Article blames masculinity, not ideology, as the cause of terrorism and violent extremism

despisedlove2 · 2018-04-01T07:00:36+00:00

Typical Islamist apologist postmodernist junk.

Salty-Bastard · 2018-04-01T01:47:38+00:00

It's popular nowadays to blame men and masculinity for all of the worlds troubles. The author is full of shit and just trying to sell books.

blackedoutfast · 2018-04-01T05:48:27+00:00

all the SJW nonsense and hardcore feminism can be just as toxic, but women tend to avoid physical violence because they are inherently weaker than men. occasionally women do get involved in that kind of thing but they usually don't last long.

perfect example: that moldylocks antifa cunt who got clocked by the fashy bro at the protest a few months ago. she was all fired up to raise hell but she had no chance once things got real.

squidracer · 2018-04-01T04:21:09+00:00

Women like to blame toxic masculinity because they don't like to admit single moms are responsible

ganso_bum · 2018-04-01T01:39:32+00:00

Toxic Masculinity is enforced and rewarded by women, ergo men use toxic masculinity in order to prove themselves the most masculine of men.

Eventually if you treat someone like a social reject for long enough, they'll join with people who don't treat them as such, even if they're enemies of normal society, because normal society never treated them well anyways.

You reap what you sow.

Tedesche · 2018-04-01T07:41:52+00:00

The concept of toxic masculinity doesn’t mean all masculinity is toxic—that’s why it has a qualifier.

The problem with it is that—like many other feminist concepts—the label becomes looser with every passing year. Kimmel talked about things like men joining terrorist organizations and attributed it to toxic masculinity, but in the short amount of time the term has been vogue, pretty much all bad behavior from men gets categorized as stemming from toxic masculinity by feminists.

The other problem is that, even though the term refers to only some types of masculinity, it foments misandry in the minds of many people who buy into it. In other words, they may say they’re only against the toxic parts of masculinity, but deep down, they really just don’t like men.

Feminism is a veil for man-haters. That doesn’t make it illegitimate, but feminists have historically (and presently) been really bad about admitting it’s a problem within their movement, much less doing anything about it.

Note that what feminists refer to as “toxic masculinity” exists in women too—the female gender role leads plenty of women to do things that are harmful to society—but when feminists talk about that, they refer to it as “internalized sexism.” The concept is ultimately the same, but the rhetoric betrays feminism’s bias: women are victims of patriarchy, men are patriarchal. Patriarchy harms both men and women in the feminist view, but men are the primary supporters of patriarchy, and thus part of the problem. So, they’re not really victims, they’re just bad for themselves without realizing it.

EDIT: Also, notice that they never talk about the ways in which women encourage toxic masculinity, or patriarchy for that matter. In the feminist lens, men are the oppressors, women the oppressed—not expressly, mind you, but functionally.

oihaoerhg · 2018-04-01T04:25:55+00:00

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that most of this kind of violence comes from sexual frustration and that women experience this far less than men so therefore do not have any pent up rage in the same capacity. The sexually frustrated also desire to prove themselves. Women don't need to prove themselves for sex. Extreme violence is a way for these men to prove they were wrongly put in the undesirables category.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2018-04-01T10:42:03+00:00

Masculinity probably has something to do with it, but here's the problem...

Traditional masculinity is to some extent transcultural. So if traditional masculinity caused terrorism and violent extremism we would expect the rates of terrorism and violent extremism to be more or less equal.

Since this is obviously untrue, the only reasonable position to take is that there are many other factors at play here. Ideology and religion are two of them. I mean, compare rates of terrorism committed by Hindu Indians to the rates of Pakistani Muslims... I think ethnically speaking they're relatively similar groups, but are divided by religion. So biology is held generally constant, religion/culture is not.

In the pre-Modi days, there was a huge difference. Post-Modi the difference is still there to a meaningful degree (if less than previously).

Kimmel is a moron and should be ignored. He sometimes gets a few tiny things right but then immediately goes to blame men, blame all men, blame maleness, and absolves women of any blame for anything that any man ever does.

Pope_Lucious · 2018-04-01T03:11:15+00:00

Men ARE more violent.

Does anyone honestly believe otherwise?

TheGreasyPole · 2018-04-01T08:22:45+00:00

Well it's definitely related to maleness, if not necessarily masculinity.

Men are prone to this sort of stuff. Basically, men are highly variable in how they reproduce. A small number do so a lot, a vast bulk in the middle do so a normal amount, a small number at the bottom do not do so at all in roughly20:60:20 proportions. This is in contrast to females that are a LOT less variable.

This has built into men who find themsleves in that bottom 20% a genetic propensity to "do something crazy and dangerous" to try and turn the situation around to gain status.

It's called "running amok" after the malasian word "amok" which describes a young and socially excluded male who picks up a machete and kills a bunch of people.

In their situation (where they're not going to breed anyway) this massive risk, possible reward scenario is favoured against just rubbing along and not breeding.

So men "went amok" in the malasian villages.... the same men in the contemporary US run amok, by shooting up a school, or blowing up a black church.... the same men in the contemporary middle east join ISIS... it's all from the same root. Young men, who aren't going to get far playing "the normal game" who as a result try to create status in a murderous "blaze of glory". Thats where the incentive basically comes from.

It's not masculinity. It's just young disenfranchised men trying to bust out of the hole they are in some way, anyway, and their genetic drives start to support this kind of hyper-aggressive hyper-murderous behaviour to do so.

Thats basically the scinetific explanation anyway...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_amok

Running amok, sometimes referred to as simply amok or gone amok,[1] also spelled amuk, from the Malay[2] and Indonesian languages,[3] is "an episode of sudden mass assault against people or objects usually by a single individual following a period of brooding that has traditionally been regarded as occurring especially in Malay culture but is now increasingly viewed as psychopathological behavior".[4] The syndrome of "Amok" is found in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV TR).[5]

crackrocksteady7 · 2018-04-01T04:19:55+00:00

the feminine ones make memes about killing people and post em online

What are your thoughts on this article?

toxic masculinity did nothing wrong CMV

the_calibre_cat · 2018-04-01T18:51:38+00:00

It's the usual leftist drivel. I do think masculinity is a required component of violence, women haven't started revolutions.

Ordinate1 · 2018-04-01T20:36:19+00:00

Isn't that the same guy, Kimmel, who made himself look like an idiot in The Red Pill movie?

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ifelsedowhile · 2018-04-01T02:04:12+00:00

I was looking at the comments: is the WP one of those neo-leftist rags? The kind of rhetoric Kimmel is peddling, it's usually destroyed in ideologically more neutral environments.

Wallstreet3 · 2018-04-01T04:16:46+00:00

Nothing exists in a vacuum. Toxic Masculinity exists as a response to an existant stimuli. How about deal with that stimuli?

Entropy-7 · 2018-04-01T07:19:14+00:00

It seems like Maslow turned on his head. Some guys will give up on physical and security needs in search of belonging, esteem and self actualization. Masculinity has a role in that biology and social programming seek those things in terms of adventure, danger, and violence/competition. However, you can't discount the role of ideology.

The Boston Marathon Bomber probably didn't have problems with women given how much of a jailhouse heartthrob he became, so ideology was in play.

But really, how many guys in the west actually go all jihadi? Lots of marginalized guys are happy enough to have their 24th level wizard slay orcs rather than getting a gun and slaying people IRL.

SergantCat296 · 2018-04-01T08:07:27+00:00

I don't think ideology is the main driver for extremism or immoral actions, I think it is a mostly egoistical motive.

Men that are not able to fit into society to have a good status are trying to get a head somehow. You can either join an extremist groupe to find peers and a social cycle valueing you, or you could commit crimes start selling drugs to financially get a head on the social ladder.

concacanca · 2018-04-01T08:39:47+00:00

This strikes me as 50% right but focuses far too narrowly on gender at the expense of the characteristics that most other researchers would attribute to these guys.

After all, the lowest common denominator being 'male' is just a step above 'human'.

PadaV4 · 2018-04-01T10:44:12+00:00

Lots of masculine men in my country. yet nothing is blowing up. Hmm.

ContrasexualWoman · 2018-04-01T11:48:35+00:00

As soon as I saw the name Michael Kimmel, I knew it would be misandric.

goatismycopilot · 2018-04-01T12:20:21+00:00

With a few exceptions most men who tip over in violent isms are from the working classes who have been eviscerated by a lack of job opportunities. I think Kimmel missed an opportunity to talk about class because he is American and Americans don't talk about class. I live in MAGA country, I do not agree with the conclusions but the only working class men who do not end up working a crap job at Walmart either hit the recruiters office after high school, manage to start a small one or two man business, or are steered towards skilled trades. Good industrial working class jobs are not coming back. Those jobs were usually unionized and everybody hates unions in America, so it isn't happening.

1UPZ__ · 2018-04-01T12:21:25+00:00

Why would they allow a woman write an article blaming masculinity as cause of terrorism.. WTF.

Do they really want a society with feminine men carrying their partner's hand bags while they shop?... with that fake smile, tight fitting polo short on their narrow shoulders and svelte fragile bodies? Then go with them to have soy latte and talk about cheese and wine? What is this... why are they fighting to get rid of masculinity?

daveofmars · 2018-04-01T21:36:31+00:00

Even though "toxic masculinity" is a can of worms that I'm not going to open, they are more or less right.

Men are found at all the extremes because men can afford to be at the extremes. We take risks. We're willing to fight for what we believe in. We're even willing to die for it. This can be channeled to positive change or destructive change.

I wonder why people think ISIS or the alt-right are such an enigma - They're not. You have young men with no wives or girlfriends and nothing to look forward to in the future, but they know how to destroy things and so they'll be captured by ideologies and religions that destroy things because doing so gives them purpose and meaning. 'Cause I'll tell you one thing: guys with a good job, a nice wife and 2-3 kids aren't going to join a terrorist group.

I see PC culture, #metoo and 4th wave feminism making the problem worse because it creates divisions between the sexes and especially feminism is making a continually-growing list of things men shouldn't do and ever-increasing punishments for those infractions so that young men don't have the opportunity of getting a decent partner without going through enormous effort and personal anxiety, and yet these people wonder where the extremists are coming from?

KikiYuyu · 2018-04-02T11:00:06+00:00

My thoughts are it's another piece blaming men for the circumstance of their birth. People like this hide behind numbers. This is no different that a racist using crime statistics to excuse his hateful views.

analt223 · 2018-04-02T14:35:40+00:00

The problem is the loneliness society that is forming in the west + combined with the fact that women say they want to end gender roles but individually still want a a man whose tall, makes good money, popular, some muscle, etc. AKA a patriarchy

ta1901 · 2018-04-02T17:17:51+00:00

There are parts of masculinity that can be improved, and some parts that are good. Using a minority of men in the world as evidence is pretty biased. Most men are decent, as are most women. I'm not saying they're perfect, I'm saying they aren't totally crazy.

IMO this is not an issue of testosterone, it's an issue that someone might have a mental illness perhaps brought on by some type of abuse. Some people are just more likely to get all riled up without thinking, and join some extremist club as a way to lash out at society they perceive as wrong.

For Kimmel, a sociologist at Stony Brook University in New York

Oh gosh, I thought you were talking about Jimmy Kimmel, the talk show host.

HalfysReddit · 2018-04-02T20:04:46+00:00

IMO it's tangential. There is something about the male sex that lends itself to extreme behavior. It stands to reason that of all the people who have any reason to be motivated into terroristic acts, it would be a majority of men who reach that threshold of motivation to actually join some sort of adversarial group.

lost_jellyfish · 2018-04-01T02:32:54+00:00

There are two people in this article.

Michael Kimmel and his associates. Somenone who has substantial direct experience and success de-escalating hate group members.

And the book reviews author of the article is Dina Temple-Raston who is a journalist for the Washington Post.

The words in your quotes are her words, not his. For example

He believes that gender, specifically masculinity, is both “the psychological inspiration” that sends young men into these groups “and the social glue that keeps them involved.”

are her words wrapped around partial phrases from the experienced activists.

She doesn't seem to have any specific expertise to think her words have much value. She's just someone who sits behind a keyboard.

A thorough read of the article suggests Dina Temple-Raston is misrepresenting what Michael Kimmel is trying to say.

It looks like journo agenda pushing disguised as a book review attempting to piggyback on someone else's credibity.

There's a serious discussion to be had around violence and masculinity, but this article is a joke of a starting point.

Doom_and-Gloom · 2018-04-01T09:12:27+00:00

No, the real cause of terrorism and violent extremism is sexual frustration and chronic loneliness, and until society is ready to acknowledge that (which isn't about to happen anytime soon), this shit will keep happening.

BiggerDthanYou · 2018-04-01T08:00:43+00:00

So, BPers often state on this sub that "toxic masculinity" does not intend to categorize all of masculinity as harmful but only certain parts of it. However, this article may suggest otherwise

This article is about how they get radicalized by exploiting their sense of emasculation, but it makes no mention of "toxic masculinity" at all.

If you want to make a point you should use an article that actually talks about "toxic masculinity".

Title	Article blames masculinity, not ideology, as the cause of terrorism and violent extremism
Author	mittenmaster0
Upvotes	19
Comments	360
Date	April 1, 2018 1:34 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/88ndfs/article_blames_masculinity_not_ideology_as_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/article-blames-masculinity-not-ideology-as-the.263043 https://theredarchive.com/post/263043

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