"Sexual strategy is amoral.". What does this mean to you?

dakru · 2016-06-10T01:06:43+00:00

The meaning that makes sense: in terms of sexual success (reproduction and attraction), what works is not always the same as what's moral. We don't live in a universe where bad people and bad actions always get punished.

For example, cheating, cuckoldry, and rape can all result in reproductive success. Obviously with modern contraception, abortion, and paternity testing (even if it's not as used as it could be), these things don't work in quite the same way now. A more relevant example for modern times would be how being an asshole to a woman you're interested in can be more effective than more moral approaches, depending on how you pull it off.

This is important because a lot of people really do start with the (usually unstated) assumption that "people get what they deserve". It really is common to believe that good people get rewarded and bad people get punished. And sometimes they do, but not as a rule.

The meaning that doesn't make sense: some people use this phrase to dismiss any moral criticism of the sexual strategy they take, as if as long as it's effective then moral concerns are invalid. But the fact that morality and effectiveness are separate doesn't mean preclude me from caring about the morality of your actions, judging you negatively, and letting my judgements be known. (Of course, unless it's a legal issue, you also don't have to take my judgements seriously.)

After all, "financial strategy is amoral" too. What makes you money isn't always the same as what's moral. But I can still criticize or shun someone who makes money through theft, fraud, or anything like that, or even through legal means that excessively pollute the environment (e.g. having an effect on other people's health).

Entropy-7 · 2016-06-10T01:15:02+00:00

My top-level, most upvotes comment here

midnightvulpine · 2016-06-10T00:30:19+00:00

It's a way to abdicate one's own responsibility when it comes to dealing with other people. A strategy itself might be amoral, but a strategy is not a thinking, feeling human being. People have morals, positive and/or negative. And they make willful choices in how to interact with other humans. And, in the end, they have to deal with the consequences of those interactions, positive and negative.

rulenumber303 · 2016-06-10T08:40:07+00:00

Until someone does something the person claiming sexual strategy is amoral doesn't like. Then oh the humanity.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2016-06-10T01:17:42+00:00

it means that the strategies offered are to achieve X, Y or Z goals without regard to the "moral content" or moral consequences of the actions. its up to the individual to add that part or care about it

[deleted] · 2016-06-10T23:17:54+00:00

Nothing, it's stupid, and one of the areas in which I disagree with TRP.

What they should be saying is that the information is amoral, not the strategies they suggest. One could make the argument, if you're a moral subjectivist, that morals are subjective, but even so, you'd be forced to agree that most of society has fast and hard boundaries on what is generally considered "asshole", rude, or mean spirited behavior, and what it means to treat others badly. If you're operating outside those norms, you can't defensibly ignore that that is what you are doing.

The Red Pill (subreddit) has always been about moralizing. It's only recently have I seen the new RedPillers start claiming it's amoral and can't be contended on those grounds...it's almost supplicatory in it's defensiveness.

ozymandias271 · 2016-06-10T01:35:21+00:00

All's fair in love in war. Relationships exist in a black box of complexity and opportunism. Play to win. If you choose not to out of some misguided morality, take responsibility and do not expect others to share your ethical considerations.

Blackbeard345 · 2016-06-10T02:35:42+00:00

It's a way to deal with the judgments brought against them regarding the blatant sexism and occasional misogyny. "We just tell you the facts, we don't assign morality."

It's a cop out. It's a cowardly refusal to own what they preach.

And for the even less evolved TRP minion it translates into "doesn't matter, had sex."

dakru · 2016-06-10T01:34:59+00:00

Here's me explaining it to someone else a while back.

An idea does not have a moral value. Only after an idea has been put into action does it have a moral value. Otherwise you're talking about thought-crime.

meh613 · 2016-06-10T04:01:05+00:00

Sexual strategy is amoral means to me that the strategy I adopt is equally valid to the strategy that anyone else adopts.

[deleted] · 2016-06-10T04:09:45+00:00

It means that that sexual attraction and the strategies one thinks of to fulfill sexual desires are at the core amoral. People fulfill lust through decisions not grounded in morality.

[deleted] · 2016-06-10T04:20:04+00:00

That it's a tool. A hammer is also amoral.

GoldPisseR · 2016-06-10T06:09:22+00:00

Sex and relationships are two completely different things.

A guy doesn't need to be nice at all to have sex. If he is rich and good looking he can use women as fucktoys and they'll still keep coming.

I am talking about women who want his commitment.

[deleted] · 2016-06-10T08:48:04+00:00

It's an easy excuse to not face consquences. Plain and simple. They usually pair it with the excuse "women don't face consequences, either", wich is a mostly fake perception and doesn't really adress the question. Someone being a prick doesn't give you a free pass to be one yourself.

alreadyredschool · 2016-06-10T10:19:49+00:00

Sexual success is indifferent to morals.

Sepean · 2016-06-10T12:18:40+00:00

TRP is a discussion of sexual strategy and like any other strategy, observation or theory, it is amoral. It is a discussion about how things are and how they work; no more, no less. Discussions about effectiveness and accuracy should not be sidetracked by morality issues.

It is not an excuse for immoral actions.

648262 · 2016-06-10T12:39:09+00:00

A strategy is a tool, like a hammer for example.

I can use a hammer any way I see fit. If I use it to hurt other people then I am the bad one.

The hammer is just a hammer.

[deleted] · 2016-06-10T13:18:02+00:00

It simply means TRP has no interest in moral issues.

I personally think that this limits the sexual success of the average twerp, since it's clear to me that overt moralising/virtue signalling is something women find extremely panty-wetting.

GaiusScaevolus · 2016-06-10T14:20:22+00:00

Information exists, and is neither moral nor immoral.
Finding the causal relationship between factors/events using information is neither moral, nor immoral.
Sex is not inherently moral or immoral, either as a desire or practice.
Strategy is not inherently moral or not, and though specific strategies can be immoral, this does not make the concept of strategy itself immoral.

The moral component comes from actions, not thoughts or words, and just because certain sexual strategies (rape) are immoral, doesn't mean the whole body of thought that is sexual strategy is immoral.

PS: Rape also happens to be a terrible sexual strategy.

prodigy2throw · 2016-06-10T14:44:31+00:00

If I give you a formula to make an element that has the ability to power a generator or make a weapon. Was my formula moral or immoral?

blobOfNeurons · 2016-06-11T08:17:19+00:00

It means the mere act of planning and then deliberately following that plan is not in itself good or evil. It's not wrong or right to strategize. The reason the phrase speaks of sexual strategy in particular is because there is a strong cultural tendency to view deliberate and direct attempts to increase one's sexual success as being dishonest and disturbing, and therefore immoral. Without any information about the strategy itself the act of "Strategically managing one's finances to increase one's savings". Replace that with 'sex life'/'sex' and people get a bad taste in their mouth.

[deleted] · 2016-06-11T12:45:58+00:00

"One must do whatever it takes to have consensual sex, because the ones that are having sex are."

[deleted] · 2016-06-11T13:33:28+00:00

To me, it's the equivalent of saying a gun is amoral.

The gun itself is not good or bad. How it's used is what makes it moral or immoral.

Sexual strategy just is. There are certain things that turn people on. These are neither good or bad.

Hillary_For_Prison · 2016-06-11T20:38:19+00:00

It means certain people (sluts, chads and wannabes) want to believe their sexual strategies have no moral significance. The belief is necessary so that sluts and chads can "enjoy the decline."

This is delusional. Sexual strategy is not amoral. Being promiscuous does actual harm to society. Specifically, every promiscuous woman who is riding the cock carousel is a woman who isn't settling down and making babies, a woman who isn't contributing to the next generation. Similarly, every promiscuous man partaking of the vagina velodrome is failing to be part of the next generation. The result is a demographic implosion.

Nature abhors a vacuum. The demographic implosion in the West is being filled with migrants and invaders.

And that's the decline.

Are you enjoying it?

betterdeadthanbeta · 2016-06-12T05:57:37+00:00

Its a very context dependent phrase. If you look at the author of the OP from whence that quote is derived, he was making a point about social contract theory. Namely that what is "moral" tends to be defined by universality. ALmost everyone can agree that killing (outside of war, self defense, etc) is wrong because no one wants to be randomly murdered. There seems a benefit of opting into this policy, since, most people are more concerned about preventing their early death than being able to kill whoever troubles them at great risk to themselves.

Sexual strategy is different though, namely because male and female imperatives are at odds. Male sexual strategy is heavily influenced by the cheapness of sperm; they want to mate frequently, with a multitude of sperm recipients, after little cost/time investment. Female imperatives are based on the expensiveness and risk of carrying a child to term; they want the best possible mate, and extraction of maximal resources/commitment from that mate.

Since there's little common ground, it's difficult if not impossible to form a social contract that includes both genders. So, hard to find moral rules that both sides would agree on.

SilentLurker666 · 2016-06-10T02:03:01+00:00

It's a complete lie. Both gender has sexual strategies. Often male's sexual strategies is to spread their seed out often as possible Often female's sexual strategies is two staged: 1. Find the partner with the best gene, 2. Find the partner who'll provide the most while she's pregnant to ensure survival and better quality of live for her future offspring.

Remember strat·e·gy ˈstradəjē/ noun a plan of action or policy designed to achieve a major or overall aim. "time to develop a coherent economic strategy"

i.e. Female withholding sex is also a sexual strategy, and there's nothing amoral to that. Similarly by itself a male wanting sex is also not amoral. Without such games, your parents will not conceive and you will not even exist.

TheChemist158 · 2016-06-10T00:49:19+00:00

Ideas and concepts do not have any inherent morality. It is up to you to execute those ideas in a way that is coherent with your own moral compass.

I think the reason this is often an issue between the pills is because bloops tend to outright reject the idea of morality being subjective in the first place while terps assume this is the case right from the start.

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Title	"Sexual strategy is amoral.". What does this mean to you?
Author	JuniperSunshine
Upvotes	2
Comments	236
Date	June 10, 2016 12:17 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/4ndrmr/sexual_strategy_is_amoral_what_does_this_mean_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/sexual-strategy-is-amoral-what-does-this-mean-to.274367 https://theredarchive.com/post/274367

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