A ‘Sugar Date’ Gone Sour

storffish · 2018-10-16T15:06:16+00:00

I think this chick is full of shit and making excuses for her continued bad decisions. she wants to live a glamorous life but doesn't want to do the work to earn it. she moved to one of the most expensive cities in the world with a pile of debt and, judging by her job choices, no skills. a personal stylist? good luck, sweetheart.

she tried to take an easy way out and got played. I'm not going to say she had it coming because it's a two way street, but I'm not sure what she expected on a sugar dating site. wholesome, honest men who just want to pay to spend time with her sparkling personality? have riveting conversations about doing hair and working retail over a bottle of pinot noir? lol.

plenty of women are genuinely forced into prostitution. here in ABQ I've run into human trafficking victims from El Salvador and Honduras who truly had no choice. they're lied to about housekeeping work in the states then drugged, smuggled, and then have their identities stolen so they have no way of escape. I've also known some girls who get into hard times and suck dick to feed their kids. it's not that uncommon to go through a phase like that when you came up in abuse and poverty, so I have sympathy for them too. but some college educated chick who can't find decent work so that she can afford to live in a city she chose to move to? no pity. that's the height of privilege in my book.

LivelyChartreuse · 2018-10-16T15:27:15+00:00

Do you think the stigma against sex work is an injustice and will / should it ever expire?

It is most certainly not an injustice, and it is doubtful it will expire.

Aaren_Augustine · 2018-10-16T14:47:53+00:00

That's not pseudo prostitution. I say janitor others say custodial engineer. I say prostitute others say whore.

I heard this thing in college while working at Fazoli's. This manager was a 'fluffer'. Meaning she worked on porn sets to keep the guy erect in between filming scenes.

Sex workers are prostitutes. Someone is just calling it feces to remove the smell of shit. I call them weasel words because it's always someone trying to weasel their way out of consequence.

BirdManBrrrr · 2018-10-16T15:17:58+00:00

This entire thing starts as a train wreck:

Her degree in art history and fine arts from Eastern Connecticut State University wasn’t helping her land any job worth sticking around for.

This girl went out of her way to set herself up for failure: a shitty, useless degree from a state school barely above the local community colleges. She's not smart despite her upbringing in a ritzy coastal community. Had it been Art History from UCONN or any other decent school with a decent fine arts program it could have maybe--MAYBE--gotten her something, somewhere. She couldn't have fucked her education up more if she tried. SAD!

moving to one of the most glamorous, ballyhooed cities in the world can seem like a good idea. Never mind the expense...The cost of living (and partying) was more than she could manage

This poor, poor girl! Prudent life choices are so hard! We should all feel bad for her!

Do you find prostitutes repulsive and worthless (as partners and/or as members of society)?

As partners, yes. As members of society, frankly I don't care in the libertarian way I don't need to judge other people's decisions how to survive economically. They DO serve a purpose in society and sex work as a whole should be legal, but that's not the question.

Do you think the stigma against sex work is an injustice and will / should it ever expire?

Here's the rub: the narrative that is emerging is that women can not and should not be shamed or otherwise judged for their decisions regardless of their decisions, outcomes, or the impacts therein. Men, specifically, should not hold a woman's past decisions against her nor should any of her prior decisions reflect her fitness as a romantic partner. Misogyny!

Consider also there is a distinct difference between someone in sex work against their will or doing it as an absolute necessity for survival vs. entitled white girls from rich coastal towns who make poor education and lifestyle decisions and turn to sex work for money. One presumes most would hold the former in higher regard.

belletaco · 2018-10-16T14:52:23+00:00

I think women should do whatever they want, but understand there will likely always be a stigma with selling yourself/time/body to men for cash. Just as there is a stigma for men who buy women.

edit to add that I don't think sugar babies are the same thing as prostitutes in the traditional sense of the word and therefore are not as problematic to me, personally.

kandyapplez · 2018-10-16T15:14:33+00:00

i don't see how the linked article has anything to do with the premise of your post. whether you find escorts to be repulsive or stigmatized, when you decide to enter into an arrangement like this you should honor the terms or risk whatever the fuck the fallout is.

where does "valuing them as partners" come in?? they wanted to be valued as prostitutes, as in PAID

petrichordium · 2018-10-16T15:17:31+00:00

There is a difference between stigmatizing someone as VILE and recognizing that their work involves constraints that dont match with what you want in a mate. I wouldn’t date an ER nurse bc of their job. I don’t think ER nurses are VILE, though. Vile people deserve to be ripped off, whores deserve to be paid. That simple.

(Also. Why you gotta do this to me on a day i actually have to focus on work? First off, sugar babies are a weird interzone and not a good metric for prostitution. Yes they are prostitutes, but it’s a bullshit fig leaf where both they and the clients frequently try and wave off that stigma, and that bullshit is part of why articles like this seem so pathetic. Here’s the best piece ever on sugarbabies, much better than this one. )

https://thenewinquiry.com/letter-to-a-young-baby/

Now onto prostitution:

The men who see prostitutes as vile are indicting their own sexuality in the process. What else would make them vile except constant exposure to male vileness. Good prostitutes are emotionally and sexually skilled professionals, and in an ideal world, you wouldn’t stigmatize them anymore than you would a therapist for being the kind of person who can listen to people’s bullshit all day. You might not want to date someone who does that for a living, that’s perfectly valid! But the idea that they are VILE is a different plateau of attitude.

The women who see prostitutes as vile have just internalized the above bullshit and are patting themselves on the back for being on the right side of the white picket fence. They dislike Those Girls who cheapen the sex cabal or use sex as a means to access “their” men, basically.

Pushing for the recognition that prostitutes are dignified human beings who deserve autonomy and safety is not the same as telling everyone that they should love prostitutes. There will always likely be SOME stigma associated with the job (unless we ever reinstate it as a semi-divine priestess thing, which used to be a thing). And a little stigma is OKAY! Honestly it’s great for me, bc if all the sex workers I’ve dated in their off time didn’t have any stigma, they’d have been out of my league maybe.

But are you arguing that the stigma against them justifies the danger and degradation they constantly face in our legal and social framework?

321PK · 2018-10-16T15:34:15+00:00

Ugh. She sounds awful. And bad at being a prostitute. Always get the money up front. Venmo. It’s possible the stigma will go away. It’s probably inevitable that it will. I don’t find prostitutes as disgusting as the men that hire them. I had a friend in college that was a sugar baby. I watched it go on. It was yucky. Watching him fawn over her and watching her visibly take a deep breath and shoring herself up to fawn back. She’s beautiful though so he got a good product.

Eastuss · 2018-10-16T15:28:22+00:00

Women shouldn't be shamed for selling their bodies to vile men, who happen to have sex with women for free al the time, AKA shaming men for being men. Lmao.

Q4Men: Do you find prostitutes repulsive and worthless (as partners and/or as members of society)?

They're not dating material, but they're not repulsive.

Q4All: Do you think the stigma against sex work is an injustice and will / should it ever expire?

I think if we unleash sex work, everything women allow us to do will have a cost. Women have a tremendeous sexual power and will bend moral to make it better for them.

passepar2t · 2018-10-16T15:40:00+00:00

She's not a lesser human bean for it but she's definitely lesser as a relationship prospect.

LewisCross · 2018-10-16T14:49:30+00:00

Q4Men: Do you find prostitutes repulsive and worthless (as partners and/or as members of society)?

Yes, they're repulsive. But men will still have sex with them. They're not worthless since they serve a function that will become increasingly important as the chasm between the sexual haves and the sexual have-nots widens exponentially.

Women on "sugar" sites like SeekingArrangement are just doing what wives do except they're not married and some of them have multiple "Daddies" - they exchange sex for money, usually with men they're not all that sexually attracted to.

Q4All: Do you think the stigma against sex work is an injustice and will / should it ever expire?

Oh, I don't know. I don't know if it's an "injustice". What I do know is:

1) that men and women are openly acknowledging the transactional nature of most sexual encounters of any duration.

2) Women are monetizing their sexuality, openly, instead of shrouding it in marriage and "commitment". IOW, women are openly prostituting themselves.

3) Men are openly willing to give "allowances" and "gifts" and "stipends" to women in exchange for "time" (I.e., sex). IOW, men are acting openly as johns.

4) Mostly this is because men and women are increasingly unable to find commitment with suitable partners, or unwilling to commit to those willing to commit to them and actually function as a married couple.

Women insist they need to "get something" in return for having sex. Every woman always insists even that Chad "pay" for sex with her. Chad "pays" in the form of time, attention, and one-word texts every few days. All other men "pay" in money and commitment.

SmurfESmurferson · 2018-10-16T14:55:06+00:00

In response to your Q4All:

I don't think the stigma will ever fully go away. Nor do I really have an opinion on whether it should or shouldn't; it's not an area that affects my life, so I don't spend time thinking about it

Stepping away from the moralizing, what I do think is interesting is the rise of "sugar babies." I can't seem to makeup my mind if this is a new, primarily sex-focused version of the centuries-old courtesan/geisha cultures ... Or if it has something to do with the rise in social media narcissism, and is a natural extension of girls being socially groomed to do anything for likes (or money)

crackrocksteady7 · 2018-10-16T15:32:58+00:00

it wasn’t until she got on the subway and looked at PayPal that she saw her payment request had been ignored.

Thot: patrolled

Q4Men: Do you find prostitutes repulsive and worthless (as partners and/or as members of society)?

Yes

Q4All: Do you think the stigma against sex work is an injustice and will / should it ever expire?

Hopefully it doesn't

killallthenarcs · 2018-10-16T15:50:06+00:00

Q4All: Do you think the stigma against sex work is an injustice and will / should it ever expire?

Well for starters, every form of sex work has its own stigma and the stigma varies. Most people have a different opinion of someone who writes smutty romances than they do of a hooker giving $10 blowies in alleyways.

But anyway, I think the stigma associated with prostitution is very difficult for prostitutes to live with, there's strong elements of injustice to it but I hesitate to call it a complete injustice. We all get judged on the work we have chosen to do to earn a living, especially if that work is longstanding and we make it our career. A used care salesman, a slaughterhouse worker, a long distance trucker, a lawyer, a soldier, a telemarketer, an investment banker, a policeman... all judged in different ways but all judged in ways that aren't completely positive. Prostitution involves a bunch of actions and a bunch of lies all while in a social zone that most of us regard as one in which honesty and respect for the ability of others to make decisions based upon reality is quite important. You can't really expect to do work that involves so much intimate lying and strongly blurs the boundaries between reality and lie (how many clients fall in love with their prostitute and to keep a regular she encourages it by stating or implying she feels more than she does?) and then expect not to have people be doubtful and cautious around you at times, maybe see you as someone who will act more warm and friendly than how you really feel. I for one would always distrust an offer of friendship from a prostitute of there is the slightest profit she may be making from that friendship. I would always be waiting for the moment I'm expected to (metaphorically) put my hand in my pocket and pay, and the likelyhood that once there is no payoff expected for her any more she will walk away without a damn concern in the world.

wtknight · 2018-10-16T17:25:06+00:00

I only find the prostitutes repulsive who engage in prostitution totally by choice. The ones who really need the money I just pity.

No, the stigma shouldn’t expire. Men and women should be having sex only in loving relationships. On the other hand, prostitution shouldn’t be a crime.

Yorkshiretea83 · 2018-10-16T22:17:39+00:00

I don't think the stigma will go away any time soon. Women don't want their husbands using resources on other women/sex.

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Whodunnit88 · 2018-10-16T15:08:43+00:00

I think prostitutes provide an important service.

TheGreasyPole · 2018-10-16T15:32:19+00:00

Q4Men: Do you find prostitutes repulsive and worthless (as partners and/or as members of society)?

No. I may be atypical in that I find them neither repulsive or worthless. I think it’d certainly lower the value I’d put on her as a long term mate, just as less mercenary promiscuity would, but no so faras to make that value 0. And I certainly don’t consider them repulsive.

Q4All: Do you think the stigma against sex work is an injustice and will / should it ever expire?

Yes, I think it’s unjust. I don’t think it will ever expire, although it may reduce (post legalisation). I’d like for it to expire, but as with so many instinctively mediated things it won’t.

ivegotsomequestions0 · 2018-10-16T15:46:39+00:00

Women are stigmatized and seen as repulsive and worthless when using their bodies to support themselves,” she said. “I was in a tough place financially, and I am O.K. with my decisions. Women have sex with vile men all the time so why shouldn’t we be paid for it if we choose? I don’t deserve to be shamed for it, or scammed because of it

I think that you are reading something into this quote that isn't necessarily there. She didn't say anything about what her future partners should or shouldn't think of her, she's just referring to getting ripped off by customers and generalized "shaming" by society.

If anything, the future partners are the only people to whom her escorting is relevant.

I think that the stigma from society is unjust, that both men and women who engage in the transaction benefit from it, that those benefits become social goods on a large scale, and that the downsides of prostitution are controllable. You may be onto something in terms of the stigma existing because people analyze escorts as potential partners. Imo they shouldnt do that unless she is a potential partner.

abaxeron · 2018-10-16T15:56:38+00:00

Too long; didn't read.

Q4Men: Do you find prostitutes repulsive and worthless (as partners and/or as members of society)?

As members of society - No; as partners - different strokes for different folks. I wouldn't prefer a former sex worker as my partner all other things being equal. Speaking of members of society, I think there is way greater stigma against former prison inmates - and we're talking dozens of millions of men worldwide. Those men still work, get education, do underpaid, ungrateful, dangerous, but socially valuable work, and often still end up cumulative net taxpayers even if we account for the money spent on holding them in prisons. Yeah, I'll admit: I went back a couple paragraphs in this post and saw the "blah blah institutional barriers stigma blah" part. Women who blame their shortcomings on their past as sex workers (and ultimately, on men) - know very little about what it means to be living with a stigma burned into your public record for the rest of your life.

Q4All: Do you think the stigma against sex work is an injustice

Yes. Same as stepping on a moth is an injustice. But injustices form a hierarchy, and I'd put stepping on a moth somewhere very deep down.

and will / should it ever expire?

I think sex work should expire. We're on the edge of getting substitutes that will be cheaper, safer, better, and won't have human agency. I'm rooting for male libido switches.

ATastefulNude · 2018-10-16T16:19:57+00:00

Q4All: Do you think the stigma against sex work is an injustice and will / should it ever expire?

"Injustice" isn't the right word. People have varying opinions on sex work, and society's general attitudes about it are always evolving and changing. From holding prostitutes in high regard as women of status within the community, to being considered worthless scum.

I personally consider being a sex worker/hiring sex workers as a totally morally and ethically neutral thing. I think it's a legitimate way to earn and spend money, and I believe it should be fully legal. I don't think sex workers and the people that hire them should be subject to abuse

That said, people are free to have their own opinions on it.

average-brown-dude · 2018-10-16T17:00:46+00:00

I thought sugar babies weren’t supposed to be old ladies lmao

darudeboysandstorm · 2018-10-16T20:29:10+00:00

Q4Men: Do you find prostitutes repulsive and worthless (as partners and/or as members of society)?

Q4All: Do you think the stigma against sex work is an injustice and will / should it ever expire?
No

No

As with the last paragraph though, it is sort of stupid how she phrases that. Like duh people will stigmatize that, youre lucky it is even accepted. I believe sex work is fine because for the most part no one gets hurt. But from a pure logic stand point thats like saying "Men are stigmatized or seen as repulsive or degenerate when they rob people for their goods. Just because the only way I can afford to live in this expensive city with no real skill set is to take from people who do have those skills."

Accept that people don't like what you are doing, and that you are fortunate enough to be able to do it if you need to.

exit_sandman · 2018-10-17T07:26:00+00:00

Q4Men: Do you find prostitutes repulsive and worthless (as partners and/or as members of society)?

Oh, prostitutes can definitely contribute to the welfare of a society after they left the trade and are contributing to a society as long as they're in it.

Still a complete no-no as partners, though.

LeJacquelope · 2018-10-17T09:35:35+00:00

First of all? ROTFLMAO hahahah she ran into someone fowler than she is. Karma's a bitch, ain't it? Get rekt, gold digger. She deserved to get scammed. Women like her do nothing but scam men. I hope no honest woman falls victim to "Jay", though. Not all women are like this loser.

Q#1: No, because they're actually more honest than this bitch. And at least you get laid with a prostitute.

Q#2: The stigma should expire, but sadly it won't be for a very long time.

messiahslave · 2018-10-17T13:34:38+00:00

Q4Men: Do you find prostitutes repulsive and worthless (as partners and/or as members of society)?

No one is worthless but I think what they are doing is wrong and equivalent to throw away your dignity.

I think the same of their clients.

Q4All: Do you think the stigma against sex work is an injustice and will / should it ever expire?

The stigma is just, he should not expire but I don't know if he will or not.

theiamsamurai · 2018-10-17T14:27:30+00:00

Prostitutes are repulsive and worthless. They are more vile than the man they exploit for money. Men who make a lot of money clearly contribute something to society, just because women find them physically repulsive, or they are not masculine or socially adjusted enough doesn't mean they're vile and deserve to be financially exploited. Prostitutes are the worst.

cxj · 2018-10-19T09:35:28+00:00

I wouldn’t hate a prostitute but def would not knowingly date one either

Title	A ‘Sugar Date’ Gone Sour
Author	Mr_Smoogs
Upvotes	12
Comments	186
Date	October 16, 2018 2:37 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9oo71m/a_sugar_date_gone_sour/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/a-sugar-date-gone-sour.259423 https://theredarchive.com/post/259423

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