Jan 6th Hearing Mega-Thread | PurplePillDebate

2022-07-01T16:00:11+00:00

I swear I'm not trying to harp on American politics, but it's like the other countries aren't even trying... Please Join Us on Discord!...

[–]abaxeron✴️(Not Actually) Indian Programmer 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Woko127 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago* (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]StupidWhiteBoiTee Hee 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Woko127 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]yvaN_ehT_nioJyour account has temporarily suspended for being based 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]-angels-fan-Pitbull loving male feminist 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Woko127 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]StarchRunner2 points 4 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Woko127 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]StarchRunner2 points 4 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Woko127 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]StarchRunner2 points 4 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Woko127 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]-angels-fan-Pitbull loving male feminist 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AidsVictim 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Woko127 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]redditcleanslate 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Informal-Beach-7199 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DonQOnIce 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

[–]pokemin49Dark Pills -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]StarchRunner0 points 4 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]DonQOnIce 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NalkaNalkaAdulting ruins lives 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Anti_ThingChristpilled 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]tired_hillbillyredneck 14 points15 points16 points 4 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]__JonnyG -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]nothatyoucare 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]FleischpeitschNo Pill 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]Anti_ThingChristpilled 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]-angels-fan-Pitbull loving male feminist 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]FleischpeitschNo Pill 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheRedPikeTRP Sperg Wrangler 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]FleischpeitschNo Pill 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheRedPikeTRP Sperg Wrangler 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]FleischpeitschNo Pill 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheRedPikeTRP Sperg Wrangler 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AidsVictim 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]FleischpeitschNo Pill 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AidsVictim 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]nothatyoucare 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DonQOnIce 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]tired_hillbillyredneck 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]nothatyoucare -4 points-3 points-2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nothatyoucare 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnActualPersonGirthy 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DonQOnIce 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LillthOfBabylon 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]nothatyoucare 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hungry-Adagio2152 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AreOut 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Diplomaticly for starters. , some western countries even kicked out the Russian diplomats. Go look up the conversations you guys had with Russia before this began. Talking about blowing up Moscow, we American will provide the eu with gas etc what a joke. Then look up Bidens responce once it started. we the liberal west are a fucken joke and have alot to answer for. firstly sacrificing Ukraine and its people for neocon backed nato expansion, to me is a devastating unnecessary loss of life and loss of a country. Then the global santions war is an absolute failure. At a time when Eurasia is forming Brics, one belt and etc. It has divided the planet into separate identitys. with the West potentially being the weaker of the 2. Time will tell.

My layman solution would have been to listen to Russia years ago when they asked for help sorting the situation in the Donbas. Since 2014 over 10000 deaths in the region. My understanding standing the Azov fascist group fighting against Ukraine born Russians. Russia had no choice but to invade the Donbas. We then made it a global situation by acting globally. Look what happened when the eu sanctioned Germany before ww2 started.

America will eventually have to pay the cost to be the boss. Get ready for inflation, world hunger will be a thing again and now your starting with China.lol they might santion America.

Ps to show the double standard did America move into Syria illegally. Or is it okay to santion and fuck the lives of millions of people in the name of left equality.

[–]nothatyoucare 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nothatyoucare 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Slight_Fig5187 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]nothatyoucare 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Anti_ThingChristpilled 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]nothatyoucare 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]nothatyoucare 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]nothatyoucare 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Slight_Fig5187 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]trail22 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (48 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Accomplished_Pie_153 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nothatyoucare 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Diet_Dr_dew 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]nothatyoucare 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]trail22 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]trail22 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]edgyny𝒥𝑒𝓇𝓀-𝑜𝒻𝒻 𝑜𝒻 𝓂𝒶𝓃𝓎 𝓉𝓇𝒶𝒹𝑒𝓈 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link

[–]trail22 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]trail22 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eyesofmalice 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]trail22 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]edgyny𝒥𝑒𝓇𝓀-𝑜𝒻𝒻 𝑜𝒻 𝓂𝒶𝓃𝓎 𝓉𝓇𝒶𝒹𝑒𝓈 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]edgyny𝒥𝑒𝓇𝓀-𝑜𝒻𝒻 𝑜𝒻 𝓂𝒶𝓃𝓎 𝓉𝓇𝒶𝒹𝑒𝓈 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

[–]nothatyoucare 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[–]edgyny𝒥𝑒𝓇𝓀-𝑜𝒻𝒻 𝑜𝒻 𝓂𝒶𝓃𝓎 𝓉𝓇𝒶𝒹𝑒𝓈 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

[–]nothatyoucare 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

No, it seems like you are high on your own farts.

Nah, its that you don't know what you're talking about.

It's perfectly simple: maybe these things you assert are good for the people you despise, aren't actually what they want.

This is actually true, but not for the reasons you think. Its not that the legislation proposed ISN'T good for these people, it is. And they still don't want it because people in flyover country vote against their own economic self interests. The book "What's the matter with Kansas" goes into this.

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2021/12/31/james-seidelman-john-p/

https://www.economicliberties.us/media/new-york-times-why-the-working-class-votes-against-its-economic-interests/

For instance, every time Bernie Sanders gets in front of a Fox Audience, he kills. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jthr_9gIkKo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ozAACcc8I

Meanwhile you get Republicans voting for tax breaks that will never benefit them and make their day to day life worse.

[–]edgyny𝒥𝑒𝓇𝓀-𝑜𝒻𝒻 𝑜𝒻 𝓂𝒶𝓃𝓎 𝓉𝓇𝒶𝒹𝑒𝓈 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]Devourer_of_felines 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnActualPersonGirthy 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Devourer_of_felines 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnActualPersonGirthy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]WestsideMoonWalkerGrizzly Bear Conflict Manager 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]WestsideMoonWalkerGrizzly Bear Conflict Manager 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

The SUV was seemingly stolen and they were joyriding through a public park. The way it was set up, you weren't supposed to drive through the area as someone drove in and shot a protestor previously. This was also far later than that and was the reason it got shut down. The whole thing was ridiculous but it wasn't an insurrection.

Edit: some context, hard to find anything definitive: https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/hni44w/comment/fxc9m6x/

Anyway, this all could have been averted if SPD didn't suck so incredibly hard. They've kept covering up who gave the order to evacuate for years until what I believe was relatively recently.

More context to why they evacuated; https://southseattleemerald.com/2021/10/04/opa-decision-answers-some-questions-about-east-precinct-evacuation-raises-others/

If you want to know what actually happened, no, it was not burned down. Still stands there today.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Devourer_of_felines 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AnActualPersonGirthy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnActualPersonGirthy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]edgyny𝒥𝑒𝓇𝓀-𝑜𝒻𝒻 𝑜𝒻 𝓂𝒶𝓃𝓎 𝓉𝓇𝒶𝒹𝑒𝓈 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]-angels-fan-Pitbull loving male feminist -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]edgyny𝒥𝑒𝓇𝓀-𝑜𝒻𝒻 𝑜𝒻 𝓂𝒶𝓃𝓎 𝓉𝓇𝒶𝒹𝑒𝓈 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]tired_hillbillyredneck 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]edgyny𝒥𝑒𝓇𝓀-𝑜𝒻𝒻 𝑜𝒻 𝓂𝒶𝓃𝓎 𝓉𝓇𝒶𝒹𝑒𝓈 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]figuringMylifeas the Blacks say 🙇🏾‍♀️ -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Barely-moralRed leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (60 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]GlowingAsItDazzlesLVW 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]nothatyoucare 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj0R9QedwG4

The House committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack on Tuesday shared radio transmissions from police identifying supporters of former President Donald Trump who were carrying firearms including AR-15s, rifles and Glock pistols on the National Mall on the morning of the insurrection.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters-were-armed-here-are-the-weapons-prosecutors-say-they-used

But a review of the federal charges against the alleged rioters shows that they did come armed, and with a variety of weapons: stun guns, pepper spray, baseball bats and flagpoles wielded as clubs. An additional suspect also allegedly planted pipe bombs by the headquarters of the Democratic and Republican parties the night before the riot and remains at large.

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/06/15/fact-check-were-firearms-other-weapons-capitol-jan-6/7621149001/

PolitiFact reviewed the case files for hundreds of defendants who were arrested and charged for their actions at the Capitol on Jan. 6 and found several defendants who police say were found to have brought firearms. Some were charged with having firearms on Capitol grounds while others stashed them nearby:

Lonnie Coffman of Alabama was found with multiple weapons in his vehicle and on his person. Coffman’s truck, which he had parked in the vicinity of the Capitol on the morning of Jan. 6, was packed with weaponry, including a handgun, a rifle and a shotgun, each loaded, according to court documents. In addition, the truck held hundreds of rounds of ammunition, several large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, a crossbow with bolts, machetes, camouflage smoke devices, a stun gun and 11 Molotov cocktails. When Coffman was detained, questioned and searched, police found two more handguns on his person. None of the weapons were registered, documents state. Coffman pleaded guilty and was sentenced in April to 46 months in prison followed by three years of supervised release. Guy Reffitt of Texas was charged with bringing a handgun onto Capitol grounds. Court documents showed that Reffitt, reported to be a member of the Three Percenters militia group, told his family he brought his gun with him and that he and others "stormed the Capitol." A jury found Reffitt guilty of five felony charges in March, and he remains detained pending sentencing.

Christopher Michael Alberts of Maryland also brought his handgun onto Capitol grounds. An officer saw that Alberts had a gun on his hip and alerted fellow officers. When Alberts tried to flee, officers detained him and recovered the loaded handgun, along with a separate magazine. He has been indicted on ten felony counts. In his conspiratorial documentary series "Patriot Purge," Carlson featured a man named Mark Ibrahim, a former agent for the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, and falsely claimed that Ibrahim was forced from his job and indicted for simply being near the Capitol protest.

But court documents show that Ibrahim had already submitted his intent to resign from the DEA weeks before Jan. 6 and was indicted because he brought a gun with him onto Capitol grounds and made false statements to federal agents.

The total number of people who carried firearms with them that day may not ever be fully accounted for because the majority of those involved in the siege weren’t arrested on-site but were tracked down by law enforcement days, weeks and months later.

It’s also important to note that an insurrection is a violent uprising against the government, and the definition of "armed" is not legally limited to guns; it refers to any weapon used for defense or offense and as a means of protection. Other items used as weapons on Jan. 6 included bats, crutches, flagpoles, skateboards, fire extinguishers and chemical sprays.

Our ruling Carlson claimed that no one in the crowd on Jan. 6 was found with a firearm.

That’s inaccurate. Many of those involved in the attack were armed, and several had guns that police later seized.

We rate his claim False.

PolitiFact reporter Bill McCarthy contributed to this report.

Our Sources Fox News, Tucker Carlson Tonight, June 10, 2022 PolitiFact, Jan. 6 defendants were armed with guns, other weapons, documents show, July 13, 2021 PolitiFact, Carlson's Jan. 6 documentary doesn’t tell full story about former DEA agent, Nov. 2, 2021 Court Listener, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. LONNIE LEROY COFFMAN, Jan. 12, 2021 U.S. Department of Justice, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. GUY WESLEY REFFITT, Jan. 16, 2021 U.S. Department of Justice, Christopher Albert STATEMENT OF FACTS, Jan. 7, 2021

[–]StarchRunner1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]nothatyoucare 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Barely-moralRed leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I am aware. There is a reason that shit did not work. Because the electors are not the institution needed to run your country. A coup that doesn't take over the institutions needed to run a country is not a coup. A "coup" that doesn't even attempt it doesn't even deserve to be called an attempt at coup.

Again, look at actual coups. The ones the united states stages. First you identify the institutions needed to run a country, then you take over as much of them as you can without the use of violence, after you know that at least some of them will back the new regime you take control of or destroy the rest of the required institutions through force. If you used destruction as an option you need to replace them with another institution that will fill the same role.

You need institutions to keep the masses calm through non violent methods, churches, media, non guvernmental asociations that carry some good will. You need institutions that will keep shit under control through violent means, police, military, mafias, guerillas. You need institutions that keep the economy going, investors, unions, companies, banks. You need political institutions because leading and organizing a country is hard work.

Those institutions need to believe that backing up the one making the coup is something that will benefit them more than the status quo. If a coup is not doing the work to gain the favour of those institutions then it doesn't even get the name. It isn't even an attempt.

[–]GlowingAsItDazzlesLVW -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnActualPersonGirthy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]GlowingAsItDazzlesLVW -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnActualPersonGirthy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]GlowingAsItDazzlesLVW 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AnActualPersonGirthy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Barely-moralRed leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]nothatyoucare 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How can it be taken seriously if there was no plan on what to do if said attempt succeeded?

Oh, so you have no clue what they were trying to do that day. You could have saved everyone a lot of time by saying, "I have these ideas about Jan 6th because I'm ignorant of the events surrounding the day".

A coup d'état (/ˌkuːdeɪˈtɑː/ (listen); French for 'stroke of state'),[1] (also known as a coup or overthrow) is a seizure and removal of a government and its powers. Typically, it is an illegal seizure of power by a political faction, rebel group, military, or a dictator.

So Trump was pressuring Pence to not certify the results of the election. Pence went to Dan Quayle to see if it was possible. Quayle was basically "don't try it, your only job is there to certify the count". So Pence tells Trump he can't do anything.

So here comes January 6th. From 7 battleground states illegitimate Republican electors arrived with fake election certificates. The hope was they could cast doubt on who won the electoral college. If so, then the vote would be sent to the House of Representatives. There the 12th amendment comes into play. The 12th states that voting on a contested election would not be done by a simple majority vote, but instead the election vote would be counted in blocs of state delegations, with one vote per state. Republicans controlled more delegations in the House of Representatives, which would mean Trump would win despite losing both the popular vote and the electoral college.

The riots outside were meant as a delay tactic to allow this to happen while at the same time to put pressure on Pence. "Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!" And then the crowd starts chanting "Hang Mike Pence, Hang Mike Pence".

That's why Pence refused to get into the Limo with Secret Service. He knew they would take him away from Congress, delay the certification, and kick all this into motion. Instead he stayed, certified the votes.

But there was a very real plan, it just didn't succeed. And this was definitely a coup.

[–]AidsVictim 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

A coup that doesn't include the military? A coup that doesn't include the main industries? A coup that doesn't include taking over every official media source? A coup that doesn't include the death or imprisonment of every single significant political opposition?

It's just a stupid fantasy for liberals that it amounted to anything besides a weak ass riot where the only people hurt or killed were the rioters. There's some vague idea that they were going to "overturn the election" (how? a bunch of boomers yelling at senators?) but pretty much ever piece of evidence (the protestors were armed, the protestors killed police, there was a directed plot of some kind) that was claimed for weeks and months afterwards by the press turned out to be a fabrication (you know, propaganda).

It's important to liberals to keep up the facade though because it gives the state legitimacy even as material conditions worsen - even if your life sucks because of inflation, you better support us because we're the only thing standing between you and the fascists.

Wasn't the same year when you had multiple cities being torn apart by actual protests because of George Floid or whoever that day's victim was?

Contrary to what other posters are saying pretty much every downtown business where I live was broken into and several burned down, ironically including the homeless shelter and soup kitchen serving mostly POC. They also tried to claim it was "out of town white supremacists" who torched places for a week or so but that one was just too ridiculous even for the most sympathetic liberal to swallow.

[–]AnActualPersonGirthy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AidsVictim 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They were armed,

Who inside the capitol building was armed? What were their names and what were they armed with?

No evidence that the protestors who broke into the capitol were armed has ever bene presented. At best this is the media conflating groups in periphery to the actual protest who were armed.

they did kill police,

What were their names?

Not a single officer who listed as "killed" by the media on 1/6 actually died there. They were post incident suicides or died from unrelated causes afterwards (i.e. Sicknick) . The only people who were killed on 1/6 were protestors.

and they openly coordinated on social media

Like every protest in modern history?

Stop running interference for this bullshit.

Should be easy to list the names of armed protestors inside the capitol building and what officers died. Go ahead.

[–]trail22 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

Typical right-wing apologia.

Latin American countries have protests/coups but rarely do government buildings get overrun. Chile had mass protests in 2019 and the seat of government was secure throughout. So actually Jan 6th was a huge fail in that regard.

Also people call Jan 6 an attempted coup, so your argument that “no political opposition died” is tantamount to saying it wasn’t a big deal because the Trumpistas didn’t seize Mike Pence and kill him.

I don’t know how to put this politely but Jan 6 apologism is a dealbreaker for me, I cannot take someone seriously who thinks breaching the federal chamber during the ratification of an election is “no big deal.” Hitler declared a new government and stormed the provincial legislature in Munich with 2000 guys. That’s fewer people and in a regional govt seat, and that incident (beer hall putsch) is remembered as an attempted coup. The mental gymnastics necessary to minimize Jan 6 are beyond the pale imo.

[–]Barely-moralRed leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Typical right-wing apologia.

Nope. Not a right winger. Not i am saying that Jan 6th events were good nor right. All I am saying is that that was not a coup.

Latin American countries have protests/coups but rarely do government buildings get overrun. Chile had mass protests in 2019 and the seat of government was secure throughout. So actually Jan 6th was a huge fail in that regard.

Yes. I said it. The problem is not the protest. The problem was the poor security.

Also people call Jan 6 an attempted coup, so your argument that “no political opposition died” is tantamount to saying it wasn’t a big deal because the Trumpistas didn’t seize Mike Pence and kill him.

A coup that does not secure enough institutions to run s country is not a a coup. It's a protest, a mess. It can't even be called an attempt at coup. Can anyone tell me what was the plan if that "coup" succeeded? Which institutions would have backed up the new regime? Enough of them to continue running the country? What a joke.

I don’t know how to put this politely but Jan 6 apologism is a dealbreaker for me

Good. I am not.doing that. When a protest gets into a government building that protest should end with guns. It shouldn't be allowed to happen in the first place.

I cannot take someone seriously who thinks breaching the federal chamber during the ratification of an election is “no big deal.”

It's not a coup. It's not an attempt at coup. It's a protest in an inconvenient place.

Hitler declared a new government and stormed the provincial legislature in Munich with 2000 guys. That’s fewer people and in a regional govt seat, and that incident (beer hall putsch) is remembered as an attempted coup

Because that guy ended up proving that he could get the institutions needed to run the country in his side.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

A coup is defined as the seizure and removal of a government. Securing institutions isn’t necessary at all. An obvious example: during the French Revolution, the revolutionaries didn’t “secure” the old court system, old aristocratic system, even the old military. It was a mob with guns that created the new institutions from scratch. Just like Jan 6th there were guys with military experience who became the new army/police chiefs.

If Jan 6th rioters had gotten Mike Pence, killed him, and declared Trump President, they would have been surrounded by military and probably killed as rebels. Coups can be attempted and crushed.

Finally, Hitler’s attempted coup was in 1923. He wouldn’t become dictator for another 10 years. His 1923 attempts was called a coup at the time despite not co-opting any institutions.

I am genuinely curious, why do you think securing institutions is a prerequisite to pulling off a coup? Did you read this somewhere? Cynically I think you adopted this definition to conveniently exclude Jan 6th but I want to assume good faith.

[–]Barely-moralRed leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

A coup is defined as the seizure and removal of a government. Securing institutions isn’t necessary at all.

The bare minimum requires the destruction of the institutions that were part of the government that is being overtaken/removed. If you are not at least trying to do that you are not doing a coup.

An obvious example: during the French Revolution, the revolutionaries didn’t “secure” the old court system, old aristocratic system, even the old military. It was a mob with guns that created the new institutions from scratch. Just like Jan 6th there were guys with military experience who became the new army/police chiefs.

Jan 6th did not create nor attempt to create institutions to replace the ones they did not try to destroy.

If Jan 6th rioters had gotten Mike Pence, killed him, and declared Trump President, they would have been surrounded by military and probably killed as rebels. Coups can be attempted and crushed.

And since jan 6th did not try to destroy enough institutions to destroy the current goverment, did not try to replace enough institutions to form a new government nor did it try to take over enough institutions to take control of the government it is not a coup. Not even a failed one.

Finally, Hitler’s attempted coup was in 1923. He wouldn’t become dictator for another 10 years. His 1923 attempts was called a coup at the time despite not co-opting any institutions.

Anything that applies to his attempt at 1923 and also applies to jan 6th recieves the same criticism and opinion I stated.

I am genuinely curious, why do you think securing institutions is a prerequisite to pulling off a coup? Did you read this somewhere? Cynically I think you adopted this definition to conveniently exclude Jan 6th but I want to assume good faith.

Because I am from south america and our story is riddled with coups and attempts at coups and failed coups, things that can't even be considered coups but the ones doing them want to call coup to feel important and things that can't even be considered coups but the ones with power benefit from making them a big deal so they call them coups.

What I see happening to the USA right now is the status quo government using the first time in history a protest got out of hand in a place of significance to scare the US population into compliance.

I don't support what happened or was attempted in Jan 6th, but it was not a coup and I don't trust anyone in a position of power that calls it a coup or a serious threat to democracy. Anyone that knows how power works knows that Jan 6th was a joke with no real way to succeed.

[–]Eyesofmalice 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

FIrst off, I'm playing devil's advocate because I don't really belive it was a coup.

however, I thing there are some things worth considering. the paralal with Floyd's protests are quite useful, in the sense that they whowed how rapildy the police will mobilize to protect the interests of the ruiling class, that is their private property.

We have seen time and time again how justice in america only cares to penalize those who are in a disadvantaged position as well.

wouldn't that lead us to belive that the police sort of "looked away" while it was all unfolding, hoping the mob would take the blame for eliminating certain politicians who represented more progressive ideas?

I don't think it's a coup though, but maybe an internal paramilitary action sanctioned by the state. Here in south america we discover every other month it seems, that european and american companies back paramilitary groups to further their economic intesrests. wouldn't the capitol riot be a big fake in which the state stages public discontent in the hopes of orchestrating political assasination?

(I hope my word salad is'nt too shambolic. sorry in advance)

[–]Barely-moralRed leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

the paralal with Floyd's protests are quite useful, in the sense that they whowed how rapildy the police will mobilize to protect the interests of the ruiling class, that is their private property.

Or the Floyd protests were worse so they required a heavier response because they seem to be escalating nation wide.

We have seen time and time again how justice in america only cares to penalize those who are in a disadvantaged position as well.

Not unique to América. It is not a bug, it's a feature.

wouldn't that lead us to belive that the police sort of "looked away" while it was all unfolding, hoping the mob would take the blame for eliminating certain politicians who represented more progressive ideas?

If that happened, it is still not a coup. It is also stupid because mobs are like an out of control fire. They don't see any difference between people. Humans are intelligent and rational, mobs are stupid.

I don't think it's a coup though, but maybe an internal paramilitary action sanctioned by the state. Here in south america we discover every other month it seems, that european and american companies back paramilitary groups to further their economic intesrests. wouldn't the capitol riot be a big fake in which the state stages public discontent in the hopes of orchestrating political assasination?

Nah, when the US institutions instigate an event like that it actually works. They have years of practice in multiple countries.

[–]Eyesofmalice 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Devourer_of_felines 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Devourer_of_felines 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]AidsVictim 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The scale and intended goals were similar

Hitler (and other groups involved) intended to install a national dictatorship and were armed professional soldiers. Jan 6th was a bunch of random citizens who as much as they had a goal was to force a recount and auditing of the votes (not dissimilar from something like the 2000 election). It's massively different and dishonest to make this comparison.

For your sake I hope you don’t defend Jan 6th in public, it will get you ostracized in professional circles.

This really sums up what's so insidious and dangerous about the bourgeoise and petit bourgeoise aspirants: using economic power to silence and destroy the lives of those who violate whatever their approved political narrative is and then turn around and accuse the violators of being fascists.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Hitler’s mob were paramilitaries, many veterans of WW1 and others Nazi fanatics. They were hardly armed, as 130 police stopped their march by opening fire. Obviously 130 police could not stop 2000 armed professional soldiers.

NPR reports that 20% of Capitol riot arrestees are current or ex-military. A few rioters were charged for bringing a handgun onto Capitol grounds.

More generally, are you defining an attempted coup based on the professionalism of the citizens involved? If it’s 100% military vets, is it an attempted coup then, even if they “walk around and leave”?

I can refuse to associate with or hire you, after all we live in a capitalistic free-market society. If you don’t like it, make your own money, take it up with the Fair Employment Board, vote for a new system, or move to Venezuela. Throwing around and misspelling “bourgeoisie” doesn’t strengthen your argument that my comparison of 1923 and Jan 6th is dishonest.

[–]AidsVictim 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hitler’s mob were paramilitaries, many veterans of WW1 and others Nazi fanatics. They were hardly armed, as 130 police stopped their march by opening fire. Obviously 130 police could not stop 2000 armed professional soldiers.

Hitler and many of the SA (I'm not sure how many out of the hundreds present) were armed including heavy weapons like machine guns. Hitler fired his own gun and people had guns pointed at them (on both sides) during most of the putsch. They were defeated mostly because it became apparent that the military/police weren't going over to their side in sufficient numbers and the state was able to react fast enough with outside forces.

NPR reports that 20% of Capitol riot arrestees are current or ex-military. A few rioters were charged for bringing a handgun onto Capitol grounds.

More generally, are you defining an attempted coup based on the professionalism of the citizens involved? If it’s 100% military vets, is it an attempted coup then, even if they “walk around and leave”?

I base it on the intention and nature of the "coup". The beer hall putsch was primarily military driven, almost everyone in leadership positions and even the rank and file were former or current military men with definitive plans to create a (military) dictatorship.

It's qualitatively different from from a bunch of protestors who think they're going to force a voting recount or something. There's some vague narrative that the protestors were going to kidnap electors or congress people and force them to vote in Trump, as if anything remotely like that were possible even if there had been some cohesive plan. It's mostly dreamed up to legitimize the state in the face of it's other failings.

I can refuse to associate with or hire you, after all we live in a capitalistic free-market society. If you don’t like it, make your own money, take it up with the Fair Employment Board, vote for a new system, or move to Venezuela.

I don't need to do that, I've already made plenty of money in the current system working in the guts of corporations and can make plenty more. That's how I know just how rotten, delusional, and hypocritical the system is and how dangerous it is to free speech and ideas. The modern liberal-capitalist state excels above all in controlling the thoughts and behaviors of it's subjects.

Throwing around and misspelling “bourgeoisie” doesn’t strengthen your argument that my comparison of 1923 and Jan 6th is dishonest.

It's apparent on it's face a military coup to create a dictatorship and protest about votes are not at all comparable, except to the degree that bourgeoise liberalism fears and hates them both.

[–]Devourer_of_felines 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Ok I will bite.

OP’s initial assertion was that this wasn’t a coup, it was a protest, why is everyone handwringing.

I clarified his strawman by stating Jan 6th is considered an attempted coup. He sneakily said “coup” so he could pretend like coups have to succeed to be a big deal.

I then gave a famous example of a mob of 2000 guys storming a government building, the leader going to jail, and the event being largely remembered as an attempted coup. That event is Hitler’s 1923 coup attempt.

If it’s the case that both the 1923 event and Jan 6th share many similarities (similar size, storming a government building, wanting to delete the government), then OP must explain why Jan 6th doesn’t count as an attempted coup, or why 1923 shouldn’t count as a coup. He’s done neither. Instead he called me a snowflake and privileged to be alive, despite knowing nothing about me.

You are doubling down by saying I’m out of touch with the working class. I bring up professional circles because in that world, where money and livelihoods are on the line and it’s not just mudslinging on Reddit, the kind of bad faith arguments from OP would be laughed at. I have read intelligent defenses of Jan 6th which I think are seriously flawed, but OP’s and yours are not among them. Just read your last sentence: you seriously think that white-collared workers who are employed don’t care about Jan 6th? Among Republican voters, 48% polled (CBS May 18th poll) said the Jan 6th investigation is very or somewhat important. Your assertion is demonstrably false as a 10 second google search shows. That kind of carelessness with facts and reality isn’t tolerated when one has to make decisions with money/lives on the line.

[–]Devourer_of_felines 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnActualPersonGirthy 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]figuringMylifeas the Blacks say 🙇🏾‍♀️ -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Drive-By-Cuckers 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Temporary-Drawing212 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Barely-moralRed leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnActualPersonGirthy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Barely-moralRed leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnActualPersonGirthy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Barely-moralRed leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Drive-By-Cuckers 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Barely-moralRed leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Barely-moralRed leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Barely-moralRed leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

It was a tiny protest that breached the Capitol building with occupants inside who were targeted and who wanted the current election results not to be certified.

Still a tiny protest. The only truly bad thing that happens was showing everyone in the world how easily a well organized terrorist group could have killed every politician there if they wanted to.

A coup that does not include or takes over the institutions needed to run a country is not a coup. It's a protest.

I understand that happens every day in a bunch of shitty South American countries with permenant instability, death squads, extreme swings between left and right, and corrupt public institutions owned by narcos and everybody is fine with it.

It's not that we are fine with it, its that we recognize that is not a coup. Some among us are surprised america got this far before devolving into protests and populism. Is the natural way to go if your country allows for freedom of expression and protests. Eventually the lunatics will make a protest in a stupid place for a stupid reason. Plan for it.

But being a third world country is new for the US and people have not adapted yet.

It's either populism and stupid protests that go out of hand or erasure of political freedoms. Take your pick.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Barely-moralRed leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Barely-moralRed leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]edgyny𝒥𝑒𝓇𝓀-𝑜𝒻𝒻 𝑜𝒻 𝓂𝒶𝓃𝓎 𝓉𝓇𝒶𝒹𝑒𝓈 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]dbz19_kaiBlackpink-pilled 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]tired_hillbillyredneck 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]dbz19_kaiBlackpink-pilled 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DrinkItInMan11Red Pill Man 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnActualPersonGirthy 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hungry-Adagio2152 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AnActualPersonGirthy 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]TigerRude4 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TigerRude4 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]nothatyoucare 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BeepBeepYeah7789Space Trucker 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnActualPersonGirthy -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nothatyoucare 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]dbz19_kaiBlackpink-pilled 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I do not think big criminal charges with come out of the Jan 6th hearings. So they will not amount to anything.

If Trump wiggles out then either he or DeSantis will run for the nomination. Romney or somebody similar will try and cast themselves as the alternative and lose the nomination and it will be Trump or DeSants.

Now that the SC is owned by the right I would expect more reversals around climate change, religion, gay marriage, further erosion of other key rights so the conservatives/evangelicals are already going yo be getting what they want.

The 2024 election will be ugly and if Biden runs, he will lose because of gas prices/ inflation/ other economic factors.

Next time if for some reason a Dem does win in 2024 the lessons of Jan 6th will have been analyzed and whoever tries again will be more effective.

[–]-ImmortalOrochi-So Red so Godly -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sure-Vermicelli4369 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]yvaN_ehT_nioJyour account has temporarily suspended for being based 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mrs_DrgreeNow Accepting Simp Applications 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]yvaN_ehT_nioJyour account has temporarily suspended for being based 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mrs_DrgreeNow Accepting Simp Applications 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]dbz19_kaiBlackpink-pilled 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]yvaN_ehT_nioJyour account has temporarily suspended for being based 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PlayfulLawyerNo Pill 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FancyComfortable4678 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]DuploJamaal 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]FancyComfortable4678 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TigerRude4 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]max_peenorCertified TRP Shitlord 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]The_Meep_Lord 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ThisBoringLifeLife is a mix of pills 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]TigerRude4 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Jan 6th Hearing Mega-Thread
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	2
Comments	211
Date	July 1, 2022 4:00 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/vp485a/jan_6th_hearing_megathread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/jan-6th-hearing-mega-thread.1121832 https://theredarchive.com/post/1121832

Comments