Can I be a Men's Rights activist and a Feminist at the same time?

OuiCrudites · 2012-08-24T04:45:39+00:00

I don't think you should be so hung up in labels. I stand for everyone's rights, liberty, and opportunity. I don't need a label for that.

If you must identify as a feminist, please try to educate yourself about the hate & supremacism within the feminist movement, including the tremendous efforts that they put into bashing men and non-feminist women, removing our rights, and grabbing more privilege for themselves.

neilthecoder · 2012-08-24T04:13:41+00:00

While many here are against feminism for various reasons, nothing in the movement requires you to choose one.

At the end of the day, "feminist" and "MRA" are just labels you apply to yourself, and what really matters are the issues you believe in and fight for.

hardwarequestions · 2012-08-24T04:19:44+00:00

Only feminists believe in the right to choose?

Tell me, what things do you support that only feminism supports, and not other large parts of society?

For me, that's why I identify as an MRA, because no other group is out there advocating for the things this movement does. Meanwhile, the tenets of traditional feminism have largely already been adopted by the rest of society.

I guess I'm saying you can certainly be both, but I really don't understand why you'd consider yourself a feminist anymore.

alecbenzer · 2012-08-24T12:28:58+00:00

If by "men's rights activist and a feminist" you mean "a gender egalitarian", then there's no contradiction there. Honestly I think everyone would be a lot better off if we just did away with the MRM and feminism and just had gender egalitarianism.

2012-08-24T09:54:29+00:00

The idea of patriarchy flies in the face of human rights and in gender equality. It basically says, men are guilty and will always be guilty in the suppression of rights for males and females and in particular women.

It grants men privileges the majority of men don't have, will never have, and will never benefit from. It asserts, tautologically, that this justifies any amount of sexism and unjust social engineering is ok, ti be promoted and sought out, and moreover, this can never be wrong - even when it is wrong - because patriarchy is even more wrong.

I don't think one can believe in patriarchy and be for rights of any kind. I think of patriarchy the way I think of social Darwinism and eugenics, in that you can't promote either without being a bigot of some kind who denies the value of the 'other'.

That said, you can be an mrm if you believe in equality in terms of rights AND obligations. You can be an mrm if you think agency is paramount, and everyone is accountable for their actions, and the use of the term 'victim' cannot be used as a justification or excuse for bad behavior.

It's the obligation and duty aspect of rights where men and women talk past one another. And in the end, I think the mrm is already a bit of a fossil, in that, for one movement to really advance the cause of human rights you need to stop having an outgroup by default. That is, men's rights, like feminism, automatically discounts the opposite in it's definition.

Anyhow. If your goal is to fight for the rights of men and women wherever something unjust pops up, welcome to the mrm. As we say, men's rights are human rights.

imbecile · 2012-08-24T07:42:19+00:00

Feminism isn't a women's rights movement. Feminism is an ideology centered around the dogma of partriarchy.

In a way, saying that feminism is women's rights activism, and the only women's rights activism is feminism is like saying church is charity, and the only charity is church.

Actually the very word feminism (and the associated ideological underpinnings) only became common after most of the specific laws and policies that were discriminatory to women were already abolished in the west, and they began to focus on introducing laws and policies that were discriminatory to men.

So, you surely can be a women's rights activist and a men's rights activist at the same time. Being a feminist, really taking feminist ideology to be true, I think is incompatible. The men's rights movement doesn't really have an equivalent ideological background. And I hope it never will.

oneiorosgrip · 2012-08-24T11:29:02+00:00

From my perspective as a female who has watched male friends and family (including my husband and son) suffer under the oppressive rule of the practical application of feminist advocacy (not what feminists who visit here asking why we can't all just get along claim is feminist advocacy, but what feminist organizations like NOW actually LOBBY for) I give you an unequivocal NO. You cannot be both an MRA and what a feminist actually is. You can be an egalitarian, call your self both an MRA and a feminist, feel better for wearing both labels, and avoid criticism from those around you who wear one or the other... but that would be dishonest.

As for the goals of the MRM, scroll down past the subreddit links on the right.
From the sidebar: Anti-Male Legislation Roundup
and
A list of the ways in which men are discriminated against.
not from the sidebar but totally relevant: For every 100 girls

There are a lot of things which need to be undone. Most of all, just being male needs to be decriminalized. However, the active, most currently fought for goal of the MRM is for men to be recognized and treated as human beings, equal to women, with equal value and equal rights... because right now, that is not how things are in the world. And feminists are fighting that effort tooth and nail... which takes us right back to my initial answer of no.

edit: formatting

BrSy · 2012-08-24T05:05:52+00:00

First take a look at how much feminists actually rally against the causes of MRM (men's parental and reproductive rights, male genital mutilation, gender-selective military draft etc.).

After you've done that ask the question from yourself.

2012-08-24T04:56:23+00:00

I think I would call you a human rights activist.

nlakes · 2012-08-24T07:24:08+00:00

The things you quote for feminism that you're for, so is the MRM. The right to choose, the right to be judged on merit alone).

There are things in feminism though that are anti-MRM, i.e. all men are guilty of contributing to 'rape culture'.

mayonesa · 2012-08-24T04:42:06+00:00

Generally though, I'm a proponent of gender equality and non-discrimination for all.

Then you should call yourself an egalitarian and be done with it.

AryoBarzan · 2012-08-24T08:37:39+00:00

In short, no.

What separates feminism and the MRM are the THEORIES which each entity holds. Feminism is chalk full of social-science theory like "patriarchy" and "male privilege" which is VERY detrimental to men and men's rights. Very few MRA's (as you'll find here) are against "a womans right to choose" or, non-politcally, abortion. However, abortion is actually more of a issue of morality rather than just a straight 'womans issue'.

atlas720 · 2012-08-24T06:01:19+00:00

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truthman2000 · 2012-08-24T07:58:14+00:00

Absolutely not. Feminism is a thoroughly anti-male ideology.

The title of the sub-reddit used to explicitly acknowledge feminism's anti-male role until the pro-feminist (and thus anti-male) mods changed it in response to feminists' demands.

rapiertwit · 2012-08-24T09:37:23+00:00

Thought this was sort of applicable: Reg: If you want to join the People's Front of Judea, you have to really hate the Romans. Brian: I do! Reg: Oh yeah, how much? Brian: A lot! Reg: Right, you're in.

rapiertwit · 2012-08-24T12:32:53+00:00

You can participate in whatever activism your conscience demands. There's no membership card that anyone can give you, or take away. I, for one, welcome solidarity with anyone who cares about even one issue. If you think unnecessary infant circumcision is wrong, but you think every single other issue brought up on this sub is bullshit and we should shut up about them, I'd welcome your support on the one issue we agreed on.

DavidByron · 2012-08-24T14:34:09+00:00

You can't be a decent human being and a feminist at the same time. That's what you need to be more concerned about. Feminism is an anti-male hate movement. Feminists work to make things less equal and for example are lobbying for discrimination in law. They are constantly spreading disgusting lies attacking men and spreading hatred between men and women.

I also agree with points of feminism (woman's right to choose, etc.)

Feminists oppose a man's right to chose. They don't support women's rights because they support human rights. So far as I know the MRAs support the right of both men and women to choose. Feminists oppose that concept. So if you were trying to be both a feminist and MRA you'd have to decide on all these issues whether you agree with the feminist view that men deserve no rights, or whether you agree with the MRA view that men deserve rights just the same as women.

Roddy0608 · 2012-08-24T09:32:40+00:00

I don't think so. Why not be a women's rights activist instead of a feminist?

Priapus_Unbound · 2012-08-24T11:57:00+00:00

If you choose both, I think that makes you a humanist.

truthman2000 · 2012-08-24T04:50:30+00:00

Just because you support the rights of African Americans doesn't mean you can't support the rights of Asian Americans

AaFen · 2012-08-24T06:00:47+00:00

When we say we're against "feminism" it's because "feminism" doesn't mean what it once did. Once upon a time it stood for equal rights and fair treatment under the law, in the home, and in all aspects of life. Now it's meaning has changed to mean female-centric chauvinism. "Moderate" feminists aren't really feminists anymore, they're just decent human beings. I'd say there should be a new word for the moderates (it would have to be the moderates because there's no way in hell you could ever convince the militants to change) but I don't think there needs to be a word for it. You're just a well-adjusted person.

I, and I think I speak for most Men's Rights people (I don't really consider myself an activist) here, dream of a world when we can just put all this bullshit behind us. We're not here to fight a fight, we're here to solve a problem. Once the problem is solved, there will be no need for an MRM and it will simply dissolve. That's the world I want to live in. Where we aren't goverened by ideology, where we aren't judged by our answer to the question "Are you a ____ist?" I just want to live my life in peace.

truthjusticeca · 2012-08-24T05:00:56+00:00

It's mostly gender feminists that MRAs have a problem with.

betaprime · 2012-08-24T09:13:52+00:00

Don't reduce yourself to a label, any label. Labels mean different things to different people. Factions in social movements fight over the definitions of words all the time. Read Christina Hoff Sommers on the battle within feminism.

2012-08-24T09:34:48+00:00

Both movements push for gender equality, though sadly feminism has lost its way thanks to the ones who take it too far and want men off the face of the earth.

mayonesa · 2012-08-24T09:52:46+00:00

People here are making the debate too complicated.

If you support equality, it doesn't matter what you call yourself, you're one of us(and any GOOD feminist would support you as well)

railmaniac · 2012-08-24T04:49:43+00:00

Sure.

Just look at this comment from yesterday's thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/yohyr/serious_question_why_arent_you_feminists/c5xgu2j

NemosHero · 2012-08-24T08:58:08+00:00

Not all MRM are anti-feminists. Not all anti-feminists are MRM.

My suggestion to you is my suggestion to almost everyone. Stop worrying about "I believe x so must be in group y". Believe what you want to believe. Read, learn, express yourself. Stop worrying about what title you have.

railmaniac · 2012-08-24T05:27:44+00:00

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rightsbot · 2012-08-24T03:40:18+00:00

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rottingchrist · 2012-08-24T04:25:17+00:00

Basically, what I'm asking is can I hold both of these viewpoints without having them conflict with each other?

In short, no. You can agree with many issues that feminism looks to solve and issues that the MRM wants to remedy.

But if you identify as a "feminist" then you are by definition hateful of men.

AwesomezGuy · 2012-08-24T21:41:28+00:00

Don't call yourself a feminist or a men's rights activist, call yourself an equal rights activist

nwz123 · 2012-08-24T23:21:51+00:00

What do you get when you blend an MRA and a feminist together? ~~A bloody mess~~ Egalitarianism.

JockeVXO · 2012-08-24T23:56:52+00:00

I'd say no. The feminist worldview and activism don't go hand in hand with equal rights and protection.

woman's right to choose

Two things:

How about a man's right to choose?
What makes it exclusively feminist?

LordOfGummies · 2012-08-26T13:00:17+00:00

How about you stop trying to label yourself and believe what you want to believe?

The_Patriarchy · 2012-08-24T05:37:41+00:00

Yes, you can be a feminist and an MRA. "MRA" implies no specific ideology.

2012-08-24T07:22:19+00:00

I think you can consider yourself a feminist if you like (maybe an equity feminist). However you certainly should not accept the dogma of the movement (rape culture, patriarchy, male gaze, etc).

mayonesa · 2012-08-24T11:38:04+00:00

I definitely agree with a lot of the main points of the movement (genital mutilation, alimony/unfair child support, etc).

I'm a proponent of gender equality and non-discrimination for all.

The problem is how we go about "equality."

Generally, if men tend to be perceived as smarter, stronger and more successful, the solution is to Robin Hood and take from men to benefit women and other disadvantaged groups.

In fact, the essence of feminism is a call for this penalty-subsidy.

As a result, it doesn't make any sense to call yourself a feminist.

2012-08-24T09:47:11+00:00

Both sides have valid points. In general, I try to oppose douche-baggery wherever it exists. The idea that we have to commit wholly to one side or the other is pure nonsense and foolishness. I just want to be (GASP!) as reasonable as possible, even if that means nobody gets everything they want. The current situation is extremely lop-sided. and men and women need to renegotiate.

Liverotto · 2012-08-24T10:12:48+00:00

Why not?

funwish · 2012-08-24T13:50:42+00:00

I don't think men's rights would be necessary if feminism didn't exist. The MRM started largely in opposition to feminism. I don't think you can be and MRA and feminist at the same time. Can you be a Christian and an atheist at the same time? Feminism lies about men, the MRM tells the truth.

southernasshole · 2012-08-24T18:30:20+00:00

That's like asking if you can be a christian and a satanist at the same time.

Feminism is in direct opposition to the rights of men.

drinkthebleach · 2012-08-24T07:56:37+00:00

There's no belief police, man. Go for it. Feminism at it's definition is nowhere near why we're against it, we're against the people that use that banner for misandry. The two groups could work together, ideally. But we concentrate on the crazies of the other side usually.

madarapt1 · 2012-08-24T14:10:18+00:00

yes. its called being an egalitarian, and any rational " rights activist" is such.

ExiledSenpai · 2012-08-24T13:24:15+00:00

I am... why couldn't you? Bigotry is a 2 way street.

2012-08-25T02:59:28+00:00

No. Feminism isn't about equality of women, it is about dominion of woman over men. Men's rights is about preserving men from overzealous feminism.

You could be a women's right and men's right activist though.

Title	Can I be a Men's Rights activist and a Feminist at the same time?
Author	upboatshoes
Upvotes	31
Comments	130
Date	August 24, 2012 3:39 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/yqhlu/can_i_be_a_mens_rights_activist_and_a_feminist_at/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/can-i-be-a-mens-rights-activist-and-a-feminist-at.1015142 https://theredarchive.com/post/1015142

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