Telling women not to change for men is actually toxic advice

EulenWatcher · 2025-02-05T03:44:15+00:00

There's no much sense in trying to cater to men as a homogenous group of people. It's sensible to try to figure out what kind of a partner your "ideal" man/woman seeks, see whether they'd date you and what you can do to be a better partner for them. If I tried to cater to men as a group, I'd have to pretty heavily change both my style and personality, as I'm not someone who could be necessarily described as traditionally feminine or who puts a lot of efforts into their appearance beyond health and hygiene. But doing so would be counterproductive - yes, I'd cater to a greater number of men, but it would make harder to vet for a compatible partner, as I'd look and behave the opposite of my values. When I was single, I wanted to date someone compatible, not just "a" man.

When you date long-term, it's also expected that you both will change to accommodate each other. I.e. you merge your lifestyles in a way that makes sense for both of you. I feel that's where a lot of couples struggle. Cleanliness standards, what kind of stuff you buy home, what you cook and who cooks/clean, how often you go out with friends vs you go on dates, how often you host guests etc. Being able to make reasonable compromises goes a long way.

Some personal experience in the end, I wouldn't say that either my husband or I had to change much in order to start dating. We both had to push themselves to go and meet people, but overall dating as teenagers isn't nearly as demanding as it can be for adults. But we both had to change a lot as we started living together. Part of it was just growing up - we did move in when we were barely 18, but part of it was just growing as partners. Improve communication skills, learn what the other finds important that you might have never paid attention to, become more cautious, because your partner worries for you etc. If either of us refused to change at all, we wouldn't survive as a couple. We didn't cater to "men's" or "women's" standards though, it was more about learning more about each other.

Oli_love90 · 2025-02-05T01:54:46+00:00

I think you already correctly defined what it means to not change for a man. Generally, it means to not lose yourself in trying to fit his idea of a “dream girl”. It doesn’t mean don’t evolve to be a better partner and human. Unbeknownst to men, we have been told how to appeal to men from a young age so when being told not to change we’re essentially trying not to “people please” even more than we already are.

I find that some women push back on the expectations from men because to be real with you - guys expectations can be exhausting to keep up with. “Be skinny but have the proportions I like, always be happy no matter what’s happening, don’t express yourself too much, your ambitions are irrelevant - only your ability to care for cook or clean, don’t make too much don’t make too little, if your old it’s over, etc.” What you’re asking for seems simple to you but to some women it’s just not. They’re adapting as well as they can or simply de centering men.

wtknight · 2025-02-05T02:00:24+00:00

It's not toxic advice if she constantly has suitors or if she is content being single for long periods of time Why would she need to change?

At some point, if an average woman isn't content with the quality or quantity of men who seem interested in her, then she is likely to try to change based upon her own initiative rather than through any advice that she needs to be given. Men are the ones who usually need the advice since they are the ones who are so thirsty and desperate.

duncan-the-wonderdog · 2025-02-05T02:23:19+00:00

>Of course, this isn’t about changing your core personality or compromising your values.

Unfortunately, this is often what the case ends up being and the people who most need this advice have already compromised themselves into unfilling relationships where do end up trying to change who they are.

People need to know who they are and what they actually want from a relationship before engaging in one. And most people in relationships have no idea who they are or what they actually want.

>It’s about understanding the opposite sex and making yourself an attractive, valuable partner

What every man wants out of a relationship is not the same and I'm not sure why so many people on this sub seem to want to believe to that. What makes me an attractive partner to some guys would make me a living cancer to others. It's much better for me and other people to search for those who want what I have to offer instead of trying to cater to everyone.

spanglesandbambi · 2025-02-05T01:42:31+00:00

Why do you care?

toasterchild · 2025-02-05T01:39:07+00:00

Most people see shit like this get posted and just consider it a red flag. People come in all different flavors and not everyone is good at self reflection. Women who are capable of self reflection adjust their ways and choices all the time, they just aren't the same women making those posts. This isn't a men vs. women thing. Some men make adjustments just like some women make adjustments. Some men blame absolutely anything but themselves for their problems just like some women do.

Try to date people with less toxic traits to avoid being annoyed all the time.

False-Purple3882 · 2025-02-05T01:51:57+00:00

No, it isn’t. I want someone who is actually capable of loving me for me. Not someone whose ‘love’ is entirely dependent on me being the perfect blow up doll. What’s toxic is the idea that women should center our existence around what men find fuckable.

I don’t care if men find my hobbies or interests weird or don’t understand the purpose of them. I don’t care if men think I don’t perform femininity ‘enough’. I’m not a fucking doll. I don’t exist for ornamental purposes.

this isn’t about changing your core personality or compromising your values

Yes it is. Always is, always has been. Men think they’re the center of the universe.

Imagine how much more successful a woman would be in relationships if, instead of blaming men, she focused on becoming a better partner. If she understood what men wanted, built on those qualities, and worked to create a relationship dynamic that men want to commit to, dating wouldn’t feel like such an uphill battle.

“Imagine how much easier life would be if you just let men have their way always” Yeah, for YOU.

sibylofcumae · 2025-02-05T19:53:41+00:00

Women should absolutely change. But not for men. They should live in the truth — of their bodies and of the world, and that includes accepting what men are, which is undesirable on average, and very possibly detrimental. And there are exceptions — it’s just that the male mating strategy often involves pretending to be those exceptions, which has the effect of making them indistinguishable until the difference becomes apparent. Those exceptions are decidedly in the minority.

obviouslymoose · 2025-02-06T00:53:02+00:00

No one can change for anyone but themselves. It doesn’t work otherwise.

bluepvtstorm · 2025-02-06T02:06:26+00:00

I am maliciously non-compliant to any man who asks me to change while actually being 98% of the things they want. I just won’t give it to them.

Everytime I see those ridiculous lists of what most men want, I am pretty much all of those things. I just won’t do them until it is earned.

How does one earn it? By not being a dick. The more you ask or cajole the less likely I am to do anything and then just stop talking to you.

I love it. It brings me great satisfaction to watch them flounder and get to see what it could be but never actually giving the whole thing because their ego thinks they should get it just because.

It’s a game that I do to amuse myself at this point.

KayRay1994 · 2025-02-05T01:52:54+00:00

For a second there I thought this was gonna be someone taking the phrase too literally and I was ready to explain what it actually means is “changing with your partner organically is normal, but changing for the approval of someone is wrong. This is what the advice given means”

Nope, turns out this post boils down to “I work out, get a successful career and work on my confidence for the approvals of women. Women should do the same for the approval of men” - bud, maybe you should look at what you’re doing and ask yourself why you’re living for the approval of others

growframe · 2025-02-05T01:33:59+00:00

I wouldn't call this toxic, it's more just the vague nothingness that most dating advice online is.

LillthOfBabylon · 2025-02-05T11:45:01+00:00

If a woman is doing good in dating, she doesnt need to change.

> A lot of women today complain about men not committing, but they rarely stop to ask: What do I actually bring to a relationship that a man values?

The complaints about ‘Male Lonliness’ shows its more men who have this problem.

> But when men express what they want—femininity, supportiveness, kindness, loyalty, and maybe even a bit of traditional nurturing—they’re often shamed for it

Because these guys will want all of that without actually being traditionally male.

Den_the_God-King · 2025-02-05T01:24:39+00:00

You cant fix her

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balhaegu · 2025-02-06T06:55:10+00:00

Telling men to change for a woman is equally terrible advice

Kurkzer · 2025-02-06T08:10:42+00:00

It's actually more fundamental than this, it makes women who are attractive more in control of the market by keeping their monopoly.

Junior_Ad_3086 · 2025-02-06T05:34:32+00:00

women will gas up a 42 year old single mom or a serial situationship girlie that she deserves X Y and Z and that her dating life is not her fault, how there aren't enough good men etc. rather than giving her a reality check and some constructive feedback. that's not even hyperbolic - those are literal examples i've just read 5 minutes ago here on reddit and you can find countless more instances of that mentality in every female or dating sub.

it's easier to be delusional when everyone around you feeds into it and when you're still getting attention from the opposite sex, despite it only being surface level. and women's in-group bias, female solipsism and the women are wonderful effect certainly don't help either. what i'm trying to say is that this is a pointless endeavor OP. some otherwise intelligent women are completely clueless about or simply don't want to accept what it takes to be a keeper.

RoseyButterflies · 2025-02-05T12:02:45+00:00

Only those who are struggling need to face the possible reality that they may need to change.

Only a small percent of women struggle in dating and most don't.

Hence women really don't need to change to attract a man usually.

comsat101 · 2025-02-05T01:28:28+00:00

BOTH men and women should be willing to change for each other. If either gender refuses to change (to an extent), than that's a red flag. But to your original title, hell yes.

harmonica2 · 2025-02-05T09:20:09+00:00

A lot of men change to be more desirable to women so why do women take it more personally if the same is asked in return?

Title	Telling women not to change for men is actually toxic advice
Author	Familiar-Low3602
Upvotes	1
Comments	77
Date	February 5, 2025 1:21 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1ihya24/telling_women_not_to_change_for_men_is_actually/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/telling-women-not-to-change-for-men-is-actually.1542999 https://theredarchive.com/post/1542999

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