Are feminists right?

A_Rex · 2017-02-20T13:34:50+00:00

The future is leftist, feminist, globalist. I understand why some people might not like it, but it seems like this is where the world as a whole is going.

Have you been asleep over the past year? It was becoming that way, but Brexit and Trump were a massive rejection and repudiation of all things leftist and globalist. The left has gone way too far with its PC and social engineering bullshit, to the point where you're seeing moderates and old school liberals abandon the Democratic Party in the U.S. If Marine Le Pen wins in France and the Germans open their eyes, it will be the nail in the coffin.

2016 is the beginning of the end for the far left's time in the sun

Aaren_Augustine · 2017-02-20T13:46:11+00:00

would there be a point to have strict gender roles

For mental health, absolutely.

"Enjoy the decline" RP says. And look at what you are saying. Feminists are in essence neutering and spaying everything. They are neutralizing even their own strong and independent power. Of course, they won't ever admit it's their fault they created an environment for some robot genius to create a sex bot that is far more enthusiastic and helpful then the vast majority of American women.

but it seems like this is where the world as a whole is going.

"Enjoy the decline" RP says. Feminists aren't right. Their robbing Brad to pay Angelina. MGTOW just won't be for "losers" after a certain point.

"Don't get married." will fucking suck for a lot of women. And when they start to see a link between feminism and they can't marry the guy they want, shit will change real quick. Most women are great at adapting to social "fashions".

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2017-02-20T13:20:46+00:00

Feminism seems to be on the decline in terms of total membership.

And frankly a society that leaves men behind to benefit women is no better than the reverse.

Unabummer80 · 2017-02-20T13:48:07+00:00

Think about it, the robots will probably be like the new "slaves" and most people won't be able to find a job anyway, so saying the low birth rates will cause an economic problem because there wouldn't be enough workers seems a bit silly to me. There won't be enough workers but there won't be enough jobs anyway because of automation. This is why I said before that the future will be socialist-like.

This will perhaps be the more important point. People are going to have to figure out what the deal is for humans as the need for a workforce declines. We are already at a point where we dont need to work that much, yet work conditions are getting worse for many people as wealth is hoarded. At the same time, lifestyle continues to improve and general conditions continue to improve for most people. So it is confusing.

Perhaps to say it will be 'feminist' is misleading, but more 'feminine' I would say definitely. We are already well on the way. The need to be physically strong is disappearing for example, in favour of just looking good. CCTV makes it harder and harder for casual violence to flourish. 20 years ago my home town centre was full of casual violence, now CCTV makes doing that a big risk.

EsauTheRed · 2017-02-20T14:30:19+00:00

Technology requires maintenance and will never be autonomous, there will always be a need for some kind of physical labor, women don't have the same kinds of pressure applied to them and so turn out to be lazy when they aren't having their hand held by institutions

Technological progress can be lost, and might not be sustainable in the future

You have a scifi view of technology and don't fully understand male nature, if there are enough men not getting any you will see an uptick in rapes, gangs, etc. see ISIS and the Middle East

newaccount201701 · 2017-02-20T14:46:53+00:00

The future is leftist, feminist, globalist.

No, simple answer. Women will never adopt a socialist viewpoint of the sexual marketplace.

squidracer · 2017-02-20T16:08:37+00:00

Ugh, you guys have been whining about automation since the first assembly line.

The reason nobody can find jobs in you country of Greece op is because your country is mostly socialist! So no! We don't want to follow your example

IIHotelYorba · 2017-02-20T22:05:57+00:00

You had better hope the future isn't feminist, or scientologist, or whatever.

The wage gap, rape culture, patriarchy theory, the 1 in 4 stat, the male gaze, objectification, all pseudoscience, right down the line. Plus they're a hate movement because they blame all this dogmatic bullshit on men as a sex. So imagine some sort of combination of Scientology and the KKK.

Saying they are right because we have a general suffrage and equal protection is like saying the Nazis were right because they built the autobahn, and everyone uses highways now. Feminism as a method of describing the world is wrong more than 99% of the time. It is far inferior to any branch of science or any method that uses evidence to make its claims, rather than the philosophical ranting of crazy cat ladies from the 1950s.

ManSentHisOwnWay · 2017-02-20T13:34:50+00:00

I think feminism is right. I don't see what's so disagreeable about what feminists say and I also don't see how feminism has made things worse for people.

In terms of the future being feminist; I think it could be argued that the world has seen a trend of progressiveness for at least 2 centuries now, perhaps even longer. As a progressive myself, and that includes being feminist and a globalist, I used to believe that trend was absolutely destined to continue. Now, I'm not so sure anymore. It might be a bit weak to say that just because of Trump and Brexit but I honestly never believed that 'side' would ever see a major win again. I always knew that there were still plenty racists, nationalists, misogynists, etc. but I never expected them to have the numbers and the vitality to get a win. So while I still think the future will indeed be more progressive (feminist/globalist/leftist) than it is now, there's more uncertainty for me at the moment.

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Princeso_Bubblegum · 2017-02-20T13:51:28+00:00

As a radical lefy, I don't even know where to begin with this post.

You pretty much asked: "as a nationalist, I see that neo-liberal capitalism is successful on capitalizing on radical movements, and turning them into digestible bites for the new global neo-liberal order. Maybe this is something we should just be chill with."

cesarema · 2017-02-20T14:18:26+00:00

I doubt that will happen. The Reactionary backlash would be too strong thank God.

Alth12 · 2017-02-20T14:22:56+00:00

It's not a guarenteed future, if anything the world is on the brink. Human history is filled with brief sparks of progressive thinking. The Roman Empire on the whole was accepting of all races religions and creeds provided they left ultimate authority to Rome.

I know people will point to the Christians here, but really they weren't following their own book, and many of those persecuted were because they refused to pay taxes."Give unto Caesar..." was ignored. In Rome you weren't discriminated against due to your race or religion just because it was your race or religion (until towards the end). Then the dark ages came, and knowledge and ideas burned.

The Muslims created a progressive and inclusive caliphate filled with science, tolerance and understanding with none of the restrictions on women's clothing and lives it has now. Then the Mongols came and Islamic culture has never really recovered.

When I look at the world I don't see this utopian future as guarenteed. War seems only a stone's throw away and we are only one button push, one accidental release of a man made weaponized virus away from oblivion and having to start all over again.

Human progress is not a straight upwards trajectory. In fact looking at history we're overdue a kick in the nuts.

anitapk · 2017-02-20T14:51:59+00:00

Who says that if there aren't enough jobs those few that work will want to share their money with everyone who doesn't work? The majority of people could starve or die of malnutrition like always happened.

Ercole-- · 2017-02-20T15:24:01+00:00

Broken clock... We'll live like an actual community eventually and it'll be a result of people seeing their oppression, but that doesn't make feminists correct about anything else they say. In fact, they're stalling the process significantly by diverting attention away from the actual problem.

rufflethesefeathers · 2017-02-20T16:53:21+00:00

A lot of patriarchal nations are also slowly becoming more feminist (India for example where many note that feminist beliefs are definitely becoming more popular) and with globalization and immigration it wouldn't be far-fetched if the trend continues to grow.

For the wealthy in India this is true. Lots of India is still preindustrial and very patriarchal due to living in preindustrial society

Automation is also the future and the idea that robots will take care of most of the things does not seem far-fetched. This will definitely lead to a future that is more socialist-like.

You underestimate how little the wealthy care about the poor. They will make sure they own automatons and we will be lucky if we get basic income

globalization

globalization and socialism are incompatible. You are looking for internationalist, as in the wage earners across the globe coming together.

future will be more feminist-like.

no. you haven't made the case for that. socialism isn't inherently feminist. it does not focus on liberating one gender and it definitely isn't considered with bourgeois lena dunham beyonce tswift feminism

There won't be enough workers but there won't be enough jobs anyway because of automation. This is why I said before that the future will be socialist-like.

you should read about socialism before just making these kinds of assumptions

globalization seems to be winning over nationalism

two sides of the same dirty capitalist coin.

kick6 · 2017-02-20T18:15:32+00:00

Honestly, I think your future is far too incomplete a picture to really have an kind of meaningful discussion.

I also think some of the facts you're rolling in are inaccurate. The world doesn't have a low birth rate, we just have a larger proportion of births occuring at a below-avreage intelligence point (translation: third worlders are fucking like mad). It does make sense that

a socialist-like, technologically advanced, pro-globalization future will be more feminist-like.

But that future doesn't make any sense. You're assuming that now - today - our species has "cured" itself of it's tribalism, and it demonstrably hasn't. Brexit and Trump are proof that there is a real push back against the globohomo agenda.

questioningwoman · 2017-02-20T20:58:27+00:00

I think the future will call for pragmatism. Some things the left has right and other things the right has right. Politics to me is goal focused, not political loyalty focused.

I think we should have a future where we all have jobs. If half the jobs are automated, we can make the work week 20 hours a week yet keep everyone on the pay for 40 hours a week. I don't have confidence that the automatic wages will be enough to get you in the middle class. Let's just say I'm refusing to give up my standard of living. I don't care it's a different generation. I refuse to pay for choices other people made. I'll live on credit and loans all my life if I have to. I shouldn't have to be forced into danger.

COPCO2 · 2017-02-20T22:12:15+00:00

You're mixing a bunch of things together that don't belong.

Feminism is not globalism or socialism. You may not believe me, but if you want to understand any one of these things, you need to stop thinking they are all the same, or even related. They are not.

Feminism isn't seeking a global order or anti-capitalist economies. It is very, very narrow, and unrelated to those things. Feminism is theory in the humanities, and it is only one of many. It is not less or more powerful than other humanities theories, and it's not the only way to view the world.

Feminism is a perspective that looks specifically for power inequalities related to gender. It's kinda similar to Marxism because that looks for power inequalities related to class and money. Many theories aren't related to power dynamics at all, but are looking for other relationships in human interactions.

None of them are 'right' or 'wrong,' they only exist to reveal a new way of seeing something; to reveal new information.

Here's an example: women are paid less than men, on average. A feminist may say that sexism is the underlying cause, a Marxist may say that the upper classes always seek to subjugate the lower classes, and because women have only recently entered the workforce, they are more likely to be from a lower class, and their lower pay is reflective of their economic status, not gender status.

Which one of those is correct? Well, they can both be correct, and they can both be wrong. They are different, but they can coexist. The point is to reveal new ways of looking at the world.

So, back to your examples. Feminism isn't 'right.' Feminism is trying to reveal what many people feel are unfair gender dynamics, and then try to correct them through various ways. In one way, Feminism and Marxism may agree: that women entering the workforce can be good for an economy by increasing the available talent pool. That may be why these things look related, but they aren't.

So no, feminism isn't 'right,' or 'wrong.' It's just a tool to show off that sometimes, gender dynamics are totally fucked up and no one realized it because we were all looking at it from a different perspective.

Similarly, there is now a growing "Male Studies" that looks at social issues from the perspective of men. This is yet another tool, and can co-exist alongside feminism just fine. In fact, many situations may be unfair to both men and women, and feminism would reveal the female half, and male studies the male half. In this way, a crappy situation for everyone can be understood and addressed.

If you want to talk about globalism and socialism, that's going to require a few more posts, but they are different subjects entirely.

daveofmars · 2017-02-20T23:35:00+00:00

Someone needs to study Hegel.

daveofmars · 2017-02-20T23:46:27+00:00

However, I think the future will be feminist. With the way things are going it seems only rational that the world will evolve that way.

And yet so many predictions turn out wrong, see Trump and Brexit.

The Left is incapable of making future predictions because it is incapable of realizing the consequences of their own actions.

For example, you seem to think that the future will be more feminist, but you want to import refugees from Muslim countries who don't respect women and have pre-50's social beliefs. Not 1950. 1650.

The Left in America wants to import more Mexican nationals, who are definitely more religious and catholic than any other group, and if they gain power would probably get rid of Planned Parenthood.

The Left in America also wants to have welfare with no conditions so that blacks repopulate, but give no future for their children. I don't know if you've taken in the "urban culture" but it is not very respectful toward women.

And I don't know where you think all this automation is going to come from, but it won't come from inner-city schools or radically religious people. It'll come from Asian and white "westerners" who are reproducing at ~1.5 kids a couple. So tell me what the class size going to be from the west's top engineering schools?

What you think is inevitable definitely has an expiration date if you take the current trends to their conclusion.

soccerstar77 · 2017-02-21T04:07:16+00:00

We already don't even need sex to procreate

Um, your going to have to explain this one.

This will definitely lead to a future that is more socialist-like.

You have it backwards. Socialism positively correlates with lower levels of freedom. You should read how Mao made dating illegal fro a number of years in China.

It makes sense that a socialist-like, technologically advanced, pro-globalization future will be more feminist-like

Globalization is caused by capitalism, not socialism. Nations become more globalized when capitalism investments in those nations increases. China and India became globalized when they opened themselves up to trade.

Randommorningkiller · 2017-02-21T08:48:47+00:00

Feminism in all it's forms is just part of a cycle. Empires are born from adversity, they overdose on comfort, they cater to their women and then they die.

jonah___ · 2017-02-20T14:00:32+00:00

I absolutely agree that feminism is mainly a consequence of technological advances (the pill, mostly).

But I'm not so sure about the ties to socialism, even though there are a lot of shared values, socialism so far has failed time and time again. Probably because of a mismatch with the basic human psychological structure or rather how humans get motivated. It seems unlikely to me that it would succeed in the end. But of course it's always a tempting idea, so it will always be around.

What that means for feminism I don't know, I think the current state of moderate feminism will just be normal soon and the more extreme stuff will only be discussed in small radical groups, just as with any other extreme position.

Title	Are feminists right?
Author	ThatGreekLady
Upvotes	5
Comments	212
Date	February 20, 2017 1:19 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/5v4hdv/are_feminists_right/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/are-feminists-right.269992 https://theredarchive.com/post/269992

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