Question4Men: Would you feel validated if unattractive women wanted you to give them money for nothing in return

Electra_Cute · 2017-02-20T15:37:44+00:00

If a lot of unattractive women came up to you and offered you to finance their lifestyle for nothing in return, not even seeing them or having sexual contact....

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Same in the UK, our healthcare systems are different but the outcome is the same: the support in place to treat mental illness is vastly inadequate.

In the UK over 60% of people with depression receive no treatment at all for example.

Many self-medicate with alcohol because the only alternative is seeing their GP, not even a psychiatrist but just a GP, for SSRIs which are often ineffective.

Waiting lists to get proper help (psychiatrist, diagnosis, therapy) can stretch to two years.

I still partially self-medicate with Xanax from the darknet even though I've seen the professionals before because getting benzos over here legitimately is so much effort it's just easier and cheaper to go to the black market. Shout out to /u/hulkedbenzoboss-dnm a literal drug dealer for treating my anxiety better than the actual healthcare system.

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She did it immediately after the tests came back positive for BRCA1. It could mean up to an 85% increase in risk, and she did watch her mother or aunt (I can't remember witch) suffer and die from it. It was her decision alone to make, but goddamnit, maybe give it a year or two to think about the whole thing? She was still rather young, and if we're going to be honest, if you are testing positive for those genes, removing the ovaries might be a good idea in the 50s as well in order to avoid the increased risk of ovarian cancer. I just like to opine about Angelina Jolie being a 100% crazy bird that liked to keep her old boyfriends blood in a vial around her neck. And divorcing BRAD F--CKING PITT for what, smoking pot and talking back occasionally while being a full time father to ALL of her kids?

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I don't really see where I mentioned her having any expectations. She isn't attracted to the bottom 20% so she doesn't have sex with them and she can't attract anyone above that so she just doesn't have sex at all. She would have to be extremely deluded to think that she "deserves" better but no where in my post did I say so - she knows her SMV, she isn't attracted to the people in her league so she just drops out of a market and lives happily ever after with a bunch of cats. I'm not sure where you get the idea from that she has insecurities or an inflated ego - she knows her position in the dating market and just decides not to participate. Men are free to do the same (MGTOW for example) and I don't see how they would have an inflated ego either.

Like you said, it would be a lot worse for everyone involved if the decided to date men who she is not attracted to - this is what leads to dead bedrooms and the guy just feeling used while she is also unhappy.

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If sex/validation was an absolute, universal human need on par with food, water or air (the way I understood their argument at least) then such exceptions wouldn't exist.

Just the fact that there are exceptions to the rule, by choice throughout history shows that it is not essential to stustain human life - after all there are no exceptions to humams needing food or water to survive - those are actual absolute needs while sex is very obviously not.

As for monks being a "special breed" by definition, I disagree. They may be more so today where everyone gets more or less of a free choice of what they want to do with their lives, however throughout history many christian monks were not asexuals who chose this life for the fun of it - many were sent to monistaries by their families, went for true devotion to their religion or were lucky enough to be saved from poverty by joining. They were normal people with the same urges as the average guy, who then lead a life of abstinence. None of them died from a lack of sex as far as I can see, proving that a normal male can most definitely survive without having sex or getting any sort of attention/validation from women.

[–]theiamsamuraiRavishment Realist 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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Their genes dying out is different from them dying though. If you don't have food you starve and die as a direct conseqence. Same goes for a lack of water or oxygen. If you don't have sex, you as an individual don't automatically die. There is a difference between primary needs that an intividual needs for survival and those secondary needs that lead to (not) carrying on your genes.

Clearly primary needs like food, water and oxygen rank above all other needs like sex. Again, a person can live without sex - it may not necessarily be a pleasant life, however a (long) life without sex is possible while a life without access to food or water is not, putting those needs clearly above sex.

So far in our society, we recognize a person's right to live (in a more or less dignified manner) - guaranteeing that their primary needs get fulfilled from the day they are born to the day they die. However, their genes do not have any inherent right to live/ be carried on.

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Women also have a lower sexdrive - cat ladies can clearly live alone into old age. So not only do women on average get more attention (again because men have a very high sexdrive and are therefor thirsty, ready to give attention to more ugly women), they also need it less sex, making them more content with being single and not having any sex than the average guy.

Additionally women on average have a much better social safety net than men - they have lots of close girl friends who can give them reassurance and validation after a breakup/ in general - just check an average girl's facebook and for every compliment from a guy, you will find about 5 from her girlfriends alsong the lines of "omg gurl you so beautiful :* :* :* <3". Social validation doesn't have to come from the oposite gender - if most guys had a huge supportive social cycle to fall back on during rough times, it would already help with the suicide rate. (not only after breakups but in general - After losing their job, failing in school, etc.)

I never said sex wasn't important, just that it isn't a primary need like food or water - life without sex is clearly possible, even if it may be less enjoyable. Also I would argue that sex/validation by the oposite gender is less of a problem than the lack of social interaction and validation in general. Mental health issues are far more common and harder to overcome, if you don't have anyone to support you - something that seems way more prevalent in males than females these days.

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You make an approval seeking display of laughing

I like attention.

t people to support your arguments

There are lots of funny people on ppd, even when they're trying to talk about subjects like srs scientific science bio evolution stuff guis

you think metrosexual is a good thing

Why is metrosexual a bad thing? Should I be chopping down trees to feel masculine?

and you're okay with an 11 month dry spell because you're saving yourself for someone special.

I'm not saving myself for anyone special, dude. I have an unhealthy obsession with natural blondes with blue eyes/green 5'10'' and with a balls to the walls personality. How many of those are there in the world? Lol, and the few who exist, they have Chads around, so its a hard fight.

I don't lower my standards. Hence the dry spell. That and I don't really talk to girls these days. Occupied with other stuff.

Though, there's nothing wrong with it, for the record. You probably are above average. You just aren't what you claim.

What do I claim to be? Because I don't remember ever claiming to be Chad LOL

[–]Ercole--1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I like attention.

There are lots of funny people on ppd

I think everybody likes attention, but prefacing arguments with loud exclamations of disapproval and mockery is feminine.

Why is metrosexual a bad thing?

It's not bad. It's feminine.

Should I be chopping down trees to feel masculine?

Yes.

I'm not saving myself for anyone special, dude. I have an unhealthy obsession with natural blondes with blue eyes/green 5'10'' and with a balls to the walls personality. How many of those are there in the world? Lol, and the few who exist, they have Chads around, so its a hard fight.

This is clear-cut pedestalization of both women and the infamous Chad. Not only are you saving yourself for a little blue eyed girl, you're waiting your turn like a good boy.

What do I claim to be?

You claimed to have more testosterone than all of us combined, and in your pinky finger alone.

I don't doubt that you're well on your way, but you'd benefit from restudying and internalizing masculine mannerisms.

[–] OncleJulian 0 points 1 point 2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think everybody likes attention, but prefacing arguments with loud exclamations of disapproval and mockery is feminine.

What's wrong with feminity. Feminity makes the world go around!

It's not bad. It's feminine.

I just shower and shave, bro.

Yes.

Why? Lol

This is clear-cut pedestalization of both women and the infamous Chad. Not only are you saving yourself for a little blue eyed girl, you're waiting your turn like a good boy.

Yeah, that's actually right. Now that I think about it, I act like a little pussy with these blonde haired, blue eyes girls, even more if they are Germans. I take a long ass time to escalate. Hell, most of the time I take a really long time to dare to flirt them because I feel I don't want to bother them IDK. I'm intimidated by them. Because of their golden hair and blue eyes. They are my absolute ideal of female beauty and that makes me put the pussy on the pedestal haha.

You claimed to have more testosterone than all of us combined, and in your pinky finger alone.

Oh, that's true.If I don't shave I'll have a really thick full beard in less than 2 weeks. Its a hassle!

I don't doubt that you're well on your way, but you'd benefit from restudying and internalizing masculine mannerisms.

What are masculine mannerisms?

[–]Ercole--1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What's wrong with feminity. Feminity makes the world go around!

Yes it does. And we all have some. We have less though, when we have more testosterone.

Why? Lol

You don't have to become a stereotype, but chopping down trees is a balanced act of aggression and focus. Anything along those lines is conducive to masculinity.

What are masculine mannerisms?

In this context, talk like a man. Don't use emoticons and loud assertions of laughter unless it's actually a casual conversation or something was extremely funny. The way you do it sometimes is just a weak deflection attempt.

Otherwise, you might just be a badass for all I know. I'm just criticizing what I see and I know I ain't perfect either.

You should ask Atlas on the chat, she seems to know this stuff and I can't find any good lists.

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That shit is so outdated, lol. Talk to a modern psychologist, you know a guy who actually went to school and knows what he's talking about. Men do not need sex. No one needs sex. For reproduction, sure, but that's going to eventually be replaced. For a conductive, happy life? No. Sex is not necessary.

That's why not being wanted sexually feels so shitty.

No, that's because these kids live in the first world when not getting your dick sucked is the summit of all of their problems. In South America they are more worried about not being killed or raped by some drug cartel to wonder if they are ''sexually attractive'' or not.

Even psychologists rank it under "survival needs".

When my father was teaching me survival techniques he forgot to tell me to pack a pussy when I go camping in the wild to survive 😂😂

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But it is not analogous in the least bit. It would be analogous if it were sex instead of money. If I were to ask a woman for sex, even if she finds me unattractive, it is validating because regardless of what she thinks of me she gets the ego boost of knowing someone finds her attractive enough to mate with. I suppose I would find any sort of person asking me for money validating because even though I don't ever dole out money to beggars/gold diggers of any sort, it still makes me feel good because I take care of my appearance, present an image of success, and like to think they asked me because it looks like i have money to spare. It is possible to be both validated and annoyed at the same time. Also women enjoy sex, no? I don't think guys can orgasmically hemorrhage dopamine by giving away money.

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[–] hyperrreal Tolerable Shitposter [ M ] 4 points 5 points 6 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I mean, you literally lied. You straight up told me the comment contained content that it did not contain. I'm looking at it right now:

you provided a LEGAL DICTIONARY definition of the word marriage. you did NOT PROVIDE what i am askign for a LIST OF THE ELEMENTS OF CONTRACT AND AN EXPLANATION OF HOW US CIVIL MARRIAGE FITS THOSE ELEMENTS

i am a licensed attorney, i will do this for weeks, it will never end until the mods put a stop to it, ever, i will come back from the dead to continue this argumnt. you are wrong, two other attorneys on this sub have corroborated me over and over, you did not provide a LIST OF THE ELEMENTS OF A CONTRACT, you provided a legal dictionary definition of the word marriage. legal dictionary definitions are NOT THE LAW. i am TELLING you THE LAW.

please list the elements of a contract and explain how us civil law fits them

There is nothing personal about this comment. There is nothing uncivil about this comment. And there's no threat to stalk or harass you. Just her saying that she would never stop arguing with you. Where's the rule violation? Where's the threat to stalk you?

Oh right, it's not there.

[–] 5th_Law_of_Robotics 1 point 2 points 3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I mean, you literally lied. You straight up told me the comment contained content that it did not contain. I'm looking at it right now:

I mean I literally didn't. Vowing to follow someone around for weeks until forced to stop by authorities is harassment.

Do you really think harassment only exists when the harasser declares "I am harassing you" in a signed affidavit?

There is nothing personal about this comment. There is nothing uncivil about this comment. And there's no threat to stalk or harass you. Just her saying that she would never stop arguing with you. Where's the rule violation? Where's the threat to stalk you?

Oh right, it's not there.

Cool so I'll announce my intention to follow her around for weeks until forced to stop by the mods and you'll give your blessing?

/Not that I actually would, that's obsessive.

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[–] hyperrreal Tolerable Shitposter [ M ] 3 points 4 points 5 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

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[–] hyperrreal Tolerable Shitposter [ M ] 2 points 3 points 4 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–] 5th_Law_of_Robotics 1 point 2 points 3 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

And I was threatened with a ban for continuing an argument without even talking crazy like this.

So was Atlas.

Yes but see I was the one who reported her for spamming and harassing me.

You can ask that other mod to verify since you don't believe anything I say even with links.

As long as you were sticking to the issues, not personalizing things, and following the rules, why would care how long you want to argue with Atlas for? You can debate within our guidelines for the rest of your lives for all I care.

Because um, I was just threatened with a ban for responding to her even one more time despite following the rules.

But now that I have your blessing to continue arguing with every comment she makes (politely) over and over obsessively I expect no other mods will give me trouble for responding to her?

[–] hyperrreal Tolerable Shitposter [ M ] 2 points 3 points 4 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

You can ask that other mod to verify since you don't believe anything I say even with links.

That link doesn't say what you said. Perhaps there's another link that does. But not that one.

Because um, I was just threatened with a ban for responding to her even one more time despite following the rules.

So was she.

But now that I have your blessing to continue arguing with every comment she makes (politely) over and over obsessively I expect no other mods will give me trouble for responding to her?

Again, I don't think that's what she said. It seemed like she was saying she would never let that argument die. She would keep responding forever. Again, maybe there's some context I'm unaware of, but that alone is not the same things as threatening to stalk you, harass you, and follow you around the sub.

Those behaviors would be rule violations. Obsessively continuing an argument is certainly weird, but that in and of itself isn't against the rules.

[–] Atlas_B_Shruggin ✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew 2 points 3 points 4 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]darkmoon09 -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq. (woman) 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]darkmoon09 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

being hit on by more attractive guys is more validating than being hit on by ugly dudes, in general.

You don't seem to realize or appreciate that for so many women, "unattractive" men are pretty much anyone who doesn't fall within Chad level of attractiveness, there are so many guys who don't look like models but who also aren't butt ugly or deformed either; they're completely normal/average dudes but they still find themselves being rejected left and right by women who feel they deserve nothing less than a top Chad.

Can't imagine it's that different for guys is it?

You don't seem to understand men, it actually is different, even if we get hit on by women we don't find particularly attractive it still feels nice that we even got hit on at all, it still shows us that someone finds us attractive. Women on the other hand make it seem like being hit on by unattractive is akin or very close to being sexually harassed and they go ape shit over it. Men don't have that kind of reaction.

would it feel better to get hit on by hot girl or an ugly girl?

Again just being hit on at all is validating to guys, which is why many guys would be down to hookup with an ugly regardless if he'd rather hookup with a model.

Either way, however, it can still be uncomfortable, unwanted, and not validating at all.

That's on women. If they're going to be disgusted by the vast majority of guys out there and only hold out for Chads then they have no no one to blame but themselves.

[–]GinSmokeLies 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–] LeaneGenova Breaker of (comment) Chains [ M ] 0 points 1 point 2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–] GinSmokeLies 0 points 1 point 2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq. (woman) 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You don't seem to realize or appreciate that for so many women, "unattractive" men are pretty much anyone who doesn't fall within Chad level of attractiveness, there are so many guys who don't look like models but who also aren't butt ugly or deformed either; they're completely normal/average dudes but they still find themselves being rejected left and right by women who feel they deserve nothing less than a top Chad.

Yeah I disagree completely. Terper fantasy that only "Chad's" are attractive to women.

That's on women. If they're going to be disgusted by the vast majority of guys out there and only hold out for Chads then they have no no one to blame but themselves.

You are telling me it's "on me" when I feel uncomfortable when a guy hits on me - a married woman with a wedding ring? How exactly am I supposed to feel? Grateful I now have to awkwardly reject someone?

[–] darkmoon09 0 points 1 point 2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew 11 points12 points13 points 9 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

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[–] LeaneGenova Breaker of (comment) Chains 2 points 3 points 4 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–] LeaneGenova Breaker of (comment) Chains 2 points 3 points 4 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The reason I bring it up is that I have NEVER said that. I accept men's ratings of themselves, and I accept women's ratings of themselves. So for you to go on the tirade that you did implies that I either speak for women and BPers here, or that I have done so myself. Since I know I have never done so, I must assume it is the former.

I do think guys are often hard on themselves, looks wise. My SO is a solid 8, but insists he's a 4. I assume at this point it's the brain tumor, but that's a legitimately held belief. Because I see men in my life rate themselves so low, there is transference. Besides, I like men. I want them to be happy. Why wouldn't I tell them that they're more attractive than they think they are, when I believe so?

Now, the number of dudes running around in here claiming they're 10s does cause me to side-eye them. Sure, we could have literal male models running around in here, but I'm a biiit skeptical of that.

[–] 5th_Law_of_Robotics -1 points 0 points 1 point 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] aznphenix 1 point 2 points 3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] 5th_Law_of_Robotics 1 point 2 points 3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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But it is not analogous in the least bit. It would be analogous if it were sex instead of money. If I were to ask a woman for sex, even if she finds me unattractive, it is validating because regardless of what she thinks of me she gets the ego boost of knowing someone finds her attractive enough to mate with.

hahaha. This is so adorable. No, women get so much attention from men that attention past the initial stage of being 13 and being floored with attention becomes highly annoying.

Women aren't retarded. OK, the girls who didn't reject me must've had something wrong with them 🤔 and all of them know that dudes are throwing attention at any girl with the hopes she'll sleep with them, lol. That's not flattering.

Now, if an attractive(according to the girl's perception of what is attractive) man approached her and was charming and decent, yeah. She would feel hella flattered. But most guy's idea of approaching a girl is to send her a dick pic and then wait for a response, which never comes 🤣

I suppose I would find any sort of person asking me for money validating because even though I don't ever dole out money to beggars/gold diggers of any sort, it still makes me feel good because I take care of my appearance, present an image of success, and like to think they asked me because it looks like i have money to spare.

???? Dude, beggars even approach me and I got as much money as a newborn being born to a Jamaican couple in Jamaica 😂

t is possible to be both validated and annoyed at the same time. Also women enjoy sex, no? I don't think guys can orgasmically hemorrhage dopamine by giving away money.

Yes, women enjoy sex with men they find attractive and are attentive to their needs.

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If that were true, that women value men romantically and sexually as much as men value women: 1) women wouldn't be ending 70-80% of relationships, 2) lesbian relationships wouldn't have the highest break-up rates, 3) gay relationships wouldn't have the lowest, 4) male suicide rate after break-ups wouldn't be 10 times higher than the female suicide rate, 5) male depression rates after break-ups wouldn't be higher despite women having overall higher depression rates, and 6) female sexual desire wouldn't continuously decline corresponding directly to relationship length, whereas men's only declines slightly after the honeymoon phase.

Occam's razor that explains ALL of those is that female attraction is weaker and less stable than male attraction, and it also corresponds with evolutionary biology explanation of eggs = scarce and sperm = plentiful. Why do you think our sexual behavior is so predictable and so similar to related primate species?

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[–]YetAnotherCommenterDark Purple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Complete false equivalence.

For one, sex is not money. Unlike Red Pillers I don't think women get 'gina tingles over money - if women did, Bill Gates would be a sex symbol. Money and wealth are, arguably, "beta" in the sense that they make one attractive on a prudential level for a relationship. They aren't going to get one One Night Stands except from spermjackers or false-rape-accusers, unless they're paired with physical attractiveness and the like.

Second, male attention even from ugly men has its uses; this is what the 'beta orbiter' really is. Women can coast along with the tacit presumption that she's open to a romantic entanglement, whilst the beta orbiter responds to that tacit presumption and provides her with stuff.

Do ugly women buy men stuff, soothe their hurt feels, provide kindness and friendship and assistance when one is in need? No. The gender roles prescribe the opposite; the man must provide for the woman. Thus, ugly male attention may not provide a woman sexual validation but it provides her with resources (i.e. male agency she can enlist in her service). If ugly women tried to butter men up with gifts and willingness-to-white-knight then perhaps there would be equivalence.

But under the current dating model, you're making a false equivalence. The attention of ugly males represents potential benefit for women, even though these benefits aren't necessarily psychological validation.

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[–]Lyanina 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarkLord0chinChin 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lyanina 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarkLord0chinChin 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lyanina 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarkLord0chinChin 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (23 children) | Copy Link

And you haven't answered my questions.

This is an automod thread, so I'm not being completely serious.

Still,

"I want money, will you give me money?" "I want sex, will you give me sex?"

This analogy is incorrect because:

Women don't "give" sex. Sex is just something people do together.
Women don't lose anything when they have sex (Or do they?). When you give money you lose money.
There is still potential for desirable sex, which is completely neglected. Giving money is absolutely unacceptable. Being proposed sex can potentially be desirable.

So this is not actually an analogy even, just a poor attempt at a gender flip. If you accept this as a valid analogy you also have to accept the ramifications - like if you say the heart is a pump you have to accept that it moves fluids.

Also, how can you even compare a sexual context with a non-sexual context.. Literally apples to oranges

[–]Lyanina 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarkLord0chinChin 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

And as I said, the analogy is made relative to the validation felt by the person the demand is being made of.

Except you can't talk about validation when only one of your contexts provides it.. Like I can't imagine getting sexual validation in any way shape or form from giving money to women (attractive or not), these things are just too different to be compared like that.

Of course you're not going to feel validation from doing something nonsensical like that, but what makes you think this is an applicable analogy? I could come up with any nonsensical analogy I wanted, would you still think it's legit? I could say it's as validating as being asked to eat shit, can you disprove that this is not a proper analogy?

My analogy is just as good as yours:

Different contexts - sexual vs money vs eating shit. Check
Being asked to do something you don't want. Check

...

I guess the only thing your analogy is useful for is conveying feelings. I guess women really feel like they are losing money or eating shit when someone lesser than Chad dares to hit on them, huh!

Except feelings are not necessarily end all be all there is to a situation.. You can be disgusted by the fact that a thousand men want to fuck you, but you will still know that there exists a thousand men ready to fuck you next time you consider someone as a partner. And this is what the TRP position is about. Women have the ability to have thousands of men interested in them if they know how to use a smartphone.. A woman doubting her self-esteem can go to r/gonewild and post a picture of her body in underwear to get a thousand posters complimenting her and proposing marriage. They are all below her, of course, in fact having sex with them would be as pleasant as eating shit or throwing money away, but you know, ego boosted, self-esteem increased.

[–] Lyanina 1 point 2 points 3 points 9 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

It's not my analogy.

What makes you think this is an applicable analogy?

There are plenty of people wanting money. The fact that they want my money, as well as any number of random women's, is not validating.

There are plenty of people wanting sex. The fact that a random person wants sex with me, as well as with any number of random women, is not validating.

Women have the ability to have thousands of men interested in them if they know how to use a smartphone

Yes

A woman doubting her self-esteem can go to r/gonewild and post a picture of her body in underwear to get a thousand posters complimenting her and proposing marriage.

No. Because most women can do that. Being able to get something anyone else can get is not going to boost my self-esteem.

The thing is, TRP cannot at the same time claim most men have such low standards that they will fuck anyone, and claim that having a man desire sex with her is "validating" to a woman.

[–] GinSmokeLies 2 points 3 points 4 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–] Lyanina 2 points 3 points 4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] DarkLord0chinChin 0 points 1 point 2 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–] GinSmokeLies 1 point 2 points 3 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–] DarkLord0chinChin 0 points 1 point 2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–] GinSmokeLies 1 point 2 points 3 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If this is what it takes a woman to have sex, yes it is.

How? Why? Do you not think that part of being validated is feeling "special" in a way? If it's something practically everyone else in the world can achieve, how is it validating?

but women do often question their sexual attractiveness.

OK but here's the thing. Men, both here and IRL, always say that they can fuck just about any woman. In this thread men were all over the place saying if they were thirsty enough, they'd fuck anything, even an unattractive woman. A man wanting to fuck you doesn't mean you're sexually attractive, it means you're not actively repulsive to that particular man at the moment. Women aren't stupid, we know this. We've all heard men joke about "putting a paper bag over her head". Hell, I've heard that joke made about me.

Take a moment, step back, put on your red pill hat and consider how men and women are different in this regard. As a man, a woman wanting to fuck you probably means you're sexually attractive to her. So sure, that's validating. For a woman, a man wanting to fuck you might mean that, or it might just mean he's really drunk and you're a warm body, or he hasn't gotten laid in a really really long time and he's willing to slum it, or he wants a funny story to tell his friends.

Men don't get to go around saying they'll "fuck anything" and then say that a man wanting to fuck you means something. And maybe you're not one of the men making that claim, I don't know, but the amount of men here who do makes this argument completely ridiculous.

[–] DarkLord0chinChin 0 points 1 point 2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

How? Why? Do you not think that part of being validated is feeling "special" in a way? If it's something practically everyone else in the world can achieve, how is it validating?

Several ways:

Sex is a pleasurable experience. The fact that almost any woman can have sex and can orgasm from sex does not make having sex any less of a pleasurable experience. Being assured in your ability to get sex is then, validating.
Not everyone in the world can achieve that. For one, we're talking women. Reasonably young, healthy, attractive women. Not supermodels or pornstars. Being assured that you're still able to get a thousand men's attention is validating.

can fuck just about any woman.

Not too fat, not too old, and not too ugly.

they'd fuck anything, even an unattractive woman.

Depends on how exactly unattractive.

A man wanting to fuck you doesn't mean you're sexually attractive

It does, because very few men are that thirsty. I mean if there exists a man who will fuck even the Trigglypuff herself does it mean all male attention is worthless? False conclusion.

it means you're not actively repulsive to that particular man at the moment.

No it most likely means you're actively attractive.

We've all heard men joke about "putting a paper bag over her head". Hell, I've heard that joke made about me.

Sorry to hear that. You must have a nice body though

or it might just mean he's really drunk and you're a warm body

Ignore drunk men?

or he hasn't gotten laid in a really really long time and he's willing to slum it

What percentage of men are incels again?

or he wants a funny story to tell his friends.

lol, this one's made up.

Men don't get to go around saying they'll "fuck anything" and then say that a man wanting to fuck you means something.

Different men say different things

I don't know, but the amount of men here who do makes this argument completely ridiculous.

You are not trying to date the men here though, are you

[–] GinSmokeLies 2 points 3 points 4 points 9 years ago * (0 children) | Copy Link

Not too fat, not too old, and not too ugly.

Read the thread again. Men in that thread are saying if they're thirsty enough, they'll fuck any woman even if she's unattractive.

Sorry to hear that. You must have a nice body though

Hey thanks, it's true.

Ignore drunk men?

I do. But the men here insist on saying that a woman getting attention from drunk guys at bars is "validating." It isn't.

You seem to think I'm, like, complaining about getting attention. I'm not. It's a fact of life, it's whatever. I'm taking issue with the hypocrisy of the men here who claim they'd fuck anything with a pulse, then say a woman should feel special when a man wants to fuck her. (Again, that might not be you, and if it's not fair enough. But it DOES happen, and yes I've seen the same men say both these things.)

Here's the thing. I was fucking hideous for the first 2/3 of my life which is why I think I have a unique perspective on this. I know what it's like to never get attention or to only get negative attention, and I know what it's like to get sexual attention from men who aren't interested in anything else.

Here's a fun story that might help illustrate just how differently the genders see this. In college I met a friend of a friend and I developed a huge crush on him. This guy literally looked like someone went into my brain and designed the perfect man based on what they found there. He was also the closest thing to what RP calls "alpha" I think I've ever met IRL. He was the bass player in a successful band, physically imposing but suave and charming, a bit arrogant, gave off a "idgaf" attitude... just a REALLY fucking hot guy. And every time we were in the same place, he flirted with me. We even made out once and he tried to take it further and I turned him down, even though I had an enormous crush on him that went beyond the physical. You know why? Because I knew how he was, I knew he'd slept with almost every other girl at that party at some point, and I knew that since he was in a touring band and lived in another state we were never going to have anything other than sex. With that guy I was even pretty positive he actually was attracted to me (I'd grown out of my ugly phase by then), but sex with him still would not have been validating because I knew the next night he'd be doing the exact same thing with another girl, and probably one much prettier than me. Women want to feel special, and that would not have made me feel special - it would have made me feel cheap and used.

Now, if he had said "I'm going to move to Texas and be your boyfriend because I really really like you," I would have said "Okay!" and had sex with him then and there, because I would have believed him, because I was a dumbass at the time. Once the inevitable happened and he didn't become my hot bass player boyfriend, that experience would no longer be validating, but embarrassing and heartbreaking.

Point is - I'm going to bet that you can't imagine a scenario where a woman you consider pretty much physically perfect tries to have sex with you and you turn it down because doing it would make you feel gross and used. This is the difference between men and women. I may not be able to explain the "why" of it, but trust me on this. We do not feel the same way about sex that you do.

[–] [deleted] 2 points 3 points 4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] WavesAcross 2 points 3 points 4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] Lyanina 2 points 3 points 4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The interesting parts of PPD are when red and blue can agree on things, however small that thing might be.

That ChinChin can't recognize this would be a good example of male solipsism. Many men are in a position where any attention at all is validating, so think the same of women.

That's probably accurate.

Obviously the attention of most men is not validating. Whats would be validating is attention from men who have options.

I see what you mean and I think you're right, but I wouldn't have phrased it like that. I'd say attention from a man who would give that same attention to any pussy that walked by isn't validating.

Examples: A guy I know well enough telling me he has a crush on me/asking me out is more validating to me (even if I don't reciprocrate the interest) than some stranger catcalling me like he'd catcall another girl. My boyfriend calling me "his girlfriend" or telling me he loves me is more validating to me than some stranger getting on his knees to ask me to marry him. The "stranger" cases aren't validating at all to me, because there's no reason to believe it's about me at all, just about the guy's desperation/thirst (this sort of goes back to your "what would be validating is attention from men who have options"). If any other woman could do, it's just not validating to me.

And yes, I realize that for men this can sound extremely entitled (me me me!) because of what you've said, that men get attention so rarely it is by default validating to them. I'm not saying it's fair, just explaining how I feel. And ultimately, "validation" is about the feelings of the person involved. Which is why I got into that disagreement in the first place; we were both looking at how we would experience the situation.

[–] DarkLord0chinChin 0 points 1 point 2 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

You are wrong to assume that only the things that other women cannot achieve can be validating.

I guess this is your female nature speaking? Hypergamous, status-seeking, gold / jewel-loving?

The thing is, TRP cannot at the same time claim most men have such low standards that they will fuck anyone, and claim that having a man desire sex with her is "validating" to a woman.

The claim is that women have inflated SMV now compared to what it was before Tinder and Internet became mainstream.

You cannot disprove that women (and men) had a much smaller pool of people to choose from. TRP claims that because women want only the best men, merely having the potential to choose from so many men will dramatically inflate their own value.

Also, not all women do use these things. While most women certainly could, only some actually go and do it. And when they see how many of their SMV equals are among the crowd of a thousand thirsty men, they think "shit, I can do better than that"

[–] Lyanina 1 point 2 points 3 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

You are wrong to assume that only the things that other women cannot achieve can be validating.

Why? If it's something almost every woman can do, why is it validating? What definition of "validating" are we using here?

Hypergamous, status-seeking, gold / jewel-loving?

Sure, I like gold. I have a gold ring on my finger as I type this. And if hypergamous means I like attractive people, yes to that too. If hypergamous means "marrying up," you're going to have to define "up." As for status, you'll have to define that for me as well if you want an answer.

Having inflated SMV is not the same thing as feeling "validated." SMV is determined by other people's desire for you, and the quality of other available options. Men's higher thirst means women have a higher SMV. I'm not arguing against that. We've strayed from the topic here.

[–] DarkLord0chinChin 0 points 1 point 2 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]BPremiumMeh 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Lower your standards to the floor, and imagine never being approached or hit on and actually having to do that yourself ad nauseum. Now imagine getting rejected by 99% of those attempts. Up your sex drive 20x more as well, a constant thumping in the back of your mind.

Now take that picture and compare it to the one women complain about. How getting so much attention for merely existing, to the point its annoying. Then saying its only acceptable from a small portion of those that are deemed attractive, which is different for every member. Add on that it's only appropriate to show said interest whenever that person decides it is, which is in constant flux and changes based on who's approaching.

So viewing it from that lens, it would be validating to be in that 90% because on the other side of the fence, only maybe 10% on that side get any attention at all, while you really really really want attention.

Do you see know?

[–]GinSmokeLies 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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Those are two separate things that you are conflating. SMV does not matter in relationship to the attention she finds validating. Men above her SMV may be unattractive to her, and thus their attention is not welcomed. You've decided to lump two different RP concepts into one for some bizarre reason.

If women didn't receive this attention, maybe they would like. But since they do receive it they don't like it. It's not a front, it's a genuine dislike for an annoyance in their life. Much like traffic on the road.

And no, it's not a strawman. I see RP men constantly insisting that women like something that women clearly demonstrate that they don't like, for reasons that are so attenuated that they stopped having a rational basis long ago. And I see men throughout this thread arguing that women like it, so really, I'm mocking male solipsism more than anything.

[–]DarkLord0chinChin 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Those are two separate things that you are conflating. SMV does not matter in relationship to the attention she finds validating. Men above her SMV may be unattractive to her, and thus their attention is not welcomed. You've decided to lump two different RP concepts into one for some bizarre reason.

I can't quite grasp what is your point here, but let's pretend it's that "I don't know what I'm talking about". I think I know better, but whatever

If women didn't receive this attention, maybe they would like. But since they do receive it they don't like it. It's not a front, it's a genuine dislike for an annoyance in their life. Much like traffic on the road.

This is another strawman. I am not talking about "liking" or "not liking", I am talking about the well-known TRP argument of women having inflated SMV due to receiving so much attention from things like Tinder and Internet.

And no, it's not a strawman. I see RP men constantly insisting that women like something that women clearly demonstrate that they don't like, for reasons that are so attenuated that they stopped having a rational basis long ago. And I see men throughout this thread arguing that women like it, so really, I'm mocking male solipsism more than anything.

So according to you TRP says women like being approached by unattractive men? Too bad I missed that :D

Maybe TRP says that women receive validation from it and their egos and SMV become inflated and they fail to see their SMV equals as viable partners as a result instead?

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Title	Question4Men: Would you feel validated if unattractive women wanted you to give them money for nothing in return
Author	Electra_Cute
Upvotes	7
Comments	439
Date	February 20, 2017 3:37 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/5v55vp/question4men_would_you_feel_validated_if/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/question4men-would-you-feel-validated-if.269985 https://theredarchive.com/post/269985

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