I think MGTOW is kind of hypocritical.

just_a_place · 2021-04-24T05:01:58+00:00

A MGTOW who says he wants a girl who does X is no MGTOW at all.

MGTOW are not hypocrites, you just fell for a phony that is claiming to be something that he's not. Actual men going their own way do not bother with women because the definition of that term means they have given up women. So obviously some dude that has NOT given up women is only bullshitting you.

MGTOWs are not interested in dating, maybe just sex with a prostitutes but they have no desire to have any kind of relationship with women. Their concern is with how to interact with women when they have to such as in the workplace, at home, on the streets etc. They are always suspicious of women's motives and that is why they are always talking about female nature to try and figure out if women have any nefarious agenda against their interests in non-sexual non-romantic settings. These guys do not have standards because they are not actively looking for women at all, and that is the point!

FDS and MGTOW have a lot of overlap except that FDS is just MGTOW for women who are still in denial whereas MGTOW have already admitted the truth to themselves and are attempting to move on with their lives. That's why they are very into self-improvement and self actualization and reject females. FDS are just women who are so jaded that they have already rejected males but they don't want to admit this truth to themselves and still want to pretend like they are interested in men. MGTOW freely admit that they have lost interest in women and wish to move away from females and move on with the rest of their lives on their own terms.

If you believe MGTOW are rejecting women just because of something to do with dating then you have no clue about that groups of men at all. They are not motivated by something as stupid as dating, they are motivated by the principles of self preservation and self improvement. They view women as an obstacle to peace and freedom, and they believe that infatuation with women is an addictive illusion that they must free themselves from. They do not believe women bring anything to the table, they don't think women have any worth and only present them with problems, strife, burdens, and they believe women pose an existential threat to them which is why romantic involvement is out of the question and they view their attraction to women as nothing more than a "biological imperative" of which they strive to conquer or get rid of.

MGTOW don't actually hate a whole gender, they just have the belief that there is more to life than just sex and girls or the expectations of society that men should just be cogs in the machine and drones serving their queens. MGTOW believe that the meaning of life can only be found when they are free to pursue their own opportunity to create it. And that means no women allowed in their life because women are a part of the problem in that women are the main illusion in life that keeps them from being truly free and happy. MGTOW reject women because they very honestly believe they are much happier without them.

So of course MGTOW doesn't make any sense to you because you do not understand what MGTOW is in the first place. You sound like you are completely conflating MGTOW with incels now.

This entire post you made has nothing to do with MGTOW at all.

Teflon08191 · 2021-04-23T21:36:04+00:00

so here MGTOW doesn't really make any sense to, you hate on women for having a high standard but you also have one ( virgin housewives girls )

The source of your confusion appears to be your misunderstanding of what MGTOW is. MGTOW men don't want housewives, virgin or otherwise.

SUEDE2BLACK · 2021-04-24T05:16:45+00:00

MGTOW: men going their own way not subcuming to societal pressures,standards and norms.Do not marry, do not cohabitate, do not impregnate,or enter into any relationship with women that leave a man legally liable.

When I tell people I will never marry or impregnate a woman here comes all the shame and incel talk.

When I say if I choose to have children it will be through surrogacy or adoption.Im wierd and hurt.

But ask those people what value does marriage bring to me that outweighs the risk.Ill wait.

All they will say is NAWALT.

How do I know which women won't divorce me, which women won't make false charges on me, which women won't sue me for alimony, which women won't take me to the cleaners for child support,which women won't stop being intimate 2 years into the marriage, which women won't cheat, even worst get pregnant by another man.

The answer is I can't know that and it's not worth the risk to me to find out.

I have dated and had long term relationships lasting years,women brought very little if any real value to my life certainly not enough to justify taking the risk involved with marriage and chilldren.

Sex is nice when you can keep her happy and content enough to get it.But when your not around women your desire for sex decreces significantly.

Massages are nice when she's not in a mood,ypu don't need a marriage license for that,and men give better massages.

I don't need a woman to cook or clean I pay people for that.

I recently ended a long term relationship of several years.Im not "hurt" because I accept and understand female nature. I owe no alimony or child support we had some good years and a clean break.I actually miss my ex,the funny thing is I don't even know why.

I have been trying to figure it out maybe its the sex which wasn't that great towards the end.I don't even know if I even miss her maybe the failure of the relationship is a blow to my ego....It's like the universe is saying you aren't good enough for a woman who knows I can't think of a logical reason to miss her.

Either way if I give someone literally everything I have to give and it's not enough what else is there.I spent a quarter million USD on my ex in financial terms not even including my time and energy.and apparently she left me over my DMs to another woman.GTFOH.Im rich women talk to me but who have I held down cared for and supported for almost a decade.

If there's a creature so illogical and insecure they would walk away from that, I'm out I want nothing to do with them.Women are a bad investment for most men.

My life really hasn't changed with her gone other than I don't have another person to manage.

I was MGTOW long before it was a thing I grew up watching to many men ruined and destroyed by women,that would have been better off alone unfortunately most men are raised and trained by the system to get a woman.

When I was young my peers where chasing pussy they measured their worth by it. I chased knowledge education and financial literacy...I wasn't even interested in women then one found me and I got a taste it was good and I got hooked like on a drug.

But society tells us it's ok and encourages men to be addicted to women simping for them, catering to them working and slaving for them, dying for them buying them blood diamonds, clearing the forest to build them houses.

Women are an addictive drug for men they exude sexuality it's nature's way of ensuring procreation."life will find away". But just like heroin being addicted to women will be most men's downfall.

It's an unfortunate curse of man to find women attractive and I actually envy gay men,in modern times with modern women it serves no real pourpose for a man to be attracted to women.

If all the men on Earth lost interest in women society would be so much more advanced by now less wars less waste less distraction more money invested in science and technology no starving children in the streets.

Unfortunately no one is having this conversation except religious groups that's why historically they always separated man and women.

I don't hate women, Im indifferent to them. I don't care if a woman wants to be a CEO, the President or God they can break glass ceilings untill we run out of sand for all I care.

I'm MGTOW I have left the system my money and time will go to advancing civilization getting humanity of fossil fuels developing clean energy sources breaking barriers with AI, VR and robotics because thats the future.

Humans are to flawed to be suitable companions artificial intelligence us the answer because I do believe humans are social creatures not meant to be alone tats why men get dogs and old ladies get cats but we really are supposed to have a human companion but the system is broken flawed corrupted science can fix things and steady the course.

Ex Machina had the right idea but once again the narrative robots are evil so we shoukdnt create them for companionship no humans are evil so we shouldn't be with them for companionship.

Like it or not it's coming men are walking away abd when we put more of out collective minds and money together it will be a tide that's going to wash the corruption away.

I bet Jeff Bezzos wishes he had a beautiful loyal perfect robotic companion instead of a woman.

Yes there are angry incels and red pills orbiting amongst the MGTOW sphere but true MGTOW has nothing to do with hate or women are bad,a scorpion isn't bad it's just a scorpion be cautious don't step on it,go your own way.

thatguyfromrichmond · 2021-04-23T22:00:47+00:00

Mgtow is realizing the women they can get are not worth the effort, it is very valuable tool for the bottom 50%~ of men

flapperfemmefatale · 2021-04-24T01:35:56+00:00

Hypocritical or not, they're doing everyone else a favor.

TheJim66 · 2021-04-23T21:39:13+00:00

then says he wants a girl that is a virgin who isn't experienced with men will cook, clean the house raise the kids, which guess what is also a very rare % of the female population ( and also looks which make it even rarer)

Notice how easy all of these standards are to achieve? Were the standards the women gave, that easy?

Also,most men (don't know about the dude on the video) don't want only virgins. They want low n chicks.

I think you kinda forgot what you wanted to say on point 2 so I don't know about it.

Anyway, MGTOWs aren't making any demands ,they are saying "what you are offering isn't worth the effort I would have to put so I would rather not to".And really most of their standards are really basic easy to achieve standards.Men are very flexible on looks and even the personality they will put up with. Just don't cheat , deadbedroom or divorce rape them.

for example, if you asked a guy about his standards he will say something like this ( sorry the video is from the shithole FDS but thought it made a good point) also notice the pattern between how mgotw guys and FDS users think https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/k14w8t/scrote_vs_king/

Here is the difference:

MGTOWS: Yeah that's a shit deal I'm not taking it.

FDS: I want a deal I can't afford so I'm gonna raise my price even higher while offering less.

superlurkage · 2021-04-23T22:05:27+00:00

You can’t “go your own way” while obsessing over the thing you’re supposed to have left behind

Bandit174 · 2021-04-23T21:28:55+00:00

I'm not interested in defending MGTOW, its always seemed kinda cringey to me. However....

so in conclusion girls and guys are both searching for things that they cant get ( sex for men, and commitment from high-value men for women )

Men want sex and relationships from attractive women.

Women want sex and relationships from attractive men.

The difference is women can get sex from hot men and easily get relationships with their looksmatch.

The average man does not typically get sex or relationships from hot women and will still have to try and generally outearn their looksmatch for relationships.

So neither gets their ideal but women get a lot closer to it than men do.

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mechanical_elves · 2021-04-23T21:28:12+00:00

but then says he wants a girl that is a virgin who isn't experienced with men will cook, clean the house raise the kids

that isn't really typical of mgtow though

women being promiscuous, not cleaning, not cooking and so on are reasons provided (among many others) to not MARRY a woman. That isn't necessarily the only possible role.

Maybe you could just be a FWB with her or something less serious -- and that's where the observations that women have unrealistically high standards for those kinds of relationships come in.

they complain about girls wanting good looking men but they never tried to improve their looks

this is just an assumption that probably wouldn't bear out as truth. How many people do you think actually NEVER tried to improve their looks?

your points are just sloppy and not really thought out.

Stevefr0mYellowstone · 2021-04-23T22:38:55+00:00

First off, asking us to watch an hour video for this post is too much. I didn't bother watching the Better Bachelor video, although I am very familiar with him. I did watch the second video from the FDS sub.

Both men and women are allowed to have standards. The big question is whether you are of high enough value to warrant those standars. I'm not saying a 5 feet 6 guy asking for a supermodel doesn't have standards that are too high; he absolutely does. But I think by and large there is more of a disconnect for women when it comes to standards than there are for men. Women are far, far harsher on men's looks than the other way around. Women are the gender where there's endless memes over the lengthy list of requirements they have for guys. And so on.

More importantly, look at the red pill ideology vs. the FDS ideology. The red pill ideology is all about teaching men the uncomfortable truths, getting them to change their mindset and work on improving themselves so they can get the results they want. The FDS mindset is to keep themselves blue pilled and elevate their standards even higher, under the delusion that it will get them a higher value male. It teaches women that they don't need to improve themselves, just their standards.

Is there a certain level of hypocrisy in the MGTOW community? I'd say to a certain extent. I think its because of incels and black pillers becoming such a large percentage of the community. The guy who truly is a MGTOW in the way it was intended, isn't posting on the internet about how much women suck and how unfair things are. Yet that's practically all that the MGTOW sub is. That true MGTOW is out there enjoying his life in a manner where relationships with women has nothing to do with his happiness. Those guys who are whining excessively online and aren't doing anything to improve themselves may claim to be within the MGTOW community but are in reality incel and black pill losers who do nothing but complain.

ni406nja · 2021-04-24T02:20:33+00:00

MGTOW isn't the male version of feminism, where it would be mostly about men gaining benefits by bringing women down, it literally means men going their own way. The red pill on the other hand isn't telling men to sit on the couch and expext chicks to come crawling to them, the red pill is telling men how to become high value male alphas that women are attracted to in order to get high quality women that they are attracted to.

06534956 · 2021-04-24T00:15:50+00:00

I’m happy they are going their own way. Nothing is more repulsive to me (as a semi-traditional, gender role conforming, young, and attractive) woman than a man who hates women.

I can see the faults in men, no doubt about it, and especially when dating men in my same generation. However, I don’t hate them. I’m not mad at them. I simply adjusted myself and changed my own standards.

I would prefer if men spent their 20s and 30s focused on their careers and building themselves, to be honest. Use that testosterone to build up a career, house, car, healthy body and mind, and by that point... all you need is a wife, if you want one. You can take care of her and build a family and grow from there.

I personally enjoy dating, I think it’s a ton of fun. But for me, as a young and attractive and vibrant woman, there is no way I could consider a serious relationship with a man unless he had his life completely together. So I date older men, and stay away from dating apps.

2021-04-24T14:27:52+00:00

I'm pretty sure you can find people who have attached themselves to that label who are hypocrites, but that has more to do with them as individuals than them attaching themselves to that label.

I'm MGTOW. To me it's entirely a cost/benefit thing. I generally stick to sex and avoid the rest.

I think a lot of men go MGTOW because they did the relationship thing once or twice and are through with it. Those who missed out don't want leftovers

LillthOfBabylon · 2021-04-23T22:09:35+00:00

KIND OF?

The only 2 things make MGTOW different from radical feminist. 1. Gender 2. Not being useful pawns for the elites.

Other than that, they're two sides of the same shitty victim complex coin.

Jakes1967 · 2021-04-24T17:40:32+00:00

I think MGTOW is kind of hypocritical.

Let's correct this; A MGTOW is being kind of hypocritical.

Firstly MGTOW is a philosophy, not a movement etc., so each MGTOW is following his own version of the philosophy

Thus if you have a problem with a MGTOW, take it up with the MGTOW involved, there's no hive mind.

Mossimo5 · 2021-04-24T20:16:54+00:00

Like any movement, there are going to be broad differences of belief amongst the members. Take feminism for example. There a feminists that want equality amongst the sexes, and there are feminists that are just hateful misandrist. This isn't to say it's limited to feminism. Far from it. This applies to all groups and belief systems. There are Christians that are lovely people, and there are Christians that will harass you for not believing the things they do. There are atheists that are totally nice people, and there are atheists that take pure joy in shattering the belief systems of others just to be mean because it makes them feel better. My point here is not to single out any one group or philosophy, but to demonstrate that ALL systems of belief have good and bad actors. When it comes to MGTOW, there are those who do it because the juice just isn't worth the squeeze and there are those who join it because they are hateful misogynists. And there are many who fall in between. There are going to br hypocrites in the MGTOW movement and there are going to be people who are just fed up with dating and social dynamics and want to focus on their own happiness above all else. The real problem is, amongst all movements (not just MGTOW), the most vocal members on each extreme end are the ones that get the most attention and stir the pot the most. In regards to that specific video, I didn't get any hypocrisy from him. I just saw a guy who wanted a very traditional woman, but those are super rare and hard to find (mostly due to economic realities of our current day and age - not many can afford a stay at home spouse any more) so instead he peaced out. But your mileage may vary I suppose.

BigDudBoy · 2021-04-25T22:11:56+00:00

The "ideal wife" for a MGTOW or mgtow-leaning guy has a whole list of requirements to fit because they view any women who don't fit those requirements as too dangerous to get into a relationship with. The second part is that the chances of finding a woman who fits all those requirements is so low that she may as well not exist.

redback-spider · 2021-04-28T22:36:07+00:00

excuse my post if it's not arranged in a good way I am not good at arranging thoughts

Yes that is true, you seem to mix up a lot, you say man should look better, with hair, well that is a advantage of the female nature they don't care to much on average about that. If Hair loss would be very important to women they would not date and marry older guys.

You seem to search for equality in things, but attraction is asymetrical.

As example a very self confident women probaly is LESS attractive at best the same and maybe for something quick slightly more attractive, but overall especially for long term relationship makes her less attractive.

So that burder of performance falls on man, on the other hand they don't have to be this metrosexual hair nurterer you ask them, too.

Apperently height is the only thing that is basically unnegotionable for the most part, which if you don't have it is hard to change. So the major "look" thing for man is more or less not changable.

Then you say man and women sleep around, here again you equate 2 things when a women sleeps with another man and a man does it, it's not the same. Because man can have emotionless sex, while on average women mostly can't. So if in a relationship the women sleeps with another man either she does that out of revenge or because she lost respekt and love from their man. It's 99.999% sure over and she will end it.

If the man sleeps with another women and the women don't either finds out or accepts it in >50% of the cases it does not matter.

Then you say that MGTOW want virgins, that's not even fully true for red pillers but not for MGTOW, too. That would be a very nische oppinion of MGTOW.

Sure they might have red pill rage and hate on women, but not because they search a virgin, they already decided to not cohabitate, some are monks some might do short term relationships and some maybe long term but without cohabitation and usually without children, for none of those do you need a virgin.

That's so far the points I remembered the most from your post.

Ok I get your confusion with Better Bachelor, he is no good representation of MGTOW he is a mixture between a traditionalist and MGTOW: https://www.reddit.com/user/redback-spider/comments/kvfvbi/better_bachelor_a_message_to_men_about/ https://www.reddit.com/user/redback-spider/comments/kmdarp/better_bachelor_this_guy_goes_on_100_dates_was_it/ https://www.reddit.com/user/redback-spider/comments/kjy7fc/better_bachelor_hes_my_rock_he_saved_me_but_i/ https://www.reddit.com/user/redback-spider/comments/kiza7b/why_is_the_biggest_manosphere_channel_it_seems/ https://www.reddit.com/user/redback-spider/comments/khjav1/better_bachelor_women_are_starting_to_worry_where/

I don't know why but I get triggered by BB first of all he says that he don't wants to cohabitate and marry, yet he doesn't use the label that fit's his description MGTOW, why not sure money reasons? Or some twisted I want to be MGTOW for me but all or many other man should marry, because it's "better for society".

So just don't use him as a good representation for MGTOW. Most of the inconsistancie come from things that have nothing to do with MGTOW.

jake898zo · 2021-04-24T00:28:19+00:00

"notice how the guy is short, not really attractive but still said some standards that are considered very high"

yes, people are allowed to be attracted to whatever they want. I don't understand why men don't get this.

100L-RBF · 2021-04-24T09:27:34+00:00

What is this mgtow I keep hearing about? I'm just not interested in marriage, not some internet club.

Title	I think MGTOW is kind of hypocritical.
Author	jake898zo
Upvotes	13
Comments	279
Date	April 23, 2021 9:16 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/mx5awy/i_think_mgtow_is_kind_of_hypocritical/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/i-think-mgtow-is-kind-of-hypocritical.761538 https://theredarchive.com/post/761538

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