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[–]Mitthrawnuruodo1337 362 points363 points364 points 9 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link
This is so typical. In every broad category of unnatural death, men are killed at higher rates, so the media always bends over backwards to find a way to highlight female deaths. And then the public perpetuates the idea that women are victims of violence to the point where all the political capital us spent in that arena. Sorry, but this resource-seeking via narrative is precisely why feminism and men's rights will never be compatible on a mass scale.
[–][deleted] 131 points132 points133 points 9 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link
Would you like a pink ribbon? No? Why do you hate women?
[–]thehunter699 17 points18 points19 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well my internet history implies no.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
I know this is sarcasm, but I think '/s' is common enough to be accepted into general internet etiquette, it's very helpful even if it dulls the sarcasm a little.
[–]umar4812 19 points20 points21 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
We're on a Men's Rights sub. I think we all know it's satire.
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Sometimes we end up on r/all and it seems Feminists and other crazies enter the fold.
I invoke Poe's law.
[–]umar4812 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Fair enough.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[Question] followed by "why do you hate women?" Is a common enough template I think it should be pretty recognizable without explanation.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I did not know of this template.
I have accepted my (checks downvotes) 96 lashings and will make sure I don't forget it in the future.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Everyone makes mistakes.
[+][deleted] -93 points-92 points-91 points 9 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link
Get your head out of your ass.
Edit: I'm aware I was wrong, please downvote at your leisure.
[–]Error404FUBAR 66 points67 points68 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Even on the internet you can't be this bad at reading sarcasm can you..
[–]Oblivious_Indian_Guy 31 points32 points33 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Wow I didn't realize it was sarcasm and that went over my head. I get it now though
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Don't worry, I think I've taken the brunt of their outrage lol.
[+][deleted] -33 points-32 points-31 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Clearly I can.
[+][deleted] 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'll keep that one ;)
[–]Seventh_______ 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Rip that comment tho.
Sometimes downvotes are earned.
[–]LedZeppelin1602 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Excellent comment. "Violence Against Women And Girls" campaigns and laws are the result of the narrative
[–]Mr_MRAnarchist 566 points567 points568 points 9 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link
The feminists should be happy that women are closing that suicide gap... horray for equality.
[–]tedcase 114 points115 points116 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Breaking through the glass ceiling.
[–][deleted] 123 points124 points125 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Falling through the glass ceiling.
[–]Vidar34 34 points35 points36 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Falling through the glass grave stone, from the paper hangman's noose.
[–]H2owsome 17 points18 points19 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hanging from the glass ceiling
[–]WildHuntsman 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Diving into the glass coffin.
[–]AnnArchist 68 points69 points70 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Want to know what a feminist fears the most? The ERA
Note -
League of Women Voters, formerly the National American Woman Suffrage Association, opposed the Equal Rights Amendment until 1972, fearing the loss of protective labor legislation
lol
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
Sorry but let me just play devil's advocate for a sec. It appears that the league's opposition against the ERA actually went against feminist views and acted as a significant reason for feminists to shift to being democrat
Heck the republican who introduced the opposition to the bill was staunchly anti-feminist
Dont get me wrong I definitely see flaws in the feminist movement in most developed countries but this just aint one of them
Edit: also fuck phyllis schlafly ya cunt. Good riddance
[–]Arizth 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Never trust a man named Joe or a woman named Phyllis.
It is known.
[–]UtahStateAgnostics 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Especially if his last name is Smith.
[–]seraph85 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
It makes me wonder what aspect of the now more blurred gender line makes the role men filled more inclined to kill themselves?
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Suicide just another instance where women's failures are equal to men's success because "equality".
Men are suffering for a wide variety of reasons. It's not so much "Gender Roles" as it is being the majority of nearly every form of misfortune there is.
[–]CatpainTpyos 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
I don't have much of an answer as to the why, but my understanding is that women are statistically more likely to display suicidal tendencies and attempt suicide than men. But, while men attempt suicide less often, they successfully commit suicide more often, largely due to typically preferring more violent and instantaneous methods (e.g. gunshot to the head) compared to the less violent and slow-burning methods typically preferred by women (e.g. overdosing on pills).
[–]Larry-Man 16 points17 points18 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Part of it is the lack of social support for men and willingness of men to seek out help. Unlike women, men are generally discouraged from talking about feelings and this leads to a lack of emotional support. Men are also more likely to own guns and statistically if you own a gun you're more likely to die due to self inflicted gunshots than be killed by one (most gun related deaths in the US are suicide). By and large the fact that men are much more disparaged for seeking mental and emotional help is probably the most likely culprit for the difference.
[–]blackxxwolf3 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
and many people will point and say "its been who dont want other men to be emotional" simply put no, its not. men's behaviors is shaped by women. women do not like emotional men. men will do what women want same as women will do what men want.
[–]Larry-Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Male homophobia is a contribuing but declining factor. Don't forget men don't just have to be emotionally connected to women and aren't defined by their interactions with women alone.
[–]BeefsteakTomato 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
women are statistically more likely to display suicidal tendencies and attempt suicide than men.
Only if you don't cont successful suicides as attempted suicides.
[–]Jethr0Paladin 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Which is what everybody does. Because failing isn't doing it.
[–]BeefsteakTomato 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My point is that fewer women try to take their lives than men, regardless of if they are successful or not. Women only fail at suicide more than men.
[–]catherinedoll4 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
That's not true. From the article Facts about Suicide from Psychcentral: women try to commit suicide twice as often as men (they're just unsuccessful).
[–]Dakewlguy 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You actually can't track suicide attempts, as it's impossible to distinguish intentional suicide attempts from non-intentional self-harm behaviors. The closest proxy we have is CDC data from hospitals on non-fatal injuries from self-harm.
[–]BeefsteakTomato 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Read the source study...
[–]seraph85 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Huh, I know about men being more successful at suicide but I thought we attempted more as well. I likely am wrong I never really thought to look too much into the data.
[–]BeefsteakTomato 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You are correct.
[–]Dakewlguy 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]blackxxwolf3 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
one person can attempt multiple times and fail. one only needs to succeed once to never attempt again.
[–]bufedad 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My favorite quote on this topic:
We rarely ask why men use more lethal methods. After all, a suicide attempt is a cry for help. And a cry for help shows a belief that someone will listen. But if you don’t believe anyone will listen then you don’t attempt suicide – you commit suicide
Not mine... it just speaks to me about this.
[–]nocivo 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They want note women than mans like they want in everything. The difference is that in this case is to have stats to show how oppressed they are and how more privileges they need.
[–]-redditardation- 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly.
In fact according to their Marxist doctrine we should probably be encouraging young girls to commit suicide to close the gap.
...but we know that'll never happen because feminism isn't about equality.
[–]AloysiusC 195 points196 points197 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
TIL: sexism is when women aren't doing at least an order of magnitude better than men.
[–]dukunt 60 points61 points62 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's about as good a definition of sexism as you're ever going to hear.
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 151 points152 points153 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Women move fractionally closer to having it as shitty as men. Clearly this is a war on women.
[+][deleted] 9 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]HiredMind 118 points119 points120 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
If sexism is to blame for suicide, then women are much more sexist than men.
[–][deleted] 18 points19 points20 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
If toxic masculinity is to blame for male suicide then an increase in rates of female suicide indicates that toxic femininity is on the increase and feminism is failing.
[–]TheAngryGoat 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
indicates that toxic femininity is on the increase and feminism is failing.
Contradicted yourself there!
[–]splodgenessabounds 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
If toxic masculinity is to blame for male suicide
Very good, carry on
then an increase in rates of female suicide indicates that toxic femininity is on the increase and feminism is failing.
(sigh) No, no, no. You started so well, and then lost it entirely. There no such thing as "toxic femininty" let alone the "failure" of Feminism - it is all the fault of PatriarchyTM which devalues women.
Haven't you learnt anything?
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You are quite correct, I shall hand myself in for re-education immediately!
[–]Pz5 25 points26 points27 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Media shows its ingrained sexist culture yet again.
[–][deleted] 16 points17 points18 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Something something patriarchy
[–]TheInevitableHulk 42 points43 points44 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
"Just get over it pussy"
"Man up"
"Quit being a little bitch"
Something tells me that suicidal females don't get brushed off like that
And it was the same with aboriginal female murders going up despite the males having multiple times higher rates
[–][deleted] 28 points29 points30 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
None of that is the primary reason men and boys die to suicide.
The "Muh feelings" narrative is only used by Feminists to obscure and hide the fact that men and boys constitute the majority of every societal ailment from homelessness to unemployment.
[–]SnakeyButtSoWhat 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I thought I could go to my dad for my thoughts when I was depressed. He laughed and said I was 19 and have nothing to be depressed about yet.
[–]DoctorRedPillz 45 points46 points47 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Men die at higher rates then women, we engage in risky behavior, have higher rates of drug use and don't talk openly about our feelings due to pressure from other men. The top comment really hit this article on the head with a baseball bat. People were less sympathetic when I tried to take my own life. My attempt was due to drug use, untreated depression and lack of friends. Women get way more sympathy and attention when acting on a suicide attempt. This made my skin crawl.
[–][deleted] 44 points45 points46 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Men also suffer from pretty much every societal ailment more than women. Men are the majority of the homeless, the war dead, homicide victims, etc. Add all that to the fact that Feminism engages in constant anti-male campaigns and you get young men and boys with no role models and more suffering than they can handle.
[–]wwwhistler 29 points30 points31 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
"and don't talk openly about our feelings due to pressure from other men.".....other men? the only pressure to hide my feelings has come from women, not men.
[–]DoctorRedPillz 10 points11 points12 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You've never been shamed for talking about how you feel? "Just man up bro!" "Don't be such a pussy dude." I've had those kind of responses. I'm not saying every guy but I know for me I wasn't comfortable sharing my feelings. I never felt like I could be vulnerable around people. It was my perception that you had to be a tough guy and harden up. I guess it was just the environment I was in more than anything.
[–]blackxxwolf3 17 points18 points19 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
while i have seen men do this its women who generally cause this point of view. i dont have the source but others here have linked it previously when these discussions come up. women want manly men. they dont want emotional men. my mom was the one telling me to "man up" when i talked about how i couldnt get over being molested by a woman as a child. my father was the one talking me through it.
[–]Ultramegasaurus 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Women expect men to be tough too.
You've never been shamed for talking about how you feel
Literally not even once, my male friends care, my female friends did not.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My attempt was due to drug use, untreated depression and lack of friends.
Mine was due to being legally blind (and having developed a horrible attitude due to the harassment I received, leading me to pushing away even good people) - being freshly isolated from the few people who cared (college) - and just in general having no reason to live.
I got really really really lucky.
[–]Elfere 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Of course a feminist would complain when they finally get equality that doesn't benifit them.
[–]Silvystreak 22 points23 points24 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Maybe it's because life fucking sucks and people are sick of being told how wonderful it is.
^ This, it's literally this.
[–]Onearmedman2 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I have no idea who you are. My life's going pretty good right now. I hope things start going better for you. There is a place past all the bullshit in the world where people are actually capable of looking to the good in each other. Take strength where you can find it because life is worth doing that
[–]atero 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Please, tell me more about how men cannot face sexism because it has to be institutionalized.
The best part is you can point out institutional sexism and they'll just screech about how it's all men who made the laws and federals orgs.
Despite the fact that those men were put there by a majority female populace.
Arguing with a feminist is like arguing with a brick.
[–]anonaconn 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
No, it's because equality is causing women to lead the lives men lead, which are more stressful and pressured.
You wait, in five years there will be some huge charity specifically for women committing suicide that will garner more attention and donations than any men's charity.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
To what degree do you believe Men are responsible for this, and how do we fix it?
[–]anonaconn 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
On the first point I couldn't confidently answer, my argument would probably do more harm than good unless I spent an hour writing my opinion. But I will say, probably not all that much. I think biological differences need to be accepted and embraced, rather than being used to demonise particular genders.
On the second point I can answer. I don't think there is that much we can do, the main problem is that views have become too polarised and it's more of a gender war than anything else. Frankly, the more Men try to push back, the more it harms us. Women who care enough to listen are the best bet, people like Cassie Jay, a brain washed feminist who realised the information she had been consuming was nothing more than a lie.
That's why every campaign has to be gender specific. We can't have anti-circumcision campaigns, they have to be anti-FGM and anti-male circumcision. We can't have suicide prevention, we have to have male suicide prevention and female suicide prevention.
Women have problems and men have problems, sometimes those experiences are shared and sometimes they are not. What is plain to see though, is that regardless of the issue, men usually lose to women.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
On the first point I couldn't confidently answer, my argument would probably do more harm than good unless I spent an hour writing my opinion.
Opinions can't do harm, they're just words. Someone would have to be stupid enough to act on them if they were so flawed.
I think biological differences need to be accepted and embraced, rather than being used to demonise particular genders.
Seconded, but currently we have "Toxic Masculinity" and "Patriarchy Theory" which I'd say demonizes one particular gender rather thoroughly.
On the second point I can answer. I don't think there is that much we can do, the main problem is that views have become too polarised and it's more of a gender war than anything else.
It's more a "Everyone v. Feminism" thing, most women are not feminists. We need to ensure that people don't just accept the "Feminism is equality" narrative.
Frankly, the more Men try to push back, the more it harms us. Women who care enough to listen are the best bet, people like Cassie Jay, a brain washed feminist who realised the information she had been consuming was nothing more than a lie.
Karen Straughan has a video about this:
If we don't ensure that men are valued equally we'll never stop the problem, if you get people to act only because you've painted it as a "woman's problem too" they'll cease to give a damn once the women's issue is resolved in the case of suicide this would still leave a massive number of men & boys dying by their own hand. Worse, if they deem that it's not an issue for women then they'll simply refuse to help.
We have to reinforce the principle that Men matter, they matter equally, and when they have a problem that is significantly worse, significantly more deadly, that it is a REAL problem.
My concern is that if we give up on core beliefs i.e. "Men are humans and deserve assistance, just as much as women do - even if it does not affect women" then we'll cease to be a "Men's Rights Movement" and simply become a group without principle. If we advocate for homelessness (of which men are ~62% AHAR Report to Congress. Pt. 2 see page 40 and they for example launch a variety of Women only initiatives sure we've reduced homelessness but men - the majority of those affected - are still left in the cold.
[–]anonaconn 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Good response, very interesting - thank you.
Yeah I mean I whole heartedly agree with everything you have said. I'd also like to add that for me, I think a huge part of this is people who have based their life around being upset and offended. There are too many people like the 'Hugh Mungus' woman. I forget her name, probably for the best.
Outrage culture has definitely got out of hand.
Thanks for your post, I always wonder how other people think about things like that and it's rare to get such a thought out response.
[–]Volcanic-Penguin 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Reaching equality in suicide rates = sexism against women
[–]DatGrass14 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
914 likes gives me hope
[–]ARedthorn 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
To be clear...Canada had: 161 male teen suicides in 2003, which has dropped to 101 in 2013. 55 female teen suicides in 2003, which has risen to 66 in 2013.
Those numbers boggle my mind 3 different ways. 1- I wouldn't be surprised if NY has more teen suicides by itself. 2- overall, suicide has gone down for all teens, by about 1/3 in a decade. (1&2: what is Canada doing right, jeez?!?) 3- the sample sizes are so small a change of 20 would be hard to find statistically significant... much less 11. (BBC, I'm disappointed in you.)
Oh, and meanwhile, total suicide rates are essentially unchanged (same time frame: male from 2,700 to 3,000 // female from 800 to 1,000)
Canada and America are far different in regards to culture and size.
New York is ~9 Million people or 1/4th of Canada's population.
[–]EricAllonde 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
(1&2: what is Canada doing right, jeez?!?)
The availability of guns makes a huge difference to suicide rates. A number of suicides are the result of impulse decisions which are likely to come & go without harm...unless there is a gun on hand to turn it into a decision with permanent consequences.
Here in Australia the gun laws were greatly tightened in 1996 and a buyback took hundreds of thousands of guns out of the community. (Multiply Australian numbers by 15 to get roughly equivalent figures for the USA). The effects of that change have been studied carefully and it did have a substantial impact on suicide rates.
Yes there's a small amount of "displacement", i.e. people who simply switch to using a different method to commit suicide instead, but roughly 90% of gun suicides are eliminated when the guns are taken away - those people live instead of dying.
I know there are a lot fewer guns per capita in Canada than in the USA, so that probably explains at least some of the difference in suicide rates.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I think when you say availability of guns, you mean pistols. Because you can get long arms in Canada that are disallowed to be imported to the United States. Pistols are more likely to contribute to failed suicides than a rifle or shotgun. It's the culture. Canada does not have a heavy gun culture, violent crimes are much lower there.
[–]TheFanne 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
But then you have this whole drug crisis in Vancouver...
[+][deleted] 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]TheFanne 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No, but I think it fits in the conversation because we're talking about deaths.
I probably just have bad social skills.
[–]Sleepless_Devil 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Anything bad that ever happens to any female ever, is clearly a case of sexism and misogyny. Down with all men
/s
[–]TigPlaze 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Men killing themselves ... ho hum. Women killing themselves .... oh, no!!!
Kinda typical from BBC. Their reporting on the issues of the day tends to be very good and relatively unbiased, but most of their fluff pieces are about distinctly feminine struggles and there's always an undertone that seems to be asking if men are to blame.
[–]double-happiness 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is the best article on male suicide I've read so far, worth checking out: https://mosaicscience.com/story/male-suicide
[–]Yuo_cna_Raed_Tihs 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Technically, women are more likely to try and commit suicide, they just fail way more often because of reasons.
[–]TheDrunkenMagi 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sexism is to blame. Sexism against men.
As more women pursue lives as success objects like men they will feel the pressures and failures we've been dealing with for centuries. And then kill themselves.
[–]sennhauser 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Of course the fucking BBC.
[–]biscuitgravy 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You call THAT a suicide? Here, hold my purse.
They're oblivious.
[–]BroaxXx 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This for me encapsulates pretty perfectly why feminism is dead and totally unsuited to take care of current social problems... Feminism had its place and was able to conquer very important victories for women and gender equality but, right now, we need to end the current joke that feminism has turned into and fight for equality for all regardless of gender, sexual orientation, color, religion, etc.
I can only hope that, one day, society as a whole understands and accepts this and all different groups (MRM, feminism, etc) can merge together and fight for what we really really need... Equality.
If you want to understand why this happens you needn't look further than the OKcupid analysis of what people find attractive.
Men found women attractive on roughly and equal distribution while women found 80% of men unattractive.
The reality is biology has programmed women to only seek the most desirable men and those don't tend to kill themselves (although rock stars are an exception in many ways but also have many other downsides.).
[–]albinodruid -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
No matter who we are or what our circumstances in life are, no matter any injustice done to us in any point of life, we shouldn't be advocating for or making light of suicide. It is sexist for a journalist to (seemingly, I haven't gone and read it) flippantly treat the suicide of men as a passing statistic and only take notice of or express concern for the deaths of females, sure. We all get that. But we are monsters if we look at this and only see injustice for men, and (in our own turn) dismiss the tragedy of the suicides of those women.
[–]bufedad 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Then let us be monsters. Monsters are noticed. People question how monsters are created. Monsters are not ignored. I don't care that the rate of suicide among women is starting to approach that of men. I don't care. I can't bring myself to care. Men have been in crisis regarding suicide for so long, and it has been ignored.
[–]albinodruid 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I don't think you are a monster, bufedad, and I don't think you want to be a monster.
You may be right that monsters are noticed... that they aren't ignored. But I am not sure I agree that "people question how monsters are created." People say that, sure. When tragedy strikes any community, the first words on so many peoples' lips are "How could this happen?" But everyone knows how it happens. It isn't terribly hard to empathize with someone. It is painful, but so easy and so important. I think that, when someone commits a crime, or takes their own life, or attempts to fill the world with just a little more hate, it's easy to understand as long as one takes the time to look at the causes. Humans are extremely good at solving cause and effect problems. We can understand pain, rage, passion, and fear, and we can understand how it drives people to do something immensely terrible. No one has ever been completely alone. People understand why others feel hate and resentment, and understand how it could lead to someone committing previously "unthinkable" acts. People understand why so-called "monsters" are created.
And I don't think people want there to be monsters. I don't think there has ever been a story that has featured a true monster as anything desirable. There's stories where people are confused for monsters, and then, once exposed to empathy and compassion, they are suddenly no longer the monster. Like the Iron Giant or something. Once shown love, he's Superman. And that story is so good because everyone can understand it. We understand Agent Mansley, we understand Hogarth, we understand Annie and Dean, the general... and we understand Vin Diesel's titanic engine of doom and peace. No one is a monster in that film, but there are many that are perceived as monsters. And we all know how they got there, and we all hope for some resolution for each one of the characters. Heck, I even hope Mansley finds a lot of peace in the end. But there's no story I can think of where a real monster, a being composed purely of pain and suffering and hate without any empathy or compassion from the audience, is a hero for the wanton destruction it wreaks. Things might change for some measure of "better" in the end, but never without the destruction of the monster that caused it, and almost never resulting in an age of the world being made better than it was in the first place... no situation where the hole left by what is lost in the process somehow leaves the hearts of the people who continue living. Monsters are noticed, and they bring change, and they are almost always understandable, but any good they bring about or any awareness they cause always comes with the destruction of the monster and never through the destruction caused by the monster.
So I don't think we want to ever be monsters, even when it is easy to hate. We just want some empathy. Which I almost always find is easier than we think it will be. And which I think will best heal any suffering experienced by man.
Which is why I personally find it extremely important to empathize for anyone in so much pain that they would even consider discarding the will to live and love. No matter that person's sex, they should be stood by. No one should be ignored. But then, I think it is important to realize that there are so many situations where a person doesn't have to be a monster to be noticed. It is sometimes much harder, especially for myself, because I frequently am far too bitter and furious for my own good. But it is far more often that people do good and are met with good. So we ought to try, and we will eventually be met with empathy directed at us, too. So we ought to try, in my opinion.
Idk, my two cents. Why do you feel we have to be monsters to be noticed? We are in crisis, yes, but why do you think that makes us entitled to being void of empathy? I thought one of the most important aims of men's rights was to usher in an age where men are allowed to feel love and compassion. Is that not worth trying for here and now?
If caring as little about women committing suicide as they do about men committing suicide makes us monsters, then we should be.
If they cannot find it in themselves to grant us equality to their level, then we should grant them equality to ours.
[+]WilliamGrand -21 points-20 points-19 points 9 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
Ya but its not sexism killing men, its toxic masculinity.
Edit: Sarcasm... Jesus....
[–][deleted] 21 points22 points23 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ya but its not sexism killing men
It's sexism.
Men constitute the majority of every form of suffering (homelessness, war-dead, loss of child custody) and are less likely to take role-model positions (i.e. Teachers) because of the reality that a male teacher who is falsely accused will not recover (female teachers can rape and assault children without concern, they have nothing to fear from false accusations because they have nothing to fear from real accusations).
Feminism is an anti-male hate campaign against men, one that should be ripped apart and permanently dismantled. A good example of this is that Feminists won't allow for "Toxic Femininity" to exist, Feminism is a hate movement and always has been.
Toxic Masculinity is code for "I hate men", you're a misandrist as is the entire feminist movement.
[–]blamethemeta 19 points20 points21 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You mean toxic feminity, right?
Feminists won't ever allow their ideology (flawed as it is) to swing both ways.
[+]--Edog-- -20 points-19 points-18 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Maybe social media is to blame? Maybe do some scientific research?
[+]GlobTwo -16 points-15 points-14 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Women attempt suicide significantly more often than men. They're just not as successful because men use much more effective methods.
Those are some pretty big generalisations but I feel like they make this cringeworthy post a little less valid.
[–]morerokk 12 points13 points14 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
That's because women who fail live to try again, inflating the statistics.
Women use suicide as a cry for help, men use it because there is no other way out. Women cut horizontally, men cut vertically.
[–]GlobTwo 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Good point. I would be surprised if this accounted for the entire discrepancy, but I am not sure.
This is not quite so compelling and seems like a theory you've spun on your own.
A good study showing this is here:
Although several previous smaller studies have found no gender difference in intent scores (Dyer & Kreitman, 1984; Niméus et al, 2002), others have found higher scores among male patients (Hjelmeland et al, 2000; Haw et al, 2003). Hjelmeland et al (2000) argued that the gender difference observed in their study was due to their large sample rendering a negligible difference statistically significant, and was therefore of no theoretical or practical significance. The difference in intent scores of the male and female patients in our study is considerably larger, and highly significant. In addition, the gender differences found throughout the rest of the analyses suggest that there are real differences between men and women who harm themselves, with respect to suicidal intent. Source: Value of measuring suicidal intent in the assessment of people attending hospital following self-poisoning or self-injury
Although several previous smaller studies have found no gender difference in intent scores (Dyer & Kreitman, 1984; Niméus et al, 2002), others have found higher scores among male patients (Hjelmeland et al, 2000; Haw et al, 2003). Hjelmeland et al (2000) argued that the gender difference observed in their study was due to their large sample rendering a negligible difference statistically significant, and was therefore of no theoretical or practical significance. The difference in intent scores of the male and female patients in our study is considerably larger, and highly significant. In addition, the gender differences found throughout the rest of the analyses suggest that there are real differences between men and women who harm themselves, with respect to suicidal intent.
Source: Value of measuring suicidal intent in the assessment of people attending hospital following self-poisoning or self-injury
And here's another Corroborating source:
Suicide intent data from 5212 participants was included in the analysis. A significant association between suicide intent and gender was found, where ‘Serious Suicide Attempts’ (SSA) were rated significantly more frequently in males than females (p < .001). There was a statistically significant gender difference in intent and age groups (p < .001) and between countries (p < .001). Furthermore, within the most utilised method, intentional drug overdose, ‘Serious Suicide Attempt’ (SSA) was rated significantly more often for males than females (p < .005). Source: A cross-national study on gender differences in suicide intent
Suicide intent data from 5212 participants was included in the analysis. A significant association between suicide intent and gender was found, where ‘Serious Suicide Attempts’ (SSA) were rated significantly more frequently in males than females (p < .001). There was a statistically significant gender difference in intent and age groups (p < .001) and between countries (p < .001). Furthermore, within the most utilised method, intentional drug overdose, ‘Serious Suicide Attempt’ (SSA) was rated significantly more often for males than females (p < .005).
Source: A cross-national study on gender differences in suicide intent
Men - as people LOVE to point out when it's an argument against men - are also less likely to seek medical attention.
In other words, women become more efficient. I call that progress.
[+]g_squidman -34 points-33 points-32 points 9 years ago (39 children) | Copy Link
Everyone knows women attempt more suicide than men, just men actually die from it more. I just can't justify this statistic as a responsible argument for why men have it worse. We have plenty of issues, but suicide is everyone's issue.
[–][deleted] 22 points23 points24 points 9 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link
Everyone knows women attempt more suicide than men
Attempts can be counted multiiple times.
Women don't attempt seriously, they are merely calling for attention because they know they will receive it. Women cut their wrists horizontally men tend to cut vertically.
suicide is everyone's issue.
Suicide is a Men's Rights Issue, this isn't horse shoes people are fucking dying. The fact that you think a half-assed attempt equates the loss of a male life means you don't care about men and boys very much.
It can be "Everyone's issue" when everyone dies from it equally.
[–]Source_or_gtfo 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Attempts can be counted multiiple times. Women don't attempt seriously, they are merely calling for attention because they know they will receive it. Women cut their wrists horizontally men tend to cut vertically.
A source for these claims would be very useful.
There are a wide variety of studies showing that Men tend to have more intention of dying with regards to suicide.
If these are insufficient I link a few more:
[+][deleted] 9 years ago* (20 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link
and you're whining about who's issue it is.
Suicide is the #7 leading cause of death among males, it is a male issue. Just because you find it acceptable and equatable to a group where suicide isn't even a leading cause of death that doesn't make it so.
If we allow disgusting, anti-male, feminist bigots like yourself to co-opt the issue men and boys will continue to be rampantly more likely to die. Just admit it: You want boys to die at a far greater rate than girls, you want them to suffer.
You're a bigot - there's no other way for you to conclude that 4 males equates to 1 female.
Even accounting for multiple attempts, that doesn't fully explain the discrepancy.
It absolutely does.
[+][deleted] 9 years ago* (18 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link
I'm a proud men's rights activist and a fact-based logical thinker.
"Fact based logical" -> "4 males dying is just as important as 4 women trying and failing"
Oh fucking please.
Then by your logic, portraying it as an issue that doesn't solely affect men will cause more action to actually be taken
No you self prostrating retard, Women's groups have constantly helped women in issues men suffer from far more, you're saying "Sure go ahead and sweep males under the carpet again"
You're a despicable and disgusting human being, you don't care about men at all. You're not an MRA, you're a feminist, one who only cares when women suffer.
[–]g_squidman 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago* (16 children) | Copy Link
Well. If this is how you want to play, I'm checking out. Replacing logic and debate with inane ad hominem... And somehow I'm the dirty, man-hating feminist. Ironic.
Come back when you're willing to admit that something that kills 4x as many people is more serious.
Chao.
[–]cabose4prez 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
He did the same thing with me, I just gave up finally, people taking their own lives is terrible and needs to be dealt with across every demographic not just men or women, teens or adults, just everyone
[–]g_squidman 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
"four doesn't equal one! Four doesn't equal one!" It doesn't equal seven either. That's the whole point.
Between you and me, I've stepped in those shoes. It's not the death that's tragic about suicide, it's the wanting to die. But that's a personal belief borne simply from my own experience. If I tried to talk about that here, he'd just yell more about how I, "want men to die." Ridiculous.
[–]cabose4prez 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Yeah I just don't want anyone to die from suicide and for some reason I hate men because I don't want women to die as well, its kind of fucked up
[–]Ricwulf 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
No he didn't. Ad hominem is only when an insult is used in place of an argument. He insulted you while accompanying an argument. Just because you and /u/g_squidman don't understand the difference between 4 dead and 4 not dead isn't his fault.
The fact that you don't understand that there are many people who make many attempts, sometimes 5+, and how that can severely impact the numbers isn't his fault.
The fact that he spelt out how men are dying at 4 times the rate of women with next to none of the resources women have is a men's issue is laughable that you can't grasp it.
Here's a question: is the lack of men's domestic violence shelters a men's issue? Of fucking course it is. So why is the lack of male focused suicide material not a male problem? Men and women are not the same. Men and women do not have the same mental patterns. And as such, resources which are designed to help women are sketchy at best for men.
Pull your swollen heads out of your asses and try to engage a little. You put on a good act of being open, yet haven't said anything of value yet. When given an explanation of why the attempt number is higher for women, you simply dismiss instead of offer any countering argument. But you two keep up your circlejerk of pity.
[–]cabose4prez -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Ok man, ain't no point in arguing anymore, I'm done with this sub since I feel like my opinions and thoughts are completely useless, sub is the same thing as the feminism you all hate but now for men. Sub used to be about making people equal in a good way, I think most of you would be happy if women's suicide rates rose to the current levels of men's because then it would be equal and fair, instead of trying to keep women's from increasing while also decreasing men's. Weird sense of equality.
[+]cabose4prez -8 points-7 points-6 points 9 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link
How is it not an issue for everyone? Should we not worry about the increasing rate for women as well as the currently higher rate for men?
Also a suicide attempt is a suicide attempt, don't take away how serious of a subject this is by saying women are merely calling for attention.
[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 9 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link
How is it not am issue for everyone?
7 males die for every female, get your head out of your ass.
Also a suicide attempt is a suicide attempt
No it is not, a serious suicide attempt is one that aims to end your life. A half-assed "I just want attention" suicide attempt is one that repeatedly lands you in the hospital leading to an inflated number of "attempts".
women are merely calling for attention.
Because they are, they routinely choose less fatal methods, they don't want to die they want a society which they know cares to give them sympathy. It's just an extension of Feminism and it's victim complex.
Suicide is a serious issue for boys, it's their #7 leading cause of death. It is not anywhere near as common for women, you insult every male suicide victim by implying someone making a cry for attention is the same as someone hurting so much they truly don't want live.
[+]cabose4prez -16 points-15 points-14 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
You insult every female suicide victim by saying that they are not as important as men, and that all they want is attention, this sub has become genuine shit.
And as for your other comment is it 4 or 8 men for every women, and no where in my post did I imply that 1 women dying is equivalent to 4, I said the high number of current suicides among men is a concern and the increasing suicides among women is also a concern and both should be taken seriously, instead you act like men are the more important ones and that women do not deserve to be mentioned in suicide topics since they do not kill themselves frequently enough to make it your concern.
Spineless? Blind, nah, I just have a suicical sister who is important to me and its not a joking matter or call to attention so fuck off bud, everyone is important not just men for this topic
[–][deleted] 16 points17 points18 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
You insult every female suicide victim by saying that they are not as important as men
No, the ones who die are equivalent to the males who died.
In your flawed man-hating world 4 dead boys is equal to 1 dead woman.
I don't equate the living with the dead, you do.
suicides among women is also a concern and both should be taken seriously,
Both should be taken seriously, but clearly one is more serious and more rampant. You don't equate 4 people dying to 1 person dying they're not equal.
instead you act like men are the more important ones
Stopping the death of 8 people is more important than stopping the death of 1. It's common sense. When Men and Women die from suicide equally you can expect them to be treated equally.
I just have a suicical sister who is important to me
If she were a male she'd likely be dead. As someone who's attempted and failed suicide myself I get the feeling but it doesn't negate the fact that Your sister is alive, but suicide is the #7 leading cause of death for boys.
everyone is important not just men for this topic
Get your head out of your ass, no one is saying "Female suicides don't matter" everyone is merely pointing out that you think an attempt equates a death.
Tell that to all the families who lose their fathers, sons, brothers, and husbands to suicide.
Get over yourself and accept reality. A suicide attempt is nothing compared to a death, suicide attempts can be repeated but dead people don't try again to imply that male attempts wouldn't be higher is asinine.
[–]blackxxwolf3 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
please PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stay on this sub forever. i love you. reading your points are super easy you spend time doing it and address each and every point they make. amazing.
I just don't understand how you can equate 4 deaths to 1.
Yes suicide is always serious, yes decreasing attempts matters, no an attempt doesn't equate to a life lost.
I attempted suicide, and I can tell you that it would've been far worse for everyone had I died. At the very least someone who doesn't succeed gets a second chance - that's one more chance than people usually get.
[+]cabose4prez -9 points-8 points-7 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You have completely taken everything I have said and made bullshit from it, I never said 1=4=8, I don't hate men, if I did I would really hate myself I guess, but i don't so not sure how thats supposed to work.
I can't even argue this because anything I say is quoted and ignored while saying 1 to 4, men are more important since they die more, instead of saying human lives are important and everyone of them should be worried about. I am pretty sure this sub would be totally fine with womens suicide rates hitting the same rates as mens before they said anything, that is a sick sense of equality.
[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
men are more important since they die more
Living != Dead, the loss of life is severe, it's a shame you can't grasp that.
instead of saying human lives are important and everyone of them should be worried about
I love it. When men are the majority of an issue it's "Oh it's everyone's issue, it's not a 'Men's issue'" when women are the majority of an issue it's "War on women" and "Women's Issues"
You sexists are deeply disturbed.
I am pretty sure this sub would be totally fine with womens suicide rates hitting the same rates as mens before they said anything
No one is against female suicide victims getting help, they're against people sweeping male victims under the rug - i.e. EXACTLY what you're trying to do here. People like you have been entirely happy with Males being the majority of suicides, nobody talked about suicide at all until suicide rates among women increased. Feminism is a hate movement and I won't have disgusting human beings trying to sweep male lives under the rug.
Until the lives lost are equal don't you dare equate them. Male suicide is far more prevalent, and far more serious than Female suicide presently. When dealing with issues you deal with what's killing the most people, male suicide is 4x as deadly.
[–]cabose4prez 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
This is one of the very few topics I believe is everyones issue because people lives are important whether you are a man or woman and suicide is a terrible thing.
they're against people sweeping male victims under the rug - i.e. EXACTLY what you're trying to do here. People like you have been entirely happy with Males being the majority of suicides, nobody talked about suicide at all until suicide rates among women increased.
I don't really know how else to say it, men are important, women are important, we need to lower mens suicide rate while also stopping the growth of womens, if you can't agree with that I don't know what else to say
[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is one of the very few topics I believe is everyones issue because people lives are important whether you are a man or woman
I don't know what else to say
Simple say this: "Men's lives are just as important as women, when 4 men die for every woman that shows that men are suffering more, if all lives are equal then a greater loss of life shows inequality and is therefore more pressing"
Is that so hard?
we need to lower mens suicide rate
Yes, we do, it's far more pressing than addressing female suicide because it's 4x as deadly.
while also stopping the growth of womens
This is the Mens Rights subbreddit, Stopping the growth of female suicide is important (but less immediately concerning considering it's 1/4th as deadly as male suicide which is the #7 leading cause of death among males) but Women get mass support by the government and organizations at every level. This is outside the scope of Mens Rights.
Coming into a Mens support group and saying "Well what about the women who die far less often" isn't constructive, we know suicide can affect anyone - no one is saying otherwise - but it's affecting males far more and we need to address it.
4 Males die to suicide for every 1 female, until that is addressed they are not equal.
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
And as for your other comment is it 4 or 8 men for every wome
It's 4:1, Males are 80% of suicides (not that you value their lives equally). It would be 8-2 or 4-1, I screwed up the math.
When girls die equally to boys give me a call. Suicide is the #7 leading cause of death among males, by implying that's not an issue or implying that a group that isn't nearly as common has it just as bad you spit on their graves.
You're a despicable and selfish person and you need to realize that.
4 doesn't equal 1.
[–]cabose4prez 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I never said it wasn't an issue, I never said 4 equals 1, you just make shit up. I just said they are both important
I just said they are both important
Suicide is important, but Male suicide is far more serious.
Would you say stopping a mass murderer or a terrorist is equally important to stopping one murder?
Suicide is a men's issue because 4 males will die for every female, anyone who cares about men realizes this. It's overwhelmingly male and without understanding the discrimination and bias against males (i.e. What you're displaying) we'll never lower it.
Today I learned that 1 woman is equivalent to 4 men.
Thanks for clearing that up for me, I'm sure that will make the massive numbers of boys who kill themselves so much happier.
The MRM doesn't need spineless and blind individuals, you're an insult to every male who's died from suicide.
[–]BeefsteakTomato 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If you look at the source study it doesn't count successful suicides as attempted suicides.
[–]Christophilies[🍰] -5 points-4 points-3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
moar liek ginacentric lololololol
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[+]WilliamGrand -21 points-20 points-19 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 21 points22 points23 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]blamethemeta 19 points20 points21 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 16 points17 points18 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]--Edog-- -20 points-19 points-18 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[+]GlobTwo -16 points-15 points-14 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]morerokk 12 points13 points14 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]GlobTwo 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]sennhauser 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]g_squidman -34 points-33 points-32 points (39 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 22 points23 points24 points (37 children) | Copy Link
[–]Source_or_gtfo 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points (19 children) | Copy Link
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[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points (17 children) | Copy Link
[–]g_squidman 3 points4 points5 points (16 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]cabose4prez 1 point2 points3 points (14 children) | Copy Link
[–]g_squidman 3 points4 points5 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]cabose4prez 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Ricwulf 2 points3 points4 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]cabose4prez -1 points0 points1 point (7 children) | Copy Link
[+]cabose4prez -8 points-7 points-6 points (13 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[+]cabose4prez -16 points-15 points-14 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 16 points17 points18 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]blackxxwolf3 6 points7 points8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]cabose4prez -9 points-8 points-7 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]cabose4prez 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]cabose4prez 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BeefsteakTomato 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Christophilies[🍰] -5 points-4 points-3 points (0 children) | Copy Link