What would your response to “not all men, but always men” be?

Arguesovereverythin · 2024-02-19T20:31:09+00:00

99% of the time, the best thing to do is to walk away.

If you bring up examples of woman doing the same behavior, they'll inevitably say, "Yes, rarely a woman will do this but it's usually men." If you bring up 10 examples supported by evidence from FBI crime data, recent census data, OSHA statistics, etc, they will say, "Yes but the victims are always women." And when you counter that with evidence, they say "Yeah, but so many more women are impacted." As if that's a justifiable reason not to help a victim with public money.

People that say "not all men. but always men" don't care about being factually correct. They just want to be right. It's a waste of your time to respond to these people because they will never acknowledge a viewpoint different from their own.

I'm a huge believer in MGTOW. In my opinion, MGTOW is not about removing every woman from your life, but rather those that see you as a potential predator. If you don't associate with them in any way, there's no way you can hurt them. Don't allow someone else's trauma to aggravate you. Instead, form your own network of relationships with people that value you as a human being rather instead of some nightmarish statistic.

Ozhubdownunder · 2024-02-19T21:00:14+00:00

It’s an overgeneralisation and an example of a tactic designed to encourage stereotyping and bigotry.

AigisxLabrys · 2024-02-19T20:04:53+00:00

What is this used in response to?

ElisaSKy · 2024-02-19T20:54:29+00:00

"Of course it's always men, since when women do it, it's not the same for some arbitrary reasons. I mean, when women force men into sex it's not rape since for whatever reason that's never explained, the humble male penis is apparently a weapon more destructive than even the Mother Of All Bombs! You name it, from murder, to domestic violence, to armed robbery and extortion, to even bomb fucking threats or even actually planting bombs i.e. literal acts of terrorism, "It's just not the same when women do it!"."

Mat_WhateverSilva · 2024-02-19T20:44:38+00:00

Irrelevant.

If that phrase is used to justify the hatred of men, it's a flimsy one, as all of them are. They are still targeting a specific group of men. Large or small, does not mater.

And if the topic is, for example, mass shootings, and their argument is that "not all men do it, but is always men", a follow up is necessary.

Why is it mostly men? Do you actually want to get into the whys? Do you want to help fix or address what is causing it?

There is a reason why the vast majority of mass shooters are men.

But 99% of the time, they don't care about the discussion beyond that point. It's just an excuse to continue shadow boxing the men they are talking about, but the only ones getting punched are innocent men.

hugyplok · 2024-02-19T21:53:50+00:00

Ask them to change the word "men" for "blacks" and see how they twist themselves into pretzels trying to justify how "it's not the same".

LWJ748 · 2024-02-19T21:19:00+00:00

My main frustration is if you use the same saying but use women instead of men you're then called a misogynist.

 "Not all women have hybristophilia(attraction to criminals), but it's always women" would get you labeled a misogynist.

MobCurt · 2024-02-19T21:03:47+00:00

Not all women, but always women commit crimes in space.

Asamiya1978 · 2024-02-19T22:13:30+00:00

If you change men for black, inmigrant, etc., the problem with that assertion becomes clear.

But as the other guy said, if a woman says that, it means that she is toxic. The best thing to do is to stay away from her. It is like arguing with racists, they never change. They are narcissistic and sociopathic. They always find excuses to rationalize their hatred.

JJnanajuana · 2024-02-19T22:15:55+00:00

This was my response (there's some info on the specific convo that this line was used in that would change depending on the context)

">yet somehow, always a man

Except it's not

Sometimes it's a woman fighting about kebabs

Or about custody

Or a woman with mushrooms

Or the murdered woman's girlfriend

Or a woman with her new boyfriend and a woodchipper

Or a woman with a car

Or a woman with a gun

Or a woman sitting around a fire with friends and a knife

Or the murdered woman's daughter

This time it was a man killing a woman with a hammer, in a school.

A scan through australianfemicidewatch shows that men killing women is too common. (But also that women kill women)

it's definitely not "always a man"

Maybe we should stick to talking about this horrific murder, rather than try to generalise wrongly from it."

Fyi: all the examples were woman in the news for killing someone in Australia within about 6months of make that comment. (Normally either the murder itself or the trial) There would be more now.

Peachysweetpea · 2024-02-19T22:07:42+00:00

I constantly am told that. I just say “women too. They do all the exact same things men can do. It’s really not a gender thing, it’s a bad person thing. You need to stop seeing one gender against the other. You need to start looking at things as bad vs good.”

liaratawitchtrial1 · 2024-02-19T21:47:41+00:00

It’s just blatantly incorrect, and invalidates lots of victims, male and female alike Signed, A woman who has been victimized by women in the past

Itsdickyv · 2024-02-19T22:06:07+00:00

Assuming you are male, “as a man, it’s obviously safer for you if we cease any and all engagement from here on, have a nice life”.

On a tangential note; why no WGTOW movement? Strong, empowered women who self-proclaim to not need men? Go right ahead then…

Geselshaft · 2024-02-19T22:42:00+00:00

Ignore it. It’s just yet another man hating feminist trolling you.

Don’t waste your time with these man haters. You can probably find better things to do.

Kill_Da_Humanz · 2024-02-19T23:11:03+00:00

“Not all blacks, but always a black.” Helps to reframe it.

DeddestNash · 2024-02-19T21:15:54+00:00

I mean you could always ask what saying that is going to do. Like what statement are you trying to make? Is it a factual statistic? No because obviously it's not every single man. What is saying this really going to do? Nothing, it solves nothing you're just pissing people off and rage baiting for no reason other than to make your movement look like it's full of assholes.

Why do we need to bother getting at one another's throats it's childish and is proven to do nothing. I'm sure men and women can both agree that a man attacking/murdering/raping a woman is bad and I'm sure whatever laws or education to reduce these risks would be widely accepted. But where are these proposals by people that say this? Nowhere because they're not real advocates of anything they're just dicks who want men to get angry or are brainless bandwagon jumpers. Either or, they are both incredibly common among people because we are stupid.

When people want to shut down your ideas, proposals or arguments by saying stupid shit like that where they try and close down what you say, then you know that this person isn't worth trying to sway. When someone gets defensive and overly aggressive when using statements like that, you've already lost because trust me they don't care what you have to say at all. They don't say it as an arguement they say it as a way to disengage.

Lolocraft1 · 2024-02-19T20:47:55+00:00

I show them the statistic which clearly proove women can be perpretators, and conclude by saying that if she’s going to fall into fallacies such as abusive generalisation, then her opinions become irrelevant

Ok_Persimmon5690 · 2024-02-20T02:21:26+00:00

“What, you mean homicide victims [1]? Or genocide victims [2]? Because it’s mostly men that are a risk of being murdered.” But in all seriousness, you can just reverse the logic against them. I mean more women commit child abuse and murder then men [3], and both men and women are equally likely to be be raped, domestic abused, and possibly stalked by members of the opposite sex [4], [5], [6]. So you could just present the evidence and reverse their argument against them. “Not all women, but always women.” Maybe they’ll reasonable enough to realize how unfair and discriminatory their logic is, but I wouldn’t hold my breath. Like others said, it’s better to just drop it and leave them in their own hated and resentment. Their only poisoning themselves.

mrkpxx · 2024-02-20T04:51:32+00:00

Women are almost always responsible when a child develops a personality disorder such as borderline or narcissism. Not all children develop like this, but it is always women's fault.

Scary-Error4119 · 2024-02-19T23:01:36+00:00

My response would be. ..are you strong enough to go live your life like Norah Vincent..the ftm..and read a book called .. manipulated man by estar Villar....then come back and ask us.

His_Dudeship · 2024-02-20T00:04:05+00:00

“Imagine if I said this using ‘women’ instead of ‘men’”.

Jaded_Permit_7209 · 2024-02-20T00:33:50+00:00

There's a key difference between a movement concerned with people's rights and a hate movement. The former discusses victimization rates. The latter discusses perpetrator rates.

Feminists are overwhelmingly concerned with what men do, not with what is done to women. If anyone disputes this, tell me what the most common response to the fact that the vast majority of victims of violent crime are men. It is, nearly every time, "Well who's committing those crimes?"

The most prolific hate movements in the United States have plenty of data to back up their assertions. If statistics are a valid reason to hate, we should tolerate all such hate groups.

Therefore, feminists are big proponents of the 13/50 argument.

CulturalStorm2003 · 2024-02-20T01:10:05+00:00

“Kill yourself”

jbuchan12 · 2024-02-19T20:31:52+00:00

Well, it's not always men, is it in reality? But if men cannot ever been victims, and they are always the oppressor and that's how you view the world, Then yeah It's going to be always men ain't it. You have basically rigged it so that it is.

volleyballbeach · 2024-02-19T22:49:49+00:00

Most people who argue “always” about a gender are not interested in being accurate, thus my response would be to disengage from the conversation

Scary-Error4119 · 2024-02-19T22:54:52+00:00

Women do it.... ..why marry a woman who has incentive to marry destroy you? Not all women ,but always women.. ...not all criminals come from single women homes but enough do..... .my body my choice says not all women but always a woman before she cry's for alimony child support....... Hormonal mood swings not all women but always women making excuses for bad choices behavior and actions.

iainmf · 2024-02-19T23:01:31+00:00

Women are human beings and just as capable of evil as men are.

If women are incapable of evil, they are incapable of good.

CarelessComplex9170 · 2024-02-20T00:58:30+00:00

My response would be: Please kindly remove yourself from existence and stop being a waste of oxygen

Lianides · 2024-02-20T09:27:39+00:00

Just ask them why no-one is talking about the real issue.

"All rapists and domestic abusers regardless of gender are birthed and raised by woman? "

philiacat011 · 2024-02-19T21:56:24+00:00

pick your arguments wisely. anybody who says this hasn’t matured past the phase of hating the opposite sex and are probably going to remain shallow individuals for the rest of their lives. it’s not worth arguing just walk away

Sauced_Boss_ · 2024-02-19T22:22:59+00:00

Not this ish again 🤦‍♂️

Electronic-Quail4464 · 2024-02-19T22:47:01+00:00

Nobody that ever has or ever will make this argument is doing so in good faith, and therefore is not worth the oxygen required to interact with.

No matter what evidence you present, they will dismiss it. You are always wrong based on your argument.

manicmonkeys · 2024-02-19T22:58:01+00:00

What kind of context are you talking about this being said?

Scary-Error4119 · 2024-02-19T22:58:55+00:00

Not all men pay alimony but always men... Not all men get arrested booted from Reddit for speaking truth but always men.... Not all men push pull open close fix find stuff for women but always men. Not all men listen and get manipulated by women but always men.. ...if you men wanna know who rules over you find out whom you can't criticize and question....not all women.but always women......the truth hurts them..

Eastwood96 · 2024-02-19T23:07:20+00:00

"No, hun--look it up."

sanitaryinspector · 2024-02-19T23:43:27+00:00

Yes, most crime is done by men as well as most dirty jobs outside nursing. We have to face evil men and if you want to live and participate in the same world as us, you have to as well. Yes, sentimental and sexual related crime is directed to the gender based on the offender's orientation

Lasttoflinch · 2024-02-19T23:44:38+00:00

U mean prostate cancer?

coming2grips · 2024-02-20T01:00:41+00:00

To quote star wars - it's a trap

This topic has had the language and context so completely aligned with the femnazi agenda your best bet is to walk away.

If that's not an option switch topic to 'making sure we are talking the same thing's '

Are we talking 'rape' or abuse? What counts as rape? Etc etc

Frird2008 · 2024-02-20T02:59:30+00:00

Just walk away.

If they run a business, refuse to support it. Refuse to give them any of your hard earned money.

If they run a tiktok or YouTube channel, refuse to support it. Unfollow them if you haven't already. Refuse to give them any of your subscribership.

If they are a single mother, refuse to support it. Deny them stepfatherhood over their children.

Eventually, when enough men start to do the above on a grand scale on top of check out of society as much as possible while still maintaining the minimum quality version of themselves required to survive off of bare necessities, society as a whole will wake up & take accountability on a grand scale, leveling the playing field for EVERYONE.

One of the top reasons why this mentality exists, is because there is a mismatch between it & its consequences. Negativity is rewarded & positivity is punished.

I'm willing to wager that in the modern times in the west, any woman who is vocally open about supporting & loving men is probably getting stoned worse than the men alone.

MadBlackGreek · 2024-02-20T07:14:14+00:00

I don’t engage. It’s a trap that has no escape

Whynot_stuff_77 · 2024-02-19T20:42:00+00:00

Committing SA

Sir_Spectacular · 2024-02-19T21:09:23+00:00

"Are you saying there are zero cases of women sexually assaulting men or other women?"

If they don't backpedal after realizing how easily disproven their argument is, just point them to the r/mdsa subreddit where women share harrowing true stories about the after-effects of sexual abuse they suffered at their mother's hands. They might have no empathy for men, but no feminist would dare show a lack of empathy toward female rape victims.

If they then say, "not all men, but mostly men," then... I think that's fair enough. Statistics do show that men are more likely than women to sexually abuse women and minors.

HelloFuckYou1 · 2024-02-19T21:22:42+00:00

its all women, until its none

Ivanhunterjo1991 · 2024-02-20T03:43:31+00:00

Demand proof of this claim

Living_Accountant_67 · 2024-02-20T04:57:46+00:00

I see this phrase everywhere on social media, which is sick. And they use the word "always" but also many times when it's a woman committing something they all just change it to "people".🤭

Tang_of_pussy · 2024-02-20T06:02:05+00:00

If anyone needs videos of my kids mom to disprove this, lmk

tesla1986 · 2024-02-20T06:46:18+00:00

Whenever someone uses absolute words/phrases like "always" , "everyone knows", "it's obvious" - they are full of crap.

And as I learned the hard way you can't win with those as they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Sirhugh66 · 2024-02-20T08:11:41+00:00

Thomas Aquinas: 'To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.'

Agile_Potato9088 · 2024-02-20T10:18:34+00:00

I would sigh, call them a moron, and leave.

RedPillAlphaBigCock · 2024-02-20T10:29:39+00:00

Going into these threads is like going into peak Chernobyl. You GOING GET INFECTED . Best bet is to stay out . It’s an echo chamber of toxicity. Work on your life and only live with healthy happy women

InsaneBasti · 2024-02-20T11:40:16+00:00

Tell tem to grow up and open their eyes. And leave this hopeless conversation.

Wrong-Art5272 · 2024-02-20T13:57:37+00:00

Not all woman, but always woman.

Paternity fraud!

Bundle_of_wood · 2024-02-20T16:48:27+00:00

I respond with “not all women, but always a woman”

slipkid556 · 2024-02-19T20:41:01+00:00

Get fucked in divorce

girlwholikesboys_ · 2024-02-19T20:18:49+00:00

not bad

RyuujinPl · 2024-02-20T08:24:40+00:00

I personally disagree that anything is such a simple fact; most examples of those are just the effect of systematic misandry that makes men way overrepresented in some crime statistics. The same mechanism applies to, for example, black people in the USA. While the claim "mostly men" may be realistic, "always men" is not very convincing. Anyway, it does not matter for my beef with the current society; the issue is what we are going to do with such stereotypes.

I am not opposed to segregating people into groups if it statistically makes sense. If there is statistical evidence that men are predominantly rapists, I can accept that fact and acknowledge that there will be areas deemed off-limits for all men, including non-rapists. It just makes sense and is efficient.

However, we must apply the same logic consistently across all areas. If we are segregating groups with the claim that "men are more inclined towards violence," then we must also accept the fact that "men are better at STEM," and so on.

If, as a society, we are going to segregate by gender, then so be it. If we are aiming for gender neutrality, then we must fully commit to that approach. I am tired of hearing "segregation is sexism!" only when it benefits women, but when it is about promoting them or limiting me, suddenly sexism disappears!

Personally, I prefer an individualistic, gender-neutral approach. But I am willing to accept any system that avoids hypocritical thinking.

arrouk · 2024-02-20T19:24:49+00:00

I can not think of a single thing that would fit that statement any more. In days past we could use physical traits.

Normal-Yogurtcloset5 · 2024-02-20T19:26:27+00:00

Not all women commit paternity fraud but it only women who do it.

child0light · 2024-02-20T20:08:37+00:00

"maybe in the case of mass shootings but I'm not sure I'd apply that generally"

MarjieJ98354 · 2024-02-20T21:28:17+00:00

I totally recognize that women are just as shitty as men. I pretty much hate everyone equally, Lol! But there is really no point in saying not all men, when the only men that come for you are men that are like that. I couldn't even fathom ever meeting a man that is not like that because men that are not like that don't pursue women.

Bacotell6969 · 2024-02-20T22:52:08+00:00

Not all men.

Title	What would your response to “not all men, but always men” be?
Author	Whynot_stuff_77
Upvotes	173
Comments	93
Date	February 19, 2024 8:03 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1aux17s/what_would_your_response_to_not_all_men_but/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-would-your-response-to-not-all-men-but-always.1245850 https://theredarchive.com/post/1245850

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