Question4Men: Would you feel validated if unattractive women wanted you to give them money for nothing in return

Electra_Cute · 2017-02-20T15:37:44+00:00

If a lot of unattractive women came up to you and offered you to finance their lifestyle for nothing in return, not even seeing them or having sexual contact....

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I don't really see where I mentioned her having any expectations. She isn't attracted to the bottom 20% so she doesn't have sex with them and she can't attract anyone above that so she just doesn't have sex at all. She would have to be extremely deluded to think that she "deserves" better but no where in my post did I say so - she knows her SMV, she isn't attracted to the people in her league so she just drops out of a market and lives happily ever after with a bunch of cats. I'm not sure where you get the idea from that she has insecurities or an inflated ego - she knows her position in the dating market and just decides not to participate. Men are free to do the same (MGTOW for example) and I don't see how they would have an inflated ego either.

Like you said, it would be a lot worse for everyone involved if the decided to date men who she is not attracted to - this is what leads to dead bedrooms and the guy just feeling used while she is also unhappy.

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If sex/validation was an absolute, universal human need on par with food, water or air (the way I understood their argument at least) then such exceptions wouldn't exist.

Just the fact that there are exceptions to the rule, by choice throughout history shows that it is not essential to stustain human life - after all there are no exceptions to humams needing food or water to survive - those are actual absolute needs while sex is very obviously not.

As for monks being a "special breed" by definition, I disagree. They may be more so today where everyone gets more or less of a free choice of what they want to do with their lives, however throughout history many christian monks were not asexuals who chose this life for the fun of it - many were sent to monistaries by their families, went for true devotion to their religion or were lucky enough to be saved from poverty by joining. They were normal people with the same urges as the average guy, who then lead a life of abstinence. None of them died from a lack of sex as far as I can see, proving that a normal male can most definitely survive without having sex or getting any sort of attention/validation from women.

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Their genes dying out is different from them dying though. If you don't have food you starve and die as a direct conseqence. Same goes for a lack of water or oxygen. If you don't have sex, you as an individual don't automatically die. There is a difference between primary needs that an intividual needs for survival and those secondary needs that lead to (not) carrying on your genes.

Clearly primary needs like food, water and oxygen rank above all other needs like sex. Again, a person can live without sex - it may not necessarily be a pleasant life, however a (long) life without sex is possible while a life without access to food or water is not, putting those needs clearly above sex.

So far in our society, we recognize a person's right to live (in a more or less dignified manner) - guaranteeing that their primary needs get fulfilled from the day they are born to the day they die. However, their genes do not have any inherent right to live/ be carried on.

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That shit is so outdated, lol. Talk to a modern psychologist, you know a guy who actually went to school and knows what he's talking about. Men do not need sex. No one needs sex. For reproduction, sure, but that's going to eventually be replaced. For a conductive, happy life? No. Sex is not necessary.

That's why not being wanted sexually feels so shitty.

No, that's because these kids live in the first world when not getting your dick sucked is the summit of all of their problems. In South America they are more worried about not being killed or raped by some drug cartel to wonder if they are ''sexually attractive'' or not.

Even psychologists rank it under "survival needs".

When my father was teaching me survival techniques he forgot to tell me to pack a pussy when I go camping in the wild to survive 😂😂

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But it is not analogous in the least bit. It would be analogous if it were sex instead of money. If I were to ask a woman for sex, even if she finds me unattractive, it is validating because regardless of what she thinks of me she gets the ego boost of knowing someone finds her attractive enough to mate with. I suppose I would find any sort of person asking me for money validating because even though I don't ever dole out money to beggars/gold diggers of any sort, it still makes me feel good because I take care of my appearance, present an image of success, and like to think they asked me because it looks like i have money to spare. It is possible to be both validated and annoyed at the same time. Also women enjoy sex, no? I don't think guys can orgasmically hemorrhage dopamine by giving away money.

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being hit on by more attractive guys is more validating than being hit on by ugly dudes, in general.

You don't seem to realize or appreciate that for so many women, "unattractive" men are pretty much anyone who doesn't fall within Chad level of attractiveness, there are so many guys who don't look like models but who also aren't butt ugly or deformed either; they're completely normal/average dudes but they still find themselves being rejected left and right by women who feel they deserve nothing less than a top Chad.

Can't imagine it's that different for guys is it?

You don't seem to understand men, it actually is different, even if we get hit on by women we don't find particularly attractive it still feels nice that we even got hit on at all, it still shows us that someone finds us attractive. Women on the other hand make it seem like being hit on by unattractive is akin or very close to being sexually harassed and they go ape shit over it. Men don't have that kind of reaction.

would it feel better to get hit on by hot girl or an ugly girl?

Again just being hit on at all is validating to guys, which is why many guys would be down to hookup with an ugly regardless if he'd rather hookup with a model.

Either way, however, it can still be uncomfortable, unwanted, and not validating at all.

That's on women. If they're going to be disgusted by the vast majority of guys out there and only hold out for Chads then they have no no one to blame but themselves.

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You don't seem to realize or appreciate that for so many women, "unattractive" men are pretty much anyone who doesn't fall within Chad level of attractiveness, there are so many guys who don't look like models but who also aren't butt ugly or deformed either; they're completely normal/average dudes but they still find themselves being rejected left and right by women who feel they deserve nothing less than a top Chad.

Yeah I disagree completely. Terper fantasy that only "Chad's" are attractive to women.

That's on women. If they're going to be disgusted by the vast majority of guys out there and only hold out for Chads then they have no no one to blame but themselves.

You are telling me it's "on me" when I feel uncomfortable when a guy hits on me - a married woman with a wedding ring? How exactly am I supposed to feel? Grateful I now have to awkwardly reject someone?

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But it is not analogous in the least bit. It would be analogous if it were sex instead of money. If I were to ask a woman for sex, even if she finds me unattractive, it is validating because regardless of what she thinks of me she gets the ego boost of knowing someone finds her attractive enough to mate with.

hahaha. This is so adorable. No, women get so much attention from men that attention past the initial stage of being 13 and being floored with attention becomes highly annoying.

Women aren't retarded. OK, the girls who didn't reject me must've had something wrong with them 🤔 and all of them know that dudes are throwing attention at any girl with the hopes she'll sleep with them, lol. That's not flattering.

Now, if an attractive(according to the girl's perception of what is attractive) man approached her and was charming and decent, yeah. She would feel hella flattered. But most guy's idea of approaching a girl is to send her a dick pic and then wait for a response, which never comes 🤣

I suppose I would find any sort of person asking me for money validating because even though I don't ever dole out money to beggars/gold diggers of any sort, it still makes me feel good because I take care of my appearance, present an image of success, and like to think they asked me because it looks like i have money to spare.

???? Dude, beggars even approach me and I got as much money as a newborn being born to a Jamaican couple in Jamaica 😂

t is possible to be both validated and annoyed at the same time. Also women enjoy sex, no? I don't think guys can orgasmically hemorrhage dopamine by giving away money.

Yes, women enjoy sex with men they find attractive and are attentive to their needs.

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If that were true, that women value men romantically and sexually as much as men value women: 1) women wouldn't be ending 70-80% of relationships, 2) lesbian relationships wouldn't have the highest break-up rates, 3) gay relationships wouldn't have the lowest, 4) male suicide rate after break-ups wouldn't be 10 times higher than the female suicide rate, 5) male depression rates after break-ups wouldn't be higher despite women having overall higher depression rates, and 6) female sexual desire wouldn't continuously decline corresponding directly to relationship length, whereas men's only declines slightly after the honeymoon phase.

Occam's razor that explains ALL of those is that female attraction is weaker and less stable than male attraction, and it also corresponds with evolutionary biology explanation of eggs = scarce and sperm = plentiful. Why do you think our sexual behavior is so predictable and so similar to related primate species?

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[–]YetAnotherCommenterPurple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Complete false equivalence.

For one, sex is not money. Unlike Red Pillers I don't think women get 'gina tingles over money - if women did, Bill Gates would be a sex symbol. Money and wealth are, arguably, "beta" in the sense that they make one attractive on a prudential level for a relationship. They aren't going to get one One Night Stands except from spermjackers or false-rape-accusers, unless they're paired with physical attractiveness and the like.

Second, male attention even from ugly men has its uses; this is what the 'beta orbiter' really is. Women can coast along with the tacit presumption that she's open to a romantic entanglement, whilst the beta orbiter responds to that tacit presumption and provides her with stuff.

Do ugly women buy men stuff, soothe their hurt feels, provide kindness and friendship and assistance when one is in need? No. The gender roles prescribe the opposite; the man must provide for the woman. Thus, ugly male attention may not provide a woman sexual validation but it provides her with resources (i.e. male agency she can enlist in her service). If ugly women tried to butter men up with gifts and willingness-to-white-knight then perhaps there would be equivalence.

But under the current dating model, you're making a false equivalence. The attention of ugly males represents potential benefit for women, even though these benefits aren't necessarily psychological validation.

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[–]DarkLord0chinChin0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (23 children) | Copy Link

And you haven't answered my questions.

This is an automod thread, so I'm not being completely serious.

Still,

"I want money, will you give me money?" "I want sex, will you give me sex?"

This analogy is incorrect because:

Women don't "give" sex. Sex is just something people do together.
Women don't lose anything when they have sex (Or do they?). When you give money you lose money.
There is still potential for desirable sex, which is completely neglected. Giving money is absolutely unacceptable. Being proposed sex can potentially be desirable.

So this is not actually an analogy even, just a poor attempt at a gender flip. If you accept this as a valid analogy you also have to accept the ramifications - like if you say the heart is a pump you have to accept that it moves fluids.

Also, how can you even compare a sexual context with a non-sexual context.. Literally apples to oranges

[–]LyaninaBlue Pill2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarkLord0chinChin0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

And as I said, the analogy is made relative to the validation felt by the person the demand is being made of.

Except you can't talk about validation when only one of your contexts provides it.. Like I can't imagine getting sexual validation in any way shape or form from giving money to women (attractive or not), these things are just too different to be compared like that.

Of course you're not going to feel validation from doing something nonsensical like that, but what makes you think this is an applicable analogy? I could come up with any nonsensical analogy I wanted, would you still think it's legit? I could say it's as validating as being asked to eat shit, can you disprove that this is not a proper analogy?

My analogy is just as good as yours:

Different contexts - sexual vs money vs eating shit. Check
Being asked to do something you don't want. Check

...

I guess the only thing your analogy is useful for is conveying feelings. I guess women really feel like they are losing money or eating shit when someone lesser than Chad dares to hit on them, huh!

Except feelings are not necessarily end all be all there is to a situation.. You can be disgusted by the fact that a thousand men want to fuck you, but you will still know that there exists a thousand men ready to fuck you next time you consider someone as a partner. And this is what the TRP position is about. Women have the ability to have thousands of men interested in them if they know how to use a smartphone.. A woman doubting her self-esteem can go to r/gonewild and post a picture of her body in underwear to get a thousand posters complimenting her and proposing marriage. They are all below her, of course, in fact having sex with them would be as pleasant as eating shit or throwing money away, but you know, ego boosted, self-esteem increased.

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Lower your standards to the floor, and imagine never being approached or hit on and actually having to do that yourself ad nauseum. Now imagine getting rejected by 99% of those attempts. Up your sex drive 20x more as well, a constant thumping in the back of your mind.

Now take that picture and compare it to the one women complain about. How getting so much attention for merely existing, to the point its annoying. Then saying its only acceptable from a small portion of those that are deemed attractive, which is different for every member. Add on that it's only appropriate to show said interest whenever that person decides it is, which is in constant flux and changes based on who's approaching.

So viewing it from that lens, it would be validating to be in that 90% because on the other side of the fence, only maybe 10% on that side get any attention at all, while you really really really want attention.

Do you see know?

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Those are two separate things that you are conflating. SMV does not matter in relationship to the attention she finds validating. Men above her SMV may be unattractive to her, and thus their attention is not welcomed. You've decided to lump two different RP concepts into one for some bizarre reason.

If women didn't receive this attention, maybe they would like. But since they do receive it they don't like it. It's not a front, it's a genuine dislike for an annoyance in their life. Much like traffic on the road.

And no, it's not a strawman. I see RP men constantly insisting that women like something that women clearly demonstrate that they don't like, for reasons that are so attenuated that they stopped having a rational basis long ago. And I see men throughout this thread arguing that women like it, so really, I'm mocking male solipsism more than anything.

[–]DarkLord0chinChin0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Those are two separate things that you are conflating. SMV does not matter in relationship to the attention she finds validating. Men above her SMV may be unattractive to her, and thus their attention is not welcomed. You've decided to lump two different RP concepts into one for some bizarre reason.

I can't quite grasp what is your point here, but let's pretend it's that "I don't know what I'm talking about". I think I know better, but whatever

If women didn't receive this attention, maybe they would like. But since they do receive it they don't like it. It's not a front, it's a genuine dislike for an annoyance in their life. Much like traffic on the road.

This is another strawman. I am not talking about "liking" or "not liking", I am talking about the well-known TRP argument of women having inflated SMV due to receiving so much attention from things like Tinder and Internet.

And no, it's not a strawman. I see RP men constantly insisting that women like something that women clearly demonstrate that they don't like, for reasons that are so attenuated that they stopped having a rational basis long ago. And I see men throughout this thread arguing that women like it, so really, I'm mocking male solipsism more than anything.

So according to you TRP says women like being approached by unattractive men? Too bad I missed that :D

Maybe TRP says that women receive validation from it and their egos and SMV become inflated and they fail to see their SMV equals as viable partners as a result instead?

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Title	Question4Men: Would you feel validated if unattractive women wanted you to give them money for nothing in return
Author	Electra_Cute
Upvotes	7
Comments	312
Date	February 20, 2017 3:37 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/5v55vp/question4men_would_you_feel_validated_if/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/question4men-would-you-feel-validated-if.269985 https://theredarchive.com/post/269985

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