So. What have we actually accomplished here.

Langland88 · 2025-01-11T15:56:18+00:00

While I do agree up to a point, what annoys me with this place is that there is so much emphasize on making discussion a high effort post. I feel like there are some legit conversations that could be had here, Mods delete it in claims of the discussions being low effort. I have wanted to have some conversations where we could discuss possible solutions to problems that could be viable but for whatever reason, the Mods consider it low effort. I also believe what hasn't helped is that a lot the Reddit Users from 6 years ago, have left this platform in favor of new platforms back when that big exodus happened.

Honestly, this is the only place where I feel comfortable having discussions on Male issues. I went to the Men's Rights one a few times and while I get more upvotes for stuff I have to say, I feel the discussions there are much more shallow. I do appreciate what this Subreddit has to offer and I even have crossposted some of the discussions here over in to r/TheAntiMisandry subreddit. I really don't want to complain about things but sometimes I can't help it because I too need to vent as well. I also appreciate that this subreddit will tolerate people like me, who are more left of center than actual left wing, and will even reply from time to time about stuff I have to say.

Title_IX_For_All · 2025-01-11T15:01:07+00:00

I sympathize. Several issues here. Because powerful men's activism would be fundamentally disruptive, Reddit - which has a clear bias in its admin team against men and men's issues and is notoriously censorious - is not an ideal place to invest a lot of time. I have been involved in men's issues advocacy since 2010, and 95%+ of the advocacy occurs outside of Reddit. I sympathize with the barriers that pro-male mods are up against.

More broadly speaking, there is an issue with men's issues advocacy being mostly just about posting opinions on social media. In my view, that's not really activism per se, and it gets lost in the noise with everyone else's opinions. Advocacy is a discipline, and like any other discipline it can be done well or poorly.

I am not sympathetic with defeatism and do-nothingism, however. In my view, the most powerful way to create real institutional change is to foster male-friendly spaces in professional communities. Because at the end of the day, it is professionals who create institutional (and broader social) change. I can't give you a template for how to do that, but I (and others) have managed to find some success in Title IX advocacy. It is a long hard road, though, and that is why most people don't do it and resort solely to posting comments and opinions. If it were easy, everyone would do it!

I hope this helps.

flaumo · 2025-01-11T14:59:31+00:00

A lot social media is about complaining and venting. The feminist subs are full of complaints and victimhood as well.

I personally profit massively from this sub. I feel heard and can speak. It is good for my sanity. I am more conscious of what I have to face as a man.

I do have real life friendships where I discuss these issues productively as well. I think this is as important as social media, but harder to build.

Personally I don‘t think it has to be overt activism. Just this week we started a Baldurs Gate group with a friends brother who is schizophrenic and is on a disability pension. I do believe this is real life inclusion and hopefully healing.

I also do classical activism like putting up posters and stickers, but there is no real scene in Vienna to connect with. Most of my friends do not want to participate.

I occasionally volunteer in mixed groups, e.g. teach math for refugee kids. I went to mental health self help groups for years. I try to learn and develop personally so I can help people better. I do hope that I can use my skills in a gender sensitive way that is appropriate for men.

Regarding my future time investments: I am seriously considering doing a PhD in Social Media Analysis / Data Science with a focus on disinformation and fake news on social media. More specifically identifying and analyzing QAnon and Russian propaganda, mostly because this is a real threat for liberal democracy and universal human rights, compare they way Cambridge Analytica helped Trump win his first term. But also because there is little in funding and career opportunities in the area of male advocacy, as a feminist you have way higher institutional support and more grants. I could imagine doing research into gender issues later on though, when I have more skills and am in a less vulnerable career position.

Upper-Divide-7842 · 2025-01-11T18:02:49+00:00

Nothing wrong with just talking about your issues literally every other social group does it constantly.

But you are correct that the position in this sub is hardly a huge movement with a lot of social prominance.

Mainstream MRA's are a bigger influence in society than LWMA's and they are a negligible group compared to either red pillers or feminists, let alone compared to the cultural inertia that fosters mainstream conservatism.

I guess my question is, am I understanding you correctly that you have attempted to provide real life avenues for activism to the people in this sub and the mod team has prevented you from doing so?

Forsaken_Hat_7010 · 2025-01-11T15:58:06+00:00

Society is so dominated by feminism that opposing it is automatically demonized, people are afraid to be ostracized. For there to be more real actions and be successful, it's important to build awareness in society to lay the groundwork and gain support or at least acceptance; so I think even being “whiny” on the internet is useful for that. And spaces like this are really important to articulate the discourse.

I'm optimistic that as popular opinion of feminism continues to deteriorate, politicians, media and other scavengers will come after the new audienceand normalize it, making it easier to take a stand and mobilize for real equality.

Exavior31 · 2025-01-11T17:46:43+00:00

Well, I only came to this sub at most a couple of months ago.

Since then, I've read (and saved) post after post here. Genuine gold has been posted here over the years that made me aware misandry I was previously blind to and enlightened me of areas where men face real systemic discrimination. This sub has been vital to me in realizing where I stand on gender issues, simply for providing a fresh and different perspective to all the other left wing spaces I frequent.

I get your frustration. But this sub even just being here, its making a difference. Not a big one, sure, but for me? It made all the difference, and I am thankful for that.

ZealousidealCrazy393 · 2025-01-11T15:31:05+00:00

I have found some sense of community here. I personally agree that it would be awesome to see real-world activism forming here. It can be a downer coming in here and only finding negativity, or "whining" if we want to call it that. But I also think that men have been forbidden from whining for so long, we've been told our pain isn't real for so long, that maybe guys just need to be able to whine and not be told they're imagining their pain. But there is no use for outright negativity that says nothing will ever change and there's no reason to hope.

There is some truth in the comments saying real men's activism would be extremely disruptive to the status quo and it's probably not going to happen through something like Reddit. It has to happen in a space where actual freedom of speech and freedom of assembly still apply.

I want to advocate and volunteer. I have time I can devote to it. My problem is I don't know where real activism for men is happening.

SpicyMarshmellow · 2025-01-11T15:17:23+00:00

Going to speak just for myself here. I'll admit as I have admitted before, I'm here mainly as a somewhat maladaptive coping mechanism to process shit I've been through. This subject became important to me and reading here helps me to refine my perspective on it. I write to help sharpen the narrative/help others refine their perspectives along with me, and to just vent/process. I try to offer something constructive by just being thoughtful, and that's not much but I don't think it's nothing. I'm kind of a high functioning depressive mess and very very tired. Engaging with this subject anywhere other than this sub is almost always crushingly depressing and puts me in a state that's not conducive to activism. In fact, I'm usually here because I encounter misandry and invalidation of male victims in the wild constantly without even looking for it, and engaging here when that's bothering me is stabilizing. If you want to interpret that as just wanting to whine, I understand. I'm just not in a place where I feel like I have the emotional capacity to fight the world, and that is what it feels like advocating for men's issues amounts to.

But consider where feminists are coming from when they say these things. Their movement is dominant. Their opinions are rewarded. Very few of those accusing us of just whining had to make any sort of sacrifices themselves to get their movement to the dominant position it's in today. It probably happened before they were born. And when women whine, they don't get questioned by other women as to what kind of activism they're engaging in. So feel free to be critical, but don't give feminists saying that shit any legitimacy as you do it.

hobobob423 · 2025-01-11T18:25:33+00:00

I understand your frustration. But even though it doesn’t seem like a lot, literally just having this community available as a resource helps. It’s a sounding board for guys who have legitimate grievances but would normally either be told to sit down and shut up (mainstream feminism), or manipulated into much more harmful ideologies (Andrew Tate, redpill, etc). This place exists as a community dedicated to actual left wing values like inclusion and equality without ignoring 50% of the population the way the dominant gender zeitgeist does. Of course I’ve seen a few hateful comments posted in this sub, but they’re almost always downvoted and rebutted in replies. Self-policing is something this sub does better than Mensrights, and FAAAARRR better than most feminist subs. But it also does a way better job of allowing critical discussions that would just get preemptively removed in subs like Menslib.

Personally, I have found a massive trove of factual info in this sub that has helped me open the eyes of quite a few people in my own life. Of course in the current climate you have to bring this stuff up tactfully, but a lot of people I know have begun questioning the dominant narrative that men control everything and have life on easy mode because of the information I have been able to share from this sub. And that has to be worth something.

ashfinsawriter · 2025-01-11T18:02:08+00:00

Honestly I think the invalidation of "just wanting to whine" should be addressed here.

Talking about issues isn't "just wanting to whine". Spreading awareness IS a form of activism. There is value to just finding somewhere you belong, where you don't feel crazy for your opinions. It's emboldening. Although it's small, I've gotten a few people to be LWMAs themselves by introducing them to resources from this sub. That kind of thing does have a domino effect.

I'm a trans man. This is the ONLY men's advocacy place I've felt safe. Obviously right wingers are gonna be transphobic (and typically cross the line into genuinely misogynistic). Everything else is staunchly feminist and doesn't take critique.

However: I'm not intimately familiar with Reddit's TOS, so I apologize if this suggestion is breaking it. But maybe you could organize, essentially, "throwaway" subs where the purpose is specifically vocal activism that are okay to be banned if it comes down to it? I think the main reason people don't want to advocate from here is there's so many guys like me who've never felt safe anywhere else and don't want to lose that.

Present_League9106 · 2025-01-11T17:37:05+00:00

On some level, advocating against feminism is a worthwhile endeavor.

On another level, I do have a question: are there any men's domestic violence shelters? For me, I'm curious if there are any in the US, but it's a valid question for anywhere. I know of CAFE. I'm wondering if anyone can share their website. Are any of these shelters legally considered non-profits (501c3 in the US)? If none are, what realistic steps can be made to secure that designation for one? I'm not saying that any shelters wouldn't be functionally non-profits, but the designation is important because it brings in both money and attention it might not otherwise. We already know that men are under-served as victims of domestic abuse which ties into them being underrepresented in the media. A legally protected men's shelter would raise awareness and help men in need. I do realize that it has been tried before and failed because of systemic bias, but, in the spirit of this post, what can be done to remedy this?

ChimpPimp20 · 2025-01-11T18:50:13+00:00

My way of contributing is content creation.

I’ve been gathering information from intellectuals, YouTubers, articles, civilians, politicians, etc., in order to create videos discussing men’s issues. In order for us to even get started, when need leftists to understand what men’s issues are. Too many times I see feminists ask what a “male issue” is. The job I’ve given myself is to do the research and prove just how much society is ignorant of men and our problems.

I also want to help bridge the gap for red pillers and radical feminists. I think too many BreadTubers think that they de-radicalize enormous amounts of people when in actuality their numbers aren’t that high. Their content is typically orchestrated for people who already agree with their content. It’s basically what you would call an eco chamber. I myself want to attempt to do the type of de-radicalism that YouTubers like Destiny and Aba and Preach do. Every single time someone talks about how they stopped being an anti-SJW, they mention Destiny or someone Destiny adjacent. While Destiny isn’t perfect (he’s kind of an asshole actually) he does a WAY better job acknowledging both men and women’s issues. That’s what I wanna do. I want to be able to change the minds of toxic men, women and everyone in between.

This doesn’t mean that this will happen though. My videos could end up flopping. However, it’s something that I’m going to strive for anyway. If I can get people to be more empathic to men and women’s issues then I’ve done my job. I think in the future I may even try to contact some legislatures about men’s issues but I don’t know where to start. I’ve seen someone else do that here a couple years ago but to no avail. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. I think Trump’s win has us pretty down in the dumps but I think you’re right. We shouldn’t give up hope.

Rucs3 · 2025-01-11T17:52:08+00:00

This such a weird way to frame this question...

This is a subreddit, by it's very nature the purpose here is discussion.

It's like going to r/antiwork and saying "so what have we acomplished here?" Nothing, besides discussion.

It doesn't mean there isn't unions trying to improve work life, or people organizing into unions, but r/antiwork or any left leaning sub, or any other adjacent sub will always be basically for discussion.

Having a place for discussion and changing ideas is important, but of course, without action discussion is meaningless, and couch activism is kinda useless indeed. But this is not a problem for this subreddit (or any forum) to solve. This and others forums exist only to be a place to discuss.

Unions, NGOs and other advocacy groups are another different thing, and even when they have their own forums, the forums itself are just for discussion.

This subreddit will not do anything actionable, like many others, do you think feminist forums actually do any real activism? No they just discuss stuff. Or that a Hapa subreddit will solve racism? Nah, just place for discussions.

Incentivizing actual actions is a good thing to do here, but it's silly to expect this place to solve anything, or any forum for that matter.

Upbeat-Canary-3742 · 2025-01-11T18:25:00+00:00

Look at how many people are subscribed. It’s not many at all. Furthermore, I can’t speak for others, but I didn’t subscribe to be an activist online.

I care about being able to pay my bills. I care about my wife. I’m here because my views are mainly left wing, but I disagree with the conceptualization of the patriarchy and how it is used as a large stick against men, and the “othering” of men.

Im Canadian. In real life, I worked at a place called the mustard seed, which created a rehab for homeless men (men only) which gave them back a life. It was incredibly successful, and I try to support and raise real awareness of how much places like that help in my community.

But as far as a random subreddit on the internet….why should I care about that more than my own community? We’re not going to start a metoo movement here. I personally don’t want to, either.

Real change comes in how you interact with and help real men in the real world IMO. Fixing things like social isolation, mentorship of older men to younger men, advocating for men to be involved in raising youth in education, etc.

I think this is an important point you bring up - but realize that most of us aren’t actually here to be activists. At least not in an online sense. Locally within our communities? That’s a different story.

Low-Philosopher-2354 · 2025-01-11T22:18:48+00:00

It's a good question, but I do think that this sub contributes to activism overall even without doing much itself, considering how it's affected me. I went from having suspicions about the nature of Feminism, to doing research about it (at least some), to finding a community full of critical and well meaning people to source varied and well reasoned opinions or studies from, to developing a new perspective on Feminism (it's an atrocious parasite with no redeeming qualities), to now being interested in joining the sort of activism that you want to see more of on this subreddit. Thing is though, I can see where those mods are coming from. This is an incredible resource that I would miss dearly if it were banned. That obviously won't stop me from doing activism of other sorts outside of LWMA, but it would make doing anything here counter productive, I think. This sub is much better as a resource for people who want to organize outside of it at least from what I've seen. I'd just rather spend my energy advocating for men outside of Reddit, since there's an anti male bias both here and where I live so it's an uphill battle either way and I care more about the IRL one.

TrashT_Wellington · 2025-01-11T23:24:07+00:00

I agree with the overall message. I do think that reddit isn't the best way to organize something like a protest, I don't imagine many people live in the same which reduces the actual affect of a protest.

However, when I was reading through the other replies I came across ZealousidealCrazy393's reply about GALDEF which I wasn't even aware was a thing. It's great that you stickied it, or plan to, but I can't help but wonder what other organizations exist out there that do similar things. I imagine, like myself, that there are many other men that would like to help but simply aren't knowledgeable on how.

If it's not too much work I think it would be great to have some sidebar dictionary like is present on many other subreddits that contains that information. Organizations, what they stand for, how to donate, maybe even important news updates on them. That would put this subreddit as a sort of center of information which I think fits the format better.

Let me know what you think and if you don't understand what I'm referencing to by "sidebar dictionary" then let me know, I'll provide an example; I just don't know the actual name of it.

Snowstormssuck · 2025-01-12T00:24:19+00:00

I think you’re being a bit hard on yourself and this community.

Sometimes acknowledgement of an issue is a bit of a slow thing but can be more important than passing legislation. For gay men, yes Gay Marriage was important but what was far more important was people recognizing our challenges. That took a long time for us to get and once we got the general population caring about gay struggles, passing Gay Marriage was easy.

I’m starting to see more acknowledgement of men’s issues on Reddit. It is mostly on AskMen but atleast it’s happening. I think you should be proud of the influence this sub is having on social discourse even if it’s slow.

Unfortunately, trans activists have taken the route on laws before acceptance. That is not a road we want to go down as we are seeing the backlash that that has caused.

In my opinion, we should keep on showing people our struggles in order to change peoples opinions. After that, laws will change.

OGBoglord · 2025-01-11T22:11:25+00:00

As far as I'm aware, this subreddit wasn't created for the purpose of political organizing, and that has never been its focus; this has always been "a place for discussion of male advocacy from a left-wing perspective."

If most are here to learn about and discuss men's issues, its unreasonable to expect them to suddenly rally behind your attempts at irl activism. Its sort of like blaming your therapist because you haven't achieved happiness yet - that's not what therapy is for.

Also, this accusatory attitude, while understandable, is pretty antagonistic - it could potentially make people who are only here for discourse feel unwelcome, despite the fact that this is what the sub's focus has always been. A more measured approach may be to invite them to a separate community that is actually dedicated to political organizing, and without the guilt-tripping.

OldCardiologist66 · 2025-01-11T17:09:54+00:00

I’m here to become more informed and learn peoples perspectives so I can apply that to the real world.

EDIT: Ah of course, it was a TEACHING moment. I should have known! You were demonstrating a valuable lesson that in order to cause change you need to “break the rules and rock the boat” so that… checks notes a volatile and power tripping Reddit moderator will perma ban you and then stalk your months old comments and personally reply to them so they can feel power over you because… you criticized their take on something. Well done, you sure showed me.

Well, 6 hours later you’re still replying to me, I must live rent free huh? You are the reason the stereotypes about Reddit moderators exist, the thin skin, the insecurity. Using the petty, insignificant power you hold with reckless abandon to grasp some feeling of control, fruitlessly attempting to counteract the complete impotence you feel in your real life. I initially hated you when you banned me, but after this last sad reply, trying to act like this was some grand design, I truly and genuinely pity you.

Ps. You know for a fact that circumventing a subreddit ban on an alt will lead to an ip ban for me and the fact that you would try to bait me into it is reprehensible and frankly should be disallowed on Reddit. If you were actually willing to allow me to participate you would simply unban me and acknowledge that you overreacted, but your ego would not accept that regardless. I don’t care about interacting on here if you are the sole petty tyrant of the forum, and if you aren’t I would hope the other moderators would do something about your presence here.

EDIT: You are the establishment. You banned me for rocking the boat.

Edit This dude is actually stroking his cock to the fact that he banned me. What a freak You’re definitely that republican rapper cringelord.

jaddeo · 2025-01-11T18:39:22+00:00

Truth is, there is are few "actions" that are worthwhile that might be considered real activism. Protests do nothing, just look at the Gaza protests. Yeah, they accomplished nothing. I'm not even saying this from the doomer perspective, I'm just saying certain actions are more worthwhile than others.

Feminism is dying a rapid death. After Hillary's humiliating defeat, Amber Heard sending the movement back a millennia, Kamala losing to a senile Trump, and now the Blake Lively-Justin Baldoni will send feminism into damn near extinction. The only lifeline the movement has now is the left and we need to figure out how to effectively deal the final blow.

We need to be careful how we come across and we need to read the vibe correctly. For now, I think our best plan is make sure we continue tarnishing the name of feminism. We need to continue associating feminism with bitter, lonely women who hate men, and we need to go full anti-idpol. Plenty of women are already scared to associate with the movement because they know feminists are crazy and being around them will make them less desirable. Crack jokes at their expense, make the left realize that feminism is a major liability for them. Never let them forget defeats of Hillary, Kamala, and Amber Heard.

Honestly, for Reddit, we need to do just say what on our mind and eat any bans that we get. Go on right wing subs, or neutral ground, announce ourselves as anti-feminist members of the left and say what's on our mind. I don't think we need protests or anything else besides running a "smear" campaign against feminism and feminists.

Johntoreno · 2025-01-12T03:49:52+00:00

IMO we can only advocate for Men's issues where Women aren't explicitly involved, which means you gotta put off fighting the judiciary bias, misandry, discriminatory hiring etc for the time being and stick to issues such as Homelessness, MGM and Mental Health. MRAs still believe that they can challenge feminists and keep bringing up issues such as DV, False Accusations, Female Rapists etc The only way i see Feminism losing its social currency is if the Right takeover the education&media completely, forcing the left to rein in on Feminist Misandry.

Anyway, i think the way people go about fighting MGM is wrong. Instead of trying to shock people with bloodstained pants like PETA, we need to start rallying together groups of mothers as ironically mothers are much more open to changing their minds than fathers. Inactivists need to act more strategically and expose how the pharma industry harvests baby foreskin, how foreskin serves a vital function and how taking care of a cut infant is more complicated due to the surgery. Feminists can afford to be loud&aggressive because they have the institutional support and the numbers to back it up, we need to get crafty instead of relying on conventional methods.

Acceptable-Card1448 · 2025-01-12T06:50:41+00:00

Nothing

NotJeromeStuart · 2025-01-11T16:08:13+00:00

The issue you're running into is that this group is a bunch of normies and you're wanting the behavior of punks and rebels. It's why I hate this and all mens groups: cowardice. Yes we organize in private but we need to have the balls to do things in real life or just delete the group.

MiKEY_SANZ · 2025-01-11T16:53:02+00:00

I sent you a DM

EmptyTrifle1355 · 2025-01-11T15:57:47+00:00

Isn't this just reflective of the broader collapse of the political in the postmodern imperial core, the collapse of political effectivity? You wish a 'cultural' space would expand to a fetishized 'political' which died decades ago with the end of Fordism. Sympathize greatly w the frustration, but I don't think this can be abstracted from the larger collapse of effectivity for all social agents other than capital :(

whordeum_sp · 2025-01-12T02:05:38+00:00

Subs comprimised, time to dip fellas. Menslib 2.0 incoming

Was nice while it lasted i suppose

MiKEY_SANZ · 2025-01-11T16:50:52+00:00

Real change won't happen until Liberal Men start protest-voting Conservative/Republican/Rightwing

If The Left is going to be "The Empathy Party" they need to be empathetic to boys and men. If they refuse to live up to their party identity they need to lose.

If The Left can still get your vote without giving you what you want then they never will.

LeotheLiberator · 2025-01-11T15:11:39+00:00

Most of the men here don't want to advocate, they want to complain.

They want to share their hate for feminism and social pressures but have absolutely no desire to make any effort or join any initiative to promote change.

Too many "anti-feminists" types with no goal but reacting to Feminist media and consuming red-pill nonsense to continue the cycle.

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