ve all been expected to keep up with. You can’t “fake” your appearance unless you get plastic surgery. Then it REALLY becomes part of you.

Nobody looks first date attractive every time they wake up to the time they go to sleep. People have bedhead, does that mean we shouldn’t brush our hair? People have smelly breath, so we shouldn’t use toothpaste? Healthy grooming behaviors are part of what makes people attractive to other people. Just because humans are naturally smelly and weird looking doesn’t mean they aren’t allowed to play with their appearance.

“If you don’t look like that day to day WHATS the point” and “cheating in order to appear more attractive” sounds like you’re criticizing women for wearing makeup. If you don’t like the made up look that’s fine, I just don’t know if I would want to invest in someone dumb enough to think I naturally have glittery eyelids and don’t have pores

SherbertBacon · 2021-05-21T07:58:53+00:00

Why are you pretending that cheating in order to appear more attractive is putting effort into actually being more attractive?

Why take the coward's route and hide behind connotative language to make your argument? Make-up is "cheating" as much as wearing clothes is "cheating." What a dumb usage of the word. Personally, if my gal wanted to get plastic surgery to maintain appearance, I'd be all for it. And that's as much "cheating" as you can get.

Similarly, why don't you think that men who learn to approach, to seduce and to lie to women aren't putting efforts into being more attractive?

Is there a number between 1 and 10? Nobody said men aren't putting any effort in. Women's efforts to look good are usually in the 8-10 range. Men's efforts are usually in the 3-6 range. Maybe some fraction of a percent of men do all the work to learn to seduce and approach, which would put them in the 7+ effort range. I don't get your point here.

What is this idea that men are supposed to fake their whole face and hair in order to be as attractive as women, who told you that men should have had it equivalent?

Present yourself as you see yourself. If you think yourself attractive, make efforts to be attractive. There's a reason most narcissists are highly attractive people: they visualize themselves as such and then put the effort in.

Don't you notice that women get obsessed with their appearance but men get obsessed with their behavior and status around you?

No because I'm not a weirdo who obsesses over what other people are thinking/doing all the time. I just focus on me and what I want and how to get it.

Title	[Q4BP] Question for those who think women put more effort into their appearance.
Author	Eastuss
Upvotes	0
Comments	160
Date	May 19, 2021 8:47 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ng0fv2/q4bp_question_for_those_who_think_women_put_more/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4bp-question-for-those-who-think-women-put-more.754335 https://theredarchive.com/post/754335

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