"Men create men's problems so men can't complain!"

Jip_Jaap_Stam · 2026-02-25T09:45:02+00:00

The same sort of thing gets said about black people being victims of violence. In the UK, black youths are disproportionately more likely to be the victim or perpetrator of knife crime. When normal people point this out as an example of the issues faced by black Brits, bigots say stuff like, "Well, they're getting stabbed by other black people, so it's their fault".

Obviously such attitudes are racist. Just as the "men are getting killed by other men!" dismissal is sexist.

king_rootin_tootin · 2026-02-25T09:11:56+00:00

I literally hear them say this about child abuse in single mother households

I as a man shouldn't complain about that because men caused it. How? Well... because they "let women be the primary caregiver" 🤦🏽‍♂️

That's a literal modern feminist argument I hear for them blaming child abuse in single mother households on men. These people are sociopaths

AdOtherwise3824 · 2026-02-25T05:23:47+00:00

It is abusive. Full stop. See them for what they are, and it becomes much easier to just brush them off. And yeah, the "who created it," "who does it?" etc dialogue is psychopathic. It is 100% generalizing over all men, no matter how they want to pretend otherwise (whilst bashing you for misogyny when you never talked about women, ofc).

One thing that is so aggravating is you state basic stats to demonstrate how men can be harmed. And instead of recognizing it and integrating it into their model of the world, it's weaponized. It's so gross.

MonkeyCartridge · 2026-02-25T05:45:48+00:00

This sort of thing might work when it's a small niche group causing problems for other members of that niche group. Gang violence against other gangs. Billionaires vs billionaires.

But men are half the population. They keep wanting us to be some niche group that acts like a single social movement or something.

Punder_man · 2026-02-25T08:14:19+00:00

I see people clutching repeatedly to the narrative that women always have it worse than men, specifically, that women are not safe walking the streets at night whereas men are, but that is simply statistically not true. I am 4x more likely to be murdered and 3x more likely to be physically assaulted than a woman is. Every time I bring that up, I am accused of having a victim mentality and brushed off by the fact the person theoretically murdering/assaulting me is likely male.

Its funny how they will rely on "Statistics" when it benefits the narrative they want to push, a classic being the over violent crime statistics and how its "Men" committing violence against women and thus they are justified in treating ALL men as dangerous because of it..

Yet when you dig deeper you will find that the majority of violence women face is at the hands of men they KNOW often family, boy friend, co-workers etc
So according to those statistics, women are actually SAFER with a completely unknown man than they are with a man they do know..

But they ignore this because it doesn't mesh with the narrative they want to push of ALL men being dangerous.

OrcOfDoom · 2026-02-25T06:57:04+00:00

It's a low effort answer. That happens a lot on the Internet.

rammo123 · 2026-02-25T06:56:41+00:00

"By other men" is just the misandric version of "black on black violence".

AdProper1500 · 2026-02-25T07:23:22+00:00

That's why I think men should have a unified identity as men. They should unite and think of themselves as a group. Not only will this make men be more empathetic towards other men but also they will be more careful of their treatment towards “not-men”.

Phuxsea · 2026-02-25T17:16:44+00:00

Perfect post. I absolutely detest this argument that all male suffering is excusable because it's caused by other men in most cases. Collective punishment and collective blame are never justifiable in a just world, even if the group collectively blamed is white people.

There are issues that women face that are overwhelmingly caused by women. Overwhelming majority of female genital cutting or FGM practices are done by women. After the ban in Gambia, it was an old woman who continues to practice against the law and it's a leather jacket wearing motorcyclist man who is actively trying to end the practice. When Gambia Banned Female Genital Cutting, a Defiant 96-Year-Old Resisted - The New York Times

FlaiderX · 2026-02-25T05:22:22+00:00

It's just not profitable for them to spend time and effort looking at the problem objectively. If they started looking at the problem from the perspective of the individual rather than the group dynamics, it would cast doubt on most of their claims and attacks on men. Now it would be impossible to say that all men are potential rapists. Now it would be more difficult for them to resist various male assistance programs. They just don't want to share the media space. As far as I can tell, although many feminists blame patriarchy and men for all the troubles, what they really need to fight is capitalism. But the bottom line is that now many feminists and women's organizations benefit from capitalism. They receive millions and billions of dollars annually to solve the "problems" of women. Acknowledging men's problems would mean that now they would have to share, and they don't want to share. Well, this is one of the main reasons for such an attitude towards men's problems, in my opinion.

I recently discovered two subreddits dedicated to Gynarchy/Gynarchism (you can find them yourself). There they believe that women are naturally the best leaders and society should be run by women. I don't understand how such people go to such extremes, because it is clear to any reasonable person that groups of men and women are not a monolith and we should evaluate a person by their abilities, not their gender in the first place. But in those subreddits, they believe that they are doing a good thing and it will be better than the patriarchy. They just accuse men of having wars, violence, and believe that if women were at the helm, everything would be peaceful. It's a relationship now. On the one hand, they denigrate men and their abilities (well, as an example, that men cannot lead without violence, etc., which is obviously a lie), then they translate this discourse into the fact that women suffer more from men. And then everything, the problems of men are hushed up because they have already been denigrated and exposed as the world's evil and culprits. It's much harder to empathize with such a group, isn't it?

It's hypocritical and harsh, and it hurts me. Now some are starting to talk about peaceful matriarchy and gynarchy and accuse men of everything again. I'm tired of reading this, but on the other hand, after a decade of feminist brainwashing and an anti-male agenda, you wouldn't expect any other attitude.

House-of-Suns · 2026-02-25T14:51:18+00:00

I remember reading a while back that only 1 in 400 men are guilty of committing violent crimes. If you were do make 399 other people somehow responsible for the actions of 1 person in any other social group, society would very rightly call it discrimination.

Cunari · 2026-02-25T16:57:54+00:00

And which gender is the primary one for teaching early education and raising young children to create those men?

ExternalGreen6826 · 2026-02-25T05:42:38+00:00

If I get shot it really doesn’t mean much more to me that I get shot by a man or a woman

Also it’s really poor as a look in a discussion about men’s pain to centre men’s misdeeds as a sort of argumentative quip

It’s as useful as talking about how slur shaming when young is predominantly enforced by mothers

It’s just victim blaming with extra steps

It also centres the wrong questions, it leaves it at the very stupid “because men did it duh” and doesn’t really investigate men as VICTIMS, “why do men get shot in a homicide”?

Just a bad faith argument on this one from feminists in my opinion

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2026-02-25T15:28:07+00:00

And most FGM is carried out by other women, yet somehow that still gets to be considered gender violence.

Also, if men killing women is misogyny by default, by the same logic, internalized misandry is a bigger problem than misogyny.

Dark_Prince_of_Chaos · 2026-02-25T16:30:40+00:00

They use the Darvo manipulation strategy to avoid accountability.

Slow_Seesaw9509 · 2026-02-25T20:35:05+00:00

Many feminists also have a blind spot for the ways women uphold and contribute to structural cultural problems that disproportionately affect men.

In the example given about men being disproportionate victims of violence, the argument that men are solely responsible for that violence fails to grapple with the reality that we live in a culture in which success with women is a primary marker of men's value and a major motivator for their actions, and in which there is a long and still prevalent history of women valuing men based on their success in competition with other men and for traits like assertiveness, physical and social power, influence, dominance, resources, etc. It shouldn't be surprising that men are in constant conflict and competition with each other when that is the behavior that our culture generally and women specifically tend to encourage and reward, and where inverse qualities and behaviors like softness, sensitivity, submissiveness, etc. are harshly punished.

To be sure, men are not animals, they possess agency, and they are responsible for their own actions on an individual level. But when you're talking about trends on a societal level you have to consider what general cultural forces are at play and what attitudes and behaviors contribute to those forces. Many of the same women who make the argument that men are primarily responsible for violence against men will uncritically disqualify and belittle men based on various proxies for male physical power and virility like height, muscle mass, genital size, etc. or for behaviors that are viewed as "needy" or "unmanly." They will expect men to fulfill traditional male gender roles in relationships like provider and protector--which inherently involves resource accumulation and responding to threats with violence--and they will pursue men who exhibit aggressive and dominant tendencies or who prove their superiority over those around them in various contexts.

In short, problems like the disproportionate violence that men face are the product of a culture that both men and women uphold and contribute to, and the idea that men are solely responsible for fixing them is myopic political grandstanding. These issues will never change unless the incentive structures in our culture change, and that won't happen unless men and women work together because women's attitudes and behaviors towards men are significant part of those incentive structures.

blackmamba4554 · 2026-02-25T11:46:43+00:00

No, no, no. It could be valid in 1926, not in 2026. Cis women got the same rights and must share the same responsibilities. Just one of multiple samples - feminist PM of Finland Sanna Marin did nothing to abolish forceful conscription or at least make it gender neutral. Most women in Austria and Switzerland voted for forceful conscriptions for men only on referendums

SpicyMarshmellow · 2026-02-25T19:10:44+00:00

They're playing a trick, where the point they're making would make sense in some contexts, but they're making a categorical error.

For example, imagine we're talking about a golf club. Someone from that golf club talks about how there's a high rate of violence within that golf club. There's a club member getting into a fight with another club member every day. And person A who is a member of that golf club has a conversation with person B who is not a member of that golf club about it. I think it would be valid for person B to point out "Sounds like your golf club is pretty messed up and needs to figure this out. What kind of people are they letting into their club? Do they not have any rules? How are they enforced? Best of luck figuring it out." Obviously, person B is actually in every sense an outsider to the situation, and it would be weird for person A to make comparisons between them based on a situation person B isn't a part of or expect person B to be part of any solution.

But gender discourse is different. Men and women live in the same society, and we very rarely divide along gender lines in our daily lives. We're family members, we live together, work together, go to school together, go to stores and restaurants together, drive the same roads, and generally associate and cooperate in every aspect of our lives.

Imagine a woman's brother travels to another country and gets mugged while there by a total stranger that he has nothing in common with. The "By other men" narrative suggests that the brother who got mugged has a stronger group association with his assailant than he does with his own sister. Which is just insane. The only way it works is if these women literally see men, even the men closest to them in their lives, as a separate group that they are not associated with. Like aliens that just happen to be around. That a sister has a stronger group association with a random woman on the other side of the planet that they'll never meet than they have with their brother. It's sociopathic. But that's essentially what they're saying with this narrative every day.

sunyata150 · 2026-02-25T18:40:28+00:00

"Men create men's problems so men can't complain!"

These kind of statement are a blatant case of victim blaming.

Sleeksnail · 2026-02-26T05:02:05+00:00

Collective guilt is the ethos of the fascist.

Exavior31 · 2026-02-25T09:02:38+00:00

It reminds me of how racists try to argue that slavery was caused by black people selling each other into slavery. A mad, divorced from reality attempt to victim blame.

aslfingerspell · 2026-02-25T22:43:11+00:00

As I said before, this logic is basically the liberal equivalent of "What about black on black crime?" or "What if you exclude gang violence?"

It's the same logic: a group can't complain about a problem if some of its own members contribute, or alternatively that some victims deserve it.

Local-Willingness784 · 2026-02-25T19:36:52+00:00

Mothers are statistically more likely to commit infanticide overall, particularly in cases of neonaticide (killing within the first 24 hours), where they account for nearly all perpetrators. While female infanticide (killing specifically female infants) is often driven by patriarchal societal bias, studies indicate mothers are the primary perpetrators in immediate newborn killing.

Neonaticide (0-24 hours): Almost exclusively committed by mothers.

General Infanticide: Mothers remain the primary perpetrators.

Motivations: Often linked to psychological factors in mothers (neonaticide) or, in the case of specifically female infanticide, societal pressures and low status of women.

would we blame women for killing kids in these cases? The answer is no, by feminists and women themselves, most women end up being the childcarers, so i guess either they have the right or the excuse to do this shit or is mans fault for putting the pressure and kids on the poor innocent darling women murderers of literal infants.

this was based on a disussion that i had in other sub but i think its relevant to this.

random_sm · 2026-02-28T05:05:06+00:00

It's the progressive version of "black on black" crime.

dr_pepper02 · 2026-02-28T10:29:26+00:00

While there’s some truth to that they conveniently forget women roles in that, for all the evil men have done women have collectively stood by willingly reaping the benefits, it’s when they don’t benefit they take issue.

FangornsWhiskers · 2026-02-25T22:13:46+00:00

A lot of the male on male violence is assumed to be associated with gangs, drugs, involvement with criminal activity, existing in bad neighborhoods, etc. There’s a racist/classist dismissal of that violence because it affects people who don’t have value in society. It’s kind of a Victorian idea of maleness that men of good character are immune from violence, so they have nothing to worry about. If they do have real threats, it’s a moral problem, not a public safety problem.

ExternalGreen6826 · 2026-02-27T22:43:23+00:00

“The perpetrators are men”

“One possible answer is that men constitute the majority of perpetrators of violence against both men and women. That, it might be said, is why the call to end violence, are addressed to men. Violence, it might be said, is a male problem, even if the victims are both male and female. But one problem with this response is that the call is for an end of violence against women, rather than for an end to violence by men. Its focus is on the victim and not the perpetrator. I’m any event, when men (or women) are the victims of violence, it does not really matter whether the perpetrator is of the same sex or a different sex. What matters is that they have been attacked. The suggestion that it is other men who have attacked them can be seen to minimise the wrong only if we (inappropriately) blur the distinction between the identities of the particular men, failing to distinguish between between the perpetrator and the victim, and instead identifying them both simply as “men.” This is really no better than the person who minimises the violence suffered by blacks in American cities or South African townships, for example, by saying that it is perpetrated by “other blacks.”

P123 “The perpetrators are men” David Benatar - The Second Sexism (2012)

Even my liberal/centrist brother had to check me when I used the “by other men argument” 🙄😬

I agree it’s done to deflect empathy and direct away from the pain of the sufferer

This is one of the few feminist talking points I now actually hate/disagree with

It has its place rhetoric when men are trying to blame women to do a “un0 reverse” but to go on a tangent about how bad men are in the middle of someone’s pain and suffering is self centered and rather shitty

BuilderAcceptable442 · 2026-03-03T04:45:47+00:00

Illogical statement. Because men that do not create problem should not bear the consequences of problem created by other men. The same with black people that do not create problem should not bear the consequences of problem created by other black people. Muslims that do not create problem should not bear the consequences of problem created by other muslims, etc.

Enzi42 · 2026-02-25T12:04:39+00:00

I see people clutching repeatedly to the narrative that women always have it worse than men

Perhaps this might be controversial for this sub, but I think it needs to be said.

Who cares?

I really do mean that and am open to people's opinions. Let's say for the sake of this small argument that this was all true. I don't see why that matters in any way shape or form.

We are not women, they are not men. I have very little animosity towards women, but I am also aware that many of them---like any other group of people---want what is best for them, regardless of what it costs those outside of their group, especially if they have been conditioned to see that other group as privileged or worse the oppresors, the authors of their pain across generations.

I think men should recalibrate our focus and worry more about what benefits us first, with everything else coming far behind. It certainly is how the other side operates and they have little to no moral qualms about the negative effects their actions inflict.

This isn't about malice, this is about pragmatism and putting one's own kind first above all else, due to both loyalty and the harsh realization that the rest of the world operates in that manner.

I say this because I see this particular bit of rhetoric---true or not---stop many men in their tracks and make them reconsider things when it should just make them shrug and keep moving forward. It's like being swayed to the side of a rival nation because their people suffer poverty.

It doesn't matter especially if addressing that hurts your country and its people. This might be preaching to the choir, but I feel like if more men would see each other as a bloc and ourselves as a group worth defending, this particular bit of feminist rhetoric would have zero effect.

EDIT: Despite how it might sound, I'm making this edit in good faith, because it seems only fair. While I am open to anyone arguing my point, the only argument I will not listen to is anything revolving around "It's the right thing to do even if they don't recipeocate or outright hate us" or some other "moral" framework that employs such ideology.

This is one of the most destructive and self sabotaging ideals that men's movements and men in general hold when it comes to this particular issue and I've come to see it as the product of naivety, foolishness or brainwashing/manipulation.

Again I'm not exactly expecting arguments or debate, but I feel it is fair to let people know ahead of time what I will and will not accept.

Warm-Atmosphere-1565 · 2026-02-25T22:52:01+00:00

some even go into philosophy yet have no comprehension of what logic is, they seem to be able to bypass all that and say unhinged things that somehow still sound coherent in their brain

lopsidedmuch · 2026-02-26T07:59:11+00:00

I'm just curious and this might be a bit off-topic, but how did saying "men have serious problems too and being a man isn't easy" become a controversial opinion?

benovalent_bottom · 2026-02-25T09:51:16+00:00

You're not going to like the answer but it's simply because other men allow it to be that way.

If you say "it's other men" then the onus is on men to improve and generally men jump at opportunity to "play the hero" so that women will be impressed. Women reward this behaviour by showing praise to the men who show this behaviour. Also by default "women are wonderful".

DudleyNYCinLA · 2026-02-26T06:04:38+00:00

It has to do with a belief that attention to men’s issue will take away from attention to women’s issues, which under Trump et al are not in good shape. And if we acknowledge how much better things are for women now than 60 years ago, people might get complacent. Lately I try not to push back when the discourse gets so hostile but it’s hard.

AutoModerator · 2026-02-24T18:10:42+00:00

Thank you for posting to r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates. All new posts are held for manual review and may take up to 48 hours to be approved. Please don’t message the moderators, we’ll make sure to review your submission as soon as possible. If this is your first post, be sure to review our rules to ensure it meets our criteria.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

bunnywithabanner · 2026-03-03T03:44:31+00:00

There’s a difference between explaining patterns and dismissing people’s suffering. When people point out that most violence against men is committed by men, the intention (at least in theory) is to analyze causes, not to say male victims deserve it or that their pain doesn’t matter.

I agree that dismissing men’s issues outright or reducing them to “men did it to themselves” is unhelpful and dehumanizing in most contexts. Male victimization absolutely matters. At the same time, however, acknowledging gendered patterns of violence doesn’t require turning it into a competition over who has it worse. Both male and female victims deserve empathy without being used as rhetorical weapons against each other.

I think the real issue isn’t whether men’s problems are real; they clearly are. The issue is how we address them without collapsing into zero-sum framing where recognizing one pattern invalidates another, which is what you seem to be doing with this.

Title	"Men create men's problems so men can't complain!"
Author	Scary-Jellyfish8832
Upvotes	310
Comments	109
Date	February 24, 2026 6:10 PM UTC (5 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1rdnsr0/men_create_mens_problems_so_men_cant_complain/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/men-create-mens-problems-so-men-cant-complain.1574205 https://theredarchive.com/post/1574205

Comments