~ archived since 2018 ~

Why is it that the men here who fail think they are the most enlightened?

drok007

November 5, 2023

20 upvotes

It seems like it is the men who cannot get laid or get a relationship that think they are the most knowledgeable about women. This is a bizarre blue pillism where they believe those on the bottom should have superiority similar to how those who are the most oppressed are considered the most moral. This seems obviously backwards from reality anyway, where the men who fail, fail precisely because they don’t understand women or how the world works.

They tend to perform another blue pillism in needing sources and studies to justify their beliefs. However the studies are less relevant as to why individuals succeed to or do not succeed than anecdata, which often highlights the multivariate nature of human interaction.

Most people would not trust a salesman who cannot make sales to be correct about how to sell. When pressed on the issue, if the poor performing salesman provided economic data to explain why he is bad at sales, it would continue to look dumb as it still doesn’t explain why he never made a sale (while he continues to state that he knows everything about sales of course).

So why would we trust the poor performing salesman on why he is correct about sales? Similarly why would we believe the men who can’t get women on what it takes to get women, especially when their reasoning flies in the face of what is seen as correct by most, especially the ones who are successful? It seems the ones who fail are the ones who aren’t aware and/or coping.

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Post Information

Title	Why is it that the men here who fail think they are the most enlightened?
Author	drok007
Upvotes	20
Comments	120
Date	November 5, 2023 12:10 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/17oaibr/why_is_it_that_the_men_here_who_fail_think_they/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-is-it-that-the-men-here-who-fail-think-they.1237440 https://theredarchive.com/post/1237440

Comments

[–]wtknightBlue-ish Gen X Slacker - Man[M] [score hidden] 2 years ago stickied comment (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]RonMexico432No Pill 8 points9 points10 points 2 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]RonMexico432No Pill 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]bottleblankMan, AutoModerator really sucks, huh? 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, what changed in the past 15 years?

A massive explosion in feminism in the zeitgeist. A huge shift in tone from "men are stupid and sex-obsessed but only mildly offensive and largely harmless" to "men are violent and sex-obsessed and women are terrified and vulnerable". Greater pressure on people and institutions to "do something about it". Greater (almost exclusive) focus on what women want and how the world affects women and what everybody else needs to do to be aware of and fix that, without question or regard for consequence.

I still remember the massive "wtf?" moment that was tech/gaming sites seemingly out of nowhere publishing articles about how male gamers (pretty much their entire core readership) were absolute cuntwads. I don't really consider myself a gamer, I wasn't "involved" in Gamergate in any way and didn't even know it was a thing until that happened. But it was a fine example of shoving it right down people's throats how their demographic were perceived and who really has control of the social dynamic.

Men who were (often, but not necessarily) on the nerdy end of the scale, often with little or no relationship experience, often with poor social experiences and histories of being rejected or ostracised suddenly having their space invaded with what they saw as hatred for them and misuse of their interests and hobbies as some social/political battleground. The thing they tried to find solace in, their special place, the space they retreated to when nobody wanted to let them be social, suddenly poisoned by social politics.

But that's just one particular example. The sentiment in general is far more pervasive and doesn't just stop at the edge of Reddit or outside of a few websites full of geeks and activists constantly at war. It's out there. You know, where the grass is. It's on posters on the walls, it's in the mainstream press, it's potentially in your educational institutions, it's on TV and in movies.

That has an impact on men who have no positive experience of being around women or seeking relationships, they're constantly having their experiences of being treated negatively confirmed to be what society wants them to feel for having an unwanted interest in women. It's formalised bullying and exclusion, effectively. It's the message they received in school about how their peers didn't want them around and found them "creepy" or "annoying", but turned up to 11 and spoken by women, organisations, and authorities with far more serious clout than the class bully. It should be no surprise that they're trying to hide from experiencing those consequences as an adult, because who the hell wants to be punished for anything even remotely related to sexuality, when the implications of that are severe?

[–]BatemaninAccountingHuey Lewis Connoisseur 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]bottleblankMan, AutoModerator really sucks, huh? 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ComfortableJeans 19 points20 points21 points 2 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

[–]PreparationWorried33 6 points7 points8 points 2 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 11 points12 points13 points 2 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Diligent_Bookkeeper7 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I’m in that category. I’m currently in my late 30s and have been with my wife for ten years.

When I was young I was told, repeatedly, by people of different genders, specialities, ages, and races, I was very handsome/above average in looks. As a former fat kid, I didn’t believe them/hyper focused on the weight. My insecurity and utter lack of social skills is cringeworthy, and my wife has mentioned she thinks I might be on the autistic spectrum.

I had zero luck with women. I had plenty if means and opportunity: I went to university and lived on campus. My luck turned around when a girl saw me and asked a mutual friend to set up a hook-up with me. In short, she became my first girlfriend.

I built off the experience and was rarely single afterwards.

BUT, I’ve come to realize my looks, ultimately, greased the wheels. I highly suspect if I was ordinary, I’d be one of those bitter guys, although I have other flaws I could blame. Many of them don’t. Many are just boring.

[–]bottleblankMan, AutoModerator really sucks, huh? 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I had zero luck with women. I had plenty if means and opportunity: I went to university and lived on campus. My luck turned around when a girl saw me and asked a mutual friend to set up a hook-up with me. In short, she became my first girlfriend.

This is crucial. Because even in the incel world you can find stories of a bitter, hopeless man being given one chance, seemingly out of nowhere, and it changing their whole worldview.

As somebody who's had a mental block around relationships, or more specifically the hope of ever being loved or wanted in any way, I know that (to me) it looks exactly the same as the mental block I had around employment. I was given the impression, for a very long time, that I would be forever hopeless, I was shit, useless, unwanted, lazy, a burden, a loser, that I could never succeed: I had been categorised by all around me as a waste of time and space, deserving of spite and bitterness. Which I believed because my self-esteem and confidence had been razed to the ground, ransacked and salted, and that was my experience. A self-perpetuating loop of having zero energy or expectation that any amount of hope or effort could possibly save me.

But I kept trying on my own level, setting my own stakes, I kept going to college and I eventually got a degree. Because I wasn't likely to get rejected from a public educational facility that I was paying to be in, or rather that was a lot less likely than being rejected by somebody who would have to pay me. I knew that I was capable of achieving that academic success, proof that I wasn't a lazy clueless piece of shit, and that the risk was purely mine. If I failed then I would only be letting myself down. The college doesn't give a shit if I pass or not, people fail all the time, that's just how it is, and they don't care as long as they get paid for that student's attendance.

But from that came an opportunity via a contact I'd made in those classes, and now I don't believe I'm a useless sack of shit any more, because somebody finally made a bet that I wouldn't let them down and that I could be a useful asset. It wasn't the college or the degree which gave me that confidence. Because - again - I perceived that I was doing them a favour by being there, they weren't having to take a chance on me. It was the guy who said "hey, I'm working at this place now, I know you're capable, I'm willing to put my name to your application". Somebody actually, finally, put their money where their mouth was. Somebody finally stood behind me and said "yes, you are worthy of success, you are as technically capable as you've been trying to prove you are". So, because I was then hired by that company, my belief that I was unworthy of being paid to work, that I was unworthy of anybody else's resources, was smashed into a million meaningless shards and blown away in the wind.

All of which is to say: That's all it takes, sometimes. For somebody to finally stop saying "you're a useless disgusting waste of space lazy good-for-nothing asshole and I resent your presence in my life" and offer "you are worth this and I'm going to prove it to you".

I haven't experienced that in terms of relationships yet. But all that text above was to illustrate that very same mental block with employment demonstrates and that often what's needed is just that validation, that trust, that support. Just one instance of success to prove it can be done, which can destroy all of those feelings of vulnerability, weakness, insufficiency, ineptitude, incompetence, unworthiness, and perpetual failure.

But, as much as I did put the effort in to keep slogging through education, despite many failures (for non-academic reasons), some portion of that was still luck. Which is the element I can't seem to find as far as friends and relationships are concerned. I believe the right opportunity is out there, somewhere, just as it was with the employment situation. But you have to find it, which is a lot easier said than done when you're faced with a high likelihood of failure and a past history of severe social rejection.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Aafan_BarbarroMan 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Aafan_BarbarroMan 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Diligent_Bookkeeper7 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m burnt out, sick, and tired at this state of life, but I had moments of charisma, normally when assisted by alcohol. I also never lost my childlike and intellectual curiosity. I’m romantic. I’m hyper sexual. I tend to hyper focus on a woman and sex: women (and men, but especially women) love attention. I’m not boring, but I’m too intense for many people. Im also a mediocre person.

I picture a lot of these guys as normal, boring. Nothing exciting. But good guys who would make a good spouse.

I dated a woman who worked in the medical field for a time. She was free use to me (assumed consent) and paid for everything; I was unemployed and living with my parents after s breakup. She told me she would date doctors for the good food (fine dining) and attention, but that was it: and she felt sorry for herself, as if she was pathetic. What was wrong with the doctors? They were boring.

[–]PreparationWorried33 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]bottleblankMan, AutoModerator really sucks, huh? -1 points0 points1 point 2 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

the ones who never succeed that think they are the most correct

OK, so apparently:

Women are correct about what they see because they're the ones being sought
Perpetually successful men are correct about what they see because they're actually successful at seeking them
Previously unsuccessful but now successful men are correct about what they see because they managed to achieve what they previously couldn't
Still unsuccessful men are wrong about what they see because...? People think they're losers who are incapable of perceiving anything about the world correctly?

That looks suspiciously like a judgement cast upon them purely on the strength of their failure. I'm not saying that the conclusions they come to are necessarily correct, but this place is evidence enough (not the sole source of evidence, but a perfectly sufficient example of it) that nobody pays the slightest attention to those men's observations, problems, feelings, or experiences. The specifics of that particular man's situation.

Nobody can/will actually help them because nobody actually understands where they're coming from, often as a result of denial or ignorance and point blank refusal to analyse what that man is saying about his place in the world and what that means to his interactions with it in a practical sense. It's just constant "you're not doing it right"/"you're not seeing it right"/"why would I listen to you when you're shit at this"/"you're wrong because my experience is different" and frequent insults, generalisations, and moral judgements along with that just to make the guy feel even less like he belongs.

Thereby reinforcing his negative views and, in fact, proving him right about biases, aggressions, and discrimination he might observe and be trying to communicate. Which will then be denied or justified by the very same people who are actively doing that to him at the very same time.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well I don’t think women are correct usually. I agree with the saying “I wouldn’t ask a fish how to catch fish, I’d ask a fisherman.” As far as purely successful men, that seems rare and I would I say it’s less useful than the man who has both failed and succeeded.

As far as the men who only fail, I think there is more to it than just considering their point of view. The world exists in a constant state of catallaxy, and there are failing points of view. Everything is part of the system, and nothing is in a vacuum. What I see from these men is that in order for them to succeed, things would have to not be as they are, not have them change until they can work in the system that exists.

This seems unreasonable, they complain about having to perform standard social interactions or lament about being a “dancing monkey”. They often only cite OLD, and expect to be able to manage everything through that. When they talk about what actually happens in reality, it’s also not correct. Even if they struggle, it’s not “only the top 1% of chads getting laid” or whatever they say. I don’t get why struggling would make them qualified to say and believe all this stuff.

[–]bottleblankMan, AutoModerator really sucks, huh? -1 points0 points1 point 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well I don’t think women are correct usually.

They may not be (and, as human beings, they're likely to be wrong at least some of the time, something that isn't acknowledged nearly often enough), but when society has their back on matters of male offensiveness and reassurance that it's understood that they're exposed to constant masculine violence, how is the unsuccessful guy going to perceive that there's any chance he can make mistakes without being punished according to those standards? Especially if he's already familiar with social consequences from having been bullied at school (and, potentially, at home)?

Everything is part of the system, and nothing is in a vacuum.

Right. But that's also the reason those men are in that position in the first place. Because, for whatever reason, they have experienced being cast out, (mis)labelled, treated with disdain, and potentially actively abused.

We accept that women have a right to be angry about how they're treated, when they experience being treated as lesser or receiving abuse. But we never consider the same for the man who experiences the same. His opinion is worthless as long as there's a more vulnerable (read: female) demographic who need to be listened to more. He's seen as the aggressor, the antagonist, the source of that pain and suffering and trauma. Not the victim of his own pain, suffering, or trauma, even though that can be and often is put upon him in the very same way that women often claim theirs is.

This seems unreasonable, they complain about having to perform standard social interactions or lament about being a “dancing monkey”. They often only cite OLD, and expect to be able to manage everything through that. When they talk about what actually happens in reality, it’s also not correct.

They've been forced to seek answers because the real world hasn't provided any except "fuck off nerd, nobody wants you". Unfortunately, when you search for those answers online, you get either a) meaningless platitudes which are only applicable to temporarily unsuccessful people who just need their spirits lifted and their hope reinvigorated or b) places like this with open hostility and behaviours which confirm everybody's worst fears, because nobody wants to "lose" or be "wrong".

Of course they develop hostile attitudes and malformed mechanisms for understanding and dealing with what they see, because who the hell wouldn't, when subjected to constant sentiments of rejection, invalidation, disregard, ridicule, and shame?

[–]ComfortableJeans 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]PreparationWorried33 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alberic2092 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]PreparationWorried33 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alberic2092 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ratsareniceanimalsBlue Pill Man 3 points4 points5 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]bottleblankMan, AutoModerator really sucks, huh? 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think that's rather understating the issue. Quite dismissively, in fact.

Somebody who gets a few random dates here and there, a few sporadic sexual experiences every now and then, they objectively have more success and experience than somebody who has no insight whatsoever into how any of that feels or works.

There's a difference in level of failure. There's "isn't very successful, hasn't found the right one yet" and then there's "hasn't had intimacy ever, potentially over a course of decades".

Yeah, the guy who's "failing" because he hasn't settled down with a wife and kids yet, or hasn't had a long-term relationship but has managed a few short-term ones and some random encounters, he could still be said to be failing, but there's a piece of the spectrum you're completely ignoring, in which any success is very unlikely without some kind of help being given. Some, even, where that won't be enough and they will never be able to achieve intimacy at all.

That's not to say the guy who's struggling but has had something doesn't need help or understanding, he's still failing by the standard of "has what he's looking for", but there's whole other levels of despair and darkness below that.

[–]Realistic-Ad-1023No Pill 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ArkAngelEV 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]No-Rough-7390 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42No pill woman. I post DMs 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Werlinn_It’s over for Pillcels 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42No pill woman. I post DMs 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Aafan_BarbarroMan -3 points-2 points-1 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]bottleblankMan, AutoModerator really sucks, huh? -1 points0 points1 point 2 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Sure, there's something to be said about over-analysing, about anxiety, and so on, those are potentially active detriments (even though they seem - and may actually be - important tools for success, when employed correctly).

But there may also be very good, sensible, legitimate reasons why he's employing those mechanisms, willingly or not, which you're not aware of or can't fully grasp. He's the one who's had the experience of (potentially) being mistreated, ostracised, and reacted to badly when he tries. You may not necessarily have that same experience, or if you have then it may have been for different reasons, or to different extents, or in different scenarios.

I realise that Reddit users are not (typically) psychologists or psychiatrists or relationship coaches and that personal details that particular can't always be discussed or tailored plans for recovery can't be offered, but that's no excuse for going from "just figure it out, like we all did" to "you're a stupid loser who just doesn't get it and isn't trying", completely skipping over "I'm sorry, man, that must really suck, and I don't know how to help you but I hope things get better for you" as an option.

No, instead of that, we get "you're just demanding cheat codes","you clearly hate women", and some bullshit about how we're all demanding free personal government-mandated sex slaves.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]bottleblankMan, AutoModerator really sucks, huh? 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

But:

There are reasons and ways of having been treated before which lead them to those views and attitudes
Not everybody is like that but they get tarred with the same brush regardless, increasing the chance that they'll come to believe that the group in the previous point are correct

If they don't receive any indication that women ever are nice, polite, receptive, understanding, compassionate, empathetic, and so on, if they don't experience any scenario which indicates that they will find somebody who cares or wants to give them a shot, what else are they supposed to believe? It would be delusional to experience a world of hostility but to then believe that actually everything's perfect and the only reason they're not succeeding is that they're the ones who are bad - not because that's impossible, but because people keep bringing the hurt to them, even when they haven't done anything (right or wrong) yet.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]bottleblankMan, AutoModerator really sucks, huh? 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Neutral experiences are moot, that's why there's such talk of "the friendzone". It's irrelevant to the goal of achieving a relationship if everybody says "aw, you'll make a lovely husband/father one day... to somebody who isn't me, because ew, no chance", no matter how much they appear to like you as a friend.

Especially if they never - as some here would suggest is an (or the) appropriate way of using friends to find relationships - introduce you to anybody who might be more receptive to forming that kind of relationship with you.

But that doesn't turn off the desire for sex, intimacy, and relationships. Those things are still there, because we're human beings and most people deeply want those things. But most people get those things, to some degree or another, so aren't thrown into pits of mental anguish and existential crisis by not encountering them at all, ever.

[–]Pola_LitaNo Pill Woman 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]howdoiw0rkthisthingPurple Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DerayRevanRed Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CompleteZombie299 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]-Shes-A-Carnivalbitch im back & my ass got bigger, fuck my ex you can keep dat.. 9 points10 points11 points 2 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]Keeenw 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42No pill woman. I post DMs 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]-Shes-A-Carnivalbitch im back & my ass got bigger, fuck my ex you can keep dat.. 3 points4 points5 points 2 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Keeenw 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]-Shes-A-Carnivalbitch im back & my ass got bigger, fuck my ex you can keep dat.. 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MyLastBestChancePurple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]bottleblankMan, AutoModerator really sucks, huh? 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

The question is why would anyone be upset that dumb women with poor judgment don’t want them🤷‍♀️.

Because that's not necessarily a disqualifying trait to those men and the fact of the matter is that the asshole is still getting something the non-asshole (perceived or real, doesn't matter) isn't.

If you feel you could be a better partner to a naive or damaged woman than that abusive, exploitative douchebag is, yeah, of course you're going to feel maligned, because that paints you as being worse than him. You are a less attractive option than a guy who is wilfully obnoxious or even violently harmful.

Nobody wants to feel like that, especially in a world where there's such focus on how guys need to "be better", because you feel like you're living up to exactly what's being asked for and still you're not enough, so you must just be horrifically broken somehow. So inexplicably unattractive that you must be fatally flawed in some way that you can't see and nobody can explain in a believable or actionable manner. So you get fed a bunch of wild speculation and insulting generalisations which don't make sense contextually and you become hopeless and bitter, because everybody's talking past you or outright lying to your face about how the world really works.

[–]BatemaninAccountingHuey Lewis Connoisseur 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]-Shes-A-Carnivalbitch im back & my ass got bigger, fuck my ex you can keep dat.. 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]Aafan_BarbarroMan 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]-Shes-A-Carnivalbitch im back & my ass got bigger, fuck my ex you can keep dat.. 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Aafan_BarbarroMan 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]-Shes-A-Carnivalbitch im back & my ass got bigger, fuck my ex you can keep dat.. 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Aafan_BarbarroMan 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]-Shes-A-Carnivalbitch im back & my ass got bigger, fuck my ex you can keep dat.. 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

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[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Aafan_BarbarroMan 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Aafan_BarbarroMan 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Electronic_West_1831 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Electronic_West_1831 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AutoModerator[M] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42No pill woman. I post DMs 5 points6 points7 points 2 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]DerayRevanRed Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42No pill woman. I post DMs 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]DerayRevanRed Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42No pill woman. I post DMs 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]DerayRevanRed Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42No pill woman. I post DMs 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Aafan_BarbarroMan 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42No pill woman. I post DMs 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Aafan_BarbarroMan -3 points-2 points-1 points 2 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42No pill woman. I post DMs 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Aafan_BarbarroMan 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Wicked-sister 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Act-8610 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spare-Estimate5596 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SpitFireSpear 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link