Is redpill really that bad?

gappypramanga · 2022-08-28T02:38:26+00:00

How about marriages where the woman is the breadwinner and the man is the househusband? Or other unconventional arrangements?

softnmushy · 2022-08-28T02:47:26+00:00

Yeah, redpill really is that bad. Because it’s full of toxic bs that will make you unable to form a healthy connection with a girlfriend.

Some of things redpill says is true, because it was just stolen from pretty ordinary books on dating and self improvement.

Training_Passenger79 · 2022-08-28T07:48:42+00:00

Two points to consider: - Objective value is not unique. What is not unique is replaceable. - We date who we relate to, for better or for worse.

TRP hooks men in with self-improvement, but that doesn’t last long, because the message it sells is self-deprecating. The message is that only objective qualities have value - which sucks - because if that we’re true, then yes, everyone is replaceable. What makes you any different from the next man with muscles and money? Nothing.

Luckily, that isn’t true, because humans consistently pair bond with people they relate to. If you are a devout Christian, you’re unlikely to shack up with a wealthy atheist. If you’re invested in physical fitness, you’re unlikely to find someone who pigs out on junk food to be attractive. If you’re a musician, you’re likely to have a preference for musically skilled people.

In the same way, we mate people who have similar ideologies. People we feel we can trust because we understand them. People who resonate with us on what feels to be a deep level.

When you are a person who is self-motivated, self-valued, and has moral value…and in particular, when you are the kind of person who defines themselves independently, and has the strength to stand by who they are despite social pressures…Well, then you attract someone who shares your maturity and respects you for it.

If you find a woman like that, or I found a man like that - I think neither of us would be stupid enough to let that person go because some other human has more money or abs. Only a fool would do that.

So the real problem is that red pill actively devalues men.

TRP claims that women have dating options lined up down the block. If that were true, why would a woman choose a man with a sexist ideology and superficial values over someone who makes her feel good to be around? The older a man gets, the harder it gets, too, because women get increasingly more serious about looking for a spouse once they’re in college. Casual sex is fine, but spouse selection requires someone you can trust to be by your side.

Anyways. If you really want to know how women actually think and feel, rather than the delusion tRP sells, then the way to do this is pretty straightforward. There are multi-million dollar industries invested in performing studies to deduce just that. Look at women’s media - and don’t do it from a jaded perspective. Do it clinically and objectively.

If you look at the books that are popular with women, the movies they like, or songs whose lyrics were written by women, you will see the same themes repeated over, and over, and over again.

Movies and tv shows will tell you the qualities women look for in men. Books tell you about the kinds of interactions and conversations women fantasize about. Song lyrics are interesting in that if you compare man-written lyrics to woman-written lyrics you will see distinctive themes that will really show you the distinct ways the sexes view the world. Men, for example, tend to sing about events and the things they notice with their senses (especially sight). They also favor themes of historical events. Women tend to sing about emotions, meaning, and sensual internalized experiences.

I did an experiment once with a friend and had him send me lyrics I’d never seen before. I guessed whether the artist was male or female. I believe we did 8 of these and I got one person wrong, who ended up being non-binary.

You don’t need TRP to tell you how women work. TRP just tells you how bad women work, and then sells this as though all people are like that.

The only thing you have to do to disprove that is to really just look around. The evidence is everywhere.

Good luck & no judgement. I know it’s rough for guys. It’s rough for girls too. Dating sucks.

xvszero · 2022-08-28T02:44:57+00:00

Yeah, it's pretty bad. And Andrew Tate is a rapey dude, not someone ever worth watching.

The_Intropervert · 2022-08-28T03:11:33+00:00

Red pill bullshit is like a broken Rolex; it's right in some instances, but is wrong information most of the time even though it might look nice to certain types of people – and it'll cost you more than it's actually worth.

Most of what you mentioned boils down to the fact that relationships are transactional. If you cause someone to feel more bad feelings than good feelings, then they will eventually end their relationship with you regardless of whether it's romantic, platonic, business, or familial. Nobody deserves your baggage, nor are you entitled to dump it on other people; it's your baggage and you need to either carry it yourself or get rid of it.

As for being "settled for": it's more likely the older you get, and settling is a two-way street. Nobody is perfect, and there will always be things you don't like about each other once you get to know each other intimately. The key is to both accept and internalize this, and find someone you like most of the time who doesn't mind you being yourself around them. Ultimately, you're going to die eventually and unless you want to die alone, you have to adjust your expectations of other people to be more realistic.

Waiting for a good-looking, financially-stable, child-free woman to come along and enthusiastically be your maid, therapist, and sex slave isn't any more realistic than her waiting for prince charming to show up in a Porsche and whisk her away to his mansion on a private island where she'll never have to do anything but be pretty ever again.

Academic_Snow_7680 · 2022-08-28T10:24:40+00:00

yes, redpill is hella toxic and misogynistic. These guys are so preoccupied with Chad and how he's getting all the girls instead of focusing on the fact that

a) women are people that generally function differently than men

b) women are very rational people, you can talk to them

c) women don't owe anyone sex

d) women like guys that looksmax, that's the only part of the RP you should adopt because that revolves around bettering yourself but apply the same logic to both your looks AND your inner man as well as how you work

e) making a gf 'mother' you is a sure way to turn off her libido. As well as poor hygiene.

f) women want to be valued for who they are as people, not what they can do for you.

sharedordaz · 2022-08-28T06:36:16+00:00

Yes, is that bad. Why?

1: Teaches you that being yourself is bad. If you are not a macho alfa (or sigma) guy, you will be unable to be with someone who sincerely loves you. This is very damaging to mental health

2: Women are the enemy. Red pill teaches you that women are like animals who are very selfish and opportunists. Even if some women are like that, thats not the case with everyone, and this happens in both sexes, men and women.

3: Makes you a worst person. Red pill teaches that to be an alpha guy, you have to have missoginist and psicopatic attitudes. Also, red pill relies on Social Darwinism. Nazism is also based on social darwinism

4: Is false. Stadistics like the "tinder hipergamy" have been proven to be biased. Being an alpha male is not proven to be the most attactive "archetipe" to women.

uniquename1992 · 2022-08-28T06:14:05+00:00

no matter what pill you're, no one can guarantee a woman would never leave you. On top of my head, I don't think any red pill influencers are fathers

zhawadya · 2022-08-28T06:40:12+00:00

Well so most of the evolutionary arguments are pseudo-science that's been debunked for decades now. I suspect you believe in at least some of them given your emphasis on "providing".

Attraction is of course an important parameter and like us women can't help what they find attractive, but from my experience as people get older their choice of partners becomes less dependant on physical/emotional attraction, and more on personality factors + compatibility.

In general when it comes to non-physical characteristics I really don't think men and women are that different in what we find attractive. Being with someone who is broke or depressed for example poses challenges regardless of your gender or orientation, and that can lead to someone leaving for someone new who isn't broke or depressed. Simply because it's easier for romantic sparks flow in such situations.

Academic_Type624 · 2022-08-28T10:38:21+00:00

I'd argue that even in your own statement you've provided reasons why redpill is bad.

Suicide is the biggest killer of men under 50. In your own statement you say that you've been told by other men you shouldn't express your emotions because it makes you look weak.

Suicide is strongly linked to feeling isolated, unsupported and hopeless. If more men were allowed to seek support then it would likely have a knock on effect on Suicide rates.

RainyNightDub · 2022-08-28T21:11:24+00:00

Red pill is, fundementally, bro science. It's trash. It's for people who have never read anything other than self help in their lives. It's basic bros telling us all how we are, when no one, anywhere, really knows anything regarding essentialised gender. It's trash mate, leave well alone.

spiraldinosaur · 2022-08-28T08:27:23+00:00

I think the problem here is that it's pushing a lot of very dated ideas about what a man should be and should do and what a woman should be and should do, and beliefs of how women treat men. It's overly generalised, and forces men, including yourself, to hold yourself to unrealistic standards. It's ideas of dating and relationships based purely on what others have told you, and not on actual dating experience.

The idea that men have to be "manly" is nonsense. Men can be soft. Men can be emotional. Men should be emotional. Emotional intelligence and the ability to express yourself and communicate how you feel about things in a healthy way is extremely appealing and is one of the foundational pillars of any successful relationship. I have never been "manly", and if anything that has been an advantage for me when finding dates, sex and relationships. Even more so than being able to "provide".

And that idea of "providing" is also very dated and, well just plain wrong. Women are people, they have jobs, they live alone sometimes, they make their own income, they cook their own food, they drive their own cars. This idea is often based on some pseudo ideas of ancient times, but there is zero proof that prehistoric humans lived like that. It's an idea that was enforced by misogynistic religions and cultures that saw women as property of men. Women are just as capable of providing, and caring for their partner, and the responsibilities should be distributed fairly.

And no, it is not a cut-throat dating world. This idea that dating is competitive is misleading and extremely unhealthy. You have to remember two important things; dating is a search for compatibility, and compatibility is extremely variable. It is not about being the best man on the market, it is about finding the best match for you, and someone for whom you are the best match. Women all want different things. Some will want that strong, masculine guy with the well paying job. Some want an artist who is expressive. Some want the guy who makes her laugh. I can tell you from experience that plenty of women are happy with a skinny <6ft guy with pretty much no money, no fashion sense, and crippling anxiety, but is emotionally intelligent, able to communicate, listen, and make them laugh.

Will a woman leave you if you lose everything? Some might. Who the fuck would date those women though? A good partner will support you through difficult times, and it is just as much her responsibility to support you as it is for you to support her when she faces difficulties. That's another pillar of a healthy relationship.

You're right that no romantic love is unconditional, but you have to reconsider what that means. It's not about you being able to provide, but it is about you being a good person who brings positivity and joy to her life, since that's really what dating is all about. It might not be about providing financial support or physical protection, but it might be about going to therapy when you need it, or helping maintain a healthy clean home, or being there to support her when she faces difficulties.

Your duty as a boyfriend/husband is not to be a provider. It is to be a source of happiness, comfort and support. And the same is true of your partner; she is expected to provide the same. You must be someone she can trust, someone she feels safe around (ie someone who is not a threat to her, not necessarily a protector), someone who makes her feel better when things get difficult, someone who brings her joy and fun. And again, the same must go the other way.

There is no reason why you should ever be "settled for" if you can learn to accept yourself as you are, and this is another bad lesson that red pill types preach. There is no universal expectation of what a man should be, and no specific form of yourself that you should be working towards. You don't have to meet some specific criteria to be good enough. You have to learn to accept yourself as you are, work on the things that don't make you happy, and be working on it for yourself and not for the sake of meeting someone else's expectation.

Again, remember that women are a spectrum of unique individual people. Every single one wants different things and wants to live in different ways. They are not all looking for the same thing, so you do not have to be that same thing. A man who is in tune with himself is so much more attractive than a man who is trying to please some guy on YouTube.

Do you have to be strong? Yes, but you have to figure out what "strong" means. Strong can be stoic, physically powerful and financially well off. Or strong can be emotionally intelligent, comfortable with embracing your feminine side and being able to resist the toxic expectations that are laid upon you by others. Strong is about finding your own strengths and embracing them, not about fitting a mould.

Women should absolutely choose their best partner. But who that partner is will be different to every woman. And the sooner you can learn that, the sooner you will be able to embrace yourself and become who you are supposed to be.

vaporwav3r · 2022-08-28T14:25:42+00:00

I feel like red pill males love to say women don’t have unconditional love when they themselves don’t either!!! Would you love your wife if she gained 150lbs? (Been proven, No!) would you love her if she was sick and dying from cancer? (Don’t get me started on the studies) Would you love her if she cheated? (No, but if you cheated, she should be able to forgive, right?) would you love her if you suddenly became wealthy, opening you up to women who are more attractive, possibly younger etc? (NO! There’s already a term for this, “starter wife” with countless examples of men leaving their wives when they get on.

You cannot provide unconditional love so why do you expect it? I never ever EVER am going be with someone NO MATTER WHAT. Red pills love to talk about how women initiate 70% of divorces… because they’re not going to be drug for filth, carrying the entire emotional and mental labor of the relationship, with men who don’t put in any effort besides “providing.” And 9.5x/10 the woman is ALSO working and providing, while being the main caregiver and doing almost all of the household chores. Getting the oil on the car changed 4x a year, cutting the grass once a month, putting together a shelf every 2 years, taking out the trash 3x a week is not contributing to a household!!

You can go on TikTok and see 10s of thousands of videos and comments of women talking about their experience of doing most of the work in their relationships and households. I just can’t for the life of me understand why you guys will not take even a SECOND to look inward and to try and see what you can do. It’s always projection, redirect, devaluing, gaslighting, deflecting.

Saying Andrew tate helped you with confidence is like saying Adolf Hitler helped me with my art.

asshole67throw · 2022-08-28T17:37:35+00:00

Red pill teaches you how to get a person trauma bonded to you.

This is only “works” against unhealthy people will low self esteem. Healthy people will just move on or tell you to fuck off.

Not only is this inauthentic and not real love, but they are usually not the kind of partners you want - hence the reason for spinning plates/searching for a new one.

I went through a spinning plates phase and it is exhausting and unsatisfying.

Even narcissists use “blue pill” or love bombing to get a person interested in them and then change their behaviour later down the line. Red pill really doesn’t work.

Xx_SwordWords_xX · 2022-08-28T03:48:55+00:00

You should find a partner who values "provide and maintain", because not all do, and it sounds like you'd feel entitled just for earning money to feed and house yourself.

PapaSanjay · 2022-08-29T02:10:43+00:00

It’s pretty bad

JUST_WANTTOBEHAPPY · 2022-08-28T03:05:17+00:00

The problem with "anti-redpill" argument is they argue from a very losing ground even if they have good intentions of challenging toxic narrative that redpill try to spread. Example redpill will say young women would go for higher value older men. People of anti redpill (I seen again and again) providing example of statistical study saying young women would mostly only go for men their own age. To me both are true. And where anti redpill fail to acknowledge is ( they maybe purposely done so) is that there's a subculture of women on internet fantasize about older men. Where do you think terminology of "daddy" came from?

A better way should be just saying yes there are subgroup of women attracted to older men, but likewise there's subgroup of men attracted to older women. This isn't a prominently specific gender behaviour.

When you have a weak argument of why redpill is bad. It makes redpill more appealing because redpill "makes more sense".

Generally redpill inherently in itself is neither good or bad imo, it just a simple question, does it helps you?

People get all heated up and get nauseous as if redpill is this taboo word that shouldn't be spoken. Placing this weird moral standard on it. To be fair I can see why, there's many people (like myself) got damaged by redpill teaching somewhere along the way so it make sense to have such negative pushback but I don't think it's the way

I refuse to subscribe to it because I find it unhelpful to me and I'm better off without it. I don't care if men wants to subscribe to that ideology, I feel neutral towards it. Fyi in case you missed it I'm not a redpill apologist ,I disagree with their teaching but I don't think saying REDPILL IS BAD , is a good argument

mrgoodbarxxx · 2022-08-28T12:51:39+00:00

I’m my opinion, redpill isn’t inherently “bad”. I also think that it makes a lot of really good points. I think the people who subscribe to it take it to an extreme that makes it more problematic. I can go into more detail, but that is my sense.

Blue pill also can be problematic, just to less of an extent.

PadThai42 · 2022-08-28T13:07:42+00:00

I don’t think Tate is as bad as 21 studios. This is Rollo Tomassi, the bald guy, and the hodge twins. They have way more pseudoscience behind labeling men and women. Books, literature, conferences, nearly everything you can think of in the Manosphere.

MelissaOfTroy · 2022-08-28T21:30:31+00:00

Redpill is for teenagers. The fact that older men like Tate are pushing it is really sad both for them but more importantly for those that they are pushing it on. Literally none of this stuff is true. No matter how cool it sounds to you, once you are no longer 16 and dealing with 16 year old girls NONE of it is real and it is all there to exploit you.

AutoModerator · 2022-08-28T21:46:22+00:00

I agree. Non of the genders have unconditional romantic love. I wouldnt bang a fat chick with no legs, so my love for her is contingent on the fact that she is pretty and fuckable. Women are the same but they look for more traits in men, some long term traits as well like wealth and resources.

AnnoKano · 2022-08-29T21:20:13+00:00

I think it’s important to have a strong father figure or a male role model, but I’m not sure why any of these manosphere guys would fit that role. I guess I might have thought some of them were cool when I was young and impressionable, but they are also the sort of people I would now as an adult look at as losers and ask myself why I ever respected them in the first place.

You need role models OP, but you need to find some that are doing well in something you care about and who you can respect and admire for the work they are doing, rather than people who are trying to be role models for their own financial gain.

tired2beugly · 2022-08-30T13:51:50+00:00

if u are good looking rp is not a problem in ur life

DisasterPeace7 · 2022-08-30T18:38:30+00:00

No I don't think so, I don't Define myself as a member of that community but do I think it's what some of the members here make it out to be? No, at the end of the day the main message is male empowerment and male excellence, some people in the space are easy going, some take it too far, but my answer as a whole would be no, just find the content creators and methods that work for you and everybody else be damned🤷‍♂️, good luck

zapadz · 2022-09-04T22:21:00+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF4YFKJbVw8

Title	Is redpill really that bad?
Author	SIXNNER
Upvotes	10
Comments	132
Date	August 28, 2022 2:20 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/wzk1e9/is_redpill_really_that_bad/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/is-redpill-really-that-bad.1131056 https://theredarchive.com/post/1131056

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