Is a guy a jerk if he leaves his wife/girlfriend after becoming more successful?

Littleknownfacts · 2018-02-16T21:07:54+00:00

Wife, yes he's a jerk. Girlfriend, no, but I can still sympathize with her being upset about it.

damaskrose · 2018-02-17T16:33:15+00:00

He's exactly as much of a jerk as a woman who trades up after losing weight.

DemonConsulting · 2018-02-16T21:48:55+00:00

Wife and gf are vastly different. If you're married, you made a vow in front of whitnesses, your family and God (in most cases) to be with that person forever, then signed a legal document to officially join your lives together in front of the state. So, at least in my opinion, any reason short of abandonment/abuse or them breaking the vow (cheating/ separating) is a bad one to get a divorce. I find it highly immoral if either partner does it for whatever reason, though trading in for a better deal, regardless of gender, seems especially scummy to me.

In case of a gf/bf, it's not a permanent relationship in my eyes. I still think it's not nice to go into it planning to upgrade or it having an expiration date, I personally would only like to date with marriage in mind. But they don't really have any obligation to stay together and are generally free to break up for whatever reason - if both parties wanted it to be permanent with certainty, they would be married.

So yeah personally I find immoral and not acceptable at all in marriage and I find it kind of sad in a gf/bf situation but not morally wrong since they never officially promised commitment (which would be marriage).

Now what is generally socially acceptable varies depending on the society you live in and there can be large discrepancies between local communities, regions, socioeconomic classes, etc. So “women these days“ are still not a homogenous group. Women in conservative/ religious communities will have a different view on this from those in more liberal ones, Women from different countries and cultures/ cultural backgrounds will again have vastly different views on the issue and so will the men.

reformedorbiter · 2018-02-16T22:00:58+00:00

If women relentlessly pursuing their own self interest regardless of the damage to our society or the dating market is acceptable, why wouldn't men doing the same thing be acceptable?

LifterofThings · 2018-02-16T21:21:43+00:00

Yes. Marriage vows are for better or for worse. Someone who gets divorced because their spouse lost their job is a jerk. Someone who gets divorced because they got a better job and thinks they can get someone hotter now is a jerk. JERKS, ALL.

But nobody really cares about being a jerk these days. I guess the best you can do is to screen for jerkitude before marrying.

This is a false equivalency with AFBB, though. You're not making any vows to anyone for "AFBB". If you're not giving anybody your word on anything, then you can't very well be breaking your word.

reluctantly_red · 2018-02-16T23:35:10+00:00

"women these days are open with AFBB"

Where is this? I know not one woman like you describe. All the couples I know, myself included, are together because they love the other person and find them attractive.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2018-02-16T21:23:23+00:00

dont you think the addition of official, culturally recognized vows in front of an officiant and documented with a marriage certificate sorta changes the landscape in your Q a little?

sure, hes a "jerk", who cares though but his wife and family and friends?

wtknight · 2018-02-16T21:49:12+00:00

Dating, no, he can leave at any time for whatever reason. Marriage, yeah, he's a jerk. Marriage involves vows that I take very seriously and believe that other people should too, or else not bother getting married.

TheChemist158 · 2018-02-16T22:45:52+00:00

Didn't we have this same exact thread, with the doctor example, like a year ago? Ah well, whatever.

Yeah, there is no moral issue with a women sleeping around in her mouth and marrying a dude later on provided she isn't misleading anyone. Meaning the men she slept with understood it was casual and she at least didn't lie about her past with her husband (many couples have a don't ask don't tell policy which is fine).

If a guy is upfront about not wanting to marry a girl, there is no issue with casually dating her and dumping her when he can find someone better. It's the deciet that makes it not okay.

In terms of leaving your wife, no. You shouldn't marry someone you intend to later divorce. If you marry them you should be willing to give it your all to make it work.

carefreevermillion · 2018-02-16T21:09:11+00:00

It depends. Did she not support his endeavors? Is she a parasite on his finances? Does she suddenly treat him better now that he makes more money? Maybe she's the jerk and he's grown more than her.

If she loved him when he was broke and continued to be supportive and carried her own weight throughout the entirety of their relationship, then yes he's a jerk for cutting her loose.

CatchPhraze · 2018-02-16T22:57:55+00:00

I think that "settling for a guy you don't love and aren't attracted to, solely for his income" is along the same grain as "trading a woman who you had a good relationship with for another one whose hotter just because you can." And make that woman or that man, kind of not good people, sure.

But, is it always that simple? Nope. Most woman find stability in a partner attractive, that doesn't make them gold diggers. Lots of men change over time and want a partner that reflects this newer version of themselves and maybe aren't as compatible as they once where with their first spouse.

Very rarely are people and marriage "Hollywood movie troupe" simple. There is normally more then just one or two key factors that lead to this kind of behavior. So it needs to be judged on a case by case basis.

RockinSocksII · 2018-02-16T21:18:20+00:00

Depends. How much of a hand did she have in his success? Did she pay for his college or pay for everything while he was in school? Then absolutely he's a jerk. If she was just around, then not so much.

[deleted] · 2018-02-16T21:33:37+00:00

Unacceptable, but in current social climate.... I don't think it matters anymore.

TheBookOfSeil · 2018-02-16T22:16:42+00:00

It’s normal to use men for the utility they provide.

Well duh. This is basically the history of male and female relationships. Thanks for being honest about it though.

Guy breaking up with his girlfriend/wife after becoming a doctor is a common example. Or the guy that breaks up with his wife in her mid 30s to then go onto date a woman in her 20s.

If they find someone they are overall more attracted to than their current partner, it's really their choice but I don't see why not. I personally would have qualms about leaving my partner but it would depend on the state of the relationship. If I'm happy, I would stay. If the relationship isn't as much of a relationship as it used to be, despite trying to "fix things," I would be thinking about it.

I wouldn't associate any moral judgement toward someone leaving because they were offered a better deal. While it would be very unfortunate to see them go, I know that any malice toward the other person would stem from my own feelings of loss. I would feel like they've stolen something from me that I greatly enjoyed and I would despise them for taking it away from me.

Should we see this as immoral or is this just part of the new dating landscape?

I don't think we're ever going to be able to separate our projection of morality onto reality, so no comment.

AstuteBlackMan · 2018-02-16T23:47:57+00:00

I would think so. Unless there are other issues that were not known about that's a dick move. Just like its a dick move to leave a guy for a wealthier one.

sadomasochrist · 2018-02-16T21:07:33+00:00

This is more complex than it seems on its face.

The straight forward answer is obviously.

But if you accept hypergamy, then it's just evening things up.

It's just the flipside of how guys that aren't part of the survivorship bias feel. Anthony Bourdain comes to mind. He more or less "Eat, Pray Love"'d her.

Women do this kind of stuff all the time and we readily just say the guy should have worked harder, laid better pipe, been in better shape, not gone out of business "stopped being a controlling, abusive asshole" (stop trying to save a woman who has become openly hypergamous, lost attraction or is cheating) etc etc etc.

I'm still on the fence whether or not I'll stop exercising my options at 45 or when she hits menopause. I haven't formed a moral or pragmatic viewpoint of the situation yet, but I suppose I have to better understand when people actually get old.

stats135 · 2018-02-16T21:51:33+00:00

I view a "fair" marriage as a women trading her youth in return for having a man in when she becomes an old hag. So the issue here is basically when they got married. If a women married her man at eighteen, raises her children properly, and gets divorced twenty years later she has every right to call out the jerk that divorced her, and take her fair share of alimony while she is at it.

But if she waited til she was in her thirties to get married and gets dropped two decades later for a newer model, she should be happy she had someone taking care of her old ass for that long in the first place.

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concacanca · 2018-02-16T22:12:42+00:00

Fine to trade up GFs.

Wife.... depends a little on the push/pull factors at play. With women usually acting as the breakers of marriage and the likelihood of success of a lifelong marriage - I guess I don't see a problem with it if your life is worse with her than without her.

DaphneDK42 · 2018-02-16T22:16:39+00:00

Yes. It is ok to leave wife/gf for any reason under the sun, including you just don't feel the spark anymore. This is marriage 2.0.

HumanSockPuppet · 2018-02-16T22:34:02+00:00

Is a girl a bitch if she leaves her boyfriend/husband after becoming more attractive (e.g. losing weight, getting cosmetic surgery, etc) and discovering that she has more options?

Some would say yes. Others would say no.

GridReXX · 2018-02-16T23:43:39+00:00

It happens.

Kevin Hart left his ex wife of 8 years for a hotter wife once he got more money.

Relationships are prone to be hurtful unless people commit to staying with each other no matter what.

Many people find it difficult to commit to that.

It takes a strong constitution to not leave when you want because you can.

And then others are of the mentality, "Well to hell with being "noble"! You only have one life to live might as well try to enjoy it."

So idk.

Really depends which one of those axioms you subscribe.

BeyondTheLight · 2018-02-17T00:24:51+00:00

Hence why I want a man who is already successful. Inb4 I get a morality lecture.

MercedesBenzoAMG · 2018-02-17T00:35:51+00:00

If you're no longer attracted to your partner for whatever reason you're under no obligation to remain in a relationship with them.

I think it's smart to avoid this situation in marriage as much as is possible though, for reasons that are obvious - divorce fucks you up. If you're a guy who wants to get married, be absolutely fucking sure as can be that you wanna be attached to that particular woman. Otherwise, if you plan on trading up at the next opportunity, don't get married.

reluctantly_red · 2018-02-17T01:35:29+00:00

Reciprocity is important -- society is built on innumerable social contracts large and small -- without reciprocity these fail. If all marriage means today is "I promise to stay with you until I change my mind" then both parties are basically free to pursue their own self-interest (what's good for the goose and all that).

kandyapplez · 2018-02-17T01:36:41+00:00

I guess I don't see these things as right vs wrong. Its just human nature. A guy with an unattractive wife who suddenly skyrockets to success and suddenly has access to young hot babes is going to go for the young hot babes and that's just that. Its what I expect to happen.

Its part of the reason I go for guys who have always had access to the best of women. I think these make better men for marriage/families because they're not weighed down by "what ifs" like that

DeepCrimsonPill · 2018-02-17T02:20:16+00:00

Of course he is a jerk.

Should he do it though? Of course.

Perhaps not socially acceptable, but everybody would be happier if we were at least honest with each other. Men mostly want sex, women mostly want power. Both will go great lengths to achieve them, throwing out traditional morals when nobody is watching. Someone who lives their life assuming otherwise is just begging to be burned.

Entropy-7 · 2018-02-17T06:48:35+00:00

There can be a big divide - although it may be on a spectrum - of men who achieve success with the help of their woman and those who achieve success on their own or even in spite of their SO.

If she worked three jobs to put him through med school and then he bounces once he is making $350k a year, then absolute jerk.

OTOH, if he is the one put in 40+ hours a week at a workaday job and another 40 hours a week pursuing his dream in the form of a business or artistic pursuit (writing, painting, film-making, music writing/performing etc.) and she makes it a living hell by nagging him to focus more on her and her so-called "needs", if he makes it big then it is only natural to look at the landscape to see what his options are at that point.

Women tend to want either the sure thing or the guy who has already arrived. They have little risk (read as dream) tolerance by and large.

Priene · 2018-02-17T11:22:03+00:00

Or the guy that breaks up with his wife in her mid 30s to then go onto date a woman in her 20s.

Why won't the dumbass keep the wife to raise his kids and date the 20 year old woman on the side?

VDKay · 2018-02-17T13:28:02+00:00

He is not a jerk. He is just a super-insecure beta to marry/date a girl just because he does not want to be alone or wants to feed on her wealth/success. However, most likely, he is going to attract only super-insecure women that way. A lose-lose situation in my books, but I don't think it is socially wrong. Let him do what he wishes.

soupladlelad · 2018-02-17T16:30:02+00:00

Why would you want to if you were this man? This is a woman who has proven a level of commitment and value of/to you at your current SMV. If you think you can trade up to a "better" woman then you are fooling yourself. Look at the wolf of wallstreet he has a supportive wife and trades her for a hot wife. When things get rough she guts him and bails.

jerryskids_ · 2018-02-17T18:22:29+00:00

Yeah I think its fine. Just means the relationship with the woman in her 30s wasn't meant to be long term.

cxj · 2018-02-18T06:50:05+00:00

This is a tough one because success comes with a steep price, typically of your mental/physical health and/or relationships. It’s entirely possible there’s more to these stories, like the dudes having to spend tons of time away from their spouse to become successful in the first place and them growing apart. It’s also possible that the hotter girl is successful too, that’s how they met, and they now relate to that person better. Good looking people tend to be more successful .

I definitely feel sad for the dumped girl, just like I feel sad for the beta bux etc.

sad love

[deleted] · 2018-02-16T21:03:40+00:00

He is a jerk

Should we see this as immoral or is this just part of the new dating landscape?

How does it being common relate to it being moral or not

MGTOWManofMystery · 2018-02-16T21:21:55+00:00

All is fair in love and war.

peaceful_strong_man · 2018-02-16T21:48:46+00:00

No. As long as he takes care of the children. Why not just be polygynous? Men have that drive anyhow. Governments are confining men to monogamy. Many women leave after guys lose their jobs.

Title	Is a guy a jerk if he leaves his wife/girlfriend after becoming more successful?
Author	Seroop
Upvotes	6
Comments	185
Date	February 16, 2018 8:59 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7y1vu2/is_a_guy_a_jerk_if_he_leaves_his_wifegirlfriend/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-a-guy-a-jerk-if-he-leaves-his-wifegirlfriend.263567 https://theredarchive.com/post/263567

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