Why do blue-pillers hate TRP?

EntitledShitHead · 2016-04-24T18:41:16+00:00

If you really look at the top posts in our archives, you'll see that most of the posts aren't misogynistic or offensive. In fact a lot of the...

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Every group has their own set of "truths" so TRP is no different in that respect. You can disagree but going beyond that is a bit of pot/kettle nonsense.

Not when you tell impressionable young men "this is absolute fact".

The anger largely is not needless because it is part of the process of coming to the Red Pill. A big chunk of guys who come to TRP have been fucked over by a woman or women and are angry about it, but that is just a phase, hence "the anger phase". From what I have seen, the vast majority of members who have been around for a while get past the anger.

I completely disagree. I don't think encouraging or enabling destructive anger is healthy. I think it's needless, it promotes bad behavior and beliefs, and it ultimately will contribute to a person's unhappiness.

Even the long time members who certifiably hate women don't seem to be angry about it, they will just tell you matter of factly that "women ain't shit" or something along those lines.

And you think that's a good thing? Those people are clearly angry and hateful, don't rationalize it to be anything else.

[–]Entropy-7Old Goat5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Not when you tell impressionable young men "this is absolute fact".

So we agree that feminism is at least as odious.

TRP doesn't encourage or enable anger, destructive or otherwise. It does provide a place for guys to blow off steam and then move past their anger. Swallowing The Red Pill is analogous to the grieving process (and in a way is a grieving process) and anger is an initial and perfectly natural reaction to having your life turned upsidedown. Slamming it as unjustified, invalid, or just plain wrong instead of empathizing and helping people to get past it is far more damaging and even dangerous.

Personally, I don't think that is a good thing. I don't hate women, I find them to be rather nifty. Most RP guys not in the anger phase don't hate women either (it would be chick-level irrationality to hate something that you desire or desire something you hate) . The fact that the long time haters are not angry is a fact supported by observation rather than a rationalization.

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You can argue with most opinions regarding the factual basis for those opinions. And the factual basis comes out of observation. You don't spend a lot of time on TRP and see what you want to see.

Correct, I spend a lot of time IRL instead. And I could say the same exact thing about you. You only see what you want to see because TRP told you to see it that way. My observations don't fit many of TRPs. Yours might, but TRP doesn't make you the authority on the matter.

I'll get back to you on the hater thread but nasty, on the part of the haters, is certainly no surprise. My guess is that the non-haters explaining the way the world works probably seem nasty and inaccurate to you for various reasons.

You act as if I'm the only one lol. And no, I don't disagree with everything the non hating TRPers believe. But most of them, the ones who actually know what it's about, aren't nasty and inaccurate, nor do I call them out as such. But maybe to you they seem accurate because that's what you choose to see through your TRP blinders.

Do you see the circular argument we are having?

[–]Entropy-7Old Goat5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I spent 30 years of my adult life IRL before I read anything from TRP. A lot of what is on there match my experiences and provide a theoretical framework to organize and explain those experiences. TRP didn't tell me what to see but offered an explanation of why I saw what I saw.

Here, though, I am talking about your observations of TRP itself and the way you have formed an opinion based on a paucity of direct observation and more likely by reading second hand accounts which are equally uninformed and therefore invalid.

No, you are not the only one, you are just one more dogmatic fembot programmed by feminist culture your entire life.

I'm not sure which TRP blinders you are referring to as you seem to be agreeing with me.

What is circular is that you don't like what you don't like and what you don't like is easier to dismiss as nasty and inaccurate rather than examining how accurate it is and why such stated facts trigger your dislike.

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[–]Entropy-7Old Goat2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I told you I don't believe in the angry twerps who spout off bullshit

Actually, you never said that. You said:

What I don't like is the ridiculous vitriol that you see often posted by "anger phase" terpers.

I pointed out that the anger is transitory and part of a natural and positive process.

If one of your sisters came out of a bad break up and was angry and hateful, do you honestly expect us to believe that you would invalidate her feelings, defend the guy, point out her inaccuracies in perception and tell her that you don't like it that she is being angry and hateful and spewing bullshit?

What you also wrote was:

the ones who actually know what it's about, aren't nasty and inaccurate,

I never defended "phasers" as being polite and accurate in their ranting, but I am distinguishing among those past the anger phase who "know what it's about" and those you would claim don't know and are therefore nasty and inaccurate. Most speak uncomfortable truths that feminists deem to be "nasty and inaccurate" because it offends their self esteem and goes counter to the bullshit they have been fed all their lives.

I don't disagree with everything the non hating TRPers believe.

I am not agreeing with you, you are agreeing with me.

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Well then what are your alternatives? If you have young men who all keep having of repeats of terrible episodes of rejection or exploitation at the hands of women. What do you tell them that will snap them out that self destruction cycle and actively keep them out of it in the future?

The information is left up the individual. Some people have a higher propensity for grudges and hatred. You don't water down messages in hopes of making the other readers more socially palatable. That's not anyone's responsibility.

Also what's your definition of productive? Take a fat out of shape, exploited and depressed male then encourage him to become a self proficient, healthy, sexually attractive adult who no long takes shit and finally feels in control. So what if he hates women. The only way that isn't considered productive is if women's happiness with said guy is the metric you're using to measure productiveness.

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[–]Princeso_Bubblegum☭ The real red pill ☭9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Red pill is a super toxic environment which brings about truly disgusting people who hate women, are super fucking racist, have absolutely no morals and are willing to manipulate people and abuse them.

Yes, you can do, "but not all red pillers are like that," sure, whatever. You you know what, they are common enough that I bump into those people you don't say exist on this very fucking forum! Last week I literally had a conversation with someone who thought that the Muslims were going to take over the world, on this exact forum.

There is also a huge psuedo science side to red pill, you guys espouse science and rationalism and evolutionary psychology, but hate actual psychology and sociology. If you honestly believe that "big pharma" is out to get you, then you are no better than a fucking Scientologist.

Lastly, most of these discussions are super-hypothetical. I swear, some of you have never talked to a woman who you didn't have an interest in fucking or something. Sure there is in-equality in the dating arena, but not to the conspiracy level you guys take it. And even if all you say was true, you kinda just lay back and accept the world, why not fucking right this inequity, don't just feed into it!

also, fuck traditionalism

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I know they hide evidence of harm and promote evidence of efficacy and safety, even when there is none. I know they systemically manipulate data to make this happen. I know they spend more on advertising than they do on R&D, despite all their clams about "saving lives". I know that medications errors and adverse events account for a huge percentage of hospitalizations in the US (I think it might be third behind obesity and smoking). I know they routinely violate the FDA regulations they've agreed to abide by. I know they lobby against patients having remedies when they get caught. Who do you think is a major contributor to the chamber of congress? Big Pharma.

I know they are out for one thing and one thing only - profits - even at the direct expense of patient safety. And don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with wanting or making a profit - they absolutely have to do so to be innovative. But when you're making billions and people are dying or suffering catastrophic injuries because you aren't complying with the very rules that are meant to protect patients, something is wrong. I can't speak to the vaccine or biologics industries, but this is all true of big Pharma, even trusted names like J&J.

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Red pill is a super toxic environment which brings about truly disgusting people who hate women, are super fucking racist, have absolutely no morals and are willing to manipulate people and abuse them.

I've chatted with a lot of ECs and Vanguards, and none of them are racist, or misogynistic. Nobody thinks that racism and misogyny are a good thing — We HATE people who spread those kind of ideas. However, the PC culture we live in is a little bit ridiculous -- almost everything is offensive and a triggering these days. A few weeks ago, I offered a blue haired chick my seat on the bus, and she was outraged and called me a sexist. For offering her my seat?

have absolutely no morals and are willing to manipulate people and abuse them.

I can't speak for red pill as a whole, but I personally believe that morals are societal constructs to help the world function as a whole. Some morals are bullshit, and I have justifiable reasons not to follow them. However; I believe they are important for the world as a whole, so I do A LOT of things in real life to contribute to society. I am very involved in my community. If you met me in real life, you would probably be taken a back at finding out I hang around these places.

but hate actual psychology and sociology. If

Most of our top posts cite a TON of credible sources

If you honestly believe that "big pharma" is out to get you, then you are no better than a fucking Scientologist.

A lot of our audience members suffer from depression. Instead of taking a pill that numbs you on the inside, what's wrong with telling the kid to start running and lifting, and start setting goals to set himself up for success?

Lastly, most of these discussions are super-hypothetical. I swear, some of you have never talked to a woman who you didn't have an interest in fucking or something.

Do you think white knights defend the honor of some random chick because of the goodness of their heart, or because they think that doing that will get them closer to bedding that chick? Most men aren't noble, we just want sex.

And even if all you say was true, you kinda just lay back and accept the world, why not fucking right this inequity, don't just feed into it!

At least that's something we can both agree on. A lot of people on the sub complain about their situation, instead of making the best out of it.

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Red pill is a super toxic environment which brings about truly disgusting people who hate women, are super fucking racist, have absolutely no morals and are willing to manipulate people and abuse them.

LOL, nice caricature. Do a bit more research before generalizing so terribly.

"But RPers generalize all of the time." Yes, when it gets us laid.

There is also a huge psuedo science side to red pill, you guys espouse science and rationalism and evolutionary psychology, but hate actual psychology and sociology.

Science fuels TRP. Sure, there's some biased throughput, but it works, so why the hell should I care?

If you honestly believe that "big pharma" is out to get you, then you are no better than a fucking Scientologist.

No one thinks that. There's no conspiracy. Only phenomena are observed. Otherwise, link for proof, and I may change my mind.

I swear, some of you have never talked to a woman who you didn't have an interest in fucking or something.

Sure we have. I know a few attractive ones who aren't shit to talk to. Once again, drop the caricature.

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Except that casting women collectively in a negative light by pointing out general shortcomings is usually met with denial, vitriol, opposition, even character assassination - all while the same is perfectly acceptable, even politically correct, when it goes against men.

How bluepillers completely refuse to connect the dots and deny that this basically amounts to de facto adhering to the idea that women are better people, and the hamstering they do to weasel around that conclusion, is always classic.

Feminism - the radical notion that women are better people. But we're all equal! The Schroedinger's Cat of gender issues - women and men are simultaneously equal and not equal until it has been clarified what we're talking about. Women doing better? Of course they are! Men doing better? Women are just held down by the patriarchy! Thesis - antithesis - synthesis. That's basically fusing Marxist dialectics and quantum physics, and it also looks like that.

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I can't find Flynns data directly, because apparently it was published in a book, not an article, but the psychology study gave some of his data, which I will quote below. So it's data, not just observations:

Flynn looked at IQ scores from ages 14-18 and found 5 modern states where he could get standardization samples with at least 500 people of each gender. The states he looked at were Australia, New Zealand, White South Africa, Estonia, and Argentina. It was important that he used standardization samples, because that means that the IQ researchers made an effort to get as representative a sample as possible.

Analyzing those 5 datasets and throwing away all of the older studies from the prior generation (prior to 1982), he compared men and women on the Raven's Progressive Matrices test, a test of abstract, logical reasoning. Setting the male score at 100, Flynn found that women scored the lowest in Australia (99.5), but in the other 4 nations Raven's scores varied from 100.5 to 101.5. After presenting this data, he noted:

"So they certainly equaled men, and perhaps were slightly above. This has been distorted in the news of my saying that women are incredibly more intelligent than men. As you can see, this somewhat goes beyond what was claimed."

[–]RojoEscarlata1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

This is a different take on that info:

The male variance in I.Q. is greater than that for females; Jensen says this difference is greatest in math and spatial ability. In math the male variance is 1.1 to 1.3 times greater. He concludes from this and from various other facts that the cause of the greater male variance in I.Q. lies mainly or entirely in non-g factors rather than ing.

In the high range, my own observation to date is that at or above the 98th percentile there are about twice more males than females, while at or above the 99.9th percentile there are about 15 times more males. These estimates are based on the male/female ratios in certain high I.Q. societies and on analysis of male and female performance on my tests. Trying to make this fit in terms of standard deviation, I find that when the male and female mean are both I.Q. 100, the male standard deviation must be about 33% greater than the female standard deviation. However, if a mean difference of 5 points in favour of males existed, the male standard deviation would only need to be about 11% greater. I do not know which is true (or if the truth lies in between). I must say though that a difference of 33% seems unlikely.

http://paulcooijmans.com/intelligence/sex_differences.html

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That's a little silly.

If a woman can do a man's job better than the man, we would encourage the anyone in the world to replace the man with the women.

Please tell me how that is silly?

Do you expect women to like that?

I think if you censored us, the forum would lose its appeal too. Plus, there are some feminist out there that write about how all men should be castrated and say men are pigs. For some reason it is more socially acceptable for women to say that in college classes too (one girl said both things in one of my classes, and no one gave two shits). If I would have said the opposite about that, I bet you it would not have played out very well for me. Were not telling anyone to hurt women in any way.

False. There have been many comments about women being intellectually inferior. Like ALL women. I myself have even been told I didn't earn my degree or my license, it as handed to me because I'm a woman. That's the most ridiculous bs I've ever heard.

Did the community meet up and decided to tell you as a collective that you didn't earn your degree?

[–]sublimemongrel3 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]EntitledShitHead1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It's a little silly to say that TRP helps women more than feminism. Remember there's a lot to TRP. Do you think the PUA aspect helps women? Do you think the aspect that touts that the best women should all be super feminine and obedient to their powerful alpha men helps women? Do you think the "push past the LMR" crowd helps women? More than feminism? Really?

There's a red pill women forum on here too! It instructs women on how to not get pumped and dumped, or manipulated in relationships. It also talks about the importance of staying in shape and eating healthy. I don't think those are terrible things. I was actually chatting with a 29 year old chick from that forum last week, and it was really interesting to hear her perspective.

On the other hand, what does 4th wave feminism do to help women? They literally tumbler about the patriarchy all day and complain about how all men are pigs.

I think TRP wins this round.

Maybe not directly but it's incredibly naive to act like there aren't men on TRP who apply TRP (or promote applying TRP) in a way that is bad for women.

Please help me understand how that's possible? I just don't think that's possible.

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[–]sublimemongrel3 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

There's a red pill women forum on here too! It instructs women on how to not get pumped and dumped, or manipulated in relationships. It also talks about the importance of staying in shape and eating healthy. I don't think those are terrible things. I was actually chatting with a 29 year old chick from that forum last week, and it was really interesting to hear her perspective.

RPW actively say they do not want the typical TRPer. They may believe in traditional gender roles, the captain/FM dynamic, and they may be against feminism, but at least those I've talked with absolutely do not want the typical twerp.

On the other hand, what does 4th wave feminism do to help women? They literally tumbler about the patriarchy all day and complain about how all men are pigs.

I don't particularly know what "4th wave" feminism refers to. I'm not a scholar of feminism. I would think complaining on tumblr wouldn't be a great way to accomplish much of anything, but "feminism" as a whole has absolutely helped women in many ways. How do you think we got the right to vote? I mean correct me if I'm wrong, like I said, I'm no feminist scholar.

Please help me understand how that's possible? I just don't think that's possible.

I mean I listed several examples in my earlier comment on why certain aspects of TRP are exaggerated and applied in a way that many women and bloops for that matter find harmful.

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[–]EntitledShitHeadRed Pill Stud[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

And she's well aware that I don't hate women. And that all of my red pill experiences really come down to how much I deeply love women. And want to find a truly quality one who believes in my vision. Lol she straight up tried to cheat on her husband with me.

I am honestly at the gym at 6am everyday. Why? Because I want to look good for her. I don't hate women at all. I cherish them. I don't think I have every met a TRPer that genuinely hated women. IF he did, he wouldn't be on that site.

Honestly I'm much happier with women going blue pill. I don't really like girls to know all the tricks of the game. Simply because they have less fun when they are with me. And I love watching a woman laugh at all my dumb tricks.

I don't think it really makes a difference -- its all about the execution. Donald Trump wrote one of the best books on negotiations many years ago, and people still can't stop him.

[–]OfSpock7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]EntitledShitHeadRed Pill Stud[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Can you honestly not see the hatred and resentment that drips from that sub?

Can you please help me understand what you mean by that?

TRP shows young men the good and bad about women's nature. (E.g., even if you're Elon Musk, you're wife could still lose attraction for you and leave you). Instead of complaining about it like Men's Right Activist and feminist, we try to do the best make sure that that doesn't happen. How? We encourage guys to always dress well, read a lot of books, be interesting and social, and confident. That is essentially the biggest tenet of TRP.

There are hatred posts, but they usually don't get upvoted or many views. However, I think those hatred posts are a necessary evil for TRP to draw in new people. Most guys find TRP after a break-up or after being cheated on. This is a healthy outlet for them to vent all their frustration, while encouraging them to better themselves.

[–]sociallydeclined 3 points3 points3 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Encouraging men to be interesting, confident, and attractive is only a small portion of TRP. That portion of encouraging men to be a better version of themselves also wasn't made up by TRP. Any man who doesn't see that being a smarter, stronger, and more attractive person will make them more marketable to women needs a reality check.

Adding onto that, if you really look at the posts by TRP, it really does parallel MRA and central on painting women as the enemy. I'm not even cherry picking. These are half of the posts on the top of all time page:

Getting ready to black-knight a high school girl
FR - My story - She is not who you think she is, 15 years to find this out (the hard way)
I was asked to train a new female employee to do the promotion I got passed on.
You Got a Stranger Pregnant: A Guide.
Woman marries millionaire husband after he insists on prenup, she cheats on him, gets divorced, gets the judge to throw out the prenup.
Woman drops boyfriend because he lives frugally. Later finds out that he's a heir to a fortune based on oil.

[–]EntitledShitHeadRed Pill Stud[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Encouraging men to be interesting, confident, and attractive is only a small portion of TRP.

Have you read the sidebar?

Any man who doesn't see that being a smarter, stronger, and more attractive person will make them more marketable to women needs a reality check.

Not really. In school and through television shows, were told that women should love men for being themselves, and not for "superficial attributes" like looks, intelligence, or status.

Adding onto that, if you really look at the posts by TRP, it really does parallel MRA and central on painting women as the enemy. I'm not even cherry picking. These are half of the posts on the top of all time page:

yeah, that's your perception or projection, and its wrong. If you understand the structure of TRP, you know that its set up in a way to teach us the actual nature of women. For a lot of people its not common sense that if a girl loses attraction for you, she'll dump you or cheat on you (even if you are going through a tough time in your life). A lot of people think that "love" is unconditional because that's what society tells us. Those posts tell us the truth and have many examples. A lot of those stories are also about hypergamy. Do you think if you are broke, unattractive and a loser, and someone that's the opposite of you hits on your girlfriend, she won't leave you in a heartbeat? A lot of those stories are hard to digest---they talk about infidelity or going through a terrible divorce. Those are just stories to teach us to not play with fire, or marrying a gold-digger.

[–]sociallydeclined 4 points4 points4 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I would agree that society teaches men to just be themselves in the beginning. I'm not denying that. At some point though, it becomes an excuse to stay immature and naive about the reality of having to change oneself.

It's not my perception or projection. It's a fact that many of the posts on TRP are blatantly sexist and to deny that is utterly blind. There are always going to be women who will cheat, lie, manipulate just like there are men who do the same. Nonetheless the message behind TRP is that AWALT in that they are all gold-digging, whorey children except for the "unicorns." Submerging yourself in a toxic community that puts women on a pedestal and steps on them at the same time is not going to help you with women.

Male empowerment and male rights are important. It is also important to understand the real nature of relationships and how to handle them in a healthy way. TRP doesn't do this in the right way. I'm kind of done with this topic as I'm sure you're comfortable with the state you're at.

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[–]powerkickPoly, Bi, Blue, Betafag6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

[–]EntitledShitHeadRed Pill Stud[S] 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I'm a pretty high status guy myself (6 feet, rich, moderately jacked, and low BF), and I can't recall the last time I verbally asked for consent in my life.

If you ask a girl if she wants to go on a date vs. telling her to come on a date with you theres a sort of confidence that women like and the subtext behind it is that its not a big deal at all, and you're used to going on a lot of dates anyway and you're a hot commodity (which is why you assumed she wanted to go), but if she doesn't want to go, she'll say no, or you can tell by her body language that she's not interested in going, so you can take that as a hint. In a similar style, if you're making out with a girl, and you start escalating and she's happy and looks like she wants to move forward, is it really necessary to stop and ask her if she want to consent? I mean, you could if you're not 100% sure if she is interested, but if she is, why would you want to do that? It sort of kills the mood.

[–]powerkickPoly, Bi, Blue, Betafag3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

That's great, what about the 100,000 angry phasers who are looking for the most efficient way to "get sex?"

I mean whenever things get down to it RP, the EC's, the smug-phasers, and other RP defenders (like the ones who "don't read redpill") are always asking "where will the low status men go for advice on sexual strategy?" and that's where I'm coming from here.

If you've managed to be responsible about consent verbal or no, great.

I'm just seeing way too much presumption about a group of people RPers believe they literally cannot befriend or communicate with rationally. A group of people they believe have never innovated for humanity.

It's this idea where a no cannot be a no if it's said in a certain tone of voice, yet a lot of these guys are awful at social cues and just assume she's fucking around. They've constructed the notion of the shit test specifically to justify the placement of socialsexual pressure until successful coercion.

Then there's the idea where they want the right to rape their wives because marriage=constant consent in their eyes.

[–]EntitledShitHeadRed Pill Stud[S] 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

That's great, what about the 100,000 angry phasers who are looking for the most efficient way to "get sex?"

Their anger is justifiable. Society tells them that in order to have sex with a girl, they must buy her expensive things and treat her like a queen, and never piss her off. You do that, and she likes you as a friend, but won't have sex with you. All this occurs while Chad Thundercock calls her up and says she can come over to his place and suck his dick, and she obliges. When Anger phasers come to that conclusion they experience a lot of hate, and they don't know who to project it on.

I mean whenever things get down to it RP, the EC's, the smug-phasers, and other RP defenders (like the ones who "don't read redpill") are always asking "where will the low status men go for advice on sexual strategy?" and that's where I'm coming from here.

Guys here are anything but low status. I would call them uninformed about how the world works. But, I get where you are coming from and I agree with you.

They've constructed the notion of the shit test specifically to justify the placement of socialsexual pressure until successful coercion.

Shit test are very real. If I go out to a club, and I approach a girl ask her to dance with me, and she is noticeable "higher SMV", I'll usually get a "Buy me a drink first" response. If I respond something witty, she'll come out and dance with me, and forget about the drink. If I give one of the "beta" responses, she'll usually get the upper hand in the conversation and imply that I'm a cheap bastard. Its a paradigm I've noticed.

Then there's the idea where they want the right to rape their wives because marriage=constant consent in their eyes.

We want to be in marriages where women want to willingly fuck us as often as possible. No one praises rape. I haven't visited Roosh's site, but TRP is pretty adverse to that. One of the worst feelings in the world is oneitis. If your own wife doesn't want to fuck you, it really kills your self-esteem.

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[–]Entropy-7Old Goat4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Because TRP says to a bunch of men who can't take social cues "Infer consent when she says no."

It does tell guys to ignore what a woman says and pay attention to how she acts. I don't recall any doctrinaire RP advice saying to ignore a woman's direct "no" as you are making a physical advance. There are some PUAs who will tell you to blow past that but I have not seen that on TRP. The more common advice is to back off, pause, and then try again.

And then they're outraged and surprised when charges wind up being pressed and then call that misandry.

The surprise comes when the girls does not say much of anything, then let's her friends convince her she was raped because she decides afterwards that she didn't like it.

Meanwhile I don't know any men facing time.

Neither do I and neither do most guys on TRP, and probably all on TRP in the circumstances you are describing.

You know why? Because they don't believe in shit like LMR.

LMR and ASD is very real and if you don't know how to deal with it you a) don't get laid or b) risk getting charged with sexual assault.

They don't worship Roosh. They think for themselves

Even Roosh himself has said "If you agree with me 100% then there is something wrong."

rather than letting Redpillschool's curia think for them then calling themselves high value men.

TRP provides men with a few foundational truths and then a tool box but mostly leaves it up to the men themselves to figure out what they want in life.

As for being high value, in some cases it is warranted in other cases not so much so, just like with any other group of people.

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[–]lesslucid1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So since you are a mind reader

It's precisely because nobody is a mind reader that the best way of judging what another person wants or doesn't want is to listen to what they say. Deciding that you believe that actually "you know better, she's probably just being coy" is the kind of thinking that leads to rape or something which is legally-speaking-not-quite-rape but still incredibly harmful.

fanciful and unsupported opinion

On the contrary, there are reams of statistics and stories from rape survivors about men who believe they did nothing wrong because "she only said 'no' the first four times I tried to push myself on her". It's your claim that "90% of women say no when they really mean yes" which is fanciful and unsupported.

So you never, ever bring up the topic of sex again. . .ever?

That's right. Is it really so astonishing? If someone tells me they don't like Thai food or horror movies, how many more times am I going to try to get them to change their mind? If a person says they're not interested in anything else that doesn't have to do with sex, I believe them. Why would I be any less inclined to believe someone knows their own mind when it comes to sex? Besides which, the alternative is to be pushy, creepy, needy, manipulative, and (very likely) make another person deeply uncomfortable, all for the sake of... what? The slender chance of having sex with someone who's not really into it? I mean, the combination of being morally wrong and kind of stupid aside, the reward is something I can't imagine even wanting.

[–]Entropy-71 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]lesslucid2 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't know if I should respond to this (at least until I stop laughing) or just let other TRP members savage you and that notion.

If the other TRPers argue with as much insight and intelligence as you do, I can't say I'm too worried about the kind of "savaging" I might receive. People do sometimes say things that are different to what they really mean or really want, and it would be naiive to think no-one ever lies or self-deceives about such things. However, taking someone at their word when they say they don't want sex is still the best way of judging what they want, because the worst consequences of doing so are unimportant, and the worst consequences of not doing so are so awful.

non-fiction.

Either you're obtusely insisting on a dictionary definition which, you'll find if you check an actual dictionary, is accompanied by several others which do not support your assumption, or you're claiming that every single woman who has ever told the story of what her rapist did to her was lying. In either case, you're choosing to ignore an incredibly awful reality in favour of an argument with all the weight and substance of tissue paper. Motivated reasoning is a powerful thing.

A day, a week a month later?

Of course. Why would anyone be keen to be pestered for sex on a monthly basis, any more than they would want to be pestered for sex several times in an evening? Less awful, I suppose, for being less intense, but still awful. If you've somehow become dramatially more sexually appealing to her since last month, she will remember perfectly well that you were interested then, and can bring up the topic of her own volition. Since that's a) pretty unlikely and b) something for her to decide, in the meantime you should leave the subject alone, since at best asking again makes you a nuisance, and very likely something worse than that.

[–]Entropy-71 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TriggeredByIdiotsRP Environmentalist - Nut in a slut3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Nitz93Blue Pill Man4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (32 children) | Copy Link

[–]OncleJulian 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

Why do blue pillers keep claiming that casual sex is emtpy and meaningless? There's physical pleasure in it and the validation that comes from being selected by a woman who isn't breaking the floor due to her weight. How can pleasure and validation ever be without meaning?

It only has meaning if I'm putting up with someone and deal with their problems and needs?

The red pill has the best interests of young men in mind. The red pill wants young men to get laid. To experience the joys of casual sex and FWBs. TRP teaches that all that women care about is looks. Which is true. The vast majority of the men who get rejected or dumped are the men who aren't attractive enough to make a woman put her panties down or to stay loyal to him.

Now, my idea of trp is different from the others. They believe any man can become Alpha, or at least most men can. Alphas are men who are born with the genetic potential to be vastly more sexually attractive than all the others. If for some reason the guy is fat, then I advice him to lift and to pursue women.

If there's nothing wrong with him and he's decent-looking but doesn't Alpha looks I advice him to give up on women. Because he's destined to a lifetime of having to lower his expectations and sleep with fat women, as the women who are in his league can bang alphas.

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[–]Domo90 2 points2 points2 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Why do blue pillers keep claiming that casual sex is emtpy and meaningless?

It is. I grew up with Nitzi and as he can attest our friend circle was the epitome of pointless casual sex and party life.

You know the 80/20 rule which claims that 20% of all guys have 80% of all sex? We were those 20%. We had it all, we were the kings.

Prom king, band members, DJs, etc.

Nah. We were the top 20% of the top 20%. If a new girl joined the nightlife and took a ride on the CC one of us took her virginity and then she fucked with a few others of us.

But it is pointless as fuck. It's just sex. A good girlfriend you can cuddle with and share feelings with is more fulfilling than a threesome with two hot chicks. Spending a night watching TV with your girlfriend is more fulfilling than taking the virginity of yet another young wannabe slut.

The red pill has the best interests of young men in mind.

By telling them that women can't love and that they will always cheat on you when given the chance?

The red pill wants young men to get laid.

Which is good, but the way TRP teaches it is how I did it at 14. There is a lot of room for improvement and it still seems as if you don't understand women at all.

TRP teaches that all that women care about is looks

Style + Behavior + Personality + Coolness > Looks

But it seems as if TRP has no idea what being cool even means.

Looks matter way less than TRP claims, but you are too afraid of being friendzoned to invest time to get to know them and to make them fall in love with the persona you hold up. Even short and skinny guys can easily get laid every weekend if they spend a few months with us.

[–]sardonis70 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Style + Behavior + Personality + Coolness > Looks

I'd rearrange that based on scenario:

Style + Looks (which kinda go hand in hand anyway) + coolness > Personality when it comes to raw attraction. (in other words raw sexual desire from a woman)

Now, ideally the charming personality comes into play to turn that raw attraction into a long-term thing, if that's what the goal is. For me, that's the ideal. I'd much prefer to partner up with a woman that found me physically arousing and THEN discovered I was an awesome person than the other way around. If she was already attracted to me without my charming personality, She'll just fall head over heals once she gets to know me. I want that level of physical desire before I even bother with the "getting to know her" part of the equation, because no matter how cool she is, if she doesn't viscerally want to jump in my lap, it won't matter one bit.

[–]OfSpock2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]sardonis70 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Settling is for people who can't get what they want.

Overall I think everyone has to settle on something with a partner. No one is perfect. However, everyone gets to decide what they "settle" on, and in my mind settling on the sex part of the relationship is a non-starter. The issue is: I can't really choose what the woman I'm partnering up with "settles" on with me, so if the sexual part of the relationships is primary for me, it seems I should be looking for high comparability on that front which should mean that woman is LESS likely to be settling on my arousal attributes.

Put another way: I won't partner up with a woman if I don't pass her "hot enough to bang" threshold from the gate WITHOUT her getting to know me. NOT to say I'm looking for a woman with a lot of ONS/FWB in her past, but that I don't want to have to "make up" for my lack of raw appeal to her with my charming personality. I prefer that be an added bonus, because it actually makes being a great guy MORE valuable, at least to her since she's already very attracted.

[–]OfSpock0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]sardonis70 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm assuming that you are saying " won't partner up with a woman if I don't pass her "hot enough to bang" threshold from the gate WITHOUT her getting to know me." and meaning, "will have sex with me straight away."

Yeah, I suspected that was your PoV, which in my case couldn't be further from the truth. To be sure, I'm filtering out the vast majority of women with this metric, but here's how it plays out for me: My prospective mate needs to have a decent sex drive naturally. She'll also need to have some visceral reaction to me on a physical level, which is where the "hot enough to bang" comes into play. However, she will ALSO need to have a fairly low N and/or low promiscuous past. Which is to say, My ideal is a high drive low N woman that is VERY selective with her partner choices, and tends to make good choices sticking with them for longer times than a few months a piece. So you are correct, I'm filtering out a LOT of woman right off the bat, because I want one that is high drive, self-aware, AND very selective. Of course in practice it isn't so cut/dry neat and tidy. Most such women have a ONS or FWB in her past, but at my age as long as it is the distant past, its not a concern for me.

TL;DR - I'd immediately disqualify a woman that would sleep with me on the first date. However, she should be REALLY resisting the urge. ;-)

[–]OncleJulian 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[quote]It is. I grew up with Nitzi and as he can attest our friend circle was the epitome of pointless casual sex and party life. You know the 80/20 rule which claims that 20% of all guys have 80% of all sex? We were those 20%. We had it all, we were the kings. Prom king, band members, DJs, etc. [/quote]

You were living the Dream, man. That is all I have ever wanted. To have that lifestyle of King of the Night, the soaring eagle of nightlife, to never look down and see the ground for I would be so high in the clouds of everlasting beauty that nothing could ever get me to let go of immortality.

I have always looked up to guys like you with envy and deep admiration, for you are better than all of the rest of us.

[quote]Nah. We were the top 20% of the top 20%. If a new girl joined the nightlife and took a ride on the CC one of us took her virginity and then she fucked with a few others of us.[/quote]

And yet, most guys have to go out on dates with girls, spend time and money and effort on girls who aren't anything special to look at and have put out instantly and freely for Alpha males such like yourself, Master.

[quote]But it is pointless as fuck. It's just sex. A good girlfriend you can cuddle with and share feelings with is more fulfilling than a threesome with two hot chicks. Spending a night watching TV with your girlfriend is more fulfilling than taking the virginity of yet another young wannabe slut.[/quote]

I dislike relationships quite a bit. I've been in a few and the constant worry of being cheated on or dumped as soon as an Alpha appears is troublesome. I also don't enjoy constant contact and girlfriends want to at least talk every couple of days. I like to disappear into my world for weeks, months and to not talk to anyone. My friends I grew up with them and they know how am I.

What girl is going to stick around when your non-Alpha boyfriend doesn't say a word for 2 weeks at least? lol.

Sex is not just sex. The people who say sex is just sex are women and the Alphas who can get sex like I can get a glass of water. Sex is the ultimate validation that you have worth as a man. Women don't need women anymore. They can make their own money, so if a man doesn't have Alpha looks he's useless to women. He has no value.

[quote]By telling them that women can't love and that they will always cheat on you when given the chance?[/quote]

If the woman meets an Alpha, yes she will cheat on him unless he's an Alpha himself and even so girls grow bored of their boyfriends and cheat all the time.

[quote]Which is good, but the way TRP teaches it is how I did it at 14. There is a lot of room for improvement and it still seems as if you don't understand women at all.[/quote]

Sure, I understand women. I am not Alpha nor do I have the genetic potential to be Alpha. If I was suffering an heart attack in front of women they wouldn't even deign to remove their eyes from their cellphones to notice.

[quote]Style + Behavior + Personality + Coolness > Looks [/quote]

Its great of you to be saying that to us, the lesser men, but that sort of thing won't get me one night stands in nightclubs or parties.

[quote]Looks matter way less than TRP claims, but you are too afraid of being friendzoned to invest time to get to know them and to make them fall in love with the persona you hold up. Even short and skinny guys can easily get laid every weekend if they spend a few months with us.[/quote]

Bro, you are in the top 20% of looks. What you're saying is similar to me going up to brad pitt to ask advice on how to get girls and as a response he tells me confidence, lol. Sure, he got Angelina Jolie with his confidence and his ultra Apex Alpha male looks.

I am not afraid of being friendzoned, I just don't really enjoy going through all the motions of getting to know women only to see some dude go up to them and get all he wants because looks> all.

Haha, yeah, Alpha males can get beta males laid, but the women who sleep with the betas are not sexually attracted to them. They have sex with the beta because they wan to please the beta's Alpha friends.

ok, I have no idea how the quotes thing work :D

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lilchaoticneutralZeta Male/TrillPill0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JustDIMS 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]OncleJulian 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]EntitledShitHeadRed Pill Stud[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]OncleJulian 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]EntitledShitHeadRed Pill Stud[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]OncleJulian 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JustDIMS 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]OncleJulian 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]JustDIMS 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BiggerDthanYouBluetopia2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EntitledShitHeadRed Pill Stud[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Bein realistic (I've skyped with a few people here and I've met a few TRPers IRL) most of the guys here aren't low status guys. They're really smart, attractive, and have great personalities. However, for some reason they weren't good with women. Perhaps because they never learned how to talk to women the way women like to be talked to in or just didn't have a good role mode. When those guys who get nervous just thinking about holding a girls hands hear that they'll be able to have threesomes on the weekly, they'll actually act on TRP advice (lifting and becoming more social). No one joins an organization that draws people in with going to sleep early and excercising everyday. However, most of the EC constantly state that if you're not happy with your life now, adding women to the equation won't change that.

[–]TriggeredByIdiotsRP Environmentalist - Nut in a slut0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BillClam 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]heredpill1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]JBrogrammer0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]heredpill0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn't read the whole post (I limit my time on the internet so I can do other things- former reddit addict here) but I think I got the main point and in a way, I agree with him.

It is a bit creepy when anyone tries overly hard to attract someone. It does feel manipulative. Throughout my life, I've believed this: A person should just try to be the very best version of themselves. NOT try to create the illusion of being this better person when they're around someone they want to impress, but actually work toward BEING that person. And then, the people who are attracted to you will be attracted to you, and the ones who aren't, won't be, and that's fine. Why would you want to work so damn hard just to get the attention of someone who doesn't get how cool you are? It just sounds like an uphill battle, like you could never relax, like you would constantly be fighting to prove that you're good enough for someone who doesn't quite believe that you are good enough for them. Sounds miserable to me. I'd rather let things develop naturally.

Now, reading in the manosphere has actually shifted my view...a little bit. I still believe what I stated above on a fundamental level, but now I'm more aware of men's issues, in particular that the dating world is very different for men and women. I assumed that men were barraged with the same (often unwanted) attention that I was every day. I assumed that, like me, most men of an average attractiveness level had several women showing interest in them at the same time and they just had to select from among them. I simply assumed that things were the same for men as they were for me, because how was I to understand it was different. Now I see that I was making my assumptions from my relatively privileged station as a young woman in the dating market. I have a lot more empathy for men. So in a way reading the manosphere has changed me for the better- I try to be kinder because I now understand men are fighting a hard battle out there.

That said... What I said above still holds true--- I think that if men simply tried to be the best version of themselves, they would attract a woman and wouldn't have to work so hard to keep her. And wouldn't have to manipulate her. Trust, to me, is still the best foundation of relationships, and once that trust is broken, the relationship is fucked.

When I found out my ex was using PUA stuff on me, my trust was broken and it never came back.

[–]MissPearlEditor of frequent typos.1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Hate is such a strong word.

If you are asking my emotional feeling on the subject matter, and you want negativity, any group that endorses the idea that I should be treated as perpetually childlike contains more then it's fair share of asshats, but you're a reactionary offshoot of a mainstream that's pushed you out of the dialogue about sexuality and gender relations- so you don't fit my threshold of feeling you impose on me in any way, shape or form.

Sometimes you say things that are unintentionally funny, for me my participation in subs like TBP is a lot closer to rubbernecking that rabblerousing. For example watching the RPW turf war play out was 100% pure popcorn munching goodness.

All that aside, I have a personal preference to spare the wrath- snark is one thing (and can be funny!), but there's a good faith agreement that if you're going to indulge my curiosity I'm not going to try to bully you.

[–]EntitledShitHeadRed Pill Stud[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MissPearlEditor of frequent typos.0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]wynterpetalsBlue Pill XX0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]sunkindonut149Blue Pill Mouse0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PollaTronante0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points 10 years ago | Copy Link

[–]LoreSoongSoong-Type Android0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]EntitledShitHeadRed Pill Stud[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, you generalize half of the human population to the point that women are just overgrown teenagers who are incabable of love.

Wrong. The Red Pill attracts guys that grew up in the western culture believing that women will love you unconditionally, despite how much of a loser you are. The red pill tells you that you really have to work hard and work on your relationship for her not to leave you. That's what it advocates.

You accuse women for having too high standarts in todays society yet you hate the idea of dating any woman who isn't at least a HB7. You

Yeah, we do, its a sub on sexual strategy, and for men to leverage their resources to get the best girl they can get. What's wrong with that?

You say women are sluts for having more than 3 boyfriends before being 25 while you're spinning your 4 plates at 19.

The more sexual partners a women has, the less emotions and love she becomes capable of experiencing. The same isn't biologically true for men.

To make it short: I don't like you because you are fucking hypocrites.

We are hypocrites, we want to bang as many chicks as we can and just kill it in life, and marry a nice girl with a low partner count.

[–]LoreSoongSoong-Type Android0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Wrong. The Red Pill attracts guys that grew up in the western culture believing that women will love you unconditionally, despite how much of a loser you are. The red pill tells you that you really have to work hard and work on your relationship for her not to leave you. That's what it advocates.

First, define "looser". Do you mean just somebody who isn't conventionally handsome or somebody who doesn't have a job and still lives with his parents at 35?

Yeah, we do, its a sub on sexual strategy, and for men to leverage their resources to get the best girl they can get. What's wrong with that?

Nothing, but can you then please stop complaining that women's standarts are way too high, that they are ignoring 80% of all men and are therefore evil, egoistic and shallow when you are doing exactly the same to all non-HB women?

The more sexual partners a women has, the less emotions and love she becomes capable of experiencing. The same isn't biologically true for men.

Sorry to disappoint you, but that just is so wrong it's almost funny. "Love" as we know it is a chemical reaction in the brain and has absolutely nothing to do with the number of your sexual partners whatsoever. Just look here.

We are hypocrites, we want to bang as many chicks as we can and just kill it in life, and marry a nice girl with a low partner count.

If there weren't any terpers here I would think you're a troll, but since their behaviour is almost identical I can't say for sure.

[–]EntitledShitHeadRed Pill Stud[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

First, define "looser". Do you mean just somebody who isn't conventionally handsome or somebody who doesn't have a job and still lives with his parents at 35?

Not having looks doesn't make you a loser. Its people who don't take actions to improve themselves that I would call losers, SO perhaps your second example is more correct.

Nothing, but can you then please stop complaining that women's standarts are way too high, that they are ignoring 80% of all men and are therefore evil, egoistic and shallow when you are doing exactly the same to all non-HB women?

We actually say the opposite. CWM recently wrote an article about how men are actually their own toughest critiques. In the article he talked about how a lot of men think that women only want to date tall, tan, muscular guys, but that's not true. In the post he argued that women don't carry around a tape measure to see how tall you are, in fact, most girls genuinely believe that their 5'10 boyfriends are "giants", which isn't too crazy because the average height for women is ~5'4". He then goes on to say that most women assume you're alpha (or high status) until proven otherwise.

Further, we never say that women ignore 80% of guys, we just say that women only have sex with 20% of guys. A lot of those guys that aren't in the 20%, are not necessarily low status. I know a few muscular, attractive, rich guys at my school that could be having sex everyday, but aren't. Those guys are by no means low status.

Sorry to disappoint you, but that just is so wrong it's almost funny. "Love" as we know it is a chemical reaction in the brain and has absolutely nothing to do with the number of your sexual partners whatsoever. Just look here.

The more sexual partners you have, the less effective pair bondings become for future relationships.

If there weren't any terpers here I would think you're a troll, but since their behaviour is almost identical I can't say for sure.

Now thats just rude!

[–]NewbornCentipede1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Title	Why do blue-pillers hate TRP?
Author	EntitledShitHead
Upvotes	2
Comments	280
Date	April 24, 2016 6:41 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/4g9dl4/why_do_bluepillers_hate_trp/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-do-blue-pillers-hate-trp.274974 https://theredarchive.com/post/274974

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