Drunk sex, consent and the tattoo analogy.

Electra_Cute · 2017-08-30T16:52:03+00:00

I am shocked there is no megathread for the sexual consent topic yet.

According to the folks here it was her choice to have sex so it shouldn't be his responsibility to make sure if she can even walk straight anymore

Here is a question for you: Would you walk around a high crime rate area at 11:00 PM alone covered in clearly expensive clothing, accessories etc? If you do get robbed, it is not your fault entirely, but you need to take some partial blame for it.

So if an individual goes to a party, decides to drink and takes zero precautions, and another individual decides to sexually assault them, it is not their fault entirely, but they really are creating an incentive and putting themselves in a precarious situation, do not put your personal safety in the complete hands of a stranger.

SOME PEOPLE DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL SAFETY OR WELL BEING, really understand that. What if the tattoo artist does not care it is illegal? Do you really think that intoxicated or aroused people care that much? Do you know how powerful the atavistic drive to have sexual intercourse is? Do you know what alcohol does to the brain and how it effects decision making? Do you know how people act, not everyone is "good" and will look out for you, if you think that, you are naive and one day reality is going to push you down and you will not be ready for it.

nicethingyoucanthave · 2017-08-30T16:37:37+00:00

too drunk to even know where she is

provide a citation or this is just another case of you arguing against a strawman.

RockinSocksII · 2017-08-30T17:20:36+00:00

I thought the reason they wouldnt do it is because alcohol can act as a blood thinner.

TheChemist158 · 2017-08-30T20:05:33+00:00

Just how drunk is too drunk for consensual sex is an important yet neglected point in this conversation. Your scenario puts her too drunk to walk or know where she is. Reds often go to the other exteme of saying she just had a sip of wine. I'd wager that most people here could agree that a passed out drunk woman cannot consent, and a woman who only had a small amount of alcohol can consent. I'm just saying, bear this in mind. It's a gradient, not a binary state.

Personally, I think the woman has to be very drunk to lose her ability to consent. As in, cannot understand what is happening. How we are starting to look at rape is extremely fucked up. It's getting to the point where of it was traumatic to the woman it is considered rape. And then we run of to throw a guy in jail. But we shouldn't be throwing people in jail because they hurt another person's feeling. We should lock them away if they are a threat to society. Most men who sleep with drunk women aren't being malicious. They do not seek to hurt them. They are innocent, they doubt physically harm and it's not like the woman is showing signs of emotional distress at the time. You would be putting an innocent man in jail. I've done my fair share of drinking and I know that there is a wide window where you are distinctly drunk but still had agency.

And in terms of your analogy, it's easy. The law's stupid. You should be held accountable for all actions you do while do, tattoos included.

Tell_them_to_shrug · 2017-08-30T16:54:48+00:00

How is it the fault of the tattoo artist if some drunk person makes a mistake?

It's not.

Why can they sue him for damages if they themselves drunkenly decided to get tattooed?

Because they have free will. I can sue for anything.

Shouldn't it be his right to take advantage of drunk people because he needs the money?

It's absolutely his right.

ThirdEyeSqueegeed · 2017-08-30T20:19:03+00:00

You're making out that it's a predatory male seeking drunk women, which does happen, but what most of us are talking about is a drunk man and a drunk woman having sex. If the man is also drunk, his judgement will also be greatly impaired so why should he be the sole person responsible for the drunken act?

OfSpock · 2017-08-30T20:23:55+00:00

What do you do if the tattoo artist is drunk as well? They both drink together, the drunk person wants a tattoo, the drunk tattoo artist says "sure!" and they start tattooing. Who is at fault?

I like the analogy though, in the drunk/not-drunk dynamic it's very relevant and I agree with it.

kunlangeta · 2017-08-30T19:15:48+00:00

First of all, tattoo parlors are a business. Its logical that there be more rules for businesses than regular human interaction.

Second, what is penalty for breaking such laws? Is it criminal or civil?

Third, significant percent of population had drunk sex at one point in their life. I don't think total number of people with tattoos even comes close to that number and drunks getting tattoos are just a small subset (I imagine, I don't have any real data on tattoos). It is bullshit to make a law that criminalizes something that, for most people, is normal behavior (drunk sex).

And lastly, drunk sex laws are discriminatory bullshit. Men drink more than women. It would be logical that a lot of drunk men get "raped" under that laws, yet I fail to see cases of women put behind bars.

Christian_Kong · 2017-08-30T19:50:51+00:00

I know a few people that own cheap tattoo guns. Sometimes they get drunk with friends and end up getting/giving shitty tattoos as a result. That is a better example.

If there was some sort of (legal)prostitution law about drunk clients, your analogy would fit better.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2017-08-30T22:34:40+00:00

Now compare this to tattooing or piercing someone. If someone who's clearly drunk walks into a tattoo parlor and asks for some ink they will be sent out again because the law (in some states like Texas) prohibits the tattooing or body piercing of persons under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

I'd like to just point out that this has nothing to do with consent. They will turn you away because alcohol is a blood thinner, and they don't want you bleeding everywhere.

Doom_and-Gloom · 2017-08-30T22:09:40+00:00

Is there a law prohibiting people from consenting to sex while drunk, Johnny Bravo?

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purpleppp · 2017-08-30T16:47:39+00:00

That's not a good analogy to make when it comes to US law. Most states have no restrictions on intoxication in their tattoo laws. You don't want this to apply to rape.

The threshold for legal incapacitation may be higher than 'walking straight,' but I'm not sure.

Edit: I've seen a better analogy made with boxing. But I still don't like it. It would entail viewing sex as prima facie an assault unless proven otherwise.

Macheako · 2017-08-30T18:16:01+00:00

You're a fucking manipulative ass hole, that's what I think. You know GODDAMN WELL this is a different scenario.

What about if the tattoo artist was drunk himself, THEN what?

Sex ISNT A BUSINESS you dip shit. Guys aren't "buying pussy" from these women, nor are these women "buying cock" from the men.

How about you give an HONEST argument for once in your goddamn propaganda filled bull shit life here on Purple Pill Debate?

EVERYTHING YOUVE EVER POSTED HAS BEEN A MANIPULATIVE LIE OR TWIST. How bout you try for once?

artietx · 2017-08-31T13:43:11+00:00

Sorry, but the analogy is bad. Is there a low that forbids drunk sex in any form? No. Is it possible that she had drunk sex and won't accuse anyone of rape? Yes. In that very thread someone was saying that if she's tipsy it's ok or something along the lines. Now is tattooing prohibited under any degree of influence? Or is it legal if a person is like drunk but not too much and knows or thinks that he knows what he's doing, etc?

boredthenyoureboring · 2017-08-30T21:50:37+00:00

Ok so I looked up the laws in my state, all this is going to be based on those. Tattooing someone you can "reasonably assume" is intoxicated is a misdemeanor. Forcibly holding someone down and tattooing them against their will would be felony assault

Sexual assault is a felony. Period. The laws here actually don't seem to mention anything about intoxication, which may be different elsewhere. I think a lot of the disagreement goes back to this. Combined that with intoxication being poorly defined(basing this more on rhetoric in "teach men not to rape" campaigns since I have not read the laws in states that include intoxication) and it sounds like you're being told that having sex with a girl that isn't stumbling or slurring her words or is physically incapacitated in any way, makes you JUST as bad as someone that holds a girl at knife point. Even if you're as drunk or drunker than she is. Even if she's fully aware of her actions or even made the first move.

statsfodder · 2017-08-31T00:07:54+00:00

If i walk into a biker bar in ass-less chaps and a tutu. Is it my fault I get beaten up or the fault of the "violent" bikers??

I know nothing of american suburbs or gang signs but do you think gangbangers are going to have a polite chat with me if I go walking through a neighbourhood throwing my hands up as if i were making gang signs? Would it be their fault or mine if i got shot?

If i go to a BLM rally or a femmenazi march and say "white men rule" should i complain when they try to fight me??

In those 3 situations I had no business being there and quite rightly you could argue i was an idiot to go there BUT the same can't be said of a drunk woman in a short skirt deciding to stumble down a dark alley? Or get black out drunk at a frat party??

Somewhere along the line people have to be responible for their decisions.

super-commenting · 2017-08-31T00:37:34+00:00

If they're sober enough to walk into the tattoo parlor and ask for a tattoo they're sober enough to consent and they have no right to claim to have been victimized by the tattoo artist. Any law that says otherwise is a bad law. Now if they were carried into the tattoo parlor and didn't know what was happening that would be different. Sex is the same way. If they know what's happening they can consent. The vast majority of the time if someone is conscious they are aware if someone is trying to have sex with them, it's hard to miss even if you're really drunk.

[deleted] · 2017-09-01T20:24:22+00:00

According to the folks here it was her choice to have sex

If she wants to have sex, it's not rape. There is no need for any more text.

Title	Drunk sex, consent and the tattoo analogy.
Author	BiggerDthanYou
Upvotes	8
Comments	133
Date	August 30, 2017 4:32 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6x0bwo/drunk_sex_consent_and_the_tattoo_analogy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/drunk-sex-consent-and-the-tattoo-analogy.266241 https://theredarchive.com/post/266241

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