RPers, are there aspects of TRP you would like to see change? Feminists, are there aspects of feminism you'd like to see change?

Interversity · 2016-02-12T19:30:02+00:00

Most guys are absolute tools on the TRP sub and I understand why others hate them. "Yeah brah I demonstrated my higher value to that HB9 so hard that her hypergamous gina tingles couldn't help but tremble at how alfalfa I was". In general just a lot of pointless aggression and slinging around of terms that are sometimes useful but easy to abuse. The TRP strikes me as what would happen if you merged the personalities of a socially inept sperg with the arrogance of a high school jock.

However, toolishness of the community aside, that doesn't make them wrong.

cuittler · 2016-02-12T19:46:34+00:00

Feminism:

Actually reach out to reach women who suffer such as those in South Asia, the Middle East and violent ghettos rather than only existing in tame white suburban areas where you know the guys are such pussies you can say whatever bullshit you want and know you will never be challenged.

Take this guy, he really has had something done on him

alreadyredschool · 2016-02-12T20:33:17+00:00

Trp should lay out the plan clearer for newbies.

Too many people get it wrong.

How about a nice list of heuristics/mindsets, actually just list all the tools, make a toolbox mega thread like the one about the laws of power. Maybe r/trpcore or aleadyred could do that, new subs need good oc to grow.

Rough draft:

Always blame yourself, self responsibility goes a long way.

There are no unicorns.

Briffaults law always applies.

Oneitis is the mind killer, the only thing to fear is Oneitis itself, turn the inner eye, only I remain. (Yes I don't know that quote that well, for those who don't get the reference DUNE)

Be the prize, have an abundance mentality

Give less fucks.

Be non judgemental.

Adopt a student mentality.

Find and pursue your mission.

Everything is learnable, everything is on a spectrum.

...

Split the awalt mindset into different mindsets and just spout it in return to know nothingness and "all generalisations are bad".

The hatred for game has to go, yes pua game sucks, but game is you putting yourself put there and flirting, not using pick up lines and scripts, it's showing the world your awesome personality thanks to the mindsets you nurtured.

The useless criticisms twerp has for women mainly revolve around how they treat omegas, so yeah, who cares, whine somewhere else

People who refuse to answer hypergamy with self improvement should be banned or refrain from posting. Black pill and mgtow too unless they talk about awesome ways to spend time.

Start a martial art you like should be spouted as often as lift.

There is value in fiction stories, rp should make a book list of good fiction.

Compatibility, remind people that valuing monogamy is a trait people have and if you want a poly/mono relationship then find someone who shares your view

Add the book of pook to the sidebar, remove Michaels story from the side bar.

Make ARS a mod

Got 2 go now, I think I once hosted a thread on here which asked rp what they dislike about their sub. There you will find more criticism.

Oh and since everyone is a feminist:

feminism should tackle the ongoing cultural misandry which is accepted by everyone.

leftajar · 2016-02-12T20:06:38+00:00

I would like to see RP discussions move back towards pure pickup tactics. Lifting, grooming, and RP theory are all nice, but... at some point you have to talk to the girl. The main sub is weak on outer game.

prodigy2throw · 2016-02-12T20:34:07+00:00

TRP tends to get very bitter sometimes. Seems like a lot of guys go out hunting for news stories and social media posts that highlight shitty women doing shitty things.

Mans gotta learn to internalize AWALT and move along.

diFFzee · 2016-02-12T21:24:41+00:00

TRP: those guys should make a whine/vent thread and like stick all the "shit women do" in there. Clean the place up a bit cause whenever I browse it's just a massive fucking whinefest.

Feminism: Third wave is collection of individual problems exaggerated into massive hyperbole. And an obsession with victim culture. Victims. Victims everywhere. And triggers. For people that can't handle an opinion 0.01% different than their own. Lose that shit, it's boring.

EmpressofMars · 2016-02-13T04:55:28+00:00

Feminist here, hello!

There are a couple of things I'd love to see happen to restore the credibility of the feminist movement.

Get rid of the TERFs. TERFs for those who don't know are "trans-exclusive radical feminists," AKA they think trans women aren't "real women" which is some bullshit and it's needlessly excluding women. If you wanna be a feminist you gotta have intersectional feminist views, and include demographics that aren't like you or are traditionally underserved.
Focus on issues facing women of color and women not in first-world countries. Oftentimes the modern feminist movement focuses on "micro-aggressions" and stuff like that, and tends to focus on the "plight" of middle to upper middle class white women. While some micro-aggressions such as catcalling I agree are detrimental as they contribute to objectification and a sense of being unsafe, I wish there was more attention on issues facing women not in first world countries (such as lack of education and reproductive rights, child marriage, sexual slavery, etc) and facing women of color and LGBT+ women (racism + sexism double whammy, homophobia and transphobia). Feminist icons should in my view be a little less Lena Dunham and a little more Malala Yousafzai.
Use more gender-neutral language when talking about rape, sexual assault and domestic abuse. Unfortunately we tend to focus on the male aggressor/female victim dynamic when talking about these sorts of issues. And while this type of situation is unfortunately common and arguably makes up the bulk of cases, it alienates nontraditional victims such as men and those in same-sex relationships, leaving them with no-one to turn to and a feeling of isolation. As an extension on that, I think we should also point out the dangers and serious consequences that false accusations have, and how they harm survivors of sexual assault and victims of domestic violence so that people don't use accusations as a tool to manipulate others and get what they want.
Get the children away from our movement. If I have to see another "KILL ALL MEN !!1!!!ONE!!!!" 13-year old who's pissed because her middle school boyfriend dumped her I'm gonna have some words.
Tone down the violence. In the "kill all men" vein we have grown women advocating for violence against men, which is exactly the opposite of what the movement is about! Feminism is about equalizing the genders, not making one higher than another, and certainly not about killing people.
Treat men as allies, not as aggressors. This one should be pretty self explanatory. Hate begets hate, and by looking at a group as an adversary instead of as an inroad to progress and change only sets the movement back.

Interversity · 2016-02-12T19:51:59+00:00

Explaining away toxic, counterproductive thoughts and feelings with 'anger phase'. I'm not saying there's no way an anger phase exists, but every instance of someone talking about their ridiculously fucked up views is explained away with 'anger phase noob' or something similar. That's bullshit.
AWALT. It's not nuanced enough. I get that this helps guys who are super indoctrinated, but it also helps create counterproductive thoughts and feelings. 'All guns are loaded', sure, but people don't develop a fear or hatred of guns due to 'all guns are loaded'. This is a really annoying topic, because I can both see the point of AWALT and why it would help some people, but I also see why it limits or hinders others. I just wish it would be revised to something with a little more awareness
Casual 'fucking women are all bitches and worthless whores, subhuman scum, etc.' It's not 'locker room talk', it's fucking bullshit that stirs up unnecessary anger and paranoia. No one will challenge this stuff on TRP because there are so few other places where it is tolerated, so it just explodes out everywhere. It's also annoying to go through once you've already digested the red pill, so to speak, which is I think the reason that so many guys who have a good understanding of TRP stop participating in the actual sub. Further, I think the general quality of RPers is much better than what the comments would portray. I suspect there are a lot of guys who mostly lurk and aren't loud-mouthed idiots in the comments.
Mods and ECs have gone to shit. Lots of anger-production, provoking outside groups, generally shitty quality of posts from many ECs. Also the cashing in of several figures higher up in the group just reeks of bad faith to me. I understand, who am I to tell them where to market, but it just seems dirty and corrupt to me for whatever reason.
Attitude of infallibility. 'You don't like X? You can fuck off or get banned, concern troll' I see it here all the time too. Lots of RPers arguing in bad faith, using shitty arguments, ad hominem, etc. and acting like they've understood the world at a higher plane than BPers. This is mildly infuriating to me, as I want nothing more from PPD than a civil, calm place where serious, in depth discussions can be had. Not idiots flinging shit at each other and trying to provoke anger in the other with outlandish, absurd statements and ideas (lauren collins with her 'castrate all men' type shit, better dead than beta, etc.) Just makes everyone who discusses the pills look retarded.
Taking the most extreme possible view whenever some woman mistreats a man (i.e. divorce rape happens, 'remember gents all women are whores who want to steal half your money and stamp on your balls'). Both stupid and toxic.

There's a lot more. It's hard to organize all the complaints :)

Edit: A quote from our one true lord and savior Mark Manson

A man could be well-educated, he could study medicine and psychology, he could understand that every statistical measurement, both physical and mental, every psychometric, every personality trait, can be distributed across a bell-curve in a large enough population. He could understand the power of cultural influences on personal belief systems and how neuroplasticity molds our mental processes to match our environmental stimuli.

He could know and understand all of this, yet still believe that for some reason, all women are manipulative and irrational. Not some, ALL. Why?

Well, throughout his life, he’s made irrational decisions to date irrational and emotional women, women who have manipulated him and generally made his life a living hell. It was his decision to date them. But rather than admit that to himself (that would, after all, be rational), it’s easier to believe that EVERY woman, all 3.5 billion of them, is born with some sort of neurological or ethical deficiency that men (read: himself) doesn’t have — even though there is absolutely no scientific evidence for it and there’s an entire social movement fighting against irrational gender beliefs such as this.

Sound familiar?

/

So the friendly way she jokes about your hair is suddenly manipulation. That honest question about whether you miss your ex sometimes is manipulation. That concern that you don’t speak to your mother enough is manipulation.

This is a shitty way to live and a shitty way to date women.

Yes, everyone is manipulative some of the time, and some women are manipulative a lot of the time. But walking around freaking out that women are shit-testing you all the time is labeling them all guilty without a trial.

You are choosing to interpret everything women say to you as manipulative and emotional, and then go around complaining that all women are manipulative and emotional.

The issue here isn’t women. It’s you. You don’t trust them.

cxj · 2016-02-12T21:29:26+00:00

Way way too much negativity. I cannot stand it. I lived through a real false accusation and it almost ruined my life, and I'm not even mad at my ex anymore. I am wary and distrustful of the legal system but not mad about it. If I can get over the worst case scenario other dudes can get over chicks being hypergamous or whatever. I wish trp looked more like googlookingloser and didn't have tantrums about single mothers.

One of the stronger Mano sphere points is that accumulation won't make you happy or get girls. There should be more emphasis on flexible schedule career choices to free up time to do shit like gym, cooking, reading and outdoors shit and hobbies. Less stem encouragement, 8 to 5 jobs are not the ticket to promiscuity or an awesome life for most people.

Dietyz · 2016-02-12T23:42:18+00:00

I think TRP should encourage therapy in addition to the other core values it promotes, but not as a replacement like TBPers promote

wattwatty · 2016-02-13T03:31:01+00:00

It's all the right-wing-nuttery that a lot of TRPers think derives from "traditional gender roles." One, I don't give a shit about traditional gender roles - I do not think they kept AWALT tendencies in check or completely suppressed them. Even if they did, so what? They were still there. And, women had a shittier existence with those roles in place. I do not want women to have a shittier existence. I just want me to have a less-shitty existence.

Second, one doesn't follow from the other in any event. The notion that "liberals is pussies!" just isn't related to what I find useful in TRP.

wombatinaburrow · 2016-02-13T12:55:11+00:00

Getting rid of TERFers would be a good start. Making all the teenaged, white, suburban princesses to take a gap year digging wells or long drops so that third world girls can have access to a toilet and be able to wash during menstruation, and handing out sanitary supplies so these girls could attend school eould be a better one.

[deleted] · 2016-02-12T22:04:58+00:00

There are some posters below who explained their criticisms of TRP much better than I could. Go read /u/cxj and /u/Interversity.

As for BP... I believe that Feminism is the radical belief that women should be allowed to do whatever they like with their lives, just as men are allowed to do, and that individual women are the best situated to define their own lives as they see fit. Anything that interferes with that (including from self-described "feminists"), I oppose.

daveofmars · 2016-02-13T00:10:18+00:00

Yes.

The younger Millennials entering the red pill are less socialized than the generations that came before, and as such they can take Red Pill knowledge out of context or stretch it way too far. I believe they are responsible for the cringyest aspects TRP.

I can't tell you how many guys , at age 19 noless, say that their life is over and there's no hope for them. Or how many guys have been reading TRP for six months and think they can tell other guys how to act.

Immaturity is giving TRP a bad reputation.

smh

WrensPens · 2016-02-13T01:24:47+00:00

Yeah that fucking shit over in the main sub that I have to wear a fucking tinfoil hat for. It's like weird ass infowars shit.

raindient · 2016-02-13T03:22:58+00:00

I would like to see TRP spend less time on futile MRA social change. I'm only interested in what they know about what women respond to, and anyway MRAs have their own sub.

Amethhyst · 2016-02-13T11:58:06+00:00

The label 'feminist' really is fairly meaningless these days, because what one person thinks of a feminist could be vastly different from anther's interpretation (I imagine this is the case with TRP too). Anyway, broadly speaking about issues commonly associated with the modern feminism:

I want Tumblr Feminism and the likes of 'trigger warnings' to die in a fire. I think there's too much political correctness in the modern movement, and a lot of feminists seem to go looking to take offence where none was intended. We don't need to be hyper-sensitive about everything. Feminism IMO is supposed to be about eradicating social barriers - not painting women as delicate little flowers who wilt when they come across something that they find disagreeable. Man the fuck up, ladies. There needs to be less casual man-bashing and more acceptance of female accountability. 'Hetrosexual White Men' are not The Devil. Less of a focus on non-issues, and an appreciation that many of the things feminists complain about are also issues for men, would be nice too. Also, fat acceptance can fuck off from feminism.

In terms of issues to adopt, I'd like to see Western feminism tackle the ways in which women can hurt men - let's push for changing out of date court system and alimony laws; let's look at ending the unfair bias for women in custody battles; let's talk about female aggressors more; and let's have more of an appreciation for men in general.

cookiebootz · 2016-02-12T21:50:26+00:00

Many feminist spaces seem to focus on a set of issues affecting a predominately rich, young, and white subset of women. I would like that to be different.

I work with kids so the enthusiasm gap between boys and girls in education is important to me, so is the way boys are punished for deviating from gender roles at such an early age. I think coming at male gender roles from a feminist perspective could generate a lot of discussion but there don't seem to be a lot of well-established places for that. It's not that I think there's a general hostility to the actual issues men face, it's that they've been brought up so many times disingenuously just to detract from a conversation about women's issues so there's often a very strong reaction to it.

I try to make these things a little better by looking for alternative feminist subs to give myself a better idea of what other people look for in feminism. In real life, I try to make sure the kids I teach don't punish each other for acting outside their gender role, which is usually expressed by liking the wrong color or toy or whatever.

ProbablyBelievesIt · 2016-02-12T19:49:36+00:00

I'm not sure I'd count myself feminist anymore, because the label is meaningless. Corporate shark? Feminist. Idealistic human rights advocate? Feminist. Toxic internet troll? Feminist. Someone just trying their best not to screw up a complicated subject like in-group/outgroup dynamics? Feminist.

A porn director and someone trying to make what she does illegal are both feminists. So are a woman advocating for survivors of domestic abuse, and the domestic abuser.

It's all confusing as Hell to anyone who isn't a feminist. And it's especially confusing to those who want to be confused, and hope to confuse more people about it.

It makes it difficult to help anyone, if they automatically think I hate them, or those they care about.

ZenNate · 2016-02-13T04:10:11+00:00

Whenever TRP gets angry, it gets counterproductive. There is no reason to be mad at women. TRP is just a movement about the way things are. Passing judgment on the way things are is pointless. It can't be changed. I feel like you need to spend only a few hours reading RP philosophy and then you're good. Move on with your life. The principles are simple enough. If you're making 100 posts a year on TRP, you're wasting your life.

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UncharminglyWitty · 2016-02-12T22:34:00+00:00

I don't like TRP trying to justify itself through science. It's pretty much all bullshit, from both sides.

I don't really care if people are the way they are because of genetics or cultural up bringing. I only care that they are how they are. I don't give a shit if AWALT is because science or because upbringing. I just care if it is or isn't, in my own personal life. And in my own personal life AWALT is true 95% of the time and that's good enough for me. Because it is true for me in going to find and stick with strategies that work in that world. I don't care if it's generalizable, and I don't think TRP as a whole should care either.

Title	RPers, are there aspects of TRP you would like to see change? Feminists, are there aspects of feminism you'd like to see change?
Author	LucilioVanini
Upvotes	8
Comments	169
Date	February 12, 2016 7:24 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/45gcze/rpers_are_there_aspects_of_trp_you_would_like_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/rpers-are-there-aspects-of-trp-you-would-like-to.276275 https://theredarchive.com/post/276275

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