~ archived since 2018 ~

controversial thoughts on the female orgasm

August 12, 2022

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this. I suspect most readers here have a less promiscuous background than I do. However, it's something I think most of the US is blue-pilled on, and I certainly was until I allowed myself to think these somewhat unorthodox thoughts - so maybe the folks in this forum will understand. Sorry it's long.

I probably had my first orgasm at around 12 years old using a jacuzzi jet. I was reading a romance novel in the bathtub and discovered it. Since then, I've always been able to easily make myself orgasm.

Fast forward to my first sexual encounters with men: growing up in a modern, liberal-minded society all my male partners ALWAYS went down on me and wanted to make sure I orgasmed every time. At first, I liked it. I thought it was great that they wanted to make sure I orgasmed just like they did.

But as I got older, I realized the part of sex I enjoyed the most was the intimacy of penetration. I didn't orgasm in sex most of the time but I loved it more than I liked orgasming. You feel so intimate and close with another human.

Men would continue to insist on "making me cum" but I did it to please them. It made them feel better about themselves if they could go down on me and give me an orgasm. I didn't really care if they did, but they'd be disappointed in themselves if they couldn't make me orgasm so I always let them. Then they'd feel satisfied that they made me climax. What they did not realize was that it was the (non-orgasmic) sex that pleased me so much more than the mechanical clitoral orgasm. I might as well use a vibrator as have a man's head between my legs - it's so impersonal, mechanical, detached.

Love is the part of sex that I love. Orgasm is just a physiological response.

I tried to google it and see if anyone else was having these thoughts. Mostly I found articles about how it's okay if you can't orgasm, sex can still be just as good. But these words - "just as good" - were troubling. I think sex can be BETTER when we don't fixate on female orgasms. I can orgasm just fine. I prefer not to.

And it makes me wonder if we've actually made sex worse for women by focusing so much on the orgasm aspect of sex - men see the orgasm as the central goal of sex - and so they want us to experience it too and get obsessed with making us orgasm - when in fact, it is the intimacy and closeness part of sex that is really more enjoyable for most women when we aren't fixated on making sure we orgasm.

Anyway, you are an open minded bunch so I was curious to hear your thoughts.

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[–]titlejunk 125 points126 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, sex is better when neither partner is fixated on the end game. I’ve been w my husband for a decade. In the past year or less we’ve been exploring what probably amounts to tantric sex and it is mind blowing. Slow down. Feel what feels good. Soak in that feeling for as long as you can.

It would be the most boring porn video ever, but holy cow, it feels so good.

[–]new_moon_solstice[S] 23 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

maybe that's part of the secret of good marital sex? so many married couples struggle with it.

[–]inthacut12 20 points21 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m listening 📝 pls elaborate what exactly “tantric” means😁

[–]titlejunk 22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Slow meditative sex that enjoys the moment rather than the destination.

He will take his time to get inside me and then we will just stay there for a bit. He’s throbbing. I’m pulsing. No one is moving. Then you do what feels best.

I had to have a full conversation excusing him from having an orgasm. If he is focused on his orgasm or my orgasm, it can’t work. He can get soft. I can lose focus. But we are both doing our best to just be present.

Honestly we end up cumming at the same time more often than not. Just because of the connection.

[–]VictoriaSobocki 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Tantric is awesome

[–]plum_moon 23 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do agree with your thesis. Sex is physical struggle for me, but I have a very high libido. I rarely orgasm from it, but I love it and want a lot of it. My boyfriend has a lot of difficulty orgasming himself but has a similarly high libido. Sometimes sex between us is just touching and kissing and stimulating each other until we decide to stop. that's still extremely fulfilling for both of us. Orgasms are amazing but shouldn't be the goal of sex--sex should be an expression of feelings.

I think the sexiest and most romantic word is "more." Sex is a way of showing you want more and more of someone.

That said, I think you should be willing to try to make your partner orgasm, via whatever works for them. But if it doesn't happen, that doesn't mean it was a failure! You still did a lot of fun things together.

[–]Cosima_Fan_Tutte 37 points38 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hmmm, for me, soooort of but not quite. Yes, some of the hottest, most memorable sex I had with my husband was sex where I was nowhere near an orgasm...BUT...that sex was either:

a) somewhat risky sex in public (like in a hollow redwood tree when we were hiking in Northern California 🌳)

or B) quick, down and dirty, wham, bam, thank-you ma'am sex where my husband's desire and dominance was super exciting in itself.

So, yeah, risk and spontaneity are hot without the orgasm. However, for more leisurely normal sex in the bedroom, I'd be pretty disappointed and dissatisfied if orgasms weren't a thing. It doesn't happen every time, but I like that my husband thinks about that stuff. When he doesn't feel like giving me an orgasm, he can bang me quick in the kitchen, lol.

[–]jadeylala 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It seems so unnatural (to me) to have sex with an objective in mind.

I love being in my husband's energy, it's like I'm all caught up in him, the connection, the entire experience. It's so much more than having an orgasm. I feel this way regardless of what kind of sex we're having too.

Interestingly enough, I have way more orgasms (including PIV orgasms) with my husband compared to my two previous partners who were really adamant about making me come.

[–]PerhapsItsKelpie1 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

Why are you saying "I like this" and turning it into "sex should be this way/most women prefer it this way". That's not true at all? Most women enjoy orgasming and struggle finding a partner who cares about that, yours is honestly the first account of a woman saying "Every man I have sex with makes me orgasm" I've seen, which is especially shocking since you have a negative view of it. You like a specific method of sex, and you've been cursed with good partners who assume you're like the majority of women and enjoy cumming. I think you just need to be more communicative. Best wishes. I don't understand this sub whatsoever (trust me, I don't want to), so oops if a argumentive comment will get me banned.

[–]femm-fatale1 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

Have a hard time believing all of her casual sex encounters went down on her/made her orgasm, men are notorious for not caring about women’s pleasure outside of relationships

[–]LivelyLychee[M] 23 points24 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Be polite or be quiet. There’s no need to assume OP is lying when she’s just sharing her opinion and experiences, and wondering if anyone else feels the same way. Removed.

[–]new_moon_solstice[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

wow I missed this comment Im dying to know what they thought I was lying about!

[–]PerhapsItsKelpie1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

It is pretty astounding! Must have a radar or sum

[–]avotoastisgreat 25 points26 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I (27F) never orgasmed (alone or with a partner) until last year, and I completely relate to where you're coming from.

Whenever I would tell my previous partners that I had never orgasmed before, they would kind of treat it like a competition. Like I was some conquest. I would always preface by saying that it's totally okay if I don't orgasm (and that most likely, I probably wouldn't). That I feel completely satisfied with the closeness and intimate aspects of sex. But I never actually felt heard, and somehow it became my fault that I couldn't orgasm for them. Like their egos were more important than my feelings about our sexual relationship. It was a real stresser for me and it took the natural love out of sex.

Fast forward to my current partner, and honestly, love of my life. He's the first person I was ever able to orgasm with. I literally cry every time I orgasm with him (which is not every time we are intimate) because I feel so much overwhelming emotion for him. He took the pressure off of sex and orgasm so that I am free to just be with him. We simply have fun and love each other, and that's how it should be. There's no expectation that either of us has to finish with an orgasm, but when we do, it's the cherry on top.

[–]fatbitchonline 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

sex is what you make of it. i think all of it can be intimate and a good way to connect, whether it’s penetration or not. my boyfriend and i enjoy it no matter what we’re doing really. but i ultimately need to orgasm or else i feel hella unsatisfied. that’s the best feeling for me rather than just sex itself

[–]VasiliyZaitzevTRP Senior Endorsed 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, we do kind of feel like we’ve let the team down if we don’t get you off. I get it though. I’m never going to have an orgasm from road head, but I do appreciate the effort though, you know?

The best thing to do, ofc, is to communicate – using words even though I know that can be scary sometimes – with our partners about likes/dislikes.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree that "fixating" on an orgasm in a mechanical way sounds sad and like it would get in the way of intimacy. But overall, this post puzzles me. I see orgasm as a natural, wonderful part of an intimate sexual experience and I don't understand why OP is acting like she has to choose between orgasm and intimacy. It shouldn't be one or the other - it should be both.

[–]TheFruitofKnowledge 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think she is saying that she can only have a clitoral orgasm (and maybe only from a partner when receiving oral), which she does not find intimate. I also can only orgasm clitorally, and I also don't like receiving oral (it feels like the man is in a submissive position). For me, it has to be done with my fingers. But my partner helps, and I like that. But I don't feel the need for a orgasm every time. Just when I feel like it.

[–]new_moon_solstice[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link might be puzzling because I do not have orgasms with sex. Many women do not. And by orgasm, I mean specifically how a man experiences an orgasm - there is a build, and a climax, and after the climax you don't want any more because it's uncomfortable and no longer enjoyable - a "refractory period." Personally, I have to choose because sex does not lead to orgasm most of the time for me (and apparently like 80% of women or more)

[–]mcjohnalds45 29 points30 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

As a dude who is fixed on making his partners cum, I appreciate this insight.

In retrospect, women I've been with who seek intimacy always leave satisfied, while women who seek orgasm will sometimes leave frustrated.

[–]new_moon_solstice[S] 14 points15 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I didn't expect many men to be reading this! But that is very interesting to hear. I would take my opinion with a grain of salt because I can't speak for all women, but it's been revelatory for me when I acknowledged to myself that orgasm was not the be-all and end-all of sex for me.

[–]BeholdTheHair 10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link


That's precisely the word I was about to use.

I'm also a dude and have generally had the same approach of always making sure the woman I'm with gets off. It's partially a pride thing, knowing I'm good enough to get her there. In truth, however, until now I'd simply never really considered it from any perspective other than my own.

Generally speaking, for men the orgasm is the natural end goal of sex. The sex itself is fun too, of course, but not popping off at the end is usually at least a little bit frustrating. And painful if it goes on long enough or happens enough times.

It never even occurred to me women might be wired differently in that regard - though, in hindsight, and given all the other differences between men and women I have no trouble accepting, it seems almost forehead-slapping obvious.

The grain of salt is probably well advised but, even if you are something of an outlier, this is definitely something worth keeping in mind. Thank you for the insight.

[–]new_moon_solstice[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for sharing. Of course, everyone is different but I posted because I think maybe my thoughts are not all that unusual, and yet they are somehow taboo.

[–]prince0verit 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm a dude who doesn't really care if I cum or not. It's also the intimacy I like more. Oddly, the woman in my life has always been obsessed with me being able to finish, and it has evolved into a strange opposite world for me.

I can completely relate to what OP posted here.

[–]_Pumpkin_Muffin 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think sex can be better when we don't fixate on orgasms for anyone. It is nice if it's there? Heck yes. Is it the point? No. The point is the intimacy, not the mechanics.

However, there could be a million perspectives on this and they could all be right. It's personal.

[–]Underground-anzac-99 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

True, but there’s nothing better than coming together, surely?

[–]chinaskiii 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree in a way. I also agree with the OP. Before I had partners fixated on either their end game or mine, but now my fiance is all about us just being intimate, and now I can say I've had truly amazing sex. We have finished together, which is insanely beautiful in terms of bonding and intimacy. Also, one has finsihed without the other, but neither feels unsatisfied.

I feel a lot of it comes from our emotional bond. He is a good man that makes me feel safe and cared for, and in turn he makes me strive to be a good woman that provides safety and love to him. We have mutual respect and admiration for one another that I have never had with any other man. I think that is the key. I could never have another orgasm again, and I still would think sex with him is better than any other man I've been with simply because the emotional bond and security is so strong. But then, I also think that's why I don't worry about having to never having to go without orgasms.

To the main point though, finishing together IS amazing.

[–]femm-fatale1 points [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

I don’t really care to be eaten out or have an orgasm as long as piv feels good. For most women it’s probably never been pleasurable

[–]new_moon_solstice[S] 3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

You are saying intercourse has never been pleasurable for most women? If so, why do you think?

[–]femm-fatale1 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

The concentration of the nerve endings close to the entrance of a woman’s vagina (the lower third) can provide pleasurable sensation during sexual activity when stimulated. Ninety percent of the vagina’s nerve endings are in this area. However, the vagina as a whole has insufficient nerve endings for sexual stimulation and orgasm; this lack of nerve endings makes childbirth significantly less painful.

Even when I watch porn I can tell they can’t really feel or get into it

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That’s so wild because I have a g-spot in the very back and it creates the best orgasms. Now I’m scared for childbirth 😂

[–]ikfl1 Star 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Some women can have orgasmic births, so it could definitely be a blessing to you even in that regard!

[–]snarky-barbie 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

i HATE piv. it hurts and does not feel good

[–]jtriangle 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't want you to feel like anything is dreadfully wrong with you, that's a common thing to experience and it's a very solvable problem. Here's a link to a site that likely explains why you're experiencing what you're experiencing, it'll help, promise.

[–]Patient_Possession11 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Check with your Dr and maybe see a pelvic floor physio therapist.

[–]peachycreaam 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

“it’s so impersonal, mechanical, detached.”

I think that’s a big reason why it’s become the main focus of sex for some people. It’s a sex positive/lib feminism thing. Use a man for impersonal oral sex the same way some of them use women. Most popular female rap artists and some pop artists talk about this. Not my thing personally.

[–]HomeHornet 10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

My wife is not red pill but she often tells me that to her it really doesn't matter if she orgasms or not and not to hold back my own until she does. (She doesn't like receiving oral). So yes, I would say she would be of similar mindset to yours. I do find that mindset actually VERY erotic. After years, I have embraced it and stopped trying to make her cum, but it's not just liberalist thinking, it is a male drive and ego boost to know the woman has orgasmed. I suspect there is some biological drive there..

[–]new_moon_solstice[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's very interesting that you find it erotic. She probably loves that.

As far as male drive wanting to know the woman orgasm'd, maybe it is true, but I also wonder a bit if it's projecting the importance of climaxing for males onto females. Orgasming (and this may be me projecting) is such a central mindset for males. It's so important. So men often want women to have the same experience, out of care and love, when in fact, it's not what we desire because we aren't men.

On the other hand, I've occasionally had partners stop sex before orgasm and I feel guilty when that happens - like I didn't turn them on enough.

So perhaps both sexes worry about this. But I definitely feel it's more important, speaking generally, for men to orgasm than for women!

[–]HomeHornet 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

To be honest it's not out of love and care, I show those in other ways. Her orgasming 8s a form of validation for most men. It's confirmation that you are a good lover. I do agree with you that it's something that men should stop and think about. Maybe a drive that is worth reconsidering. The male orgasm, objectively speaking is more important - without it there are no babies.

[–]magicalunicornjuice 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Something interesting I learned as far as PIV sex is that a lot of men are doing it “wrong” from the perspective of what actually can stimulate the clitoris during sex.

It can either be due to male circumcision making that kind of deep but small scooty grindy motion that stimulates the clitoris not feel like anything to the man, or feel too intense to do for more than a few seconds.

Or it can be due to men copying pr0n where they use big long exaggerated strokes and spend a majority of their time pulling away from their partners body instead of remaining mostly inside in contact with the clitoris.

The vagina’s walls have a texture that grabs on to the foreskin and the man is supposed to be able to remain mostly inside and make small thrusts basically in and out of himself. The vagina then gets constant, rhythmic clitoral stimulation, less friction and more of a glide, and all the fluids stay in as well, whereas for a circumcised man he has to pull all the way out and in, with the barb shape of the glans actually scraping out the woman’s natural lube.

People outside the US think it’s weird how in American movies men use lotion to masturbate. In most of the world lotion and bottled sexual lubricant are mostly unnecessary.

The male foreskin absolutely serves a purpose for intercourse and it’s a scam for men and couples everywhere that, at least where I’m from, we go cutting them off babies without a thought.

Sources: (nsfw close up pictures and gifs of real privates)

Marilyn Milos, former nurse and current anti infant circumcision activist

@jessicagarnerofficial on tiktok / she goes over male technique and what she calls “poking” vs “scooting” and what a difference it makes for women

[–]Glittering-Neck557 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree actually. Orgasms are kinda whatever for me, it’s more of a mental/emotional thing for me

[–]Unlucky-Study-5582 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This makes me think about times when my boyfriend will be close but say he doesnt want it to end yet and appreciate him for it because it always made me feel so good to hear that.

[–]Teacup0001 Star 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I totally agree with you!

I LOVE having sex with my husband, especially PIV but even the stuff that doesn't do anything for me. Ideally, we'd go at it 1-2 a day.

I don't really like when we focus solely on me. Orgasming is underwhelming and kinda sad when I do it to myself and really hard for me to do with a partner. My husband is determined to keep trying, but it's a mental and physical struggle for me everytime. When it does happen, it's great! But I'm satisfied with 1-2 a year.

I think there's been studies done about how women orgasm differently. Some have frequent, less powerful ones and others have infrequent, more powerful ones. I wonder if those in the latter category are more likely to view orgasms as superfluous.

[–]ash5991 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I feel almost the same way. I definitely do like to cum though lol, my husband is definitely an overachiever when it comes to that. He is the type that goes out his way to make sure I'm 100% satisfied, which is really sweet and sexy. He gets off on making me cum which I like. However, I do agree with what you said, I crave the closeness of penetration. I love the feeling of the rest of the world and life just falling away and for awhile it's just me and him. He feels that way too; we've talked about it. It might sound corny, but one of my most cherished memories is making love with him and we both kinda teared up because we were just so in love, we were kids and still dating, I have no idea if I came or not lol I just remember that unexplainable feeling of my heart just being so happy.

[–]AdventurousAd5107 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I understand exactly what you mean. I’ve only ever had this with my husband though and I think it comes from simply wanting to please and that special feeling that you don’t need to gain anything it’s just for him and that’s satisfying enough.

[–]sunglasses901 Star 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with you totally. I discovered orgasm very young. I can make myself come easily. I come very easily by piv. I like it, it’s great, but I’m more interested in the emotional connection of sex.

Everybody’s different. It’s good that guys want to please you and give back, but it doesn’t need to become a fixation.

[–]Such_Beginning_1629 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

By our Christian dominated upbringing (all the book religions really) we have a set of morals and tabus. Men coming to orgasm is ok, necessary for reproduction. Women coming to orgasm happens mostly with extra work. It is considered unnecessary and hard on the man. Your post is a stellar example of how these views shape our thinking even today.

[–]Teacup0001 Star 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Catholic teaching on the female orgasm is that it should happen every "session" and the husband is sinning against his wife if he neglects her pleasure.

I'm not exactly sure how long it's been this way, but at least since Pope JPII (which admittedly isn't long).

[–]itsintheayes 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Haha yes! So true.

[–]Heartshapedbeds 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agree! Some chase the objective a little bit too hard making their experience unenjoyable

[–]tinylittletoad 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I lurk sometimes and don't usually post here, but I just had to respond to this because it's the first time someone has read my mind on this subject.

It's because the majority of men these days are brainwashed by porn and 'sex positive' media. I can't stand it when men are obsessed with this subject. I have actually had to tell my husband to stop asking about it constantly. It actually gives me a lot of anxiety. I am still trying to explain to my husband that I don't care, but he's been so convinced by pornography that women have to 'finish' just like men do to enjoy intimacy. In fact this is a really common belief from men. They think they have somehow failed if the woman doesn't finish. It's really off putting and people think I'm some kind of awful person for thinking this and it's actually hurtful.

[–]Waxflower8 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn’t know I needed to read this. Thank you!

[–]Helpful-Ad919 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Karezza sex is all about love making without orgasming. Read more about it

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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