Nice Guys, Assertiveness, Passiveness and Simp: Why men NEED to be assertive in dating

Slyfer_Seven · 2023-02-21T02:27:07+00:00

What if you know what you want and what you want is to just go with the flow, so you do that?

Chick is busy? No worries, some other time then and you go out with another chick, or you just roll out with the boys and see where the night takes you, because it's all going to be fun whatever way it goes...

CLyD3_H3ffalump · 2023-02-21T02:50:09+00:00

Based off your description passive and assertive is just more typing. It doesn't have to be that deep, if she wants to see you she'll make that known; people got plenty to handle, so much so that a date falling through isn't in that out of the ordinary. If you gotta push for that

tinasnow-poty · 2023-02-21T13:44:14+00:00

If you’re talking to a woman and she says she’s “busy for the next few weeks” then she’s not interested in meeting at all

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-02-21T04:21:38+00:00

I personally prefer the “passive” one, that guy seems more chill, the “assertive” one comes off a little rude like it’s going to be his way or the highway, and that would probably shut the door on any further interaction. In the “talking stage” there is not any obligation to make time for the other person. If someone is busy, there’s nothing stopping you from just talking to and going out with other people. You don’t need to tell them that, you just do it.

Now if you start dating and things seem to be going well, and they’re suddenly always busy, that’s different, you have a right to say something and not have your time wasted or be left hanging. But yeah, talking is just… talking. I refuse to continue talking with guys who act too entitled to my time right away.

jay10033 · 2023-02-21T03:20:14+00:00

How does one describe the guy who responds "when are you available so I can check my calendar to see when we're both available?"

Joelypoely88 · 2023-02-21T02:16:06+00:00

There's nothing wrong with being the 'passive' guy (in terms of the description you gave), if he's genuinely happy with either outcome.

wtknight · 2023-02-21T12:12:19+00:00

I think that you need to point out that assertive guy gives himself options. He's talking to several other women besides the one whom he asks out, and if it doesn't work out with her then he's got several others who he could eventually be asking out. Maybe he asks out the one who says she is currently busy if the opportunity presents itself again, maybe he doesn't if it never does.

The key is that men give themselves options, because most women always have them just because of the number of men interested in them, not to mention that they often have lower general libidos to begin with and are therefore pickier about the men they date. Only focusing on one woman is what makes a guy become a simp or a friendzoned nice guy in the first place. Once a guy meets a woman whom he mutually connects with on an emotional level, then that's when he can drop his other options.

Ohyarlysmiles · 2023-02-22T22:11:53+00:00

Most women don't want a guy who's whatever about seeing them.

and then the rest of the post contorts itself into recommending a certain kind of simping.

Buddy boyo, if 'hey that's cool let me know' isn't enough for a chick, then that chick isn't that into you and you're wasting your time.

Hanging out is low effort. That's precisely the point of it. Low stakes.

ambrosedc · 2023-02-23T07:45:19+00:00

If feminists were really about equality they would support women being assertive and making the first move instead of fearmongering and demonizing and dehumanizing men

just_a_place · 2023-02-21T07:24:31+00:00

Passive/Assertive is a false dichotomy.

Patience (a passive trait) is an assertive virtue.

Cuthbert-Binns · 2023-02-21T03:18:46+00:00

Why does every man have to be fit to one mold? What a shit society where we all must be the same

Sure-Vermicelli4369 · 2023-02-21T04:06:08+00:00

It's hard to do that when dating for men is commonly described as a numbers game

Sudden_Difference500 · 2023-02-21T06:51:56+00:00

Interesting point for me is that you will not see a similar characterization for women.

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2023-02-21T15:27:07+00:00

I think middle ground is better. Be nice but don't be a pushover. That advice should apply to everyone.

MistyMaisel · 2023-02-21T18:07:59+00:00

I dunno, I feel like none of these guys are coming off as assertive to me including the assertive guy. Particularly his last sentence just sounds passive to me. It never really expresses any genuine interest to me or an attempt to assert past the first road-block. He sounds like the passive guy to me just with more words in between. Honestly, the more words there are, the less assertive generally.

justforlulz12345 · 2023-02-21T20:57:04+00:00

If a woman says she's busy for a few weeks then you lost bro, she's not interested. Just move on to the next one, no amount of game is gonna fix this

_here_ok · 2023-02-21T23:38:15+00:00

you seem to be confusing passivity and assertiveness. the passive guy is being dismissive showing that she isn't priority. the nice guy is entitlement obviously. the simp is more passive because he isn't forcing anything but is still showing interest. while the assertive guy is just passive.

an assertive guy would flat out just ask if he could help her out or ask if he can date her in a nonconventional way that is convenient .

now this isn't simping, simping is discarding all your self respect by sacrificing your own livelihood or the livelihood of others. like telling her you are offering to pay her all the money she would loose from not working. that's total disregard for your own livlihood because you don't even know how much money she gets paid.

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2023-02-21T02:13:54+00:00

So… be confident and don’t play games?

Brilliant!

AutoModerator · 2023-02-21T01:57:38+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2023-02-21T04:31:06+00:00

Assertive man is attractive if he is a lusty man - he lusts for life, for purpose, for desire, for women, he is passionate about everything or a particular thing, not just women - assertive man can look desperate and unattractive if not naturally lusty

Men that desire women are hotter than men that desire sex, the latter sees escorts and has porn addictions, the former man has swagger in his walk and smoothness in his talk, that's my opinion honey

PortoGuy18 · 2023-02-21T10:34:14+00:00

Yeah, i agree with the Assertive Guy part.

Sometimes people confuse being assertive and confident with being a "dick", but that is mostly "Nice Guys" doing nice guys things.

Also, Nice Guys are too busy trying to make themselves look that they are nice guys, when they should just be good people that have a personality other than being "nice".

Being nice doesn't make up for the lack of personality, it's just the bare minimum for a human being.

You don't get a prize for being "nicer" than the others, you just move on with your life.

We can be assertive and confident in ourselves, while not disrespcting other people, just like we can be good people that don't allow themselves to be trampled and exploited by others.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-02-21T10:59:18+00:00

To me it just sounds like the "simp" and "assertive guy" want different things. The simp wants to meet up; the assertive guy isn't bothered. They both assert that. The simp has taken the path that will most likely lead to meeting up soon and the assertive guy has taken the path that will most likely lead to cleanly moving on. Which fits with the general trend of men being labelled "simps" because they have different goals from the man doing the labelling.

KingWhoCared86 · 2023-02-21T11:15:40+00:00

Damn all this time I thought I was a nice guy, guess I’m changing to passive.

Substantial_Video560 · 2023-02-21T11:29:12+00:00

I used to be a simp in the past before I became MGTOW. I shake my head in disbelief of my behavoir back then. Embrassing much!

AfterRemorse · 2023-02-21T12:56:16+00:00

I hate that I've been all these at once but I can say for certain the assertive person is the most Respectful, and theres a silence in respect which speaks volumes.

The others are all fake respect.

Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 · 2023-02-21T19:32:19+00:00

What if you are a good looking assertive guy with great D that turns into a loving simp for the one you love.

What a great concept.

KayRay1994 · 2023-02-21T20:06:35+00:00

To an extent I agree, though a middle ground is always best - usually between passive and assertive in that you wanna assert your presence and make yourself known, but also make it clear you’re willing to respect her limits and operate on those

Ex. in the example you mentioned above, the middle ground between both might look like “I understand, however I do prefer to meet up in person. Let’s reconnect when we’re both less busy - let me know when you’re free next and we’ll talk then” or something lien that

Lucky-Raspberry-3821 · 2023-02-21T20:08:43+00:00

What's up with the dichotomization of everything in PPD? Like you're either this or that disregarding that behavior depends on the particular person and their personal values, beliefs, experiences, etc., along with the specific social environment the person finds themself in (B=f(P,E)).

Like say I'm dating a blind woman, am I a simp since I'm voluntarily altering my independence to cater to her peculiar needs?

I get the point of bringing awareness towards counterproductive and self-destructive behaviors in the dating landscape, but let's be honest, simps are going to relapse at any given time they get female attention. They're not the kind of people having any logic to spare in discussing their pathological need for women validation. Let's just expose reprehensible behaviors in the courting process for what they are and how to identify them, without making it into an ethical dualistic struggle

AlverinMoon · 2023-02-22T00:06:07+00:00

I don't think men need to work on their assertiveness at all. From what I've seen most men make it really obvious they like a girl and most girls know when a guy is obsessed with them (or pretend they don't know so they can use him for things.) I think guys who go following a woman around without telling her they like her should definitely be more assertive, but not because the woman doesn't KNOW he likes her, they should be more assertive because they've tricked themselves into thinking this girl likes her by playing "the game". I think women need to be more receptive to plain English and less receptive to "toeing the line between uninformed consent and rape" or "the game" that two people play where they pretend to not be interested or go right up to the edge of admitting it until they have sex or it ends badly. It sets everyone up for failure. If you like a person and you wanna get to a point where you guys are comfortable sleeping together, just say it. This is mostly for girls, because currently if you go up to a woman and let her know you're interested in that way, most will be far too turned off by your forwardness. They want you to "play the game" and get as close to sex without having it as possible, until you "win" them. It's really weird but I've had women say this stuff to me, and I thought they were like Red Pill talking points. They're not, they're actually how the majority of women view sex, they just don't say it outwardly because...well because it's crazy. Also when you're doing crazy shit you don't always, hell even usually recognize it. Also if everyone else is doing it, then it's way easier for you to just throw the blinders on and say "That's just how it is!" But the sexual "marketplace" if you will, for men and women at least, is a two way street. Both sides have to play ball. I feel like a lot of guys who are considerate (they take hints, won't push you to do things you don't wanna do, "risk averse") get left out to dry because most women select for guys who do the opposite. Which leads to this really weird scenario where women have all the power in relationships because the majority of guys are actually considerate. Women have sex with their fill of inconsiderate guys that they selected for by placing barriers for the guys to overcome, anything from "My friend Jake actually said he wants to take me out this week instead!" To "I don't know if I'm ready for this.." and those situations, I think, are exciting for a lot of women because they don't know what's next. But one of two things happens after that, they actually realize that they're selecting for guys who don't respect their boundaries, and select a guy who does, who is the considerate guy I was talking about earlier. And that guys usually happy to be picked because he hasn't had nearly as much success as either the inconsiderate guy or the average girl, in terms of sex at least. And the girl is happy because she knows what she wants (a guy who not only respects her boundaries, but is ultimately happy to be in a relationship with her because he hasn't had as many as her in the past, they value it differently.) That gives the woman a lot of power in THAT relationship. The other type of relationship is one where the woman picks the guy who doesn't respect her boundaries, they get married, she either learns to live with it like most women did back in the 50's I'd assume (because back in the 50's more men were more willing to overstep boundaries like that because they had more power in the relationship, by my estimation) or she breaks down and gets out of dodge (divorce). In the former, there's probably a fair amount of relationships where a woman has staked a claim and able to earn back her boundaries as the relationship goes on, or perhaps stake out more important or meaningful boundaries in lieu of the ones she sacrificed for the relationship.

Also, for all the guys who might read this and think it's easy for women to make the changes I'm talking about above, consider if girls aren't actually attracted to looks, but they're attracted to the way you act. And acting in a way that transcended their boundaries in a non-threatening way turned them on. What if that was the only thing they found attractive? Well now by forcing them to talk about their feelings in an open and honest way about sex you've destroyed the magic that made it so appealing to them in the first place. I don't think it's so easy. But I do think we're at a point where guys are getting the rough end of the stick immediately (they're not dating as much as they used to) and girls are setting themselves up situations and relationships that can be pretty negative as well, they just don't happen immediately. Some girls end up in a really good spot, but like I said earlier, that's to the detriment of the nice guy who usually marries her. There's exceptions to every generalization I've made here, but I think a lot of these generalizations are a tough pill for most to swallow. But I think it's an accurate pill, for both sides.

FlyV89 · 2023-02-22T17:17:52+00:00

"Ok"

Ectoplasmic1984 · 2023-02-26T17:42:50+00:00

well this is an understatement, since reality unfairly dictates that men have to be the ones to pursue and go after the woman

Silver-Tumbleweed351 · 2023-02-21T03:51:02+00:00

Interesting descriptions, but you left sex entirely out of the equation. Assertive guy enjoys sex and knows women enjoy it, too. He’s motivated.

The other guys are inhibited by a low drive or religious/cultural indoctrination or insecurity.

Title	Nice Guys, Assertiveness, Passiveness and Simp: Why men NEED to be assertive in dating
Author	FutureBannedAccount2
Upvotes	15
Comments	70
Date	February 21, 2023 1:57 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/117rbv6/nice_guys_assertiveness_passiveness_and_simp_why/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/nice-guys-assertiveness-passiveness-and-simp-why.1153087 https://theredarchive.com/post/1153087

Comments