Can we discuss the gender inequality of suicide?

Jex117 · 2017-05-03T21:09:23+00:00

men are, on average, more socially isolated and less likely to seek help (be it a therapist, a doctor, family, etc.) when they're struggling. they're also more impulsive (linked to testosterone) and more likely to abuse drugs and alcohol. I'd imagine all these factors contribute.

sublimemongrel · 2017-05-03T22:40:03+00:00

Do you think this is biological or cultural/societal?

In rural China and in India suicides are overwhelmingly committed by women.

dakru · 2017-05-03T21:05:49+00:00

Some statistics say that more women are depressed than men, but that men choose more certain methods of suicide which is why there are more men who die by suicide.

I wrote a bunch about the topic here: Spotlight on: Men’s Suicide Rates

TL;DR: Men use more lethal methods, but we can't just stop there. There are reasons for why that is. In addition to men being less concerned about the appearance of their dead body, and men being more impulsive in suicide (including because they're more likely to be using drugs or alcohol), there's some evidence that men who attempt suicide are on average more intent on dying. Why might that be? Relationship breakdown (less likely to keep friendships up through the years, more likely to lose access to their children) and unemployment (losing a job is a bigger hit to a man's identity).

cats_or_get_out · 2017-05-03T22:41:42+00:00

I've spent two years thinking about this as I have tried to make sense of a tragedy, and I don't have a clear, easy answer.

In 2015 in the US, 7 out 10 suicides were white men. Nearly half of all suicides involved a firearm. Middle age men in particular have high rates of suicide. People over the age of 85 comprise nearly 20% all suicides. Women attempt suicide at a greater rate than men.

https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

This is one of those rabbit holes I have am still falling down. I can't really make any sense out of it. Any simple answer like "divorce rape" just fail to comprehend all the different, complex facets. Even "depression" is a weak answer. It is a factor, sure, but the vast majority of depressed people do not kill themselves.

I know that two big crisis events (precipitating before a suicide) are relationship breakups and financial failure. Add alcohol and access to a firearm, and the odds go up. Are these men less resilient? I don't know. I do think they view it as "problem solving" as in "my life is a problem, so I will solve it with suicide."

buttlollipop · 2017-05-04T06:50:21+00:00

There are many factors, but one I just thought about is gun possession. I know many men who own guns and zero women who own guns. Shooting yourself is one of the most surefire ways to go, and most women never think to buy a gun in the first place (most men who own guns didn't buy them specifically to kill themselves.) So it stands to reason that a guy who already has a gun for shooting/hunting etc might later use it to kill himself, whereas his female equivalent doesn't own a gun in the first place, so she uses some other method.

Princeso_Bubblegum · 2017-05-03T21:42:26+00:00

Males don't have support systems like women do. If I tried to have a "cry for help" but cutting myself or taking a ton of pills, I'd be kicked out of the house. As a society we act very callously to men.

BiggerDthanYou · 2017-05-03T21:14:21+00:00

In general women have a better social network and can more easily ask for help. They are also less likely to explode emotionally.

It's okay for women to go to therapy, but men are afraid that it will be seen as a weakness and that the bullying will only become even harsher.

Men that talk with their friends and family about their anxieties and when they feel the first signs of depression are way less likely to commit suicide, but men still got harmful gender roles that are oppressing them.

But the good thing is that the suicide rates have fallen since the 80s despite TRP screaming about how horrible it is that feminism tells men that it's okay to go to therapy.

GeekyFeministDork · 2017-05-03T21:52:30+00:00

The big problem of enforced 'masculinity' is that it makes men bottle up their emotions and not seek help, which can be lethal in some cases. So one very positive aspect of this systematic 'betaification' of men we feminists have 'imposed' is that many young men are slowly becoming more open to seeking help.

despisedlove2 · 2017-05-04T00:34:13+00:00

Strange that you should leave out the most damning statistic of all: men are between 5-20 times more likely to commit suicide than women in the aftermath of a divorce. Recreational divorces are initiated by women between 70-90% of the time.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2017-05-03T21:05:29+00:00

lol "gender inequality" in suicide are you crazy? no law is making people commit suicide, if more men commit suicide than women thats on each individual man who commits suicide

Electra_Cute · 2017-05-03T21:08:18+00:00

Well, if I recall correctly, and someone please correct me about this, what what you are saying is probable. The ways men commit suicide is far more effective, but women do attempt suicide more. This is just off memory.

Depression in general is an issue I would personally say, in both men and women.

[deleted] · 2017-05-03T23:14:54+00:00

Mix of reasons, but in terms of Domestic violence there aren't as many resources for guys, sometimes they just have nowhere to go. Women have larger/better social networks generally so have more support and people more likely to notice. Also the wanting to be remembered pretty thing, Nanna did her makeup and dressed nice before she swallowed a handful, suicide I guess, but cancer had fucked her quality of life.

Also women tend to be cautious they can take forever to make a reversible decision like which dress to buy even tho they could just fucking return it. When it comes to death I think that they like to leave a way out in case they change their mind.

questioningwoman · 2017-05-04T00:34:52+00:00

Why do RPers always keep mentioning how medicated most women are for anxiety and depression and how sad they are due to feminism yet in the same breath say how men are such victims because they commit suicide more often? They want women to be happier than men when convenient and less happy than men whenever it suits them.

SwixSwax · 2017-05-04T02:18:23+00:00

The suicidal and the depressed are seen as weak by society, regardless of whether they're looked upon with pity or with scorn.

Weakness is an encouraged trait in women because it's considered submissive and submisiveness is seen as desirable. When a woman is suicidal and depressed, society reaches out to help them with their problems because they're women and, therefore, such weakness is to be expected of them.

In men, weakness is reviled and systemically destroyed by both men and women alike. Traditionally masculine and aggressive males pray on weaker men to further cement their own superiority. Women pay lip service to sensitive men being desirable, but are just as quick to alienate them because, in truth, they simply aren't. The result is that these men end up feeling like they have nowhere to go: no network of support, no tangible sympathy, no consolation. They were simply put on this Earth to be rejected and belittled at every turn until they finally "man up" and end their suffering.

I'm sure there are many people reading this post who would like to argue that I'm a misogynist or insensitive or something, but I harbor no prejudice. I am merely stating things as I see them.

Zoidbergluver · 2017-05-03T21:14:57+00:00

That's a useless statistic until it includes all the people who drink and drug themselves to death

midnightvulpine · 2017-05-03T21:36:51+00:00

More women attempt, more men succeed. Generally because men tend to choose more immediate and messy ways to die. Women choose neater, but less certain methods.

Why? Good question. Given a choice between a gun and pills, what would you choose and why? For example.

ppdthrowawai · 2017-05-03T23:19:57+00:00

Some statistics say that more women are depressed than men, but that men choose more certain methods of suicide which is why there are more men who die by suicide.

Thats because if a girls pops a few pills and calls the ER, its logged as a "suicide attempt" whether she actually tried to kill herself or not. It's often times a cry for help/attention.

We also collectively put much, much less emphasis and resources into male health/mental health.

BookwormJane · 2017-05-03T23:29:21+00:00

Toxic masculinity.

Men have to conform more and more to standards of what a man should be like, how they should behave, etc etc.

It's pretty much due to societal pressure, weak or no support from friends or family, etc etc.

There's a very interesting documentary on this called "The Mask You Live In", I highly recommend it.

kkohl98 · 2017-05-04T08:04:48+00:00

Women are more depressed but but don't commit suicide, much rather cut or starve themselves, men just get straight into it. I know I don't want to suffer.

OfSpock · 2017-05-04T02:37:39+00:00

Men have a very high non-compliance rate with taking psychiatric medication because impotence is often a side effect.

Archwinger · 2017-05-04T11:10:16+00:00

There are more expectations and standards placed on men. And harder ones. At a time when men are weaker and more feminized than they've ever been, and more men than ever are failing to measure up. And at a time when society's solution to the epidemic of losers and failures is to try to change the standards instead of changing the failing men.

Men who suck don't need a pat on the head and a hearty "don't worry. You're still a real man even though you suck". They need to be taught how to measure up and not suck, starting as children.

ClarityofDisaster · 2017-05-03T21:09:03+00:00

Men, as a whole, are faced with far more pressures to "man up", decline assistance, and bottle up their emotions than women, in general, are. They also typically have a smaller social circle and thus fewer truly close friends to help them through life's shitfest.

Add to this the representations of men in the media and by our very government as "expendable" and inherently oppressive/guilty by birth, and it all results in males having a higher likelihood to just give up.

It's honestly atrocious.

washington_breadstix · 2017-05-04T06:26:47+00:00

Men are more often forced to bottle up their emotions. And because men are more prone to reckless behavior, we choose methods of suicide that are non-reversible. A woman might be able to seek help after cutting her wrists or even taking pills... but there's not much you can do about a bullet in the temple.

UhKhat · 2017-05-04T09:35:13+00:00

I think men are more likely to commit suicide than women for several reasons. Most are nature, some are nurture.

Nature: Men are generally more black and white about things, in my experience. They often seem to see a failure as something that is more insurmountable than a woman does. Part of this I think is that male brains seem to have more of a singular focus, which can be an advantage, but can also lead to tunnel vision. Meaning if he fails in that endeavour, it's a bigger deal because he doesn't have other things in his focus to move on to. This could be in regards to a professional focus or a relationship one. Add that to male brains being much more prone to aggression and less able to resist impulses, and you have a volatile mix when things go wrong. (All of this can also explain why men are much more likely to commit murder when they are in a depressed state) Male brains also often have fewer connections between their feeling and verbal centres than female brains, making them have more trouble articulating their feelings and this can make it hard for them to reach out and be understood by others.

Nurture: Most men are raised to be more stoic than girls - they are told from quite young that it's 'girly' (read: weak) to cry or talk about your feelings. This leads to social isolation because the man may feel he can't reach out about his internal struggles without being laughed at or told to "suck it up".

dakru · 2017-05-04T12:48:20+00:00

It's simple. Most men are successful at suicide because men choose more certain means

FuckingClassAct · 2017-05-04T14:45:05+00:00

I hate that I can't find the source. I learned during a lecture that statistically, women on average do more suicide attempts, but men succeed in doing so more often. As a result more men have died from suicide than women.

If there is anybody who knows the source, please share! Any additional information is welcome too.

[deleted] · 2017-05-03T21:17:37+00:00

Lack of affection, sex, respect, while working harder relative to women and having easier access to weapons. Higher addiction rates are probably involved too. It's the double whammy of working hard and then not receiving appreciation, either by friends/family or by society. Note: relative to women

Title	Can we discuss the gender inequality of suicide?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	11
Comments	149
Date	May 3, 2017 8:54 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/69348k/can_we_discuss_the_gender_inequality_of_suicide/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/can-we-discuss-the-gender-inequality-of-suicide.268392 https://theredarchive.com/post/268392

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