facts about gender equality

SpiderEternal · 2014-04-21T14:38:55+00:00

Let me just say guys, that it makes me happy to see this sub maintaining consistency and pointing out the major flaws in infographics like these, even though they're clearly in "mens' favor."

MrsAnonymousMan · 2014-04-21T12:45:05+00:00

The second chart is misleading. The chart makes it look like there is huge disparity caused by mothers being less important (or worse) as parents, when in reality most of the disparity is in the number of single parent homes which have mothers.

WunderBoss · 2014-04-21T13:07:31+00:00

This started out strong.... but then dropped into the realm of purposefully misleading. We don't want to go there.

Bortron14 · 2014-04-21T13:03:15+00:00

Some of that is pretty misleading. For example the 30% number is based only on those that chose to have a paternity test; it leads the reader to believe that 30% could apply to the whole population. Usually if you are having a paternity test done it is because the child's paternity is already in question, meaning you are going to have a far greater chance of naming the wrong father. I hypothesize that if paternity tests were mandatory that number would drop significantly, probably to less than 10% in most societies.

lamamafia · 2014-04-21T14:06:29+00:00

Those are the types of arguments this sub has flamed feminists of doing.

The endogeneity is pretty strong in a lot of those statistics. Why do people test for paternity? Because they already have doubts about it. For prison sentence, maybe it's because the crimes are more severe? What about finding the average sentence when comparing equal crimes, like premeditated murder vs premeditated murder, robbery vs robbery, etc.

Those are the kind of posts that give a bad name to /r/mensrights IMO.

2014-04-21T16:50:11+00:00

I'm glad this post is getting called out. This is the sort of thing that starts MRA vs. Feminist debates or men vs. women. We're two sides of the same coin, no need to make it a battle of who's "more oppressed," or use misleading information to make a point about change that isn't actually necessary. This subreddit gets a ridiculous amount of shit, we need to all be very thoughtful in what we post if we want this to be taken seriously.

Unaccounted · 2014-04-21T14:51:22+00:00

I just posted the image here, from a site similar to reddit. Thought you guys would like it. But it seems like the graph is all wrong :/ so yea sorry for that.

MattClark0994 · 2014-04-21T12:21:05+00:00

There are FAR more issues than just these you know. For example, despite the fact that women outpace men in pretty much every health category they still have 7 National health offices dedicated to them, as well as over a 100 other Federal level programs and laws.

And then there is this 22,000 word list. We menz sure are "privileged"

CaptainAirstripOne · 2014-04-21T13:12:15+00:00

Aren't many of these differences - such as suicide, deaths due to dangerous jobs, and child custody - a matter of personal choice? If the wage gap is deemed to be a non-issue because it's largely due to the personal choice made by women to stay at home and raise children, then these must also be non-issues, otherwise there's a double standard.

Astiolo · 2014-04-21T16:01:21+00:00

I love how the top rated comments are all pointing out how misleading this is. It shows integrity when the members of a movement will point out problems with statistics, even when the stats could help the movement if they were believed.

DarkStrobeLight · 2014-04-21T22:57:42+00:00

I wish I could share these info-graphics that keep coming up, but every time somone calls out the sources. Why can't we get a chart with only peer reviewed sources? It's not that I don't appreciate the work, or believe the results, but if I'm to have any chance of standing my ground with these, it shouldn't be so easy to cal out...

QueenSpicy · 2014-04-21T14:13:23+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2014-04-21T16:20:40+00:00

There are pros and cons to everything.

Regardless of your chromosomes.

Kickedbk · 2014-04-21T18:44:08+00:00

I feel like these types of charts would get further if, along with men's inequality issues, some facts about women's were also included. It may show MRA's are truly advocating for gender equality. Thoughts?

2014-04-21T21:42:26+00:00

30% of fathers who paternity test find they are not the father.

holy fuck, that is depressing

AmericanEngineer · 2014-04-22T00:34:00+00:00

We do have classes of gender studies about men, only they're called history classes.

DramaDramaLlama · 2014-04-21T18:25:26+00:00

Inequality in some things is not indicative of prejudice.

elenapli · 2014-04-21T13:34:01+00:00

As other have said these charts are misleading. Just raw statistics with no context don't really indicate much. I am sorry some feminist believe sexism only affects women but it affects both men and women in different ways. Also just because men have privilege doesn't mean they don't have disadvantages. It should be pointed out that many of these disadvantages are a result of the patriarchy's view of men not feminism. Like in child custody cases, which I believe needs to have some reform but it is the patriarchy view that women are more nurturing and that is why they win most cases.

Ridergal · 2014-04-22T04:05:08+00:00

One of the problems with the first table is that it refers to "divorce initiators", meaning who when to their lawyer first and filed the paperwork to start the divorce proceeding. That's less important than who initiated the separation, and the divorce could occur years after the separation. In fact, some single parents never get divorced because they never got married to begin with.

The other problem is the statistic that women get sole custody of children more often than men, however, there is no analysis of whether that indicates unfairness within the family courts. For example, in the same table it indicates that men are more likely to spend time in jail and for longer periods. So, if a judge had to award custody between two parents, one of whom was in jail and the other who was not, who would you think the judge would award custody to?

intensely_human · 2014-04-22T13:16:44+00:00

Great work! I'd recommend removing the last thing about 30% of named fathers later discovering they're not the real father. The rest of the infographic is a side-by-side comparison of data between the sexes, but the last one just stands on its own, breaking format.

Letator · 2014-04-21T21:34:39+00:00

Poorly made, misleading in places. It fails to illustrate reasons for and the implications of the numbers. It's like: Here are some things that suck. Therefore, discrimination.

rainbowsforall · 2014-04-21T22:35:58+00:00

Of the top 15 leading causes of death, men lead in 12 categories, are tired in two and trial in one. Even though more women die of heart disease each year, men die of heart disease many years earlier.

Okay that's interesting, but what does that have to do with gender inequality? Absolutely nothing unless you link it to lower quality healthcare for men (that's just an example) or some other factor. Why is this the way it is? If it has something to do with men being treated unfairly then tell us what it is. Without that information this mean nothing in terms of equality.

51.52 months average sentence for men and 18.51 months average sentence for women. Alright that's interesting as well. But does it account for factors such as women committing less highly violent crime that would normally result in higher sentences? That statistic doesn't mean much unless you directly compare sentence between genders for specific crimes.

I'm all for informing people of gender inequality but this kind of shoddy use of statistics is not the way to do it. We are better than this.

aknownunknown · 2014-04-21T13:33:51+00:00

It would be great if this infographic was available for the UK

ebonlance · 2014-04-21T14:25:39+00:00

The prison sentence thing I'm pretty sure is true as there have been studies that demonstrate even for the same crime men get sentenced worse, but I don't like the way it's presented here. I think instead of averaging out prison sentences for different crimes we should put out a couple of them on a crime-by-crime basis so it's a better comparison, lest we be guilty of the "77 cents" bullshit we always make fun of.

AlongAustower · 2014-04-21T16:24:50+00:00

I think it's interesting how most here are scrutinizing the claims in this post. Compare that with feminists who wouldnt dare question an info-pic so long as its conclusion was 'women are oppressed......BY MEN!' And these same women usually have prestigious collage degrees and fly all over the country giving talks.

I guess it works with most things though. The more accepted an idea becomes the less scrutiny the idea gets. And the more those who oppose or question the idea are silenced.

its_all_one_word · 2014-04-21T16:34:48+00:00

I agree with a lot the statements on here, particularly that we need to draw attention to male workplace deaths/injuries, prison sentencing, custody discrimination, and studies on discrimination against males.

What I disagree with is the posting of violence against men because I think it is hard to measure whether men are more likely to be the victim of an unprovoked violent crime than a woman is, or to what degree the disproportionate male violence against men can be partially explained by facts like that men are way more likely to join gangs than women. I also would like to know why 2/3rds of divorces are initiated by women. I know there is convincing evidence that women expect things like money in a relationship, but there are also reasons women can be unhappy. Hope Edelman wrote in an essay called "The Myth of Co-Parenting" that she and her husband went through a time when he created a start-up and expected her to just reduce her hours at her job and then subsequently quit to take care of their daughter that they both wanted, but he didn't even ask her how she felt. She mentioned that one of the reasons they married in the first place was that they both wanted a parent for their child. Also, sexual acts are often unsatisfying for women in this culture because a sex act is defined as PIV sex with the man orgasming at the end. Only 25% of women have orgasmed from PIV sex even once, and yet anecdotal evidence from Bill Clinton along with several other scientific studies show that things that actually do get women off--like oral sex--are not viewed as "sex" and are not considered intimate. This can lead to women wanting to leave their husbands because their husbands might be selfish lovers. I don't think this is 100% proof or that these two cases explain the huge gap in divorces. I just don't think we should assume that women leave their husbands because they are taught to expect too much from a marriage or because they married a paycheck and then their husbands lost their jobs (although this certainly does happen some of the time. Fortunately for my dad, not in my family, though.)

Homeboy_Jesus · 2014-04-21T18:21:43+00:00

You should be careful about that sentencing statistic. It's analogous to the "77 cents/dollar" stat that feminists make because it doesn't account for a bunch of different things including: offense severity, tendency to bargain with prosecutors, recidivism, etc.

I will say though that there is a study by Sonja Starr called Estimating Gender Disparities in Federal Criminal Cases that analyzes the pertinent differences. The study shows that once you account for the differences, the difference in sentencing falls to 63% as opposed to the 278% increase that is shown in the infographic.

U2_is_gay · 2014-04-21T18:53:32+00:00

It would seem to me that so many women are initiating divorce and winning custody because apparently so many men are rapists with anger problems and behavior disorders.

konoplya · 2014-04-21T20:55:12+00:00

according to this (from my understanding), men make better parents in single parent households, then why don't they get custody more?

_bount · 2014-04-21T21:09:00+00:00

I think the way this chart is displayed is a bit biased but I agree with the point it makes. It's not some patriarchy that is exclusively oppressing women, it's gender roles that are gradually becoming unnecessary and unfair for everyone. It definitely effects men though, in a way which is often ignored. Like people will go on and on about how the Disney princesses have to be all perfect and feminine and have a husband, but no one says anything about how men are somehow obligated to save this princess, risking his life and slaying some dragon, and then give her all the pretty dresses and jewels she wants for the rest of her life.

aslutrifles · 2014-04-21T23:52:12+00:00

"More black people than white people in prison? Institutional racism!"

"More men than women in prison? Well, duh, men commit more crime!"

Hamakua · 2014-04-21T16:39:18+00:00

That 30% not the father figure is very dishonest and should be removed.

It's

"Of those who SUSPECT to not being the father, after testing, it's about 30%"

The actual number is not yet known, I do believe the more widely accepted number is far too low (it's like 5%) but I know the criteria by which they got the 30% figure and as it is represented in the graph it is false. It also tarnishes the rest of the data by association.

Man woman myth video on it.

Part II

Title	facts about gender equality
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	715
Comments	119
Date	April 21, 2014 9:49 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/23kv7i/facts_about_gender_equality/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/facts-about-gender-equality.1001467 https://theredarchive.com/post/1001467

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