women HAVE to be hypergamous because of the desire to submit

wtknight · 2021-06-01T19:27:57+00:00

Flaired CMV as this is an affirmative claim.

NockerJoe · 2021-06-01T18:29:34+00:00

Or, and I can just float this out there, you can improve yourself to not be crazy instead of demanding everyone else change.

Indis96 · 2021-06-01T20:00:13+00:00

I see a lot of people talking about how female hypergamy needs to stop and women need to go for guys “on their level.” But it’s like you guys fail to realize that hypergamy isn’t an active choice but rather natural instinct.

Obviously not speaking for all women, but me and a lot of others are submissive. Simply put, why would I submit to someone who is equal or lesser than me? By definition you cannot submit to someone who is less than your superior. If I perceive you as my equal I would have no reason to submit to you.

When I was dating men I perceived either subconsciously or consciously to be lesser than me, the relationship was always strained for lack of a better word, because being unable to submit made me unhappy overall.

HOLY SHIT A woman herself admitting that she is hypergamous and admits submission is important?

Wow.

Yes Hypergamous is seemed as ''toxic'' excuses coming from a man if a guy states women are hypergamous.

But Hypergamy plays a very important role, I would say 95%+ Of women are hypergamous even if they sub-conciously dont think that they are.

Hell the stats of 20% of men getting laid with 80% of the women on Tinder should be enough proof that if you put hyergamy in an environment that breeds/flourishes, women will act on their natural instincts to always choose the best out of their pool of guys, yet people STILL want to deny this FACT & REALITY!

HyperGamy is there for a reason, Women (The majority like 95%+) Do not date guys down.

They either are happy with dating on their social level (Same looks/Salary, etc.) Their once high standards had to be brought down to meet expectations/reality.

Or if they can, majority will try to date a man of upper social class to them.Most men on the other hand, have no problem in dating down if the chick is ''hot''

Personal story of mine that proved Hypergamy exists for my reality:

I know this particular women who has a good paying job in France (Makes 5 grand a month which is a good salary)

Over the years that ive Known her, each time she would break up with her current bf every year as if it was a tradition of some sort, she states that he wasnt ''good enough''. But never gave me a clear reasoning as to why, and me being Blue pilled asf back then, never took the hints either...

At that time I was un-aware and just thought that maybe the dude was a cunt/did something wrong, turns out, those guys she dated back then were just ''socially'' below her each time she got promoted and that salary started increasing, she would seek out other guys that were better. Because > Hypergamy.

Fast foward to current day, shes dating an investment dude that literally makes bank and she ADMITTED to me a while back, that she can never again date guys that are below her earning/social status. Clear example of Hypergamous behaviour right there!

Meaning if a guy wants a shot to date her, he has to earn just as much>More then her current salary, either that, or if a guy is ''less socially on par'' then her, he would have to tick pretty much every single box in her mind for her to look by pass that...

Sad but true. Hypergamy is well and truly alive... Equality between men and women doesnt exist, never does and never will. sorry folks...

InitialArgument1662 · 2021-06-01T20:51:13+00:00

I think for most women, it’s less about needing a man they can “submit” to, and more about needing a man they can respect. If there’s no respect, there’s no relationship, and certainly no sexual attraction.

It’s hard to respect a man who has no steady employment history, no goals, no passions, no unique or interesting hobbies (aside from video games and porn), or one who is uncultured, unintelligent, or any number of other attributes that makes one dull.

And if you’re submissive by nature, of course you’re not going to feel the desire to “submit” to a NEET living on welfare. If the man isn’t independent already, he can’t expect a woman to want to depend on him. If she’s looking for a traditional relationship, he needs to fulfill the requirements of a provider and be the kind of man a child would want as a father. It’s hard to imagine going through 9 months of pregnancy followed by a painful birthing process and the exhaustion of motherhood when the man you’re with isn’t someone you can respect or rely on.

Men here really love to criticize women for being “hypergamous” or that they’re just looking for a “beta bucks”, but then turn around and criticize single mothers because they chose to procreate with the type of men who become the stereotype of a deadbeat dad. No matter what we choose, we are either too picky, too materialistic, or too stupid when choosing a mate. That’s why women shouldn’t feel selfish or guilty for saying they want a man who does more than sweep the floors at WalMart. Submissive or not, no woman wants to have the stress of being both the breadwinner and the caretaker.

Sigma1979 · 2021-06-01T18:31:15+00:00

It's not Red Pillers who disagree with you, it's feminists who lie about that who disagree with you. Redpillers accept hypergamy is part of female nature, which is why red pillers look to improve themselves rather than trying to get you to turn off your natural instincts.

"Watch what women do, not listen to what they say"

"Attraction can't be negotiated"

medlabunicorn · 2021-06-01T18:54:45+00:00

Any time you see a big dog roll on his back to entice a shy little dog to play, you see how someone bigger and better can submit to someone smaller and afraid. There are allll kinds of games one can play in the bedroom, regardless of who makes the most money, and relationships almost never have the degree of power differential as a big dog and small dog.

In addition, power differentials can seem quite sexy in fiction, but almost never are in real life. It’s better to have a partner who’s your equal.

PurplePill_Throwaway · 2021-06-01T18:36:16+00:00

As a woman who likes to be submissive, I disagree. You can still submit to someone “on your level.” Dating your “equal” does not mean the man cannot dominate. It’s all about your dynamic and who takes charge in the relationship.

Also, it’s not healthy to consider yourself to be inferior to your partner just because you’re submissive. That is NOT what submission means.

CodeCody23 · 2021-06-01T18:32:38+00:00

Both men and women don’t seriously date people they consider below them. The controversy of hypergamy stems from the perceived lack of loyalty. In which case, if there is nothing keeping a hypergamous woman from looking elsewhere, why would a man commit?

NTRollin · 2021-06-01T18:50:05+00:00

I see a lot of people talking about how female hypergamy needs to stop

As a rule of thumb anyone who says that is not worth listening to

cowfishAreReal · 2021-06-01T18:31:21+00:00

Or we can end the submission bs. I don't know where you live, or whats your age range but literally none of the women I know want that

ohheyhi99 · 2021-06-01T18:57:07+00:00

I don’t believe in hypergamy. I think people want the most validation they can get.

2021-06-01T19:22:04+00:00

And men HAVE to ditch their partners for younger women after a certain age. It’s only natural, after all. When you older he may still be with you, you just won’t get the love you deserve.

/s

wtknight · 2021-06-01T20:43:23+00:00

[removed]

Phoesilvle · 2021-06-01T18:55:33+00:00

I feel a bit like an circle seeing a square for the first time. Can some of you submissive women describe to me, what 'being submissive' is like for you?

I don't think I've ever experienced it nor do I know any woman who describes herself as submissive.

Timmy721123 · 2021-06-01T18:38:04+00:00

Women have to have high standards so evolution works.

f1vepointoh · 2021-06-01T18:33:52+00:00

First of all nobody wants or needs hypergamy to stop thats not at all what mgtow and redpill guys are saying . Maybe incels say that but certainly not us. We believe in redpill because we believe in personal responsibility and ownership of ones life. Women just refuse to admit its there and try to sell other beta males into the fact that they do accept men of lower status and looks regardless of what evidence shows. SURE women give lesser men chances all the time but it never works because lesser men can never get a woman to swoon over him. Thats why women need to date up and men need to become the best versions of themselves to attract those women. If yall are betas become alphas. Men shouldnt marry if they were ever crazy enough to do so till they are in their 30s because the value they aquired through their 20s allow them to get the best partner in their 30s.

ArgueLater · 2021-06-01T18:42:48+00:00

The issue is not hypergamy existing, it's the gaslighting around it.

Ofc hypergamy needs to exist, how else would evolution work? The majority of babies being made by the better gene males is essential, and this has to be the way women work.

But many women don't admit it, or acknowledge how hard it can be on men with any amount of empathy.

I know plenty of guys who aren't attracted to fat girls and openly acknowledge that's really gotta suck and do their best not to shit on them anymore than life already has. It'd be nice to see women have this level of realism and empathy in return.

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Smoogs2 · 2021-06-01T18:51:00+00:00

how female hypergamy needs to stop

This is an incel mindset, but I also challenge your assumption because one can change their perspective. Just because someone has a lower earning job, does not necessarily mean they are inferior. In fact, lots of UMC type women love to get laid by artsy type men and be dominated by them. It's still possible for them to be dominated even though she probably makes more money.

However, I would agree that it would be difficult to accomplish if he wasn't physically superior (stronger etc..)

I would also contend that the real issue with hypergamy is not that it exists, but the outright denial and rejection of the premise by blue pill types.

PMmeareasontolive · 2021-06-01T19:08:46+00:00

Simply put, why would I submit to someone who is equal or lesser than me?

Because are you really perceiving yourself as "less than"? The submissive isn't less than the dominant. They just decide to do a power exchange where each is expected to submit/dominate responsibly. There is no great than/lesser than, unless that's a specific kink that you are both consciously doing.

Also, who is worth submitting to is a matter of perception. In art school, art fag types may do well because they are intellectual and caring and therefor safe (generalization), but also outside the perceived norm. Out in the dating world in general it may not work like that.

SonicBackScratcher · 2021-06-01T19:49:25+00:00

But it’s like you guys fail to realize that hypergamy isn’t an active choice but rather natural instinct.

Pretty sure thats RP 101. The Red Queen is a great book on evolutionary psychology on this and it heavily influenced early PUA's and as much as RP doesn't like to say RP is just an offshoot of that PUA thing from the late 90's early 2000's.

The same way men have a much harder time forgiving female promiscuity even prior to meeting a guy. Some of these things are hard wired genetically and like all things its not an always and never but a trend.

TheOffice_Account · 2021-06-01T20:13:09+00:00

This is an incomplete idea.

Obviously not speaking for all women, but me and a lot of others are submissive

Yes, you're right that American women are "submissive", ie, want traditional gender roles in dating. But soon after that, once the ring is on, they want egalitarian gender roles in their marriage. Guess how well that works 😒

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/if-you-want-marriage-equals-then-date-equals/606568/

Heterosexual women of a progressive bent often say they want equal partnerships with men. But dating is a different story entirely. ...After setting all of those precedents, these women then wanted a marriage in which they shared the financial responsibilities, housework, and child care relatively equally. Almost none of my interviewees saw these dating practices as a threat to their feminist credentials or to their desire for egalitarian marriages. But they were wrong.

Just as noteworthy, the LGBTQ interviewees set up the expectations of equality from the outset of dating, not after it. This approach shifted their understanding of what was possible for intimate relationships, and they, for the most part, had more equal, long-term relationships as a result.

If you're going to be submissive (to use your words) to your partner for the next 6 decades, that is one thing. But don't change your style as soon as the ring is on, and then be shocked if things don't work out.

crookedsummer2019 · 2021-06-01T20:14:46+00:00

I hope you (and not him) define what better means for you.

Because some men will do things to make the woman think she is less than them. Your desire to be submissive can be used against you by men who want to decrease a woman’s confidence and self esteem so that she thinks he is better and that she can’t find a better guy than him. That way he can control her.

Nothing wrong with wanting to be submissive if that’s your thing but be careful about how that comes across as wanting someone you are less than because that can attract abusive men and other losers.

Hungry-Nebula · 2021-06-01T20:29:21+00:00

By definition you cannot submit to someone who is less than your superior.

Why the fuck not? Even in a purely sexual context, the power of tools and technology allow anyone to inflict whatever pain they desire on whoever. I can be a skinny, emaciated, weak, short, frail, and lesser person, but if you are in the stocks and I have the key, you are submitting.

Submission is not about pure power, it's about control, and you have to willingly give control. You have the ability to submit to whoever you damn well want.

SaBahRub · 2021-06-01T20:44:48+00:00

Nope. It’s because most men show neither the aptitude nor the interest in being competent household managers/primary childcare providers

midwestufohunter · 2021-06-01T20:59:22+00:00

Are you "submissive" or do you have PTSD?

https://drarielleschwartz.com/the-fawn-response-in-complex-ptsd-dr-arielle-schwartz/#.YLafo5NKi1s

Professional_Gold_25 · 2021-06-01T21:53:00+00:00

Let me translate: women have no fucking clue what they want. Sometimes they want a beta soyboy. Other times they want a Roman gladiator. It's a reflection of their various personality disorders like BPD and NPD.

They, however, do not have to change owing to the sheer preponderance of beta orbiters/incels who give them the narcissistic supply they require to continue believing they're truly desirable.

Having said that, you'll immediately be set upon as a misogynist of you display the traits OP finds attractive.

WilliamWyattD · 2021-06-01T22:48:02+00:00

Yes. You are right. However, what it means to submit can be very nuanced. As does what it means for the man to be superior.

The criteria women use for evaluation men relative to one another and to the woman in question have a significant degree of cultural mediation. As does how a woman acts on her hypergamous impulses.

So if the culture is out of whack, it could be that a lot of women are judging many men as being less than the men really are. It is also possible that a culture really is influencing men to be less capable than they could be.

What you have admitted is the fundamental truth that feminists are so afraid to look at or admit because they falsely believe that if they do, the only rational response is to create a society that is male dominated the way it used to be.

I am not that pessimistic. I think there is a lot of room to accommodate this basic female desire to submit to her mate IN SOME WAYS and for her mate to be more capable IN SOME WAYS, while still having female agency and freedom. Honestly, society has never truly put its mind to this because we have yet to have honest conversations that include the critical point you bring up.

I honestly believe/hope this fundamental need of female nature can be met without reverting to hardcore patriarchy or becoming some type of 80/20 polygamous society where the vast majority of men have no female partners. We need to at least try. But we can't try until we are all honest.

Ogres_r_like_banned · 2021-06-02T04:05:51+00:00

How many women will actually admit, out loud, that they want to submit to a superior male?

1 in 1000? 1 in 10000? OP can do it online but I can almost guarantee she, like other women, will only admit it in a safe place online.

Maybe in Iran or Saudi Arabia or someplace, its common. In the west, not so much. So we can all sit here talking about men needing to lead women and such but the decline of masculinity isnt going to stop anytime soon.

Almost all of society is set up to try to push gender equality or even equity (ie, matriarchy). Individual women can't go against that. Male movements (lol) can't go against that.

DXBrigade · 2021-06-02T18:29:18+00:00

I don't believe in hypergamy because most people date and marry in their own league, that's a fact.

skunkbear444 · 2021-06-01T18:38:18+00:00

Agree 100%. Said in another post guys' best strategy is get an LTR with a girl that is a step below in facial looks, but has a banging body and is your type that and she is really into you. That is the best trade off for attraction + respect.

Only exception is going to a different country where you are wealthier and exotic, and those factors help push up your value to get a hotter, yet still submissive girl. You have to stay in that country though to keep your value that much higher though.

catastrophejr · 2021-06-01T19:15:48+00:00

women HAVE to be hypergamous because ~~of the desire to submit~~ it costs $200,000 to raise a child, not including college tuition. if you want your kids to succeed in life these days, you have to marry up.

Title	women HAVE to be hypergamous because of the desire to submit
Author	Responsible-Bike9047
Upvotes	0
Comments	131
Date	June 1, 2021 6:19 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/nq0oje/women_have_to_be_hypergamous_because_of_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-have-to-be-hypergamous-because-of-the-desire.773574 https://theredarchive.com/post/773574

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