Hard cases for men?

YetAnotherCommenter · 2019-01-11T10:20:46+00:00

Why is it that men who have to learn how to charm women are seen as inferior? Why is it that men HAVE to be natural at attracting a woman?

Because women are the selectors (i.e. the more selective sex), and not all of the genetic worth of a man is obvious from appearance. Because women want the genetically hottest man, and acquired traits cannot be passed on to offspring, they're going to screen out men who "made" themselves hot in favor of naturals.

Why can't men do things that make them more attractive as well?

They absolutely can! They just need to keep it hidden from the woman so as to make sure the woman doesn't realize he's a "mimic."

Wouldn't seem completely unfair for a guy who's had a shitty hand in life to just accept that he's never going to find intimacy? I mean, if a woman was born seriously deformed in any way and somehow manages to become hot later in life, no man would really care.

Yep. Its not fair. Its absolutely fucking unfair.

We die, too. That's unfair.

Human biology sucks. Its capricious, unequal, unkind, random, and has no relationship to your moral goodness or badness.

So then, why can't a man learn to charm a woman?

He can, he just can't tell her.

He can get a penis enlargement too, but there's a reason men never reveal if they've had a penis enlargement.

That's the "adversarial" component of human mating. Information is asymmetric and several desirable traits can be mimicked. So costly signalling equilibria develop in order to screen out the genetically less sexy males. Social skills training, seduction/charm training, various kinds of plastic surgery and self-improvement, all of that ultimately works to lower the costs of various signals, thus allowing them to be mimicked and thus allowing signalling equilibria to be disrupted and thus allowing men to subvert women's pickiness.

Its cruel. Its unfair. But frankly, when was the last time YOU wanted to fuck a woman on the basis of her moral virtue?

The sexual world is shallow and amoral.

Zippo-Cat · 2019-01-11T10:04:25+00:00

Because we are a naturally polygynous species. (He repeated, for the 48th time)

Do you know what polygyny means? One man, multiple women. How does this work? TOP tier man with ALL tier women. Women can therefore jump tiers as they want; since ultimately it doesn't matter. But a man trying to jump tiers, that's basically trying to cheat the evolution. We can't have that shit.

shonenhikada · 2019-01-11T09:37:52+00:00

Women value things that are natural in men than those require effort.

For example - Women place more priority over height and face which was just handed by genetics over a guy discipline to eat healthy, get a nice body and maintain his commitment to the gym.

Same reasoning, women prefer guys who are just natural smooth than men who have to learn it and develop the skill. Same thing goes with confidence and everything else. Women prefer naturally gifted at something over effort.

NullOverLoad · 2019-01-11T08:47:06+00:00

1st RULE: You do not talk about FIGHT CLUB.

2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about FIGHT CLUB

HonestyOverCivility · 2019-01-11T11:42:04+00:00

“She want’s you to ‘get it’ on your own, without having to be told how. That initiative and the experience needed to have had developed it makes you a Man worth competing for. Women despise a man who needs to be told to be dominant. Overtly relating this to a guy entirely defeats his credibility as a genuinely dominant male. The guy she wants to fuck is dominant because that’s ‘the way he is’ instead of who she had to tell him to be.”

Source: https://therationalmale.com/2012/08/22/just-get-it/

wobbleelbbow · 2019-01-11T08:35:50+00:00

Just be yourself bro. She will come to you eventually one day after she is done maturing. And if not you can find happiness in other stuff, sex isn't everything you know. Don't be a pig ok? /s

wokein · 2019-01-11T07:47:19+00:00

Learning how to charm a woman doesn't make you inferior, who says it does?

Workaholico · 2019-01-11T13:53:18+00:00

Why is it that men who have to learn how to charm women are seen as inferior? Why is it that men HAVE to be natural at attracting a woman?

Genetics. They want someone who charms by genetic disposition, not because of learned behavior. They want the best genes, not the best learner.

Why can't men do things that make them more attractive as well?

They want the best of the best in genetics. That is why they also want tall men. Your life improvements for them is a scam. A lie. A false advertisement. Basically. They have double standards.

Wouldn't seem completely unfair for a guy who's had a shitty hand in life to just accept that he's never going to find intimacy?

They dont care. For all intents or purposes they being alive is meaningless unless to give resources. See the posts here many women cannot even perceive an average male existence, why would she have empathy for him? If anything, they profoundly hate low value men. Most men when they are irritated with another man they shout a insult to the man's intelligence or strength, probably because they think it is the worst a man can be. Now, how women insult a man? They attack his value in the SMV "Virgin" "small dick" "incel" etc. See? They despise low valued men. For a good reason. They have to die so she may not be mistaken and have children with a learner.

I do cannot empathize with women but their behavior is really telling. How could you not see why OP?

if a woman was born seriously deformed in any way and somehow manages to become hot later in life, no man would really care. So then, why can't a man learn to charm a woman?

Double standards. Genetics and just plain hate/bigotry.

Gravel_Roads · 2019-01-11T14:02:24+00:00

This is such a bizarre interpretation for normal social behaviors. It’s not just women, dude, no one likes posers, try-hards or awkwardness.

That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t still be trying hard to always be the best person you can be. It just means you have to prioritize your own approval over the approval of others.

The journey from awkward cruller to social competence is about you, and what you want to be “known” for, socially. ie, I prefer chill company who doesn’t sweat small stuff, so I insure that my behavior in public reflects this, so that other people of similar disposition can recognize me and find me (I’m also constantly looking out for the same on others!)

By doing this, I integrate into social groups that I like and enjoy.

Posers are people who want to join a class or group that isn’t compatible with them, but they want everyone to pretend it is. If you’re feeling left outside of a group or rejected by women because you are acting in a way that isn’t natural, you might just be trying to pick up chicks who don’t value the same behaviors as you.

BirdManBrrrr · 2019-01-11T17:11:11+00:00

To your underlying point, women want a guy who just gets it.

Women don't respect the effort it may take to get it, or the time and energy it takes to accomplish anything, really. They simply care that in the here and now, you genuinely get it and aren't faking or coming across as a try-hard.

Men naturally take satisfaction in putting in effort to an intended result and oftentimes will look to have the effort validated vs. just the outcome, which isn't at all how women want to view their lover, so to speak. That explains the entire line of questioning you have.

tl;dr: Quietly become what you want to be and don't look for a woman to validate the effort you put in.

verticordia · 2019-01-12T04:09:41+00:00

You absolutely can learn how to attract women. Just don't tell anybody. How does this sound: "I had an abusive childhood full of neglect that led to me developing harmful attachment styles. I can't properly express emotions and HATE conflict because everytime my mom expressed emotions towards me as a kid I could never be sure when it would go nuclear. My mom never taught me how to be feminine and didn't make me brush my hair or teeth as a kid. I've had assorted disordered eating patterns, stimulant dependency, a couple suicide attempts, but now I taught myself how to get over my abandonment issues, how to be feminine, and I'm making great progress with expressing emotional vulnerability."

Why does anyone need to know ANY of that? Yeah, most of that shit wasn't "my fault" just like how beta men aren't at fault for being raised like a beta man. What's important is the RESULTS, not what you went through to get to them. I wouldn't expect a man to be attracted to that (accurate) description of myself, just like how a woman wouldn't be attracted to a beta soy boy that picked up a copy of 12 Rules For Life and a planet fitness membership. It's GREAT to improve yourself and learn, but the results are what matters.

v3r1 · 2019-01-11T12:16:08+00:00

Because men who still have to learn ARE inferior. No one is born with that knowledge. There are men who already learned all that with years of experience and men who didn't. And if you can't charm someone what is their option? Being with you because they feel sorry? Do you know what the word "charming" means?

Point being you would not hire someone with no experience for a senior position because they are inferior to people with expertise. How about instead of crying about it you actually learn to be charming? You think going to the gym only helps women? Get your head out of your ass.

hurupu · 2019-01-11T09:03:53+00:00

Men who are "natural" at attracting women tend to have better health indicators, a more imposing size and more aggressive behavior.

Sometimes a woman will come onto a man with model looks, but for the most part it's the men who do the chasing and if the man has the balance of "ingredients" a woman considers attractive, she'll go with him.

Generally only desperate women and gold diggers will date men who aren't naturals and tolerate clumsiness from a man.

quercusp · 2019-01-11T09:38:39+00:00

Why is it that men who have to learn how to charm women

Just be attractive, that's all it takes.

Truedemocracy4 · 2019-01-11T12:48:15+00:00

Because love and attraction is SUPPOSED to be this magical thing that we have no control over and is 'destiny'. Yes, grown adults believe this.

But when you strip this all aside and see the inputs it becomes closer to a math equation. Some combination of looks, power, money, personality, attire, etc. and you can attract almost anyone. The great lie is we are told to be ourselves and that there is someone out there for everyone. The athletes date athletes. The nerds date nerds. And so on.

This is a lie. If the red pill has taught me anything it's that every type of woman responds positively to its practices. The sluts, church girls, corporate climbers, college athletes, book worms. It's all a lie - they all chase the same few men

ejkej89 · 2019-01-12T19:47:30+00:00

Damn, it's why I shouldn't tell girls I am after hair transplant. Good thing that after surgery they are attracted to me more than ever

exit_sandman · 2019-01-11T10:22:04+00:00

Why is it that men who have to learn how to charm women are seen as inferior? Why is it that men HAVE to be natural at attracting a woman?

The problem isn't exactly that acquire social skills, but if you simultaneously acquire a certain disdainful view of women in the process.

"He became more confident, fun, relaxed, easy-going and social, and that's a bad thing" said (almost) no woman ever.

However, if, in order to drop your pussy-pedestalizing views, you have to undergo a TRP-style (or at least PUA-style) "disillusionment therapy" and start to focus on negative female traits to get a more balanced outlook, women and especially feminists would prefer you to stay a sexless kissless hugless virgin. Because women don't exactly wish you ill - they just want not being offended more.

An anecdote! There once was a comment at /r/relationship from a guy who had been a 28 yo virgin who recently got into a relationship with an 18 yo girl, and has gotten a lot of flak from his social circle, and asked the internet about how to handle things. And most of the redditors in there (white knights and histrionic women alike) also ganged up on him and told him how predatory it was and how he should date women of similar age (because that has worked out so well for him in the past /s ) etc. - even though the guy himself was probably the least predatory type that girl could have dated. When I told him that the people his social circle weren't really his friends considering the fact that they haven't exactly been falling over themselves to help him improve his love life, but when he did manage to change something, they'd rather prefer him staying a virgin because they were more uncomfortable with him dating a far younger but still adult person; I got shadowbanned, which tells you a lot about /r/relationships.

Also, relevant reading.

bitter_samsara · 2019-01-11T07:29:57+00:00

The same women who aren't satisfied by you learning how to be charming are going to have makeup caked on their face, so what does that tell you? If you want to deal with women, you need to learn to overlook emotional bullshit and hypocrisy -- better yet learn to love it.

sketch162000 · 2019-01-11T08:36:47+00:00

Probably cos it could be seen as pretty basic social skills. It would be pretty weird to date a girl and go back to her place, and find "How to Talk to Your Date" by Alice McSlackflaps beside her bed. You might feel like the whole date was manufactured, you might think she was weird. Or if you went over to your bro's place and he had "So, you can't make any friends" in his book shelf.

Indeed, even after reading RP stuff, I couldn't say much about my conquests around the time beyond "it just happened".

So that's the premise for the hatred . I don't think it's quite as sad as that. Most of what you read about charming women is age old advice. Most of the stuff I read about it was similar to what I heard or learnt as a teen.

The best thing to remember is to not discuss it outside of certain circles. Maybe one day it'll be like women's magazines Etc (full of similar advice) that just get ignored by men.

So I think if you wanna do it, go ahead and have fun. But keep it to yourself because discussing it in inappropriate places takes the pizazz out of yourself.

Regal_Newt · 2019-01-11T07:28:44+00:00

Because, in general, it doesn't take skill to attract women. Just talking to women like people and seeing if the two of you click naturally is your best bet. When you can't talk to a woman like a normal person, it's a big red flag.

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naturethug · 2019-01-11T08:35:13+00:00

Oh I forgot life was transactional.

hajimenothrowaway · 2019-01-11T10:33:20+00:00

I think you are right, but I somewhat agree. I guess it’s that if it is a matter of nature instead of nurture, his kids may have it in them vs them also having to learn. It’s like finding out a woman had a bunch of plastic surgery. Her children will not have the genetics of her altered self.

I fall into this mindset myself. I have been told that I perform well I’m bed, but I studied and don’t have the most sexual charisma. Honestly, the stuff I learned to please women sexually doesn’t excite me nearly as much as them enjoying the appendage that was bestowed upon me.

blackedoutfast · 2019-01-11T18:27:48+00:00

life's not fair

TriadFamilyTimes · 2019-01-11T19:03:18+00:00

There is no such thing as a natural. There are only people with more innate talent for communication but 90% of communication is learned. I can be charming as hell, most of it was learned The difference between naturally glib people and not is usually a ton of early experience and social exploration on the part of the "natural"

verticordia · 2019-01-12T03:57:08+00:00

Women who had a shitty past and develop as a person are also seen as inferior. "Lol look at this bitch who used to fuck bad boys that slapped her around but after a couple years in therapy and bettering herself as a human being wants to BETA BUXX some chump lol what a cunt".

It's the same thing, essentially. A woman who had to learn how to get men to respect her and how to respect herself is seen as less than. A man that was bullied in high school and went to the gym and started reading 12 rules for life is seen as a try hard.

People want results, they don't care to know how you got them.

killallthenarcs · 2019-01-12T05:29:57+00:00

Fat women have the ability to lose weight and become more attractive. Why can't men do things that make them more attractive as well?

Fat men can lose weight. It helps a lot. Gaining a bit of muscle too, goes a lot further than it does on women.

Look, we don't mind if you go about learning social skills. Just don't expect us to be hanging around like a greek chorus to play a supporting role in your grand epic of becoming no longer socially retarded. Because that's like... really really boring and irritating for us and if you seriously can't do it without your hand being held all the way and at all times, maybe there's no real percentage in it for the rest of the world in you accomplishing this?

sadomasochrist · 2019-01-11T13:15:00+00:00

Are you an incel?

gblyeti · 2019-01-11T08:43:33+00:00

Because women are interested in your genes not your skills. Its the same reason men do not wear make up. Women want to see the "real" you so they can assess if you have the best genes available. They are interested in your genetic fitness and learning how fake the signals of that genetic fitness is revolting to them.

CatchPhraze · 2019-01-11T08:41:12+00:00

Nadda. But it's the don't be intimidated because woman are lesser then you or the it's ok to lie to attract women that we frown on.

tnais · 2019-01-11T07:48:34+00:00

Men can go to the gym, learn how to dress well, get a cool haircut, learn basic social skills and do fine. Usually men who complain about their lack of success w/ women are dropping the ball when it comes to at least one of those traits.

Either way, the world is rife with double standards-- stop playing the victim and complaining about how unfair things are; accept it and adapt accordingly or get used to being unhappy and frustrated for the rest of your life

Title	Hard cases for men?
Author	HairyNormus99
Upvotes	16
Comments	159
Date	January 11, 2019 7:24 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/aesz1d/hard_cases_for_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/hard-cases-for-men.257893 https://theredarchive.com/post/257893

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