CMV Online Dating is the primary reason why today superficial things like (Looks Money Status) are more valuable then genuine things (character, charisma, humour etc) and i wanna discuss this.

c0pkill3r · 2023-06-21T07:50:38+00:00

Social skills can be just as shallow as looks. I've known extreme narcissists and psychopaths who are smooth and charismatic af. They say all the right things. But you can just ask people like this yourself, they won't even hide it on the internet, they can do/say everything right and get their way but they are empty inside. If you think good social skills means someone will be a good partner you are incredibly naive for believing what people say and how they act is the real them.

WowYouMustBeJoking · 2023-06-21T08:40:11+00:00

Who decides which things are genuine and which are superficial? For example, how are status and money superficial, but charisma is genuine? If anything, maybe that man had to work hard to achieve his money and status, while somebody else did nothing to get their charisma.

jackedsoon · 2023-06-21T07:49:52+00:00

Something like Tinder hasn’t engineered women’s tastes in just under a decade . They’ve always liked tall hot men, but had no access to them as they do now.

Carbon8348 · 2023-06-21T08:33:17+00:00

I am just gonna say look at media that is made for women. They've always had tall, muscular, handsome, rich, high status men in them.

Online dating has just given women more access to the men they actually find attractive and so don't have to settle for average men until much, much later in life, if they have to at all. Women's empowerment has also given women more of a voice so they are more upfront on what they like in a man, so we are hearing more about what women actually like in men.

Women have always liked the superficial stuff you mentioned, they just have much more freedom and avenues to pursue them.

Unnecessary-Training · 2023-06-21T07:28:01+00:00

I've already made this comment previously, and I don't think anything more needs to be said. Seriously, why is this sub so repetitive? The same handful of BS talking points keep getting repeated endlessly here.

Ohmaygahh · 2023-06-21T14:39:46+00:00

No different to what happened when the poors started getting TVs in their homes and realized how the well off were doing.

OLD has just allowed the sexually naïve and normal see how the sexually rich and abundant live.

The lived experiences are a universe apart. The other extra that happened is that it revealed to the romantically/sexually unsuccessful man AND the majority of median women how many options regular women have.

purplish_possum · 2023-06-21T15:37:55+00:00

imagine its 1980, straight up. You have 2 dudes, one is a average looking but very emotionally intelligent, very charismatic, smooth talker, funny whatever.

On the other side u have a tallish attractive dude that is a introverted dude, like he struggles to talk to women etc.

Dude 1 wins, yes if Dude 2 had the same social skills as Dude 1 he would win, but his looks cant compensate his deficit.

NO!!! That's not how it worked back in ancient times.

I was in high school in 1980. I was 6'1" when I started high school, 6'3" when I graduated high school, and 6'4" when I stopped growing in my early 20's. I went to parties and events but I was painfully shy around girls. I couldn't put two coherent sentences together in the presence of a pretty woman until I was in my late 20's. Didn't matter I still got laid more than my shorter friends. When I was 19-years-old I even slept with three different women in one week.

Looks (including height) have always been more important than personality or social skills.

kochIndustriesRussia · 2023-06-21T16:16:02+00:00

Go to a park in a new subdivision. Look at the dads. Soft...weak...average to below average looks. I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest they all have average social skills. 2 to 3 kids each. Why? They found girls that wanted to be moms. When a girl is ready to be a mom, she really doesn't care who puts seed in her...she just wants bambinos to squeeze and chase around. We're making guys think its all about them...when that's a very small part of it.

philseven12 · 2023-06-21T07:26:46+00:00

Online dating made looks and status more important than money.

Hot-Law2682 · 2023-06-21T16:27:23+00:00

Your ideas of superficial vs genuine are all over the place.

Wanting a financially stable partner for a long-term relationship is not "superficial" and has been the standard for a long time. Most people want to be able to raise a family with a decent standard of living, which requires money.
Characteristics like charisma can easily be applied selectively to manipulate people. "love bombing" is an example, a tactic where men will be affectionate and appear extremely interested in a romantic relationship to secure short-term intimacy, then ghost or remove themselves.

Online dating has really just given everyone more options, creating choice paralysis as everyone is constantly keeping an eye out for a slightly better partner to emerge (and ofc the extreme 10:1 gender skew means that women have way more options in this dynamic). This then prevents people from settling down and encourages situationships or fwb scenarios.

No-Victory-9096 · 2023-06-21T17:26:53+00:00

If you were just tallish, indeed, it wouldn't be much help versus a guy who is average looking but is GREAT at a lot of other stuff. If you were tallish + handsome, even back in the past, there is good chance the results would end up being the same (provided the girl really thinks he is pursuing her).

Fiestygirl000 · 2023-06-21T11:07:44+00:00

Looks get you in the door, attitude behavior personality is what keeps you in the house.

This is just basic mating strategies

wtknight · 2023-06-21T12:15:17+00:00

Dude 1 can still go lot and meet women in public and make friends and have social groups that will help him meet women. Nobody is stopping him from doing that.

Soloandthewookiee · 2023-06-21T13:05:22+00:00

Hot, rich, famous guys have always had an easier time dating. What has changed is that women are far less reliant on men for survival and so are far less willing to compromise on what they want.

Opening_Pattern_301 · 2023-06-21T07:30:16+00:00

Status makes you more attractive to women in OLD the same way a fat wallet makes you attractive to a scammer, so pay it no mind, you wont get that precious woman we all men need (because none of them are like that) let alone the love and respect you crave so much if you fulfil that demand anyways.

AutoModerator · 2023-06-21T07:12:23+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-06-21T10:03:53+00:00

With those types of people now it's still not clear who will "win". You see both kinds succeeding in whatever way you count as succeeding. Especially if you consider different contexts and types of people, not just clubbing and the internet and one group of women who share the same taste and priorities. (Also, there's nothing wrong with being shy. It doesn't mean you're a bad person or aren't genuine. Many women prefer quieter men.)

AutoModerator · 2023-06-21T07:12:23+00:00

Hi OP,

You've chosen to identify your thread as a CMV. As such you are expected to actively engage in your own thread with a mind open to being changed. PPD has guidelines for what that involves.

OPs author must genuinely hold the position and you must be open to having your view challenged.

An unwillingness to have your view challenged may be inferred from one or several of the following:

Asking few or no genuine questions;

Seeming more interested in arguing or convincing others than understanding opposing views;

Ignoring the main point of a comment, especially to point out some minor inconsistency;

Refusing to make concessions that an alternate view has merit;

Focusing only on the weaker arguments;

Explicit statements of an intent to change the other posters’ minds; or

Only having discussions with users who agree with your position.

Failure to keep to this higher standard (we only apply to CMV OPs) may result in deletion of the whole thread.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

wtknight · 2023-06-21T11:56:31+00:00

[permanently deleted]

lolthankstinder · 2023-06-21T12:21:34+00:00

Research shows that both men and women tend to focus more on easily-assessed qualities when given tons of options. So, the question then becomes, how do men’s and women’s selectivity compare when you increase the dating group size?

In one study that didn’t even use online dating or anything, they just observed a smaller and larger speed dating event and found that women’s dating selectivity did not proportionally change to accommodate for the larger size (while men’s did). In other words, if the overall “yes” average from women was 3 in the smaller dating event, it was still 3 in the larger. If men’s “yes” average was 3 in the smaller event, it might be 6 in the larger.

So I think the “primary reason” of the phenomenon you speak of is dating group size, not online dating. It would still probably happen because of social media and digital age interconnectedness even if a woman doesn’t use online dating.

Educational_Tank_175 · 2023-06-21T13:19:00+00:00

Agree with you 100%. Online dating statistically reduces men to five parameters that women look at exclusively appearance, money, age, height, race. In multiple studies, it has been shown that women look at these five factors and they don't look at your interests, or your hobbies, you are reduced to a 2D man. Furthermore, you will hear a woman complaining that the introductions are only 2 to 3 words and too simple or careless. However, studies have shown that in dating online apps, the length or quality of the introduction, makes absolutely no statistical difference in the likelihood of the female responding to the male introduction. Another point of interest, there have been experiments where men changed their job salary on dating apps, and it more than doubled The responses that came from women on dating apps. This is a terrible statement of the values of women in society today.

Due to the paradox of choice, we have statistically women that have gone for hundreds of dates and end up alone. With each attaching and detaching from dating women and men to a lesser degree, are changed. Frequent dating, and pick up culture makes actual changes in neural connections in human's brains and how men and women think and behave, and their ability to bond and commit in a relationship. This is the reason why the number of sexual partners women have or body count is such a critical assessment parameter.

Example: per Wilkinson and Finkbeum 2020 women with more than five partners were three times less likely to be in a stable relationship.

In parts of the world, where the family will pick the mate for a woman or man, statistically, those couples achieve, mature love, more often than in western civilization and superior marital happiness and life, happiness values. They don't enter relationships with a lot of baggage, a lot of preconceptions, or expectations, and Because they dont believe that there is an exit from the relationship, so they work at it, they compromise, they make the relationship work until finally it grows into mature love.

In America people jump about , hopping from relationship to relationship, body to body, and more often than not end up alone, bitter and dissatisfied with life. Then they blame the world, they blame the opposite sex, they blame everybody, but themselves.

This is not the Way.

NefariousNaz · 2023-06-21T13:50:22+00:00

It's probably the most major factor, yes.

Safinated · 2023-06-21T14:58:59+00:00

Nope. People just don’t want to marry and remove themselves from singledom right out of high school anymore. It’s not the 50s

WhitePillBlackman · 2023-06-21T18:40:15+00:00

This is wrong. Online dating shifted the attention to looks. Money and status used to be things men could use to compensate but that’s not a thing anymore

lostnumber08 · 2023-06-21T18:52:48+00:00

I met my wife online. I was able to get her attention through charisma, which translates to writing skills as well. For example: I type out the word "you" completely instead of typing the letter, "u", which is cringe for educated people to look at. Also, being a literate "dude", I avoid capitalizing words which are not proper nouns. Little things like that go a long way.

RedBullfrog · 2023-06-22T10:40:32+00:00

I'm old enough to have been dating in "the old days" before Tinder and what else. It was the exactly the same. Average men didn't stand a chance against the tall, fit and successful men. The difference now is the pool of dating candidates is much bigger. But what women chose is still the same

bielsaboi · 2023-06-23T05:00:44+00:00

Not just dating apps but social media in general.

Comments