I think progressive capitalism is ruining society and making finding partner harder for men and women

WilliamWyattD · 2023-06-06T15:37:47+00:00

I think you are pointing at the truth. But it is really hard to parse what are the effects of classic liberalism, progressivism, and capitalism. Overall, the primary driver is our moral inability to constrain our use of technology. The extent to which the 'isms' contribute to this is hard to say. Countries like China or Russia, to the extent they get modern technology, end up creating their own variations of the West's runaway technological cyborg dystopia that is at least as bad, if not worse when you throw in their techno-authoritarianism.

mlo9109 · 2023-06-06T15:29:08+00:00

Capitalism in that we're overworked and underpaid so can't socialize and meet partners organically like our parents and grandparents did? Yes. Only retirees and students can socialize anymore.

My mom's horribly outdated advice to me is to go out and volunteer to meet men and if that doesn't work, I can meet a nice boy at church. Even at 33, I'm the youngest person in most of these rooms.

The bar scene isn't much better. I live in a college town so my options are to hangout with barely legal college kids or greasy middle aged men hiding from their wives and responsibilities at the pub.

Greedy_Parsnip1339 · 2023-06-06T16:02:42+00:00

Capitalism has definitely exacerbated the difference between the top tier dudes and average dudes. But the general higher standards for men is also not blameless

Da_Famous_Anus · 2023-06-06T18:32:39+00:00

It's called Neoliberalism

wtknight · 2023-06-06T15:55:30+00:00

How is capitalism making people choose not to court? You haven’t really made the connection in your post.

gofigure62 · 2023-06-06T15:43:43+00:00

Any system where all the the labor and resources are funneled to a few over the majority is going to complicate life and make it significantly more difficult to function or thrive.

Attempting to blame one party in a structure that has little variation in corporate policy is just blatant denial.

Anyone that isn't elite is being sucked dry and both parties support this mass exploitation. Neither blue or red actually give a flying fuck about the quality of life or ability to live for plebs and surfs. The general population is just another recourses to exploit. No political party sees the people as people, they see the people as live stock that needs to breed and produce to be extracted from.

HahaIOwnedYou263 · 2023-06-06T17:00:30+00:00

It's been extremely beneficial for women, but only been good for a small subset of men. Female liberation and capitalism have meant a huge downgrade of one's quality of life for the vast majority of men, like 90%, however weird this might sound.

Pizzashillsmom · 2023-06-06T15:25:19+00:00

It’s communists (and other far leftists) who wants to abolish the family and view monogamy as oppressive. Economically the far left has mostly failed to spread their ideas in the west, but their social ideas flourish here.

I guess you can argue we should to the opposite and have a left wing economic society with traditional social views, but there’s no serious advocate for the in the west.

kvakerok · 2023-06-06T17:05:22+00:00

Commies: blaming capitalism for their own stupid errors since 1917.

KayRay1994 · 2023-06-06T15:22:59+00:00

I guess my only disagreement is the term “liberal/progressive” capitalism rather than critiquing capitalism as a whole as this system relies heavily on consumption, materialism and obtaining wealth for the sake of obtaining wealth - the issues these create have pretty much equated to a disconnection from the spiritual realm as a whole, a loss of connection to the environment and land around us, as well as a form of hyper-individualism that actively hurts things like community building, team dynamics, etc - under capitalism we don’t live for each other, we live to take and consume, and that will fuck will all kinds of interpersonal dynamics - I agree with your general premise, but pinning it on “liberal/progressive” capitalism as if any other form of capitalism won’t lead to similar issues in the is what i have a problem with - hyper-consumerism, toxic individuality and loss of a connection to the spiritual realm are inevitable with capitalism - regardless on whether its progressive or not

LowCreddit · 2023-06-06T20:58:27+00:00

You might have a point in East Asia, but not in the West. Working conditions aren't as good as the post-WW2 era, but it's still better than most times. The sole problem in the West is divorce allocations and child support.

Happy_Nuclear_End · 2023-06-06T15:20:03+00:00

Aways blame the capitalism when you've had the most prosperity and advancement during the capitalist society.

After all it's hard to just blame the peoples that voted for this shit, it's hard to accept they're lied to and basically impossible to make them accept that no matter the system, no matter what revolution happens, no matter what kind govern it's upon our heads, a pawn continues being a pawn.

AutoModerator · 2023-06-06T15:08:45+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Maffioze · 2023-06-06T16:12:08+00:00

The problem relevant for dating isn't capitalism. The problem is wealth inequality.

Now of course capitalism creates wealth inequality but it's not like there is no way to go against this. Unfortunately the US government is owned by corporations.

lolthankstinder · 2023-06-06T16:30:08+00:00

Progressive capitalism is just capitalism, which has always been around. When women were campaigning for their right to vote in the early 20th century, some smart capitalist probably sold stickers or something and made money off the movement. That’s just how capitalism works.

Furthermore, love and parenting contributes to enormous industries. Do you think a bunch of lonely single dudes are going to buy diamonds and pay for weddings? Having a steady flow of births and population is also massively important to the economy. You’d have to be an incredibly stupid capitalist to want to ruin the economy and destroy the massive industries based on love and parenting.

Capitalism motivates people to innovate to make money, and bad people can innovate bad things to make money. Those same bad people would do bad things in other systems too. It’s not capitalism, it’s just shitty exploitative people.

Also, sometimes new innovations can have unintended consequences. In that case, it’s just bad luck, not exploitation. However, continuing to make money off something you know is bad is exploitative (e.g. cigarettes). In this case, social media and online dating probably have bad unknown consequences on dating, mental health, and expectations of the opposite sex. Just like smoking, social media can be gone in a heartbeat if knowledge of extreme and undeniable harmful effects becomes widespread.

panascope · 2023-06-06T18:33:33+00:00

I think the real problem is how liberal capitalism or progressive capitalism is making people toxic and atomizing individuals which is ultimately killing traditional culture norms such as courting culture that both men and women benefit from.

Ok, by what mechanism? This is total buzzword salad that you're presenting as settled fact.

Basically I believe capitalism is not just overworking people and making things harder to afford but also breaking up communities and dividing people up and making them compete for jobs. Since things are chaotic and people move around constantly looking for cheaper place to live it demonizes attachment and punished people for showing affection and love. I remember I got bullied as a kid for showing love towards animals. It's another way to divide people up. But it also creates a culture of pessemism and defeatism through idea of capitalism realism in which the current material conditions we live in will never change. These factors make it hard for men and women to interact with each other in healthy manner. Even if relationship happen some of them are broken down due to these factors.

The average American over the age of 25 works basically 40 hours a week. Overworking just isn't the norm for most people. You also haven't really explained any of the actual methods here by which capitalism is destroying communities or whatever, you're just claiming it to be true. And the idea that Americans are so busy moving around seeking cheaper rents isn't really true either, Americans are moving on average every 5 to 7 years, directly contradicting this notion of housing chaos. You certainly haven't linked this to demonizing attachment and punishing affection and love, hell, just look at modern pet ownership. There's a huge market (thanks capitalism!) for all kinds of wacky pet toys and treats and food and spas and salons and therapists and other insane stuff that simply didn't exist even 15 years ago. On top of that how do you reconcile this idea of societal pessimism with the literal fact that hundreds of thousands of people migrate here every year hoping for a better life? Doesn't that directly contradict your notion?

This all just seems a bit specious.

nemma88 · 2023-06-06T23:20:12+00:00

What sort of capitalism do you agree with? Based on the issues you have with them (and for much I agree) I see that as good old Capitalism (without any classifiers needed). The difference between good old Capitalism and where we are now is the inevitable corruption (imo, to any economic model that's around long enough) via greed, as the wealthy abuse systems meant for start ups, smaller businesses etc. As sectors get too big to be allowed to fail (2008 Banks etc) unregulated they can take risks, because they're never at risk. Even better the CEOS and leaders get paid millions regardless of if the companies do well or not, they can't lose. Businesses are set up with the aim of cashing out when bought up, and the umbrella corporations have no real competition and services stagnate.

capitalism /ˈkapɪtəlɪz(ə)m/ noun an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit.

By private owners, for profit. It is by its nature pretty individualistic because measuring what value you can provide is the only goal. Most capitalist countries contain non capitalists elements, aka social (socialist) healthcare in the UK.

As far as I can see Liberal capitalism is concerned with low taxes and enhanced property rights & Progressive capitalism is https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/19/opinion/sunday/progressive-capitalism.html. But we're probably not using the same definitions.

I feel like, since I started working (in 2008) here in the UK there's been pushes like remote working, currently 4 day week, people working in sectors they like and greater working rights - but I'd call those progressive policies.

RocinanteCoffee · 2023-06-07T06:48:16+00:00

While I'd disagree that 'courting culture' is something superior or that we want to make common again, you are right that the current state of things does have us atomized.

We're separated from our work, our neighbors, our community. States have gutted arts budgets which used to fund more free social gatherings and evening enrichment in cities and towns.

Though the idyllic one full-time job supporting a stay-at-home spouse and/or family and a debt-free college education and home ownership was never available to most lower income families in the first place it was worlds more attainable than it is now.

Now for people to have a chance at owning a home both adults in a household likely will need more than one 40 hour/'week job and a lot of luck or cosigners to secure a mortgage.

Third spaces are dwindling, even hanging out in the park as was very common 100 years ago, 50 years ago, and 30 years ago now risks being harassed for loitering, even benches are made unfriendly to discourage unhoused people.

Going out at night is much more expensive than it used to be, even adjusted for inflation. And many are too tired after 9 hours in the office and then an additional 4 hours doing gig work so they can make rent that month. They're going home to game and fall asleep, not go out on the town where they meet their community.

It's not the only factor, and you can circumvent some of this (dates and meeting people doesn't have to be expensive but it's tricky), but it still impacts things.

Comments