Red pill teachings have made it impossible for me to trust my girlfriend. Seeking advice

avotoastisgreat · 2022-11-25T16:22:52+00:00

This is why the entire concept of female virginity is flawed and ridiculous to begin with. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You cannot hold a virginal woman on a pedestal while simultaneously wishing she were a freak in the sheets. You cannot place a higher value on women with a lower n count but also want to use up other women you deem as lower value for your personal pleasure. It's completely hypocritical. Women aren't objects for men to consume. Stop viewing your girlfriend within the context of womanhood. Women are not a hivemind. She's a completely unique person who has her own thoughts, feelings, needs, and aspirations.

It sounds like you have a conflict of interests within redpill and your religion. You need to decide which ideology is more important and adjust your beliefs and actions accordingly. If it's your religion, stop consuming any redpill content. It no longer serves you and doesn't aligns with what you believe.

domitori3 · 2022-11-25T15:15:24+00:00

First, let's talk about role models. Do any of this RP gurus have the relationship that you deem as desired? Because almost all of them are single losers. Would you take their advice on relationships then?

Stargazer1919 · 2022-11-25T15:31:02+00:00

She loves having guy friends. She had many before me and has gained more since being in a relationship with me. She even meets with these guys some times 1:1. Red pill guys always state a girl only has guy friends for attention so if she’s still having guy friends while dating me, then “I’m not enough”

She chose you. Why is that not enough?

She has a flirtatious personality. This is actually one flag irregardless of red pill teaching that I think is a no-no. But maybe I’m still being influenced by red pill here?

Her flirting is probably one of the reasons you are attracted to her. Do you expect her to change her personality for you?

She hasn’t had sex with me. Even though it’s for religious reasons I can’t get the words out of my head from red pill gurus saying “she doesn’t really love you if she doesn’t have sex with you”

Sounds like your faith and redpill are not compatible. Which is more important to you?

It's a contradiction with redpill, and misogyny in general. If she doesn't sleep with you, she's great for being a virgin but also a prude and doesn't love you. If she sleeps with you, she's a whore but also shows she loves you. She can't win either way.

She’s not “obsessed” with me. In fact for most parts of the relationship I initiate more. The one thing that she initiates more now (but only after having a conversation about it early on in our relationship) is talking on the phone. Again Red Pill screwed into my brain that a loyal woman is a woman who’s obsessed with you.

Obsession is usually a very unhealthy thing. There's ways to be loyal without being obsessed.

liisathorir · 2022-11-25T15:50:10+00:00

What would it take for you to trust her or women? Is there anything you think that could be done?

How much would she have to change herself for you?

Would you still like her if she did actually change herself for you, or do you like your idea of her more?

Do you trust men? If so, why do you trust men more than someone you want to marry?

Are you doing anything aside from this reddit post to change your views/opinions?

I wish you the best of luck because if you don’t change it really is this mentality that will do you harm in the long run. There have been some good comments on here and I hope you listen to some of them!

SweelFor- · 2022-11-25T15:32:48+00:00

I have a lot of things to say, so not all of it will be perfectly connected. This is my basic speech I post for people who ask "how do I move on from red pill mindset":

First, wherever you learned this from, cut it away. Unsubscribe from the youtube channels, unsubscribe from the subreddits, stop talking to the people who taught you this. Stop letting these ideas enter your brain. It will make the rest much easier.

Second, learn correct psychology. Misoginy, red pill ideas, etc, are incorrect psychology. The solution is to learn correct ideas instead, which is psychology.

I recommend you watch this channel and videos for example:

https://youtu.be/MrGgZTTL6pc

https://youtu.be/EwULU0jceDw

https://youtu.be/d04-3YOZV6Q

I recommend that you watch 10 videos. Then 20, then 50. However long you spent hearing incorrect ideas that led you to this mindset, spend as much time or more listening to good ideas that will lead you to a correct and healthy mindset.

Third, it is likely that you will need therapy to recover from this mindset and to learn how to form healthy relationships again.

Now some of the things I want to adress from your specific situation:

I simultaneously don’t fully trust her because me and her haven’t had sex (more on this below).

So while unconsciously I love that she’s a virgin, I also subconsciously wish she would have sex with me, even though for relgious reasons we have mutually decided not to have sex until marriage.

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. What exactly about not having sex because you both decided not to, makes you distrust her? I suppose, if you both agreed not to have sex, and then she forced it anyway, then it would make sense that you would not trust her. She is doing what you both agreed upon, so what is it that you do not trust?

I want to insist also on not using very vague, undefined psychology jargon that you probably picked up from red pill. If you can say "I love that she is a virgin", then it is not "unconscious" that you love that. And if you say that you wish she would have sex with you, then that is not "subconscious". Also, "unconscious" and "subconscious" mean the same thing.

Remove the pointless and vague words that you don't know how to use.

This is what is left: I love that she’s a virgin. I also wish she would have sex with me.

It is normal for some people who decide to not have sex for religious reasons, to still want to have sex. Their moral, religious, ethical, whatever reason to not have sex, does not erase libido and sexual attraction. That struggle is part of the choice you decided to make.

She loves having guy friends. She had many before me and has gained more since being in a relationship with me. She even meets with these guys some times 1:1. Red pill guys always state a girl only has guy friends for attention so if she’s still having guy friends while dating me, then “I’m not enough”

You're right, you're not enough. No individual person in the history of humanity has ever "been enough" for another human. Humans are social creatures. It is hard to say how much we are "supposed to" socialise, but for most people it is probably in the dozens of people we can socialise with.

For a monogamous person, one romantic partner is "enough" for their romantic relationship needs. That does not equate being enough for all of their social needs. Not having friends is much more of a "yellow flag" than having friends is. That is a big green flag.

Additionally, why are you categorising her friends by gender anyway? Do you also check who has blond or dark hair? Why gender? Why does it have to be relevant? You decide to make it relevant, because red pill has brainwashed you into believing that humanity is a game between men and women, and each group must be very attentive and divisive toward the other group.

What if you just said "she loves having friends"?

She has a flirtatious personality. This is actually one flag irregardless of red pill teaching that I think is a no-no. But maybe I’m still being influenced by red pill here?

A lot of people have a flirtatious personality, whatever that means exactly. What is the problem that this leads to, in actual reality? Has this negatively impacted your relationship in a real manner, or is this a vague, hypothetical problem? Why is it a yellow flag?

You decide what is a yellow flag or not. These are not universal values. Why do you decide that this is a yellow flag?

She hasn’t had sex with me. Even though it’s for religious reasons I can’t get the words out of my head from red pill gurus saying “she doesn’t really love you if she doesn’t have sex with you”

She hasn't had sex with you because you both decided not to. Are red pill gurus aware that there are asexual people who can still love their romantic partner? How do they define sex? What counts as sex or not? If she masturbates to sexual thoughts of you, does it count? If she touches you without penetration, does it count?

These are vague words. What do you think?

She’s not “obsessed” with me. In fact for most parts of the relationship I initiate more. The one thing that she initiates more now (but only after having a conversation about it early on in our relationship) is talking on the phone. Again Red Pill screwed into my brain that a loyal woman is a woman who’s obsessed with you.

That's great. Obsessions are a thought disorder. I have an obsessive tending personality and it sucks. I've only had one accute episode of obsession in my life, and it fucking sucked. For two weeks, almost all the time in my head I had a few sentences repeating about my girlfriend, and I couldn't make it stop. It was literally a nightmare and I'll never forget how it felt.

How about, a loyal woman is a loyal woman. How about going straight to the source: is she loyal. As far as what you've said, there is no reason to believe she isn't.

Naus1987 · 2022-11-25T17:14:28+00:00

Based on that title, I see “strangers on the internet are more trustworthy than the real person I’m dating.”

Ok, time to read it and see what I’m getting into!

thrifteddivacup · 2022-11-25T17:44:27+00:00

If your religion is like most religions, from that perspective keeping herself from engaging in sex means she respects both of your beliefs. It would be a red flag to say you believe in abstinence and then just do a 180 while still claiming to hold to that faith.

Also I am curious why virginity is so important for women in redpill thought when you aren't one. Is that not hypocritical?

I do wish you luck, redpill has given me a lot of trust issues as a woman, in a way that it's hard for me to understand my partner actually loves me and doesn't just see me as a means to an end as I feel many redpillers can be. Everyone just wants to avoid future pain, but there's no way to know what will even happen unless we let ourselves trust and try. It's helped to cut the content out, and keep going with the therapy!

BretEastonCellist · 2022-11-25T16:37:11+00:00

I'm a woman, not sure if I can be here but I have some responses to your points:

- She loves having guy friends. She had many before me and has gained more since being in a relationship with me. She even meets with these guys some times 1:1. Red pill guys always state a girl only has guy friends for attention so if she’s still having guy friends while dating me, then “I’m not enough”

In my experience as a not-so-good-looking girl, men tend to not want to speak to you unless they find you attractive. It's a very strange and perplexing thing for women because we don't choose friendships with men based on attraction at all. I think a lot of the paranoia around this comes from men projecting their behaviours onto women and assuming that women do the same. Many women have male friends they aren't remotely attracted to even if to you the men are 'objectively' attractive. I don't think that's true for men (wish it was). I can't think of a single one of my female friends who would go there with any of their male friends.

The view that 'women want attention' is an extremely sexist and dangerous viewpoint held by both men and women. I have heard several times about suicidal women 'doing it for attention'. It's really sad and shocking. So yes it's a red pill thing but it's also a wider society thing. Women actually want connection because it feels good to connect with people. It is almost always mistaken for the need for attention. I mention it's a wider society thing because although you might be filtering out red pill information, you might still be getting these messages from the media generally. It's a pretty toxic world.

- She has a flirtatious personality. This is actually one flag irregardless of red pill teaching that I think is a no-no. But maybe I’m still being influenced by red pill here?

That's her character. It's fine for her to be like that and it's also fine for you to not be comfortable with it. It's your call. Please be sure that she is actually being flirtatious and not just playful. People, especially younger people, confuse the two quite a lot. That being said, if you're not comfortable with it, that's fine. Flirting is fun but you need to work out where the boundaries are for you. An example wouldn't go amiss here.

- She hasn’t had sex with me. Even though it’s for religious reasons I can’t get the words out of my head from red pill gurus saying “she doesn’t really love you if she doesn’t have sex with you”

Compare "he doesn't really love you if he doesn't wait". It's just how it is. We all have these forms of advice to protect 'our kind' from 'the other'. Are you also religious? There may be compatibility issues here if you aren't. Is sex important to you? Be sure to have this discussion because for some religious people, sex only exists for procreational purposes. That means once you have kids, you're probably not going to be having sex again. Money, sex and emotions are the biggest areas where relationships fall apart. Talk to her. You should be really open with her. Tell her you're worried etc. It's a relationship. You need to relate.

- She’s not “obsessed” with me. In fact for most parts of the relationship I initiate more. The one thing that she initiates more now (but only after having a conversation about it early on in our relationship) is talking on the phone. Again Red Pill screwed into my brain that a loyal woman is a woman who’s obsessed with you.

The woman theredpill describes is the woman that I used to be. I was obsessed because I had no sense of self and I felt I was nothing, mainly because men had told me that (probably redpill men). That's not a person you want to have a relationship with. It's really scary that they teach this because obsession is a very dangerous mental and emotional state for women. If you love someone, you shouldn't want them to feel in a constant state of anxiety and need. It's also very juvenile - it's almost a disney film idea of love. It isn't love. That type of woman cannot love in that state because she doesn't even love herself. It's an emotionally underdeveloped self. You want a fully realised human being, stable with her own life who then chooses (not needs) to be with you. Your girlfriend sounds very together.

The best way to deal with this is to just be cognizant everyday that you are retraining your brain. Be open with your girlfriend. Say you have trust issues. Speaking, being heard etc. is all about relating to someone, so that's good.

It sounds really healthy but it's important to address the sexual incompatibilities. If sex is not important to her and it is to you, that's going to be a problem in your future. Have you tried finding a therapist?

Naus1987 · 2022-11-25T17:28:51+00:00

Alright, so green flags for you!

Willingness to talk about these things

Going to therapy

Acknowledging that other people would naturally be curious about the sex thing, and getting ahead of it to explain yourself honestly.

So we’re on a good start.

—-

As for the yellow flags. The only real one I see is the flirtatious personality. And even that would be debatable.

The guy friend one you can curb easily by actively trying to know these guys and be friends with them. Since you were observant enough to keep a lead on the curiosity for sex, perhaps you’ll be able to read these men and understand them better.

I think the sex flag is a farce, but I’m biased lol. My partner and I are both sexual. We don’t have sex with anyone, and we can have an amazing Disney PG relationship without sex. It doesn’t define us, and isn’t a requirement for love.

The flirtatious personality can be a flag though, but not in the way you think of it. Some people are just like that, and it doesn’t mean anything. It’s just a personality quirk.

Where it can be a flag, is that it bothers you. And if it bothers should, then she should be aware of it, and out of respect, she should adjust her behaviors (within reason) to be more respectful to you.

Men do it for women all the time. Ever play nice with an in-law or an annoying friend? There’s no harm in bending the knee out of respect. But it should be mutual. You’ll concede for her, and she should for you. If either of you stubbornly refuses to acknowledge or respect the other, then that’s a flag.

—-

As for being obsessed. This is another context one, and something where you can probably learn some more with your observations.

Think critically on WHY she’s with you. What are your qualities that won her over. What do you provide the relationship? And how does she benefit from being with you compared to being single or dating another person.

If you won her over with looks and money, then red pill is probably right and she may jump ship for someone else who has more money or better looks.

But if you won her over with your personality, your charm and character — then you’ll be loyal to you. If she fell in love with your soul, then she’ll love only you. Only you can have your soul and no one else will ever compare.

The reverse applies too. Did you fall for her because of her soul, or was it just looks?

If you can understand WHY people do the things they do, it’ll go a long way into seeing where they’ll go in the future.

Build a solid foundation, and the towers will last a lifetime.

Academic_Type624 · 2022-11-26T09:24:18+00:00

If you are marrying a woman who isn't having sex before marriage due to her religious beliefs, cheating on you is unlikely to fit with her beliefs as well.

Ways to build a solid relationship. Communication. Talk to each other about your hopes and fears. Working together to achieve shared goals. Its good to have interests that don't involve your partner, its healthy to have other friends and on a practical level means you can enjoy the time you have together more.

UpperAssumption7103 · 2022-11-25T17:58:47+00:00

are you conflating flirtatious with a bubbly personality? If you don't trust her: break up. a relationship (almost all) must be built on trust. She has a life. Most women have lives. They have jobs, friends, hobbies. Also how can you say you are planning to marry her when you don't trust her. I want her to sleep with me b/c she would if she like me. Nope. If she's religious(God is more important that you and will always be) Also the redpill is diametrically opposed to biblical teaching about a relationship. i.e a man should lead. Therefore she's following your lead. Even if she was not religious (a lot women after being burned or seeing other women burned) don't obsess over a men b/c they have lives. Redpill has this weird notion that women were doing nothing all day (they didn't have jobs, education, families, lives or money). All women were destitute before they were finally rescued by a man. (sarcasm of course).

Yesm3can · 2022-11-25T20:24:21+00:00

I have been married for a few years now and I was a virgin too when I got married. Husband and I did not have 'till death do us part' in our wedding vows or 'in sickness and in health', because if someone wants to stay, they will stay. If someone does not want to stay, but feeling obliged because of some vows, they will stay but resentment will grow. Nothing worse than being at one's lowest and being resented by a partner to add to that. I am still with my man because I want to and he stays, because he too still wants it. Any of us are free to leave anytime we want to.

Writing that to adress your concern about how some long term monogamous couples are unhappy, but are somehow still together. Some of those couples who are together because both still want to, are very very happy.

You said that you cannot trust your GF's loyalty...then it does not make sense to be with her, right? Will you go to a dentist you do not trust to do root canals? Of course not, there are other dentists. It is not even about loyalty as in not cheating on you, is it? When people talk about loyalty, what many of them mean is that they are afraid to be left. Your partner can just suddenly wake up and no longer love you and decided to leave instead of wasting your and their time...and that is still loyalty.

Tell me what negative things would have happened if your GF or in the future, your wife, left you? Will you suddenly stop breathing and die because of it? No. Being left is not like having cardiac arrest. Will you lose your job? No. Being left is not like working at Lehman Brothers. Will you lose your life savings? Your retirements? No. Being left is not like investing in some random crypto.

Maybe start with that. So she might leave, she might stay. Either way, you will continue to live your life.

Also obsessed women and obsessed men are both bad news. For people who like to call themselves 'logical' red pillers often want some illogical, emotionally Disney-like thing. You'd do well to avoid obsessive people.

xvszero · 2022-11-25T21:31:57+00:00

Do you actually want to wait until marriage? You're talking like it's a mutual decision but it sounds like you don't really want to.

SophiaPhilae · 2022-11-26T09:44:59+00:00

She loves having guy friends. She had many before me and has gained more since being in a relationship with me. She even meets with these guys some times 1:1. Red pill guys always state a girl only has guy friends for attention so if she’s still having guy friends while dating me, then “I’m not enough”

It's actually a green flag! That means she's more likely to 1) understand you can keep friends while being in a relationship, and with people of the gender she's attracted to, which is a solid foundation for a healthy relationship in which you don't expect each other to be your only emotional support, and without the need to be controlling about friends 2) be aware of what it's like to be a man for real, rather than from fiction (especially romance, ugh, this genre is super sexist) or only through family and the public spectacular acts (positive or negative) of a few men.

She has a flirtatious personality. This is actually one flag irregardless of red pill teaching that I think is a no-no. But maybe I’m still being influenced by red pill here?

Hard to know what you mean by flirtatious exactly though, because TRP could be distorting what you perceive as being so. Is it really flirting, or just being friendly towards men? Are you including in that replying to banter with guy friends? True, some of said friends could get the wrong message, but it's on them, as they don't get wrong messages when they're being homoerotic with the boys. Also, depending on where you live, if gender roles are especially stringent, women might be expected to always be nice and even a little flirtatious towards men.

She hasn’t had sex with me. Even though it’s for religious reasons I can’t get the words out of my head from red pill gurus saying “she doesn’t really love you if she doesn’t have sex with you”

It might be interesting to brush up on compulsory sexuality.

She’s not “obsessed” with me. In fact for most parts of the relationship I initiate more. The one thing that she initiates more now (but only after having a conversation about it early on in our relationship) is talking on the phone. Again Red Pill screwed into my brain that a loyal woman is a woman who’s obsessed with you.

So, it's good she's not obsessed with you, because people who are at first might wildly change when they get out of that phase and suddenly get way more distant and even fearful and hostile because they showed too much of themselves to someone they don't actually trust. What's more interesting in what you say is how you're the one who has to initiate a lot. Smells like gender roles and honest to good early relationship frustration here! But you've communicated about it and she's trying to fix it somewhat, so that's something positive. Knowing about the chaste until marriage thing too, I wonder how conservative-minded she is though. If this comes with specific, gendered expectations for you and her, and reality cannot correspond to them (eg. because of the economy you can't be a provider, or she's repressing needs, or she imposes a certain view of masculinity on you), then things will get complicated and conflicted down the line.

lilium-fox · 2022-11-28T21:20:01+00:00

A woman who is obsessed, would be mentally ill or suffer some personality disorder. Mentally healthy people don't get obsessed with others. It stems from attachment trauma as well.

The most important thing is, that you can be open and vulnerable with eachother. That you respect eachother and make compromises and work as a team on your relationship. Things like these build trust.

tinasnow-poty · 2022-11-25T17:07:35+00:00

You’ve put her in an impossible situation here. If she has sex with you, you automatically value her lower, because she’s had sex. If she doesn’t have sex with you, she doesn’t “really” love you. What do you want her to do here?

I will say if she’s decided to be a virgin till marriage her faith is clearly very important to her. You will have to come to terms with the fact you will never be above her faith, which I think is normal amongst religious people. If you’re not okay with that, dip. But wanting her to contradict her personal values to make you happy is actually a bigger red flag than her sticking to her own principles. If her principles are abstinence, loyalty and faith she will always pick them, which is an advantage for you. But if she bends them for the right guy, well who knows what will happen if she finds someone “better”. Just another perspective.

BuiltForTruth · 2022-11-26T01:20:53+00:00

The relevant recent research indicates that women need more variety and get bored faster in romantic relationships than men do (which is opposite of what red pill and patriarchy teaches). So the most likely time for her to cheat, if she does, is after you marry and "lock her in." Since you got to sow your oats but she did not. Trust me, she will resent you for this. Maybe not now, but in 3 years? 5? 10? The chance of her cheating on you is high in this scenario.

Mekyke_Bradford · 2022-11-25T17:03:12+00:00

“• She loves having guy friends”

It depends, but I’d say yes. Having close guy friends is a red flag that could definitely lead to cheating, but that’s not really something that you can control. They could be her other options just in case you two don’t work out, but you’ll just have to perform better than those guys & be the best that she can do.

“• She has a flirtatious personality”

Definitely a red flag if she’s flirtatious with other guys. So you can either do two things. 1) tell her that you’re uncomfortable with her being flirtatious with other guys & if she gets mad or upset by you saying that, then she isn’t right for you. 2) outperform the other guys & just be more attractive.

“• She hasn’t had sex with me”

If she wasn’t religious & she hasn’t had sex with you yet, then yeah, it’d be a red flag. If she was really attracted to you, then she wouldn’t hesitate or waste any time doing it with you. But she’s religious & that makes more sense. Perhaps she really is dedicated & respectful of her religious commitments.

“• She’s not “obsessed” with me. Again, Red Pill screwed into my brain that a loyal woman is a woman who’s obsessed of you.”

I mean yeah. It’s true. Does she really like you a lot? If not, then that’s a Red flag.

“All of this has made it impossible to be open & vulnerable with my girlfriend because deep down I don’t trust her.”

It’s not a her problem, it’s you. If she’s flirtatious with other guys & not solely flirtatious with you, perhaps you’re not the type of guy worth solely being flirtatious with. If she’s not obsessed of you, maybe your not the type of guy worth obsessing over. I’m not saying all of this to be a jerk, & I understand you disagree with the Red Pill as a whole, but maybe some of what they’re saying about these things are true & you shouldn’t be beating yourself up for actually being aware of these things now & knowing these truths that RP has provided you like many of these exredpill people. Btw, I’m not RP either, but I also believe in some of the things they teach & I give credit to all belief systems even if I disagree with them.

As far as what should you do now, I think that’s ultimately up to you, but if you ask me, you shouldn’t take it any further. She should be flirtatious with only you, yet she’s flirtatious with other guys. She’s not obsessed with you in the sense that she probably doesn’t like you that much. Also, you two sound ultimately incompatible. Giving that she’s religious & you’re not. If you’re in your early 20s, more reasons not to get married so young. But if you still choose to stay & take things further, my only advice for you would just be to perform better (especially more than those guy friends that she apparently likes), become more attractive & get your life in order before thinking about getting married at all.

Artistic_Chip · 2022-11-25T16:54:55+00:00

In a serious relationship, ur gf shouldn't be hanging out with other dudes one on one.

absolutebeginners · 2022-11-25T15:10:55+00:00

[permanently deleted]

AutoModerator · 2022-11-25T23:10:38+00:00

You are very lucky to be dating a religious virgin. Having grown up as a conservative Christian, I can attest that virginity is valued in both women AND men. Most religious virgins ("good girls") won't date/marry a man who has been with other women. Be thankful for what you have.

2022-11-25T23:50:06+00:00

Change your user name. You're clearly not BuiltforTruth, unless it's the kind of "truth" redpill offers.

AutoModerator · 2022-11-26T00:38:27+00:00

If he is this distrustful of her for simply having male friends (when he admits to having female friends) he is probably projecting and actually cheating on her.

Why are there so many redpillers on EXredpill??? Maybe this isn't the subreddit for me. I thought this subreddit was for guys coming out of it and wanting to get better, wanting to learn and be educated, not double down on their misogynistic viewpoints and double standards. So many posts just have triggering, misogynistic crap in them, not people in good faith looking for help.

I'm worried for his gf. She probably has no idea what actually goes through his head about her.

BuiltForTruth · 2022-11-25T16:51:39+00:00

so why have you guys not have had sex yet?

PermissionGlass9203 · 2022-11-25T20:28:58+00:00

I am just going to keep it real with you bro. That girl isn't what you ideally would want her to be. I know it hurts deep down mind, soul and spirit. To me, those are brazen and "IN YOUR FACE" red flags you wouldn't want in not just your potential wife to be but any girl whom you might think is decent enough for a committed relationship.

First of all, the fact that she's comfortable keeping even more guys around and she knows deep down those guys would quickly jump on the chance she gives them to sleep with her. This by itself speaks so much of her character as a "Christian" who's keeping "pure" b4 marriage. It also shows she doesn't respect you or the relationship at all. She's keeping her options open just in case y'all break up and she actually gets a strong man to put her in her place.

Secondly, you mentioned she's loves being flirtatious and if she's does this even in your presence shows that you could simply be an end to a means for her and once she's achieved her agenda she disposes of you. She knows you either don't have high standards and expectations for yourself and the relationship or you choose not to act on them out of fear you'd lose out on a walking red flag? So she's using this as leverage against you to walk all over you as she pleases without penalty.

Thirdly, even she's not obsessed with you then that's why she's keep guy friends around because they might seem more fun for her. Getting all the free male attention and validation to stroke her "pious" ego. A woman who has no true desire to want to be with you and make all men around her invisible is honestly not a woman investing your value in. She'll do what she has to do while using religion as a high horse to continue making you not see past the blatant BS on display. To me that's super UNACCEPTABLE but to each their own.

To conclude, you need to lose yourself sometimes to find yourself. You might want to reconsider the course of this relationship in the long run but you need to heal within fully if you have to before sharing yourself with another. Mat God open your eyes to see and ears to hear. Brother.

sajohnson · 2022-11-25T20:10:40+00:00

You should break up with her. For her sake.

You’re going to wreck the relationship with your jealousy anyway, so why not just get it over with now?

lilycamilly · 2022-11-25T15:43:34+00:00

I would absolutely advise you start seeing a therapist if you are able, I'm a big proponent of therapy and a therapist can be a wonderful sounding board for these thoughts that bounce around your head like these. RP content/teachings has wired your brain in a certain way, and it will take time and effort to rewire yourself so that you don't jump to these conclusions.

Instead of thinking, "Why is my girlfriend spending time with other men? She must not think I'm enough", you can think, "How cool is it that my girlfriend is so well-rounded she gets along well with all genders, and has the strong moral foundation and self-control to not cheat on me"

Instead of thinking "I wish my girlfriend would have sex with me, I feel like she doesn't love me if she doesn't", try thinking, "My girlfriend has a very strong moral code to stick to her beliefs on what's best for herself, this is something we've agreed on and I'm proud of her resilience with holding true to these boundaries". (Also, for this one, I know y'all agreed to wait until marriage, and definitely don't pressure her to do anything if she doesn't want to, but you can always talk to her about it. You can tell her "I know you've been wanting to wait until marriage, and I really don't want to put pressure on you, but I just love you so much and am so attracted to you I wish we could have sex sooner than that, but I understand if you're not comfortable with that. Just putting it out there")

On her flirtatiousness, you can think, "My girlfriend is so fun and warm and welcoming to people, but still has the strength to be loyal to me, how dynamic of her!". If her flirtatious behavior is pretty extreme (I'd say if she's calling other men sexy, implying she's into them, not shutting things down if men come on to her, etc), please have an honest conversation with her about how these things bother you. If she is dismissive of your feelings, this could be a sign of a long-term incompatibility.

With the 'obsession' thing, you can think, "My girlfriend has a full life, I may be the most important part/person in it but I'm not the ONLY thing in it, I love that she has other friends and hobbies and passions, and I understand she's a multifaceted person and I can't take all her time and attention". Remember, love is about way more than being 'obsessed' with each other. It's about the continuing agreement to love each other and be a team every day. Obsessive behavior can be very flattering, but overall it's not healthy to obsess over each other in a relationship, it's not a very mature thing to expect. Once again, you can be the #1 thing/person in each other's life without being the ONLY thing in their life.

I hope you find this helpful, friend. Relationships are weird, but good communication, understanding, and trust in each other is what carries you through the long-haul. Be honest and gentle with her about how you feel, your preconceived ideas RP has taught you that you're trying to kick, everything. If you want to marry her some day, you'll need to be ok with truly bearing your soul to her, and she should do the same for you.

BuiltForTruth · 2022-11-25T16:01:34+00:00

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WikiSummarizerBot · 2022-11-25T19:45:25+00:00

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PadThai42 · 2022-11-25T20:29:15+00:00

Almost every ideology has good and bad. You can learn how to make those distinctions and not blame someone or something else.

2022-11-25T22:23:52+00:00

Do YOU have female friends?

Do YOU flirt with other women?

If she had sex, you'd consider her a wh0re and s!ut (although you aren't a virgin yourself) so she can't win.

Are YOU obsessed with HER? Is it healthy for anyone to be OBSESSED with another person?

Available-Ad-9338 · 2022-11-25T22:35:59+00:00

She loves having guy friends. She had many before me and has gained more since being in a relationship with me. She even meets with these guys some times 1:1. Red pill guys always state a girl only has guy friends for attention so if she’s still having guy friends while dating me, then “I’m not enough”

Do you have female friends? Are you willing to cut off all contact with your female friends if your girlfriend told you to? Are you planning to cheat on your girlfriend with your female friends? What's with the double standard? She could just as easily accuse you of cheating. Is she meeting her guy friends in public places (coffee shops etc.) or hanging out at their place alone?

She has a flirtatious personality. This is actually one flag irregardless of red pill teaching that I think is a no-no. But maybe I’m still being influenced by red pill here?

What exactly do you mean by "flirtatious"? I'm willing to bet that she's just nice and friendly to everyone, including men, and you're viewing that as flirting. Being polite, making small talk and smiling isn't flirting.

She hasn’t had sex with me. Even though it’s for religious reasons I can’t get the words out of my head from red pill gurus saying “she doesn’t really love you if she doesn’t have sex with you”

If you didn't love anyone you had sex with before you met your girlfriend, then why do you believe that your girlfriend not having sex with you indicates lack of love? You just proved that having sex didn't mean love to you.

Quite frankly, if you are constantly accusing your girlfriend of cheating without valid reason, then do her a favor and break up with her.

DanMarinosDolphins · 2022-11-25T23:18:03+00:00

I think it might be better to focus on the real reasons you sought out an ideology to confirm things you already wanted and believed.

You should focus on learning to be more introspective about why you feel and want things. You should focus on understanding boundaries and needs, asking for what you want, vetting for compability, knowing your personal reg flags and deal breakers.

It's also human to want things that contradict each other. Part of being an adult is make tough decisions about what part of your desires you're going to honor and what part you're going to deny.

Normal_Egg_3469 · 2022-11-26T01:00:41+00:00

Think for yourself and stop blaming random advice on the internet that YOU chose to listen to. I’m pretty sure no one forced you to digest that information. I’m also willing to bet no one mentored you on the advice either, which means, you interpreted it in your on way; so quit looking to blame random information on the internet that YOU decided to listen to and take accountability. Take accountability rather than saying: “I can’t help but fixate on yellow flags that I wouldn’t even label yellow flags if it wasn’t in the red pill manosphere for so long.” If something goes wrong with your girlfriend are you going to own up to your mistake or are you going to tell her: “red pill told me this.”

As for your girlfriend: she’s a virgin, never kissed anyone, saving herself for marriage. You noticed certain behaviors that you may disagree with or do actually agree? I ask because you keep going back to random information on the internet rather than thinking for yourself.

No one is perfect. She has flaws just like you and everyone else on this planet. Talk to her about your boundaries so the two of you can decide whether to progress forward or go separate ways.

MissPolymath · 2022-11-26T07:01:28+00:00

As a female who is a committed Christian, studied red pill teaching for years, and was a trained under a female relationship coach who helps women build healthy relationships with masculine men, here are my two cents:

I have found many truths within Red Pill, but as with any other ideology, it contains truth but doesn't have a monopoly on it. There are plenty examples from other viewpoints that can contradict

Guys friends. I would argue in general FOR BOTH GENDERS that having lots of friends of the opposite sex is a red flag. Most people cannot have really close friendships with the opposite sex without there being some kind of agenda, attention seeking, or feelings sparking up behind it.

But I know for me as a woman I have lots of guy friends, not necessarily because I want to be with them but because i have struggled before of the attention they provide. Those are two completely different things. I've seen men do it as well with girls. Attention seeking? While not the best trait it isn't the same thing as cheating or promiscuity. Personally a better indicator would be to gauge how close she is with these guys, how the she became friends with them originally, and whether they are attractive or not. All attractive? Potential red flag. Really close friends? Potential red flag? Childhood best friend? All good. Casual acquantiences? Should be ok.

Some people are flirtatious by nature. But then again, having lots of guys friends plus being flirty could indicate something. Do you see her doing this with everybody or just with guys?
I trained under a coach who successfully had her female clients to get into relationships with masculine men. Much of her reaching lined up with lot of what the red pill said, but the difference is she had the women apply it to themselves and that was what caused them to get the men they wanted. Many of these women had already tried behaving in ways the red pill teaches men to do and how women supposedly should respond to earn that man.

And for many of her clients, those behaviors actually drove the men away. Do you think if these behaviors are healthy and meant for one gender that wouldn't happen but instead compel men to be driven closer? Her results and what I saw showed the opposite.

She taught concepts like be the prize, the men intiate dating and relationships, and even putting out a bit. In my own experience I have known women who put themselves first before a man, held out on sex, having boundaries, and it made the men respect, give to them more, and be happier. And these women are incredibly happy and have fantastic relationships. I have seen this in my own relationship as well. Much of the advice the red pill teaches to men does indeed work with women. But I argue from experience it works both ways and are skills and effects that work on humans in general. They aren't exclusive to one gender.

My point in saying all of this is that you blindly just believe everything red pill teaches for the few things demonstrated to work. What it gets wrong is that not evrything they teach is healthy or only works for men.

While women are on average more emotional than men, saying these behaviors indicating desire for sex are the only ways to demonstrate genuine desire ignores that many women are not uber feminine and still have a capacity to have independent and intelligent thought to rise above their impulses and restrain their behavior.

Plenty of women exercise restraint in their daily lives. Examples are not difficult to find. I know two women who could have left their deadbeat husbands for better loves or better men, and who chose to stay committed on principle anyway. They are role models to me. I have been able to exercise restraint based upon my religious convictions to sleep with men from my work or the gym, some arguably hotter than my boyfriend? Was it a struggle? Yes. Did I still say no? Yes. I have not cheated on my man once. And when a lot of this happened, he wasnt the best boyfriend he could have been to help it either. It is this same willpower and independent thinking that had also kept me a virgin and say no to my boyfriend, even when I wanted to jump him really bad. I have not ever experienced loss of love or attraction towards him because of it.

Again, obsession is wonderful, but this genuine desire goes for both genders, not just one. It is a sign a man can value a woman as a much as it is a sign a woman can value you. If you are initiating more than her, it doesnt necessarily drive her away or mean she values you less. Personally, I feel more turned on and attracted towards a man if he is obsessed with me and initiating more. I have never felt that by doing the opposite.

Also, no one human being will EVER have the energy to sustain obsession 100%. Life happens: babies, hormones, stress, work, etc. Try to cultivate it as much as you can, but if you can't trust someone to still want to be with you on principle and be sincere in their motives, I think you have unrealistic expectations and are setting yourself and her up for failure. No human being has ever been able to sustain that. And not all women allow themselves to be driven by their negative feelings 100% and just upp and leave when ebbs and flows arise in the relationship.

I hope this makes sense and is helpful to you.

I_am_here_to_party · 2022-11-26T10:28:05+00:00

I think everybody else covered most points I’ll just add one thing. You’ll never fully be able to trust anyone who isn’t you. That’s just inevitable no matter how great of a partner you have.

With that being said you can always trust that you yourself will be able to handle betrayal if it were to ever happen and move on.

If you’ve chosen this person then you must at least trust them for the most part. That’s all you can really hope for.

Unless you’ve been given an explicit reason not to trust someone there’s no need to stress about something you can’t control.

Sad_Apple_1911 · 2022-11-26T12:37:28+00:00

Being obsessed is a sign of insecure attachment. It’s not healthy.

RareMathematician815 · 2022-11-28T16:38:44+00:00

You're clearly in it for the long term... So here's the question. Can you imagine what 20 years of marriage looks like?

The sheer madness of knowing every single annoying thing about a person, right from the things they suck at to the way they sulk/get mad, and still choose to be with them day after day?

To love even when you don't like... That's the foundation of any solid relationship. Can you do that for her? Do you honestly believe she can do that for you?

If the answer to those is yes, then none of your bullet points really matter.

DoctorNerf · 2022-12-21T00:45:13+00:00

I’m only just looking into these things so I’m not too familiar but I just want to say it’s pretty ordinary to not be comfortable with your S/O 1-1’ing with other men. I’m a pretty ordinary guy, I don’t think I could find a single man in my life that would be 100% chill with it.

I’d say that one is just a conversation to be had as a couple. You can bring these things up to your partner and discuss, it’s sort of how a relationship works. Everyone has boundaries and preferences.

The rest of your points seem like you’re probably overthinking things a bit much:

Flirtatious is very subjective and often confused with simple friendliness and social prowess. Unless it is like, insanely obvious, to the point where people you know and trust are bringing it up to you, then 99% sure you’re good here.
You can’t want someone to be a virgin until marriage and want to have sex with them before marriage. Well you can, because you do, but it makes no logical sense.
People don’t need to be obsessed with you to definitely love you and be loyal to you. And “healthy obsession”, if there is such a thing, presents itself in different ways for different people. I despise phone calls, and have actively stopped relationships forming based solely and entirely on people wanting to always talk to me on the phone. You like phone calls. Both are fine, neither represent presence or absence of obsession.

G_Sniper · 2022-12-21T11:53:15+00:00

Red pill father and husband here. Married 8 ½ years and an awesome son 7 years old.

There's such a thing as too far right also. I've balanced the red pill inside with the Bible. Too be honest I've slept with and dated over 19 women over years before finding my wife.

If you're having a hard time trusting her, it's either one of two things. She's not the match for you, OR your trust issues are too far gone and you need to work on them before you work on a relationship.

If you manage to have trust in friendships, family relationships, coworkers or a mixture of them. Chances are you're sub conscious is holding you back for a reason and you're not willing to face the Elephant in the room quite yet. and you're trying to pretend it's not there but whatever it is, is going to eat at you until you face it.

I was engaged 5 years. Went to learn driving semi truck, came back to an empty apartment. And her begging to take her back. Total 8 years invested in that girl. Which is fine, no regrets. Because I've learned.

Met my wife a year later on E-harmony and 3 months later we were married. Most things that were very important that created that trust, she ticked the box on each one, it was an entirely different feeling and this was with a girl in my eyes that was an 8-9.. when most girls I dated were like 4-5. So at first I thought theres no way. But yes way. She was legit, something about her makes me feel 1000% if I have to go back over the road to support our family worse case scenario, she'll be at home with our kid waiting for me to get back and fill me in what I missed.

Whereas other girls, I have to be honest .. all the other 19 of them I always had a gut feeling they'd just run and leave out of boredom of our relationship because I'm not a complicated over dramatic guy and not out at bars every night or that I don't drink. Or that when extra work comes up i take it to put it towards nice gifts for my kids, wife or family. I'm simple, I don't go extreme one way or the other.

Best advice if you want to end up happily married? Trust your gut, and approach situations with a calm collective demeanor while trying to calmy find the truth. Don't let the truth upset you either because it is what it is. And don't be afraid to face what's making you worried the relationship is over. Why? Because personally I regret ignoring gut feelings like "her family hates me secretly, she is flirting and doing things inappropriately with co workers, she's super defensive and gets angry with questions like (do you mind if I drop you off instead of car pooling with Jim to work alone because it makes me uncomfortable)

My wife now? I don't have to worry because she's on the same wave length, not forced, coerced or manipulated either. Just legit, hey this is how I feel on boundaries that are healthy for a relationship, and she said some that I also absolutely agree with. Her family respects and loves our marriage and support it and don't secretly talk about anything behind anyones back. I love and respect that.

Don't waste your time while your young. While yes, we've had arguments and yelling fights we always come back and I can trust we'll get through them. We never call names or never hit. And we never do any of that in front of our child. We've had slight variations in parenting but nothing we can't work through.

But in the end I wish I would have been quicker about approaching the elephant in the room and just asking for the truth. Because that would have saved me time. Did it hurt when truth came out? Oh fucking yes it did my friend, shattered a few times even. But looking back. I'd not sleep with a goddess if it meant hurting my wife, or being unfaithful because she's my world and even after 8 almost 9 years of ups and downs. Not giving up on our marriage and working through it, we are doing amazing. And I'm sure we'll have bumps in the future.

And to wrap up the entire point of a red pill relationship, it's about respect. Both ways mind you.

*Does she respect your time? *Does she respect your feelings about hanging out with men alone? (Granted you're not married so until you are you can't really be angry about it but more so hurt because she doesn't respect that about you.)

Sounds like you have some common ground that are decent but honestly a woman who can't share the same viewpoint on respectful boundaries means she probably isn't right for you. Because marriage is a sacrifice. It means you don't get to casually flirt and do what single people always do.

If you're looking for a good time with kissing holding hands, and practicing being in a relationship that tests your patience. Sounds like you've found a thing to do.

If you're looking for a marriage, women who are interested in marrying you don't act like that. And if they do, well your beliefs are not compatible.. keep searching.

californiawaves23 · 2023-01-02T19:19:57+00:00

“She loves having guy friends and even meets with them 1:1”

I’m gonna give you the alcohol no chaser… this a huge red flag UNLESS she invites you to meet with these guys and is never at all offended or defensive if you ask to tag along and meet them. If she has never offered or would take offense to you asking to meet… really think deep about what that says.

I have girl friends which at times I do meet… however I’d ALWAYS invite my significant other and offer it up no hesitating. Good luck, remember, your peace and tranquility is more important than anything else.

God bless

Title	Red pill teachings have made it impossible for me to trust my girlfriend. Seeking advice
Author	BuiltForTruth
Upvotes	33
Comments	167
Date	November 25, 2022 2:27 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/z4enqi/red_pill_teachings_have_made_it_impossible_for_me/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/red-pill-teachings-have-made-it-impossible-for-me.1141914 https://theredarchive.com/post/1141914

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