Q4RP: Cheating. Relationship imperative, inevitable moral hazard, or completely out-of-bounds?

bsutansalt · 2020-02-28T13:46:52+00:00

Out of bounds obviously. What constitutes cheating is the real question and can vary wildly from person to person.

If you want an open relationship, then don't be a pussy and simply make your intentions known.

Adviceaccoumt · 2020-02-26T16:29:04+00:00

Cheating sucks. I believe you shouldnt do it, and neither should your partner. It is an absolute disrespect, not only to your partner, but to YOU especially.

StraightGangstaHack · 2020-02-26T17:51:10+00:00

A few years ago, I worked with a 10/10 Chad. Guy was from the islands. White women in the city loved him to death.

Once as he and I went out for lunch, a girl cold approached him. His response: "I've got three girlfriends already. But if you want to be number four..."

He got her number.

Life lessons. I tell every plate right up front, monogamy is a hard pass for me. I'm not going to go chasing them around and trying to police what they do, and I just ask the same in return.

It is absolutely amazing how well that works. I've had objections - but the simple fact that I'm honest and I mean it, works wonders. It also helps that women are cheating whores, and almost everyone you have that convo with, is a cheater themselves. Many will even admit it. For the ones that don't, I've gotten adept at surfacing it in a gentle, almost kind way. It's human nature. Isn't the important thing just whether you're happy with someone? Why waste each other's time with lies when we can be closer through honesty? Aren't those the most interesting relationships anyway?

I haven't yet had a girl walk over it.

_-resonance-_ · 2020-02-26T21:24:38+00:00

Deceit is a beta characteristic due to fear of consequences.

EffigyDijjih · 2020-02-26T16:49:15+00:00

My thoughts on it are simple, do whatever it is you wanna do and own the action AND consequences of that action. You don't need anyone's approval, if you want strange go out and get strange. If you want to be that ideal commited husband who's virtues limit him from acting on his primitive nature do that. There's no right way to live the life of your choice aside from doing what it is you want to do being the only exception.

Morality aside, what do you want? What are you willing to do to get that?

Edit; There's few arguements against cheating outside of moral standards being made here, but what I'd like to highlight is what some people have mentioned. It can be very taxing, it can be more trouble than what it's worth. It can fuck up your life in a very significant way. These are all things I'd expect a man to be able to consider for himself, and do what he pleases after the fact. You're your own Captain. Lead your life.

basebool · 2020-02-26T22:46:00+00:00

Cheating is a horrible thing to do, man or woman. If you want to fuck a lot of women, don't promise them monogamy. Simple as that.

Quite frankly, I'm shocked about seeing posts about men being praised on cheating on their woman. All it shows is that you have to lie to get what you want.

Red pill should be about getting what you want by stoicism, dominance and taking care of yourself first and foremost. Lying and deceiving should not be part of it.

DancesWithPugs · 2020-02-26T18:11:06+00:00

Moral hazard and strictly out of bounds without full agreement. It's betrayal of someone who is supposed to come first, wounding at a deep level.

You can't talk about morals on RedPill! Which I have a problem with. Guys talk about "enjoying the decline" in the process of adding to it. This is juvenile avoidance of responsibility while breaking hearts, lying, emotionally traumatizng. We talk about men and women are different, women are sensitive, then an "RP" believer and his,bros pumps and dumps creating an alpha widow. Instead of easy wife material. All this stuff about sons being raised by single moms, well step up and get involved as a parent or mentor.

Women respect a man who honorably pursues his self interest. They want in, and decent ones help out. A selfish partner will probably turn abusive or neglectful. Women try to guard against it but get seduced by game and bodies.

Since we talk blunty here: Live with honor and don't be a horse's ass with women. The original idea of chivalry wasn't flowers and opening doors. It was the idea that you shouldn't trample a peasant with your warhorse or cut them down just because you have the power.

Responsible use of power is reliable and gives heed to followers needs. This builds trust which is further power.

Jaggarojo · 2020-02-26T17:53:17+00:00

Cheating, on paper, is bad. Though I'm compelled to think that's a blue pill belief.

Cheating, in practice though, needs a bit more analysis. I believe it happens because the other partner is inept to fulfill the sexual tingles in the cheater. Attraction cannot be negotiated, and even less maintained by trying to fix the relationship. I'm talking about stuff like covert contracts, where the guy washes dishes, does chores, etc., basically anything to "relieve his woman from stress" to expect sex. So often, cheating is a symptom of a bigger problem: that at least one of the two parties (usually the man) is not effectively managing his shit and proving himself to be a HVM.

That's why LTR and married game are so much more difficult. When you exposure with her increases, you're giving her more opportunity to constantly reassess her choice. You're constantly being scrutinized. Those who have never thought of an ejection plan might be too emotionally devastated to even learn anything out of it.

I'd like to internalize the belief that if my partner cheats, it's because I slipped. She wouldn't even consider it if I was applying the appropriate dread/game.

That being said, I'd never take her back if she did. That's a gap in respect I'll never allow her to fill.

MrAnderzon · 2020-02-26T16:44:45+00:00

[removed]

rebuildingMyself · 2020-02-26T17:17:49+00:00

If you enter a relationship with the agreement of exclusivity, then cheating is a violation of the terms of the contract and grounds for dissolution. That being said, if both parties agree to being open (or one side only), then that's not "cheating". The key point is that both sides agree.

trplurker · 2020-02-26T18:47:20+00:00

Depends on where the "committed" part starts.
My point of view is that a mans word counts a lot, meaning when a man makes a promise not to screw others women, he should upload the promise he made. If he never made such a promise, then there is zero obligation to upload the non-existent promise.

As far as I know there is exactly one situation where a man may make an unconditional promise not to fuck around on his partner. That situation also requires that partner to make the same promise and there is usually some sort of rings exchanged and words said by some official of an ancient sky god.

Whisper · 2020-02-27T00:26:50+00:00

The answer to this question is implied by the very nature of hypergamy.

The term "hypergamy" actually means that women are inherently monogamous. They are only capable of sustained attraction to one man at once. The only time they can be attracted to more than one man is if they are in the process of losing attraction to one and gaining it to the other.

"Hypergamy" really means that women are monogamous to whatever man they are attracted to the most. Second place isn't even the first loser, he's just one of the losers.

This isn't true of a man. He is attracted to different girls at once, in proportion to how attractive each of them is to him.

Hell, I've had sex with women who are less attractive, less well-behaved, and not as good in bed as FunSize, just because I like a little variety now and again. Eggs are expensive, sperm is cheap. Therefore, women protect their expensive eggs from anyone less than the best they can get, and men give away our cheap sperm on a whim.

What does this mean?

You must not let your woman cheat on you. If she does, or even wants to, she's not that into you.
If she's just a plate, it might be okay that she's not that into you. That's up to you.
If you agree not to cheat on a woman, you are doing to appease her, not for your reasons. Consider carefully whether you want to let a woman have that much control over you.
If you have no agreement or expectation not to cheat on a woman, and you find yourself not doing so, then it might just be because her competition can't stack up to her.

SeasonedRP · 2020-02-26T23:27:14+00:00

For those who are inexperienced and get confused by threads like these, I'll point out a couple of things that rarely happen in real life but that seemingly happen all the time on the internet: (1) a formal conversation where one solemnly and expressly promises his LTR that he'll be faithful to her until the day he dies, and (2) a decent quality woman getting into an LTR and expressly agreeing, after full disclosure, that the man can see other women whenever he wants, but that she'll remain faithful to him.

In real life, these kinds of things are nearly always implied from behavior, and thus it isn't always possible to make bright line moral judgments. The tradcon-type responses to this post are an example of trying to apply male logic when dealing with women, which doesn't work.

throwaway69764 · 2020-02-26T17:20:46+00:00

Cheating is fucking gay. If you decide to be exclusive with a girl, at least stick to it.

guynpdx · 2020-02-26T20:37:23+00:00

Cheating, just like lying, is a position of weakness. Always.

Proto_Sigma · 2020-02-26T22:53:40+00:00

Part of the reason why cheating and lying are considered no morally heinous and why traitors are consigned to the lowest level of hell in many mythologies is that more than anything else, such activity threatens the foundation of society- trust. When you go to the doctors office, despite knowing little about medicine, you trust that the doc knows what he’s doing. When you buy something with a credit card the seller trusts that the company will pay him and the company trusts you will pay them. If we cannot trust one another than the relationships our civilization relies on would fall apart completely.

Of course, a key part of being Red Pilled is knowing that despite the damage it does many people will lie and cheat in order to get some short term benefit. Case in point, branch swinging, trickle truth, “it just happened.” Switching to a framework of “trust but verify”, where the possibility that you are being lied to or manipulated is always considered until proven otherwise is vital to escaping the blue pull trap. Also, understanding the interests of the other party and whether or not they align with holding their agreement rather than trusting their good nature is a skill you must develop, which is why we spend so much time dissecting female nature. Your best defense against being cheated on is being too high value to lose and being willing to walk if cheated on- you really have nothing else.

Knowing that deceit is destructive and possibly profitable in the short term, the question becomes should you do it. My answer would be no- there are no circumstances where it should be necessary for you to cheat in the first place. Aside from wanting not to contribute to the destruction of the social fabric, I’m aware that if I’m caught behaving dishonestly any vaguely rational party will penalize me, often quite severely. You should never be in a committed relationship with a known cheater, and that advice goes both ways- keeping your sexual history on the down low is textbook red pill but word gets around and any woman with half a brain would know to steer clear of you. Maybe you’re just so alpha that tingles overwhelm rational thought, but if you value having a long term partner with some sense this is a bad strategy.

Furthermore, you don’t have to give away your exclusivity in the first place. You don’t owe a woman anything until you say “okay, we’re exclusive.” If you aren’t comfortable with that under any terms, you don’t have to agree. If you do agree but the other party isn’t keeping their side of the agreement, break up- you don’t have to stay. If you’re married... well you’re in deep shit, which is why you should never do it, but cheating just makes it more likely that you’ll get double penetrated in your divorce rape as the at fault party.

TL;DR If you’re playing your cards right you should never have to cheat in the first place, leave a girl if you aren’t getting what you want and find another one, deception is a poor long term strategy because everyone who catches on will never deal with you again.

chazthundergut · 2020-02-26T23:08:16+00:00

You cant cheat on someone you aren't exclusive with

abangizhar · 2020-02-27T13:39:46+00:00

What cheating? i want a wife, an adultery partner and a personal "fucktoy". It's called soft harem.

Nighthawk_Black_ · 2020-02-26T17:36:28+00:00

If you're going to cheat don't be fucking stupid don't get caught. Fuck an escort and then go home don't be fucking your girlfriends best friend that's how things get messy.

ThrowawayYAYAY2002 · 2020-02-26T17:39:12+00:00

All of the above.

I'd like to think that it's "out of bounds" (because I don't do it)... But I have done it before.

Did I feel good about it? For a minute - then the guilt sank in.

Leaving someone can be fucking hard.

And even though they have overstepped your boundaries, and you know that you need to call it a day with them, it can be very hard to do. As weak as it sounds, that's why I've cheated before. That was my way of "getting even" with her.

Haven't cheated on my current GF. But if I've been hurt by her, and I struggle to leave, I don't know what will happen.

Fresh pussy/New women mean nothing to me. So it's not like I've done it for that reason. It's just the quickest way to get my revenge.

Also depends on what your relationship with your woman is like.

Been together 10 years, got kids with her, and live together? Yeah, there's been cheating from one of you, no doubt. But it's hard to walk away.

I think in this day and age, especially, it will happen.

Is it wrong? Yes. But there's too much temptation now, so the odds aren't in your favour, unfortunately.

DF-RP · 2020-02-26T19:33:03+00:00

[deleted]

Gnosiis_ · 2020-02-26T17:24:55+00:00

Inevitable moral hazard. Hazard being a very good word to describe it because it means "risk" or "chance". It means that measures must be taken in order to REDUCE the risk. Women have more options and are more likely to cheat especially when they have security already. There's also the risk of her cheating for no other reason than her having a momentary lapse in judgment or running into a guy at the right place at the right time, even if she is still attracted to her man. Then there's the societal aspect created by sexually liberated feminists where they feel no pressure to remain loyal and exploit their youth without consequence. Let's not forget that a cheating woman may likely be unattracted to her man to cheat in the first place which opens up a big can of worms. Long list isn't it? Let me know the three or four aspects I forgot lol.

For a woman there is less risk. The biggest risk is that her man gets another woman pregnant or leaves her for another woman, then herresource acquisition strategy and security could be compromised. That risk is mitigated, if not eliminated, by her man being high value and/or having a lot of resources at his disposal. In fact for a lot of men it could INCREASE his value or even cause an unattracted LTR to regain some tingles.

In summary, cheating is a far greater hazard for men but could be a tool for high value men. I'm not going to speak about the moral side to this because that is subjective. However, practically, it is a huge issue that men have to contend with. It is also the reason why you should be sloooow to commit.

mywifeson · 2020-02-26T19:42:24+00:00

I’m happy to see the discussion here.

In the past, a lot of Anger Phase NOOBS would be advocating infidelity because to them, sex determined their own value as a man; thus setting the example for others who stumble upon our small community, leading them to go and screech about it to the Reddit hive mind for upvotes.

Going off on a tangent, but I’m glad we have people who have actually internalized the red pill and are discussing it, instead of Alpha Roleplayers who don’t understand what that behavior they are trying to mimic, truly is.

Edit: We need more threads like this, I stepped away from TRP (community) for a LONG time because I had already internalized it, and couldn’t stand the circle jerking of anger phase NOOBS.

trollreign · 2020-02-26T19:51:43+00:00

Goddamn it, this comment section is a cesspit of deep blue pill bullshit.

The reason your feelz tell you that cheating is bad is that you are terrified that the unicorn you are still looking for will be cheating on you.

You still think that setting up rules for yourself about being honest in your LTR will somehow protect you from hypergamy and that this rule will magically apply to the women you date as well. I’m gonna spoil that for you: it won’t apply to her, and there’s nothing you can do about it. It’s out of your control.

If you don’t have kids, it’s really simple. If you think that the best thing for you is cheating, then cheat. A commitment you made in the past is not bounding, you can change your mind at any time. Women reserve that right even if you don’t.

SKRedPill · 2020-02-27T12:52:29+00:00

I think most people cheat only because they can't sink a bad relationship honestly or can't honestly deal with their polygamous / hypergamous natures. Seriously why cheat if your SMV is high enough you can be brazenly honest and you have the power to attract almost anyone and walk away? In patriarchal societies men are openly polygamous.

I've seen a lot of murder cases on shows like Forensic Files back in the day. And one thing I never get in most of the cases is "Gee, if their relationship was so bad, why not just call it off instead of going all the way to murder and prison?" And don't think it was always the woman who got murdered.

Cheaters just want one foot over there where there's fun and one foot here too where there's comfort. But you'll get fucked by the courts when you're caught amongst other things. In my country, a lot still depends on your reputation. You can't afford to lose that.

Ultimately the sex instinct has no concept of morality, but I believe all humans have a need for trust as well and these 2 needs can conflict with each other causing a lot of cognitive dissonance.

Besides I don't tolerate being cheated on, though it is a reality that I must be ready for. It rips a hole in you as your need for trust is even more important than your need for sex -- you will know this if your partner cheats on you. Can't blame that Marine who shot himself when he found out the hard way.

Plus in the long scale, this destroys trust and loyalty between men, men and women, families, parents and children, and societies. Trust is a masculine quality and vital for survival of a tribe in the past, and civilization as such. Without it, even your money doesn't work. I mean a level of professional trust is vital for any society or organization or military to succeed.

In societies on the rise, trust is a value. In declining societies, trust is a liability.

El_Serpiente_Roja · 2020-02-27T18:14:06+00:00

Its risky and should only be done if you can get away with it 100%. Most guys are way too stupid to pull it off without getting caught so better to not even and just dump the chick if you're so bored of her.

Fyn689 · 2020-02-29T01:22:39+00:00

Patrice O'Neill was king in these subjects to me. He thought, and I agree, that honesty was the way of a righteous man, and if you went monogamous you should stick to it, and if you wanted to fuck other women you should propose an open relationship or threesomes, which can be troublesome if you don't know how to manage them.

However, when a woman is effectively pimping the man in a relationship as he called it, he didn't give that LTR as a lost cause, he did not condone but understood that getting some side pussy could be beneficial for the man to get the reins back, to get his confidence up, to get some fish smell on him haha as he also called it, which is basically that attitude a man has when he has more pussy available that turns him attractive because women SOMEHOW know that to be the case.

He also talked about the possible consequences which could be devastating for a man's life. He talked about being smart, don't tell anybody about your cheating, not even close friends. Clear all traces effectively, set rules for the new girl, DONT get a crazy bitch, DONT get into an affair. You need a plate, that's all. Get your fun and your fish smell and get out, get your life back and stop fucking around.

DerekMorganBAU · 2020-03-01T13:42:41+00:00

Ain't nuthin wrong with it. I've cheated on everyone and one of my exes that I cheated on begged for me back.

It works for me to cheat so I do it. I've never suffered any "consequences."

SalporinRP · 2020-03-02T10:40:43+00:00

I fooled around a few times in my last relationship when she was acting up. I wasn't proud of myself and I don't think I'll do it again just because the stress of needing to hide it/trying to sneak around just isn't worth it.

Since then I've just been keeping plates but if I got into another LTR I would probably not cheat for MY personal morals and mental wellbeing.

If other guys want to cheat then that's fine.

VisiblePlan · 2020-02-26T17:32:15+00:00

Most men who extol the virtues of monogamy and staying faithful to their one and only have never had beautiful women in the throes of passion. It becomes intoxicating. That being said, to avoid any societal damage my cheating might cause me, I simply never enter into an 'exclusive' relationship. Some women think they might be exclusive with me, but I never told them we were or made any hint of that clear to them. Most men who claim monogamy is the way to go have never had sex before.

HelpMeFindNewGlasses · 2020-02-27T06:28:04+00:00

Immoral. Anything moralizing it to be is rationalization at its finest.

INNASKILLZ2K18 · 2020-02-27T10:45:11+00:00

Why invite shit into your life by cheating?

To me, it invites too much bullshit.

Sure, there are different scenarios and life situations but if you're a together, non-attached guy then go into dating being open about it.

If you're lying about seeing other girls, then to me it just fucks game up. You have to lie more, hide what you do, pretend, and I don't see how that truly aligns with the usual RP strategies.

Be high value, fuck a few girls, don't pretend you don't. Let them decide to stay or go. Allow them to fight for commitment and so forth.

horaxical · 2020-02-27T12:47:32+00:00

Just be sensible, don't get caught. The thing that would get you caught mostly is your mobile

logitech757 · 2020-02-27T21:15:00+00:00

it is never worth the pain

8380atgmaildotcom · 2020-02-28T04:04:16+00:00

Read /u/whisper Hypergamy is Monogamy post.

Irtotallynotrobot · 2020-03-01T15:41:32+00:00

This is a question of principle. You have to set moral boundaries you believe in and hold them. It's a good question to ask but really the only answer for that one comes from you.

KingOfAllWomen · 2020-03-05T16:12:43+00:00

Cheating is bluepill. Don't tell a woman you commit to her unless.. ya know.. you mean it!

If you don't mean it - don't say it. If you HAVE to say it to get laid, well, you still got some improving to do.

I would say the model man has enough control of his life and confidence to tell someone simply and honestly what their intentions are when it comes to relationships.

ReUptheReUp · 2020-03-06T01:53:56+00:00

This is a no brainer. Even open relationships can turn sour, despite all the game one has. Deffo a no-no. If your shit's on lock, she'd be too busy being lost in you to worry about fucking anyone else. If you're really wanting your relationship to work, without BS, then cheating on her isn't productive either. And if you feel the urge to, then a LTR isn't for you, and you need to learn, and internalise, what it is that makes you successful with women, sleep with the kind of women you've always wanted to, then maybe give an LTR another go.

UnbreakableFrame · 2020-03-09T13:15:40+00:00

Lots moralizing going on here. I think it's much simpler than that.

If you have to lie to people in order to lead the life that you want, you are weak. This will be reflected in every aspect of your life, not just your relationships.

epicgangforcemanga · 2020-03-19T23:32:04+00:00

I got cheated on before taking the red pill. I dumped her and took time to reflect and it helped me become red pilled. If you get cheated on it’s because you weren’t fulfilling her and it may not even be your fault (perhaps she wasn’t letting you know her needs). The way I see it is any time you’re cheated on, you’re being extremely disrespected and as a man you cannot stand that. You at least have to take a break and reflect before deciding to let her back into your world.

RStonePT · 2020-03-29T22:21:23+00:00

Make it interesting.

You have a wife and 3 kids, all teens at 4 years away from moving out of the house and going to college.

Wife sleeps with a friend from soccer practice and you find out from buddies wife and nor your wife.

I'd love to see the bravado on this moral quandry

EffigyDijjih · 2020-02-27T04:12:01+00:00

[deleted]

fatdonkay337 · 2020-02-26T20:46:44+00:00

My motto in college and the advice I gave to my fraternity brothers was that you can use women, just don't lie to them. Cheating is lying. I've never cheated in my life, however I have slept around, talked to multiple girls at a time, Gotten dinners, rides, and favors of them. But when the inevitable "what are we" conversation came about, I was never misleading. If you have to lie to have plates or be talking to multiple women at a time, your game is not strong enough to be doing so.

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Neuromantic85 · 2020-02-26T22:59:20+00:00

Depends. Are you polyamerous and not realizing it? Or are you going against your nature and trying to find out?

To weigh or not to way?

Title	Q4RP: Cheating. Relationship imperative, inevitable moral hazard, or completely out-of-bounds?
Author	redpillschool
Upvotes	192
Comments	209
Date	February 26, 2020 4:13 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/f9vjrf/q4rp_cheating_relationship_imperative_inevitable/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/q4rp-cheating-relationship-imperative-inevitable.341060 https://theredarchive.com/post/341060

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