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How I landed a job in finance and how it's done wonders for my SMV and - ultimately - life.

[deleted]

May 5, 2015
76 upvotes
/r/TheRedPill
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Title How I landed a job in finance and how it's done wonders for my SMV and - ultimately - life.
Author

[deleted]
Upvotes 76
Comments 234
Date May 5, 2015 7:08 PM UTC
(11 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/34z15j/how_i_landed_a_job_in_finance_and_how_its_done/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/how-i-landed-a-job-in-finance-and-how-its-done.32238
https://theredarchive.com/post/32238
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Comments

[–]apackofwankers80 points81 points82 points 11 years ago (74 children) | Copy Link

You really don't want an SMV based on your income. You're going to attract gold diggers, not normal human beings.

One piece of advice, NEVER EVER discuss your finances with a woman. Don't talk about your bonuses, don't talk about your raise - don't even celebrate with them. As far as your women are concerned, the state of your finances should be a complete mystery. Your financial successes and failures are none of their business.

Get your bank statements sent to a PO box, and make sure your computer is locked down. The women in your life are going to be extremely curious about your finances, to the point of hacking your computer. Not all of them, but many of them. Beef up your security.

[–]tedcase16 points17 points18 points 11 years ago (32 children) | Copy Link

Nothing wrong with gold diggers. They are easy fucks and disposable. As long as you don't marry them or get them preggers like an idiot, they are completely powerless.

[–]apackofwankers29 points30 points31 points 11 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

Nope, nothing wrong with banging gold diggers - the problem is that they are often smart and hide their true natures pretty well.

For example, I dated a woman who was smart, had her own career, insisted on splitting every bill, and refused gifts outside of gift-giving season. Surprise! Gold Digger.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire211 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

Ah, the treaded Gold-digger 2.0, aka the GD 2000, seamlessly presenting a facade of pure intentions.

So, then, I'm curious. How did you actually find out? Also, were there any warning signs or red flags?

[–]kranos3321 points22 points23 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I had a similiar situation, where I dated an ex-finance girl. I work in tech, and I make over 200k, so I am relatively desirable. She put a great facade for a while, but there was leakage here and there. In a moment of clarify, when we were coming back from an event (she had a couple of drinks), she admitted that the main point she found me attractive was in my job, that is always stable and in demand. (i.e. a good engineer is always employed).

Then came the little things: She wished my apartment was bigger, nice, in a nicer location. Comparing to her finance friends that make 300k-500k+ a year, and the lavish stuff they did, (and often unhealthy).

etc. etc....

I gave her the boot, and kept her as an occasional plate. She would tell me of x, or y guy that she was dating, but the first thing was: he does x, or he is a ceo of this startup, etc... never about the person himself, but what he did. She is still riding the carousel.

But for the first 6months of our relationship, she put up a good facade. Women that go into finance, tend to be cut-throat, and greedy, but smart. The women that chase finance guys, tend to be cut-throat, greedy, good looking, not that smart IQ wise, but street-smart.

So, use it to your advantage when you can, but if you got to hook up with a girl, and she already knew what you did, then you should assume she likes your for you money, and not yourself.

You want a woman to fuck you because she is physically attracted to you. Best strategy is to hide what you do as long as you can, and establish attraction first. Dress nice, but don't overdo with very expensive items (such as Rolex-es), as gold diggers are trained to spot clues of wealth.

You want to look good and very well put together (i.e. pass the schlub test), but not "rich".

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire22 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I think you're right on the money about women who chase men in finance. New York City is like one giant grave-yard for not quite hot enough women, who flock there hoping to bag a rich finance guy, but wind up cock carouseling, working long hours at the not quite Sex and the City job, and being ground down by the real estate and food rentiers. Los Angeles is a similar grave-yard.

I'm wondering what your take on where to find non-gold-diggers. What industry would they be in? It seems to me that to a certain extent, they all are. I mean, why would any rational woman want to date an unemployed, underemployed, or low-earning bum? Where's the security in that?

Paradoxically, while despising gold-diggers, I often find myself disgusted with hot women dating or even marrying poor schlubs, because I think, "God, she could have done so much better for herself." I also want my sisters and female cousins to marry high-earning men.

[–]apackofwankers2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

The chick in my story was in New York, LOL.

Where to find non-gold diggers?

Well, I am from Melbourne, Australia. This is the second city. The most ambitious people move to Sydney. The ones that remain are fairly content with their lives.

The first city in any country is full of wannabe people. The second city is full of people who just are.

Melbourne, Montreal, Saint Petersburg (russia) - these cities are full of lovely women who aren't dreaming of trading up so much - they seem like much more self-sufficient and complete human beings.

Im currently dating a chick in Montreal and one in Moscow. The Montreal chick just is, looks great n whatever she wears, and is pretty happy where she is. The Moscow chick is cursed with dreams of expensive cars and fashion brands and luxury apartments and travel destinations and so on, but really, deep down, just wants to be content. The Montreal chick doesnt care where I live, the Moscow chick is impressed by my address in Moscow. Moscow chick is an HB9/10, Montreal chick is fucking sexy, bold in the sack, and funny as all hell - reminds me on the chicks I used to date when I was still in Melbourne. I'm so fucking conflicted about leaving Montreal next week.

New York is a loveless place, except for the very young, who think they will live forever, and do not think about the future.

A friend of mine spoke once of post-materialistic women. Ive met a few such woman. They arent brand-aware, and they look good without makeup. They have their own lives. They arent aspirational. They usually come from modest but financially secure backgrounds - lower to middle class parents that dont struggle (an increasingly rare phenomenon).

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire20 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Ha. I'm SO glad I intuitively declined to take the New York City, as well as Los Angeles challenges. The cost of living seemed insane to me, and the quality of life looked like shit. I prefer green spaces, not smog-infested urban hellscapes. However, I do live near an urban area, and these tendencies still emerge, just not as insanely delusional as in New York City or L.A. Women are more "realistic" in their entitlement.

To counter-analyze my own arguments, post-materialistic women can be even more annoying than materialistic women because they're horrible with money and live like there is no tomorrow, not thinking that maybe they'll need money for a rainy day. Also, many of them are just straight up financially illiterate.

[–]apackofwankers0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Just be glad that places like New York exists, to lure away the awful women from wherever you decide to live.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire20 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Now there's a good way to look at it. It's like the gold-digger roach motel. Most that check in, never check out. Those that do survive, breed NYC resistant strains of gold-diggers though.

[–]newjacktown0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is a really interesting comment.

I like the point about what you would want for your sisters. I think it is especially illuminating.

I live in London, so mirrors this phenomena of women flocking for the finance guys.

My LTR is in medicine - and I think that is a solid profession for a partner especially if their area has some solid patient care and not too specialised/male dominated. (Women who work in male dominated, high powered environments, banks, law firms, surgeons, I find tend to have negative cut throat qualities mentioned in this thread.)

I think other professions, where the role involves thinking of others, teacher, author of some sort, researcher, etc all attract the better personalities.

But the harsh truth is, as a man, you just can not be "unemployed, underemployed, or a low-earning bum"

You don't have to be earn massive amounts - but this amount is relative and I think it does have a clear established threshold. You need to break that certain barrier to capture a good quality woman.

The key focus I think is the other side of a carreer/work life, away from nominal income amounts - it must feel you have a vision, a path, and passion. Be perusing some form of mastery.

I think that is key.

[–]scamper_221 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There's nothing wrong with it per se. All women are about status.

The issue with finance women is their status is among their finance circle and that comes with great cost. Finance guys probably suffer under a lot of this too.

They just get used to expensive meals, expensive shows, 'bad' activities like too much drinking, gambling...

I'm like you, an engineer and I look at this lifestyle, and I can play it for work, but I really want no part of it. I'll go out drinking with these guys maybe once a month or so.

Women are definitely more social than men. Always evaluate their social circle.

I really don't think there is anything wrong with a women finding me attractive because I have a good job. I poured decades of hard work into it, I hope they find it useful too. I can definitely provide a good life for my family. That's a good attractive trait.

But, that's where it ends as far as money goes. I want to be used for my money to be able to provide you with a good life. But I'm not here to play status games with highend people.

It's a fine line with a big difference in my head.

I guess the equivalent from a female perspective would be a girl who works hard to look really good. That is a great attractive trait. I will admit and I hope she takes it as a compliment that I like her a lot because of she looks good.

But if I mainly use her to just trot out to my social circle to look good, then she's probably not going to be too pleased.

Use your good job. It's a great accomplishment. Same as crafting a great body. Years of hard work and dedication go behind it. A lot of talent gets behind it.

But make sure the girl you are with is with you because of ability to provide a good family, and what it means for you to have built this (hardwork, dedication, talented, responsible...)

If all she wants is the surface level money... then she's not worth your time.

That's true for guys as well. Don't marry a girl just for her looks or that she smiles a lot. Marry her because of what it means (hardworking, cares what her husband thinks of her, dedicated, feminine, caring...)

[–]2CHAD_J_THUNDERCOCK0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Have you got any good/unusual tips on reaching 200k in tech?

Im a Data scientist in london, looking to move to SV.

[–]apackofwankers10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I found when I got a call about 10 days before I was supposed to fly to move to her city.

her: "how would you feel if i told you i was sleeping with someone else?"
me: %$#&@!
her: "think of it from my perspective, he's so much richer than you, he's going to buy me nice things"
me: %$#&@! whore
her: Hypergamy doesnt care

red flags? Umm, late 20s woman with dolls. Sometimes got tired of maintaining her facade, and a contemptuous personality would emerge. Worked in finance, hidden goal was to meet a high finance dude.

This was the event that eventually led me to the red pill.

Best way to flush out a gold digger is to tell them youve gone broke and see what happens.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire22 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"Sometimes got tired of maintaining her facade, and a contemptuous personality would emerge."

Now we're getting to the meat. What were some examples? Also, did you notice any pattern with regard to the time? Did the mask slip at regular intervals?

[–]apackofwankers3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Moments of emotional and physical exhaustion. It requires energy to be false.

[–]akolyteofthecentury0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

seamlessly presenting a facade of pure intentions.

When do women overtly communicate their intentions, ever? If they want you to fuck them senseless or "i'm just not sure whether you will leave me sometime yadda yadda" maybe. Other than that? Wish upon a star.

Imagine a first date: Beta "So, what are you looking for in a relationship?"

GD "Well, from you, since you're asking I'd like an accidental child, then a ring, then a super pompous wedding - which is going to be like, totally amazing - and a car. Then, after I get tired I'm going to divorce you and take everything. If not, half will do - there's still the child support and stuff and a prenup will absolutely not be set up.

... But if we're not talking about a relationship with you, well.. a six pack, a big dick, mmhmhm.. Oh yeah, money obviously .. Kinda like Christian Grey or something."

Beta "... but if I marry you, do I get sex?"

Those days will be magical - not gonna happen.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire20 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh, I didn't mean "overtly," as in "I'm only in it for the money!"

More like indirectly, where they say something innocuous that has a loaded meaning.

For example, I interpret, "So what do you do?" in the absence of an immediate demonstration of physical attraction. as "Well, you're not that ugly, if Chad Thundercock won't recognize that I'm unique amongst his harem of opportunistic slores, I suppose I could stomach sex with you a few nights a week . . . for the right price."

Usually girls that are into you are so caught up in their attraction that they forget about worldly concerns . . . unless they're the dreaded Gold-Digger 2.0 / GD 2000, where they know ahead of time what to simulate to get what they want.

[–]akolyteofthecentury0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"So, what do you do?" is just another test to categorize you into either AF or BB, in my books.

But hey, since i'm a trainee, i ain't dealing with GDs. Still, AWALT. I guess those who're on the hunt for cash have a plan, but most women lack insight and logical thinking (to a degree) so their planning is usually shit and it'll go flying out the window sooner or later.

[–]RosewoodPill7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Don't date gold diggers if you're not made of gold, buddy. This shouldn't affect you. A gold digger to a rich player is nothing more than a hooker who has thousands less on her notch count.

She used you because she pegged you as a BB who would do anything to fuck her. She probably was offering 5 star meals to chad thundercock just to get him out for a night of wild sex.

[–]apackofwankers2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh and her version of Chad, who I never met, was a fat balding unemployed orthodox jewish guy with a glowing resume and a wealthy family. He may have been very alpha, but you would never have guessed it from his photos.

No, it was all about the bucks, and his beta bucks were very well endowed.

[–]apackofwankers0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Oh yes, absolutely - she decided I was beta, and I was.

I have improved a lot since then.

[–]RosewoodPill1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

We all live and learn, and youre defo well on your way. Most guys dont realize this shit till they're 60.

[–]tedcase4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

AWALT. Just dont marry or seed 'em and you will be safe.

[–]684616748970514549804 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

AWALT

funny how people here forget this at times

[–]rpscrote0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

there's been a new wave of faggots spinning shit like "AWALT but not all the time." It's a fucking plague

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Someone gets it. You need only wave your money around a bit to get access to the goods. You don't actually need to spend any of it if you're smart.

[–]BoobToArmRatio6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

This x100. Flash the cash, then pump n dump. Every girl that comes back to my place is immediately curious what I do for a living. As long as you don't look or act beta you won't be a BB.

[–]garlicextract1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

how to 'flash cash' in a non-tryhard way while also not actually blowing a bunch of it down the drain?

No seriously, I'd appreciate some wisdom here.

[–]BoobToArmRatio1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Your strategy will depend on what you consider a "bunch of it"?

Personally I actually have a pretty standard process for the first "real" date (not counting casual coffee or drinks)

I take girls to this decent sushi place three blocks from my condo. I never talk about work on the date. The place looks kinda fancy but only runs about $100 for two so when the waitresses brings the check, I just hand her my card without looking at the bill. If you don't care, the girl won't either.

Then we walk three blocks back to my place, which is a 1br condo in a new high rise that costs the equivalent of a 4000 sq ft house in most parts of the country. I give them a brief tour, show them the view from my balcony, put some mood music on and mix a pair of drinks. Sometimes they'll ask me to perform for them on the piano or guitar.

Sure, there's a lot of LMR sometimes, but it's been about 8 months since I last failed at closing with this process. And yes I do it fairly often... everyone at the sushi place knows me haha

[–]TytalusWarden 38 points38 points38 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

| The women in your life are going to be extremely curious about your finances, to the point of hacking your computer. Not all of them, but many of them. Beef up your security.

Good luck with that. If a woman can gain access to my financial information then I'll marry her on the spot, and heck I'll even employ her full time.

Full disclosure: I write security software.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire218 points19 points20 points 11 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

Now now. Where is your brain? They wouldn't actually do it themselves. That's like, sooooooooooo boring and not cool. Much better to have some nerd orbiters do it for them.

In actuality, I had the EXACT same reaction you did in your comment. Then I took a step back, and thought, "Well, they don't have to be smart and hardworking enough to actually do it themselves; they could just get some putz do it for them!"

Probably not a likely scenario though.

[–]kranos336 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Hardware Keyloggers are not that hard to install. But most people (especially women) are not smart enough to get that done in a way you wont notice.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

a combination of password, fingerprint, and 256 character key on a usb will do it.

[–]forworkpurposes 4 points4 points4 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Absolutely. I never discussed figures with anyone, but I guess the car speaks for itself. I'm glad you mentioned cyber security because I know people who like to snoop through their SO's accounts whenever they can and it pisses me off.

[–]csehszlovakze2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

And that's why you separate your professional life and the other aspects into multiple accounts and zero connection between them. That way the firms won't find your online stuff, nor will any snooping people find your job-related stuff.

[–]chooseusername94 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

You're really only deluding yourself this way. It's a woman's job to find out these things because it's what turns her on.

What car do you drive? Where do you work? What's your position? Where do you live? Your woman will likely know the answer to all 4 of these, and with those she can predict to within 20% error what your income is based on this. Maybe not totally consciously but she already knows your general place and is partially judging your social status off of that.

Of course they want to see the bank account numbers but that's only to confirm what they're already guessing.

Unless you're a business owner you're not fooling anyone. But even then you can tell by how well the business is doing. It reflects in your language and actions.

[–]apackofwankers2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The women who ask these questions are gold diggers. Its important to never give them a straight answer. Dont name your job title, dont name the company you work for, dont even be specific about what job you have. Starve the hamster of information and it will start fantasising. That's a good place to be in.

The women who don't ask these questions - are much better for you.

Drive a modest car, stay in a modest apartment, and save your money.

Lift your game, not your lifestyle.

[–]kaiwanxiaode1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

So just out of curiosity. What is your strategy for avoiding such questions which basically everyone asks.

[–]apackofwankers2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I have prepared answers which are completely ridiculous.

What do you do? Professional fox hunter No, really, what do you do? Im an Australian porno star called Horse Dundee No, really, tell me? I'm an engineer What kind of engineer? That's all I'm allowed to say.

I had an old friend, male, press me on how I make money, and he just wouldn't let it go, I gave him one evasive answer after the next, and he kept pressing. Eventually, I flat out said - "Sorry, but I am not going to answer your question" and I followed up by saying "I understand you are curious, but I have nothing to gain by satisfying your curiosity" He was really put out. I should have said "sorry, but I am not discuss my finances with you"

[–]kaiwanxiaode2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Are you the same guy who suggest telling people you are an elephant sky diving instructor?

[–]apackofwankers2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No, but I think I am going to be.

Seriously - a vague and boring answer is best.

What do you do? I work for a bank.

[–]notmyusualreddit2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

While what you wrote is very true, I recently played an amazing gold digger farewell joke on my exgf. I got a large % bonus January 10th 2014 for all of 2013 that I didn't mention to her, but later left my February paystub out with a $42k YTD by mid February. She couldn't contain her excitement when she saw it. She used her cutest possible voice to say "wooooow, look at you.. you're doing so well! :)" By March I told her I couldn't handle all of our previous drama and that I just had to start fresh somewhere.

I've never seen a woman cry and grasp at every memory she could think of to save a dying relationship. I pity the poor betabux that has to compare to her thinking her ex made half a million a year (I dont). Shell never replace that because shes simply not a $500k a year kind of woman.

[–]garlicextract0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Not saying she wasn't a GD, but I'm pretty sure even a non-GD would be excited about that kind of thing. The girl who loves the guy who works at McDonalds but has sick game is a unicorn.

[–]notmyusualreddit1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Very true, I never considerer her one but I thought it was a funny goodbye setup because I knew it was 90% over. And considering AWALT, I knew it would get to her someday. It was just a bit of psychological warfare as payback for all the shit they do regularly.

[–]Philhelm-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But the girl who fucks the guy who works at McDonald's but has sick game is AWALT.

[–]rpscrote0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

dude that's fantastic, well played.

[–]TehFuggernaut3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

^ I can't back this up enough. And whatever you do, split your expenses.

Just broke up with a 2yr gf, and we had discussed finances plenty (mine - never hers). I own our house we're living in, and was paying most bills. She KNEW the financial situation, yet took every opportunity (in hindsight) to bleed me a little drier so she could stash away more money.

As soon as she gets a raise (how much? "a lot",) she asks me to go out and celebrate. Check comes - its mine to pay for an unplanned $150 dinner on a Tuesday.

Don't fucking ever get into a situation like this. It made me extremely bitter.

[–]SoldierGenerale8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, being rich is cool but don't use it as a crutch because you don't have game.

Game trumps everything

[–]_JRTB 2 points2 points2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Game = the sales pitch, SMV= the product.

[–]SoldierGenerale0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

When you have amazing game you don't need a product to sell.

Think of a broke drugged out 'musician' that gets laid like crazy solely because he's deluded and thinks his worth is higher than society actually perceives it to be.

Working on your SMV is great and definitely important in maintaining LTR's but for hook-ups and plates your game is the most important thing.

[–]_JRTB 2 points2 points2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Musician = High SMV , or at least perceived high SMV.

[–]SoldierGenerale1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Broke musician is just a douchebag with a guitar. Anyways you're missing the point.

[–]juanqunt5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A finance job is as much about prestige and status as it is about income. If you make the same amount of money, a hedge fund manager would be more respected than someone who's simply won the lottery.

You're right about never discussing details with women. But you can hint that you're high status. Show it off with your alpha attitude and the ideal lifestyle you've built for yourself with the money you have, but don't explicitly mention anything that has to do with money.

[–]mustang_mike0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

What about inadvertently displaying your income? I've thought about this a lot and came to the same conclusion you did, that raising SMV by showing income is a bad, bad idea. But if a girl comes over, she's going to see my car. She'll see my stuff, and while I don't have a lot of things, the shit I do buy is high quality (thus expensive).

Outside of not having women over, and driving my 20 year old truck instead of my brand new car out to dates, what if anything can you do to minimize the impact?

[–]chooseusername910 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

There was one post on here by a guy who would rummage through bank's garbage cans to find a bank receipt from someone whose loaded. He'd leave it in the car and go to gas the car. Curiosity would get the better of the girls and they'd see the receipt and think he was loaded. He said it got him plenty of pussy. He explained his shitty car by saying that he just invests that extra money in the stock market instead of a car.

It's a dubious strategy but... if it works it works.

[–]KeithStone30rack4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Tom Leykis mentions this all the time on his show haha. Another good one is to collect business cards from expensive restaurants and write your number on the back instead of putting your number in her phone.

[–]mustang_mike-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm asking about the OPPOSITE of that. How do you, as someone who has money, keep the gold diggers off ya? Girls see the nice car and good shit in your house and might just decide they're holding out for a ring instead of just a fling.

[–]chooseusername92 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sell your car and good house haha. you can never know. even the ones who aren't gold diggers are more attracted because you're wealthy.

[–]The_Man110 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Drive a Honda and live in a normal apartment. When they find out what you do and how much you have, the cognitive dissonance drives them nuts. They can't ask you outright because they look like a gold digger but they have no way of satisfying their curiosity.

You will also save a TON of money living like this.

[–]apackofwankers-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Spend your money on experiences, not things.

In the end, when you look back on your life, it will be the experiences you remember, not the things.

Don't let the money go to your head - live modestly and dress modestly, and buy only what you really need.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

junior year being a frat star I work in finance am had business cards hahaha

[–]garlicextract0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

how the fuck were you a 'frat star working in finance' when you can't even properly type a sentence

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

They're called internships, also we're whining about proper sentence structure on Reddit.

The fgt is strong with this one.

[–]garlicextract0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

shut the fuck up, "you am had business cards"

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

HAHA, just noticed that. Thought would be swipe to type on android.

[–]jimjackjoe 31 points31 points31 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

God this is brutal and depressing. Going through all this to get a job in a fake industry is utterly degrading. This post exemplifies pretty much all that I dislike about the corporate world. The corporate world always misses the point about what it means to be productive. Say you were a tech expert interviewing for a one-time contract job at a corporation. In the interview, you would come in and present your ideas on how to solve their problem and they'd hire whoever they felt had the best solution. If you asked them a question in the interview, you'd be asking for some technical clarifications you need to do the job. However, when you're applying for an actual job at the corporation--especially when you are applying for a fake job like a managerial position or pretty much any job in finance--you ask questions because you need to "show you've done your homework." It's all a show. You don't actually have a question you need to ask...you've just generated some questions before hand because it shows you're responsible and also understand the social nuances of the interaction. It's all cover letters, thank you notes, and networking. Knowing how to actually do something is totally secondary.

This is a soul-less post in which the first thing the OP does is use his bonus (likely around $20k on the high end, from my experience) to put a down payment on a nice car. There's no discussion of the actual knowledge about finance a person needs to get a finance job (partially because finance--the numbers/math part--is not a real thing, and therefore requires no actual skills to do). If tech consultant guy were giving you advice on breaking into his industry, he'd say "learn skill X because you need it to solve problem Y, and people who know how to solve that problem are in high demand." He would not say, "Make sure you send a thank you note--not via email, oh no no--but a hand written one!" Dear lord.

The fact is, though, that the OP's advice is indeed VERY GOOD if you are going for any sort of corporate job. It's just sad to me that it is very good advice.

[–]johnyann10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

This is why 90% of the finance industry will be automated within 10 years.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Pro tip: Every city bank is in my university looking for software and generic technology graduates.

[–]animalpoo2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You sound like someone who has worked in finance and therefore has impeccable knowledge surrounding the issue.

[–]forworkpurposes 6 points6 points6 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm upvoting this because you make an excellent point, about my post, that is very true. There is a lot of sacrifice in the finance world. The process is extremely fake and you have to really put on a facade to do well with interviews and the like. I also agree that a lot of finance isn't real. We make it all up, and people pay us to believe that we know better than they do.

[–]1oldredder2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup. It's been covered up and down on zerohedge since before reddit existed.

Economics, finance, knowing what's true and what isn't, how it chain-reacts into everything including gender relations in culture & law, is the core of the red pill.

As long as they're throwing money at you to say what you both know are lies, it would be like turning down pristine pussy just because the mouth attached to it is full of lies.

We both know we'd do that, right?

[–]animalpoo-3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok you haven't started your job yet so I'll let you off the hook for agreeing.

http://wallstreetplayboys.com/why-the-ninety-nine-percent-is-wrong-about-wall-street/

[–]UlyssesElias1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Very good points. I thought that after the whole story of the Lehmann Bros and The Smartest Guys in the Room nobody could think and behave like this any more.

What the hell, I'm very naive

[–]collidoscope1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. Would be interested to see how the OP feels about his car/job/life in 5...10.. etc years.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

OP sounds like every single person I went to Business school with that was an elitist in Finance. I did a marketing degree and a post-grad in Advertising Copywriting. They shat on me for my whole degree for going that route but now I have a fulfilling job as a creative and quite frankly I don't keep up with them.

One time I drunkenly got it out of them that they were pursuing their degree for women. Seriously. They thought Finance was going to land them bitches rather than self-improvement or simply putting themselves out there.

[–]I_have_secrets0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you. It is such a breath of fresh air reading this and now knowing I am not the only one that feels this way. MGTOW should be be as much about the corporate world as anything else.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

partially because finance--the numbers/math part--is not a real thing, and therefore requires no actual skills to do

What are you talking about?

fake industry

What is a "real" industry?

If tech consultant guy were giving you advice on breaking into his industry, he'd say "learn skill X because you need it to solve problem Y, and people who know how to solve that problem are in high demand."

I agree with you here. Not OP, but I work in finance. The real advice I would give is: you better learn and know at least 2/3 of the following (in addition to finance knowledge): calculus, statistics, and computer programming if you want to work in finance. Physics majors are also in high demand for similar reasons.

What line of work are you in that allows you to call the financial sector a fake industry?

[–]2alisonstone2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

It sounds like he is an investment banker. It is "fake" in that it is mostly a "legal butt covering exercise" for all parties involved. It's not about brains, but about dotting the i's and crossing the t's. If a company wants to do an IPO or do some M&A, they need a 3rd party to come up with valuations, do due diligence, and stuff like that. Otherwise, they'll get shareholder lawsuits saying that they intentionally overpaid for an acquisition to enrich the CEO's wife's distant 3rd cousin or whatever.

It's cheaper to pay Goldman Sachs to advise on a transaction than it is to fight those legal battles. I'm sure a 20 year railroad executive would know more about railroad companies than a 2nd year banking analyst right out of college (that's the guy who actually does all the actual work, the higher level bankers just do the actual client meetings and stuff). But companies will pay a "small fee" for the Goldman Sachs stamp of approval. Since investment banking teams are pretty small, that "small fee" (ex. might be a few million out of a billion dollar deal) translates to large bonuses for the bankers involved.

Basically, the large investment banks have a monopoly on this legal butt-covering stamp of approval. You are not going to hire small no-name investment bank on a billion dollar deal or people will accuse you are intentionally covering something up (and ambulance chasing lawsuits will emerge) by hiring "incompetent" bankers rather than the top ones. You'll hire Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, etc and give them a tiny percentage of the deal's value (accounting and consulting is somewhat similar too, there are a few mega firms that pretty much just run on reputation, a large company is not going to step out of the Big 4 accounting firms). They divvy that among a handful of bankers, which is a large amount of money to each banker.

A lot of people in banking believe that bankers work hard just for the sake of working hard. You can't say that you only spent 3 hours of time doing due diligence. You have to be able to claim that you had a team of top notch Harvard graduates working 16 hours a day, studying the deal nonstop. If the banks become more efficient and the bankers work 40 hour weeks, they lose that prestige and they would actually lose money for being more productive. It's kind of like how something is more valuable if it is hand crafted by some master artisan who has had 30 years of experience instead of being mass produced by machines. The item made by the machine is probably better built! It's not an easy job, you have to work your ass off if you are a banker. But the work itself is smoke and mirrors.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You have displayed little about what an investment bank/banker does. Then, based on that, you call the industry finance "fake". Which is funny because I get paid real money working in portfolio management. I get paid well because I am good at my job. I am good at my job because I am intelligent, well trained, and work hard.

[–]1AFCdood8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You should write a follow up in a few months. I'd be curious to see if some time in reality (ie not college) changes your perspective.

[–]felipebarroz17 points18 points19 points 11 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

I'm happy about your outcome, but unfortunately I can't agree that a fulfilling life and finance can work together.

I currently work at a highly prestigious strategy consulting firm, and I'm going to quit it next month. Finance and consulting does pay wonders, that's for sure, but the amount of hours that you need to work... It's not healthy. You can just work and (barely) sleep, nothing else. Then you spend your money on expensive parties on the weekend...

It is a fun life: you will have money, expensive cars, lots of sluts to have sex with you. But, in my opinion, it is not a fulfilling life: you won't be able to develop a hobby, have a healthy relationship, to read a book, to get another degree...

I'm free to answer any questions about working on this area, if anyone is interested.

[–]Fishy19 5 points5 points5 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So what are the jobs in finance that pay relatively well, but still allow you to the job with your personal life?

[–]situ1399 points10 points11 points 11 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

Stratton Oakmont

[–]684616748970514549801 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

a lot of jobs.

this 'oh god its so unhealthy the hours you work' shit is loser mentality, either coming from people who have no idea or those who are so inefficient they have to spend 20 hours a day doing 6 hours of work. there are some jobs that do take more hours + travel, but they are well paid.

my friend works for citadel, makes 600k+ a year and works regular business hours with all vacation days.

a person i mentored just finished their 2nd year doing a higher level of the job op said he just got and is done at 5pm.

most of what you read online is from bitter poor people with no idea, kids just out of college thinking they'll be billionaires by 30 and/or low-level finance idiots trying to sound cool after seeing wolf of wall street

get another degree

who the fuck does this normally? the post above is full of shit, you just have to separate the shit from the actual info online. good luck

[–]forworkpurposes 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What's shit about it? Just curious.

[–]684616748970514549800 points1 point2 points 11 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

it wasn't that bad, just from skimming over it, it seemed like the interview process was exaggerated a bit

the people i've mentored all got their positions at the big 5 without much fuss due to the proper internships and schoolwork, and while youre right about preparing fully for then interview process i dont agree that its as dramatic as that (if the guy had a bad lunch you wont get the job, etc)

[–]metalhead46 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I feel like this is an American problem. I'm Canadian I grew up blue collar and work a blue collar job that pays me enough to get by. My parents aren't university educated and no one in my family is "rich" as in, we drive Fords, Chevys and Hondas and not BMWs, Porsches and Mercedes. I feel everyone who is so focused on material gains is just a waste of my time. I don't give a fuck about you taking pictures of every part of your BMW and posting it on facebook, it makes you look like a pretentious douchebag. I like that everyone I know likes me and my character and probably doesn't say shit behind my back, if they do, fuck em.

[–]newls1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Probably a western problem IMO. Here in the UK most people don't really have an overriding passion or life mission, they just have petty material goals. More pay at work, bigger house, bigger garden, dearer furniture, bigger telly, new bathroom, and on and on ad nauseam.

I'm generalising to make a point of course. But I think most of here would agree that 95% of people in the west lack any kind of ambition or motivation. We're the 5% of people who pursue our goals with fire, passion, and rage.

If you're good at school people expect you to go from school to uni to a stable and 'sensible' job. Like a good little boy. I woke up a few years ago and thought fuck sensible, I want to do what I want to do. I want to reach age 60 and know that I've lived my life for me and not for other people.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

I have been working in finance for the last 6 years after I got my MS. The picture you're painting of fast cars easy sluts is not really accurate in my experience. I have hobbies and lead a fulfilling life. Just cause it wasn't for you doesn't mean it isn't possible.

Edit: you're 20 years old. I don't believe that you are working in any kind of important role in finance. Quit your bullshit.

[–]felipebarroz0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm a consultant at one MBB firm. Here in Brazil it's way more common to hire people from the graduation, while in the US and Europe they normally hire people with a MBA...

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't have an MBA. Nobody that I work with has an MBA.

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points3 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This post sounds like a parody all the condescending Finance majors in their senior year of business school watching Wolf of Wall Street.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What the fuck does "we are finance" mean.

[–]felipebarroz3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Entrepreunership is the only situation where I find reasonable and healthy to work 14-16 hours per day, as we do in Finance or Strategy Consulting. You will be building your OWN things, not helping others build theirs.

[–]milkyboon0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I like you man, entrepreneurship is really the only way out. Anyway, I prefer putting my time in my own business rather than in someone else's.

[–]forworkpurposes 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm upvoting you because you have a good point, and I may feel the same way in a few months.

[–]felipebarroz1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

I really hope that you don't: I prefer a TRP guy like you up there than half of my office: guys who works 14-16 hours per day and earn a lot of money and spend half of it on ex-wives and 'princess' at home...

[–]foldpak111-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The money is worth it to me. I'd do a full 10 years, but I'm a high school drop out. Is it possible that I can network in the Marines after Engineering school? I hear finance looks highly upon military service and engineers. I don't think i'll be able to get into Harvard business or anything.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Go to college join a social frat.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Depends what you mean by military. Enlisted high school dropout you're gonna have a hard time. Graduate from West Point or the naval academy? That is looked favorably upon.

[–]felipebarroz-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not from the US, unfortunately, so I can't say about Military service: here in my country, the military is a really old and discredited institution.

[–]berenSTEIN_bears18 points19 points20 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

you already acquired debt via car shortly after being hired?

[–]dickinlipss8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

I missed the undergrad boat for getting good grades. I was the typical dumbass who felt smarter than everyone for getting B's and some A's in an engineering major without trying so eliminated myself from the pool of bankers. It deeply saddens me that I did that. What is my best bet to getting into the industry. I want what you're feeling. I have squandered a lot of my potential. I took a shitty engineering job because of my inability to network, which persists. I try to network and people give me dead face. As if they're thinking, "Why is this guy talking to me. I'm way better than this guy." The thing is I'm a first generation ivy league grad who got in because High School was too dumb and uncompetitive to ever challenge me to study and work hard. My bare minimum was better than most putting me in the top 5 ranked students in High School.

College ruined that for me because in an ivy league everyone is trying. Also everyone has parents and siblings telling them to network and write thank you emails and go to conventions. That is common sense right? No it fucking isn't. Fuck you. Had I known I'd put some effort into my freshman year and get into the shoe-in diversity jobs at top banks straight away but I had no idea what I was doing.

So what the fuck am I doing now? I have interviews and am constantly applying to name-brand engineering jobs. I am seriously considering grad school to try to get poached from a phd program by a bank because they tend to do that. I am trying my hardest to fix that fucking dead fish face that people give me that makes me want to literally strangle them.

Advice?

[–]forworkpurposes 6 points6 points6 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

My advice is keep interviewing. I went through a TON of interviews before finding a job I'm actually excited for. As you get practice, you'll get better at networking. If someone gives you that face, don't let it affect you. If you ask them questions about what they do, they'll automatically light up because people love talking about themselves. Ask for their card, shake their hand, thank them for their time, follow up, and interview. Good luck man you'll be fine.

[–]dickinlipss0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

For finance specifically, is it possible within reason to get there with a bad GPA and a few years out of college?

[–]PookIsLovePookIsLife5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you're getting brand name engineering company interviews and not get hired, you just need to study more. Cracking the coding interview, programming interviews exposed, algorithms textbook, whiteboard practicing, etc.

People prep for months before interviewing at top companies. That's your competition.

[–]snapback1113 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

im giving you that stare right now

[–]dickinlipss0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't worry, I've killed the pity party in real interactions.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You're missing the most important pieces to the puzzle. You don't believe in yourself and your attitude is negative. No one gives a fuck that you caught a raw deal in the parent lottery (which is a hard sell coming from an ivy), no one gives a fuck that you had so much potential, no one gives a fuck about your inability to network. You place so much weight on these variables that you've written yourself off. Advice? Reach down your pants, grab your balls, and remind yourself that as a man only YOU control your destiny. When you start to believe it those around you will as well.

[–]dickinlipss0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This was more of a lapse in RP thinking in the form of a rant. I always focus on my success and accomplishments when interacting with people. I didn't learn that too long ago but it is definitely helping.

[–]SocialJusticeWhiner1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Why not look into a financial engineering program? Everyone wants those guys (HF, bankers, HFT) and you start at over 70k. There are both undergrad and masters programs out there.

[–]dickinlipss0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm making that now. I'm reaching for the stars.

[–]SpicyBeanz1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm starting my undergrad at an Ivy League this fall. Do you have any advice not to fall into the same boat that you did?

I find myself able to relate to you quite well. I more or less coasted through high school, but I'm still ranked second in a class of more than 500 students. (I'm good at regurgitating information.) My parents went to a state university, and I have an older brother who is currently on probation at a state college for failing too many classes. I don't really have any role models and have been learning more by watching others fail rather than modeling myself after others' successes.

I am planning on joining ROTC in college to provide some structure in my life (plus physical fitness, leadership, and scholarships). What else should I be doing at an Ivy League to maximize my time there?

[–]dickinlipss1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

I can't comment on ROTC except through ignorance, but it is an incredibly heavy burden, from what I've seen from some friends that did it, and seems redundant to do once in an Ivy league since you're set for life if you do it right. Take that with a grain of salt. Rich people love the military for whatever reason. If you can make that work, all the better. If it's a matter of money scholarship ignore this.

I advise that you work HARD. 80% of my work during the year was during finals and it actually felt good, but every single time I had to force myself to study through a survival instinct that built up as I started realizing the possibility of failing. Beast mode was on, and I would end up doing very well. It's the rest of the year that I had trouble with. If I could channel that the whole year I'd have a 3.8 at least graduating because I'd frequently go from knowing no material to catching up to the higher end of average in class.

Since you have coasted through high school like I have, you absolutely need to learn to study. I have never done this myself but there are some good books out there that teach you just that, and you should read them. College is a time management game in the eyes of top financial firms who hire whoever has a high GPA because the GPA is the sign of someone who has their shit together. Someone with a 4.0 makes their professors happy, which are the hardest people to please. Consulting firms and bankers see this as proof of your potential for pleasing people and being competent enough to learn the material and do the work, which is probably true. If you spend time studying you'll do well judging from your HS history. Also if you're doing STEM, in required bs fluff classes take the feminist/sjw angle in papers always. Cater to whatever it takes to get an A. I didn't do this. It was fun, but bad idea. Optionally black knight by taking a militant feminist/SJW that wants to go beyond what's currently acceptable.

I decided to add this. If you want to go into finance do an easy major like IEOR and get a high GPA and get into a firm. Do an internship every summer, starting in sophmore summer at the latest if you cant get one the first summer. Ask around. There is an easy major that inflates your gpa for the purpose of getting into the finance/consulting industry.

Additionally I regret not doing greek life. Find out what firms hire most at your school, and which frats are best associated with those firms. Instant foot in the door given a good GPA. The additional support with life and academic advice along with a dozen years of tests and problem sets are an invaluable resource. The highest GPA frat is a good starting point.

And the pussy. Go to the early frat events and you can see which frat houses have lines of girls from the local girls' college coming out the door. I was buddies with a couple of frat dudes and the fun can not be compared outside of that group.

Network. Figure it out. If you don't know what that comprises ask financial engineering/IEOR majors. Ask what they're doing. There are guys who have been spoon-fed the banking path. Learn from them. I thought it was a silly word that made students feel important. But it's important to do it. If there are any on-campus events for recruiting, it's basically a foot in the door for preferential treatment during the hiring process. You will skip thousands of applicants by saying "Hi", giving them your card, sending them an email with their resume. Even if they forward it to the hiring manager without a title or text it skips the line.

Socially, make friends with everyone. Make them uncomfortable but keep talking to everyone because you want to. All of a sudden you have friends and are well liked. I'm naturally socially awkward but this worked for me. Be in shape and lift. I ran an hour a day, most days and was in the best physical shape of my life. Even with my awkwardness I could wall-flower at a party until I was confident/drunk enough to go to the dance floor and the hottest girl would leave the poor guy and start grinding and making out with me. All the girls would stare. Good luck.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Mate, that's solid gold. I wish I had read this three years ago. Now I'm in my final year at uni (a top one in the UK) and I barely got a slightly above average tech job, while I've been pushing for IB and consulting spring weeks/internships since my first year. All I got was a Risk Management assessment centre at a shit bank and I didn't even bother to go to it (would've been good practice I know, but I didn't want to bother going to London).

[–]dickinlipss0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's complacency. I'm willing to do whatever to reach my goals at this point. It is a privilege to not be tied down to any particular place. Don't take that for granted. Also the bigger the city, the more money there is to give around. Studies show that living in a richer area will make you richer. I cannot comment on whether working at a shit bank is worth it.

[–]redbluepilling0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Start searching for a career right now, and see what's actually required. Practical, employable skills to have under your belt are often underemphasized in college. Realize that these are University professors that are generally not in touch with the 'real world' and the bullshit you have to go through. Be wary of paths that seem to lead directly to a career. Fields are getting narrower, requiring more specific experience and time spent learning one thing. Nothing is guaranteed--including you actually liking a specific career and you getting a position. Internships are incredibly important. They do not expect too much of you compared to what will be required after graduation. This is essentially the only time you can get away with that, so do it. You can't get internships after graduating. Finally, "do not rest on your laurels", the degree and where it came from. Graduation is just the beginning and you shouldn't place undue faith in it. You aren't your degree. You aren't your University.

[–]2alisonstone-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, the thing about Ivy League schools is that there are a lot of things that everybody knows already. 90% of the people there come from high income families, so their parents are engineers, bankers, lawyers, doctors, etc. They already went through the "real world" and obviously they did it right because they ended up having money to put their kids into a good school district or private school (all the kids' peers have similar elite parents). The parents pass all this knowledge to their kids.

If you come from a poor background and you have above average intelligence and happened to ace all the standardized exams, you may be one of the 10% of poor kids that go to the elite universities. You are probably from a blue collar family and your peers in high school were probably all from blue collar families so they have no clue how the top half of the "real world" works. A lot of the poor kids believe that the job comes after college, whereas some of the kids are getting internships at elite companies or banks after their freshman or sophomore year. Many of them pretty much have a job secured before their junior year (i.e. they did great as an intern and the company basically decided that they want him, if they want the job they just have to show up for summer internships and they'll get the job offer in their senior year).

[–]watersign0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

engineering?? do quant finance-- know math and how to code. get paid as much as an I-banker if not more if you're good.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

It's shoo-in, not shoe-in. Courtesy of you're not as smart as you think you are--the game is rigged and has nothing to do with credentials--think outside the box.

[–]dickinlipss-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Think inside the white. Words, grammar on internet, who gives a shit

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Most of the time, nobody. If your entire post is bragging about how ridiculously smart you really are despite your underperformance, then you probably should.

And now, in the future you won't make a fool of yourself by writing 'shoe-in'. You're welcome.

[–]Tenneen2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

great post, i really learned a lot...

but i was wondering, what can be added if a) your grades are below average, b) you are in the tech industry?

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Tech is largely meritocratic, especially if you can certify your knowledge. If you're aiming for programming, have a portfolio built with your best work. For Networking and Applications, get some professional certifications. They matter a lot more than grades. Neither matters as much as experience.

If you can get any experience, even low-paying (or no-paying) experience, you'll be off to a great start. There's a lot of room to climb.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Tech is meritocratic? What, you mean programmers are paid according to how much they're worth to the company?

[–]2alisonstone1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Tech is really only meritocratic in terms of getting hired and in terms of the downside. If you can't do the work, it will be very obvious and you will probably be gone pretty quickly. But if you can do the work, you'll be "promoted" into doing 2x more work for 5% more pay.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, you get it. I'm really quite surprised none of the other guys do. I probably shouldn't be surprised, considering that almost nobody gets it in real life, either...but I am. Nobody seems to notice the degree to which tech companies underpay and overwork their software guys, especially the software guys themselves. And it astounds me every single time.

[–]antidoxdevice0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thats most jobs. At least in software its easy to move.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's meritocratic in that the programmers making the big dollars are nearly always more talented than those who make less. Your delivered product matters so much more than anything else, companies fight tooth and nail to keep their best talent.

Further, it's a field you can step into without a college degree, if you can prove your competence.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

On the off-chance that you're mocking me, I'll take this opportunity to point out that the maximum salary you can reasonably expect to earn as a 90th percentile programmer is barely higher than the median. Excellent performance isn't rewarded excellently. In other words, it's not meritocratic, even between programmers. Never mind that in tech, programmers produce all of the value, but are at the bottom of the metaphorical totem pole.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Instead of programmers consider software engineers. A fresh graduate on the west coast (not necessarily Cali) or in NY can achieve salaries > 100k just starting. But the total compensation is closer to 140k when considering RSU and bonuses. This only increases and by 30's you could be pulling 200k in total compensation.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I respect the immense amount of skill it takes to be a top-notch software guy, but I just don't respect the degree to which they're exploited by the companies they work for. 140k at 22 to 200k ten years later is an abysmal increase. And that doesn't take into account that after a decade (or two or three) you're still exchanging the better portion of your waking hours for your income.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oops. I was comparing total compensation for SE 2 and salary of staff engineer (or acceptable top out at most companies, usually 8-10 years to get to this level). The actual compensation is closer to 350k. I'm certain one could raise their salary more quickly if they kept themselves on the job market and changed positions every couple years to further raise their compensation.

Also as it was mentioned earlier, tech companies operate largely on meritocracy. So its possible to get there in 4-6 years and its possible to never get there.

[–]mustang_mike0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, if by "bottom of the totem pole" you mean "making 6 figures sitting in my underwear at home and drinking beer at noon". It's the worst! /s

All non-junior programmers know that you won't make amazing money by working for other people. Some start their own businesses, and learn real quick that there's more to good software than just banging on a keyboard for 14 hours a day. Others don't care, and pull in good money for a cushy gig by any other standard.

Have numbers to back up that 90th percentile claim by the way? Honestly wondering, I haven't seen industry salary numbers compared in ages.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

90th percentile seems to be 120k-ish, enough for a comfortable working middle-class existence in a non-absurd cost of living area of the country. Of course, most of the >100k jobs are probably located in the absurd cost of living areas of the country, unless you manage to snag a remote gig.

As for "bottom of the totem pole", I suppose my standards may be skewed.

[–]mustang_mike-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, west coast you can live in a decently big city (not Seattle or SF, but not BFE) and make 100k and actually have money left to spend. I did the whole 100k in SF thing not too long ago, and it sucks...

Remote is the way to go, second only to self employment.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I haven't done it, but I've heard the horror stories. SF rent control presents a real problem, too. I'm looking at my options, presently. If I do the physical presence thing, I might try a city like Houston. If I go remote, I probably won't even stay in-country.

How long have you been remote?

[–]dickinlipss2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Networking can overcome a lot but it will be extremely difficult. I haven't figured it out yet. Your best bet is going to grad school. They love poaching smart, top people from their programs. Just like in relationships.

[–]Transmigratory1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Depending on the grad school, you'll still need to do something amazing with your resume. Top grad schools are still quite tough to get into.

[–]forworkpurposes 2 points2 points2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Tech and finance are very similar in a lot of ways. The interview process will be more or less the same, but you'll often times be asked to code something and explain your logic. They don't really care if you're wrong (unless you have no idea what you're doing) as long as you can explain your thought process since programming is very much problem-solving. I did some of those interviews too. :)

If grades are low, focus on the networking aspect. It works wonders.

[–]Tenneen1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

thanks man...networking it is :D

[–]mustang_mike1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

If your grades are below average, don't mention them. 95% of people won't ask, and the 5% that do aren't worth your time (tech employers that care about grades have their priorities mixed up).

Network with everyone, develop social skills so you're not a typical awkward nerd, and work hard.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I just did 2 background checks for potential new jobs recently and they both checked attendance dates and GPA.

[–]mustang_mike-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Only time I've been asked for GPA was when I was at a college job fair, and come to find out the company that was doing the asking was a notorious shithole. They told me straight up "Have a 3.6 or we won't consider you", and in retrospect I should have just lied and said I had a 3.7 or something. Worst case they check, and you don't get a job you weren't getting anyway. Best case they don't check, and you get a job (fake it till you make it in action).

For most employers, the important part was the degree, and even then tech as an industry is a LOT more concerned about what you can do and not which piece of paper you have. YMMV though. If you're working for the government or another big bureaucracy, they're more likely to care about that nonsense.

[–]_JRTB 3 points3 points3 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Are you front office ? Going to a top 5 UK university to study economics and looking to work in Sales & Trading upon graduation.

[–]Transmigratory2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Whereabouts in finance did you get a job, investment banking division?

[–][deleted]2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Great post here, OP. This is a great read for anyone just about to enter/leave college.

Two things I have learned from my education and interview phase, one which you touched on and one which you didnt:

1) "It never hurts to have good grades". OP is spot on here. I will give you a real world example. I have a First Class Honours(Highest grade in Irish system) in Computer Science and Math. I got an interview with a well respected analytics company in Sydney. i got to the final interview with the CEO himself, a very hands on guy. I liked him immediately, an intelligent and clued-in individual who obviously loved what he did. He told me outright that the only reason I got an interview wasn't because of Computer Science or Math, but the fact that I got a First Class Honours. This proved to him that I am willing and capable to roll up my sleeves and do some hard work. Not everyone can. Remember this.

2) Have questions to ask your prospective employer. In almost every interview I have ever done, at the end the panel will ask you, "Do you have any questions you would like to ask us?". Now this obviously does not mean ask something stupid like "How much will I get paid?". That should never be a topic for discussion unless they bring it up with you. This should be seen as your chance to interview them. You have to remember, that an interview is somewhat a two-way street. You want to see whether this company will fit in with your future plans or climbing the corporate ladder. You are not going to join a company that is going nowhere. Make sure you have intelligent and relevant questions to ask. Perhaps about something which caused the companies name to be in the media, or what their plan for progression is(in particular to your role). I like to add a question about the work environment and/or team dynamic. I think this shows you to be a team player, eager to mingle and that you get along well with others. But this should be pretty evident from your interview anyway.

Hope this helps someone!

[–]1oldredder2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Contrary to what most people think most finance jobs are sales or covering up accounting fraud. Some got in without that intent but your tune will change when you see who goes up and who goes down.

[–]juanqunt4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Pretty standard advice, but great overview write up. Saving this for the future to use as a checklist.

[–]forworkpurposes 2 points2 points2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Thank you. Yeah it wasn't meant to be groundbreaking, because there really isn't anything extremely magical about the process. Glad you liked it.

[–]ulyssesss4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Do me a favor and reread this post in 10 years to see how much of a tool you sound like. I know you can't see it now but just trust me.

[–]EvanDeadlySins1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I've read somewhere, don't recall where, that there are two types of people who "succeed" in finance, or at least in IB. It may apply to the other subfields.

1) The ultra-smart uber-workaholic who isn't social but never makes a mistake.

2) The smart and gregarious type who rarely makes mistakes but when he does it's let off more easily because he has good relationships with people.

What is your evaluation of this?

[–]forworkpurposes 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Haha based on the people I know, that's pretty spot-on. I know a few of the first type; they're no fun. Most (and I mean the overwhelming majority) are the second type. Think sociable, smart, frat boy types.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

As a freshman majoring in finance, I was interested in what kind of finance job/hours you got. I personally have been looking into consulting and equity research but the hours 60+ on both, would cut into my free time and lifting schedule. Then again anything under 60 hours, you're probably not earning much and are sacrificing the fast progression of consulting/i-banking.

[–]PookIsLovePookIsLife1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Approximately what is your salary?

I know people who have gone into the finance sector, and it's not as if they are making 200k straight out of school. Often they're making around 70-100k in high cost of living areas. Bonuses usually are around 5-20k.

[–]lonewarr1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is accurate. And in NYC/SF that doesn't get you very far. What entices most of us is the far greater compensation that comes with experience in the industry.

[–]AnonymousBallsack 2 points2 points2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Banking "salaries" are made up of two parts - the actual salary, and the bonus. for a first year analyst in investment banking, a salary AND bonus of 50-70k is accurate. so somewhere between 100-140k, depending on the firm as well as how well the firm does in that specific timeframe.

[–]fake72720 points1 point2 points 11 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

that's how it works at Amex as well. higher up managers make about 150k a year but 90-120k in bonuses.

[–]halfnerf1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This will work in any profession. Congrats, and keep at it.

[–]EmbeddedAssets1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Did you ever become discouraged by how competitive the entire process is? I feel like a beggar in a sea of beggars with only one supplier of food waiting at position #9001 in line. I'm a computer engineering major at a top university, but I'm trying to get into high frequency trading and I've just been discouraged since finding out there's only a 0.5% acceptance rate for these quant hedge funds. That's 10x less than getting into Harvard.

If you understand where I am, how did you overcome this discouragement? I'm pressing on as usual but extremely worried and unhappy that I won't extract value from this university and be doomed to a 70k per year job. I worked far too hard just to deserve this. But it's always been this way for Asian males. We get the lowest reward/effort ratio. Please let me know how you overcame this stress in your university years. Thanks very much for reading and go make some rain.

[–]forworkpurposes 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes, very discouraged. But you've got to just keep pushing. Emails, meetings, coffee dates, whatever you can get. Luckily, I interviewed well and got a good job. Not everyone is as lucky. Yes, a LOT of it was luck for me.

[–]EmbeddedAssets1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

Welp I believe people make their own luck to some degree, so congratulations on your part. Now I have to keep my war machine going...

[–]PookIsLovePookIsLife0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You're not going to get stuck with a 70k job, man. Starting salaries are higher than that for new grad software engineers in major tech hubs. I know guys making the hourly equivalent of more than that as interns.

[–]EmbeddedAssets0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"In major tech hubs", as in you probably mean San Francisco, where all your wages are eaten up by daddy government and high cost of living leaving you to save very little. Other tech hubs I've seen like Texas involve lower wages sitting at around 70k.

Now Seattle seems to be an exception with Microsoft and Amazon but again, those companies have similarly low acceptance rates.

[–]PookIsLovePookIsLife0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Same deal with finance jobs in NY.

[–]1oldredder0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

All the money in HFT is made by quote-spoofing in a manner that's deniable to regulators as intentional and which is for the big firms - the tiny ones will get nailed to "make a point" even though the big names are the most guilty.

Show them an algorithm that tricks the other algorithms into quote-spoofing the wrong-way and handing you shares at low prices and bang - they'll hire you.

[–]2alisonstone-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

The easy money in high frequency trading has been made already. As an analogy, they used to nickel and dime everybody when they first appeared. Now they are fighting over pennies and fractions of pennies. It used to be a lot easier to get into HFT, because any smart guy could figure out ways to make money for the firm when given a supercomputer. Hiring a smart guy was an obvious net gain. Right now, if you simply hire a smart guy, it's not obvious that it will be a net profit for the firm (it'll just slice the compensation pool up further and everybody else gets less money). All the easy ideas have been exhausted and the easy money have been made. Also, it's not like the current employees are that old, they are all still pretty young because HFT hasn't been around for that long. It's not a growth business any more.

It's actually far easier to get into the sell-side because of the natural turnover they have there. Every year, a lot of bankers don't make the cut to get promoted and they are effectively fired. A lot of bankers leave on their own because they don't like the lifestyle. So there are always openings every year (except the financial crisis). The buy-side is more tough and is probably far more cyclical (fund flows often dictate whether a firm will hire junior analysts).

[–]EmbeddedAssets0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

So you're pretty much suggesting that I should apply to classic finance jobs upon graduation as well as Google, Microsoft, etc. even with a computer engineering degree (Which I hope recruiters are smart enough to realize my non 4.0 GPA should be treated closely as such since I'm an engineering major at a tough university). Fair enough, except I know my parents are not going to support that I switch careers from a "building" career (Not that you build much in high frequency trading anyways) to a "swindling" career.

Maybe I should get into data analysis and machine learning for lower frequency quant analysis, but that's quite far from what I study in my major (Which is lower level C/Assembly, not C#, R, or whatever). Then I guess I'll just have to cope with being stuck with a CoL-adjusted salary of 70k per year. My life just keeps looking more and more like my dad's footsteps... At least he lived in Korea when he was young and met my loyal mom. I don't even get that.

[–]2alisonstone1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You shouldn't abandon looking at HFT if that is what you want to do. Just know that odds of getting in are pretty low. Firms like Google or Microsoft will always hire talent. They'll make room if there is enough smart people looking for jobs. The reason why they can do that is because those companies make a lot of money. You might have better luck looking for jobs at other quant funds (the non-HFT ones that make longer term bets, not microsecond ones).

The reason why high finance jobs pay a lot is not because they make a lot of money (certainly not as much as Google or Microsoft), but because their employee count is very low so the money is divvied up among very few people. A $1 billion fund that generates 2% management fees will have $20M for maybe 10 employees. They don't want to increase the employee count. If you can get in, it is great. But there are not many slots available. Depending on the business cycle, sometimes you graduate in the wrong year and you can't get in.

If you are going for a more classic finance job like investment banking, make sure you have the right personality to succeed in it. Most programmers and tech people don't have the banker personality. You don't want to wash out after 2 years before the pay really starts to ramp up.

At the end of the day, don't think about "building" vs "swindling". Because under that logic, if you don't end up as something like a doctor, you are an asshole. It's not like those guys at Facebook are "improving" the world, they have accumulated a lot of the world's best minds and are using them to figure out ways to get people to click advertisements, just like how finance is taking some of the worlds best minds and making them do a lot of nonsense. Objectively, you'll help the world more by making a ton of money and donating it to someone who is better at helping people than you are. You'll probably be happiest finding a job that has a high pay per unit of effort. Half of the tech employees go in for the money and then backward rationalize that they are advancing the world and doing this great service for society (when they are really just figuring out ways to get people to click ads).

[–]EmbeddedAssets0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Good post about the morality, I never really cared for it but it does come for great rationalization to keep good relations with my parents. With that said, I'm not sure what you mean by the "banking personality", as that could mean becoming like Dan Bilzerian outside the office while being extremely politically savvy inside the office. Knowing how to smooth talk and distort your contribution to the firm when bonuses roll around.

What exactly does it mean, and what does it take, to become a good banker vs just a good developer?

[–]2alisonstone0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In some ways, banking is a glorified sales job. For the most part, the math in traditional finance (the non-quant or HFT) is a joke compared to your engineering courses. You are not going to be better than everybody else because you are more technically sound. You need people skills. If you make it up the chain in investment banking, you will be meeting CEOs and you will have to convince them to do acquisitions and stuff like that to generate fees. Instead of selling a product or a house, you are selling a billion dollar business.

Even within the buy-side (the stock pickers at mutual funds or hedge funds), a large part of it is being marketable, because if clients don't like you they are going to give you any money. One of the sad realities is that there is more money to be made convincing people to put money into your fund than there is generating good returns because fees are based on your assets under management. Many funds are extremely profitable despite under-performing market averages because they are able to retain clients with their marketing.

[–]1oldredder0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

NANEX is doing everything possible to prove criminal intent & market manipulation by all HFT firms so the reason not to get into it is because it's a financial racket full of fraud that could very well become a bunch of jailbirds with the CEOs getting golden parachutes.

[–]Fishy19 2 points2 points2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm currently studying economics (so not finance, but related). What did you specialise in? How important are the knowledge of maths, statistics, econometrics etc?

Good luck on your job and don't forget to post a follow-up in a few months!

[–]forworkpurposes 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I did economics and finance both. Depending on the role, you'll need more or less of a background in math (i.e. to be a quant, they'll want to see a degree in math or physics mostly).

[–]Fishy19 2 points2 points2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That's what I thought, lots of competition for people who studied maths (and not finance/economics).

A job as a macro-economist will probably suit me better. Do you have any idea how much these guys earn?

[–]forworkpurposes 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Not sure. Glassdoor.com has salaries.

[–]Transmigratory0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago [recovered] [recovered] [recovered] [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

By any chance, did you land a role in the investment banking division of your bank?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hey, thanks for the write up. Great advice about networking. I'm more curious about hedge funds. From what I understand they are basically exclusive uber rich frat clubs. How should an undergrad work towards that field?

[–]scamper_221 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Oddly, I think finance has been good for me as well. I'm a software engineer and had previously mainly worked for tech companies. My friend recruited me to the bank.

My first 'revelation 'was just dealing with contractors. Oddly in finance being a contractor is a better deal. In tech, its the opposite. They don't do any work without it being of benefit to them. Sounds shocking I know, but that's not the tech industry.

The next one was just seeing people move. I went out to a corporate bank night. Starting talking to random people. Next thing you know, a VP is telling me he wants to move me up and what my next career moves are.

It's just a shocker how much people do for themselves. Shocking I know, but that's not how the tech world operates.

Not to mention dressing better, dealing with assholes. In tech, I was largely shielded from power games. A good manager does that for you. Here, it's right in your face.

It's not the nicest environment, but it's a great learning experience for how the world works.

[–]2CHAD_J_THUNDERCOCK0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What is your type of role in the bank?

Do they treat you poorly as you are not 'front-office'?

[–]2alisonstone0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In finance, everybody expects everybody else to have some basic understanding of finance and business, so they tend to be far more straightforward about career and financial matters. They won't take offense to you leaving for a better job, and they are more likely to give you fair compensation because it is normal for employees to abruptly leave when they get a better offer. Basically, you're more likely to get fair pay even if you suck at negotiation because your peers are so good at negotiating. Management just assumes you are great at negotiating and networking too, so they don't want to risk stiffing you because you'll probably quit the next morning.

In many tech companies, management assumes you are socially retarded like many other tech employees and they'll try to stiff you all the time. It can be exhausting to keep fighting it, but if you don't then you get screwed. And sometimes fighting it is hopeless because some other dude will volunteer to do 2x the work for 5% more pay, and then you are out of the job. People in finance won't do something retarded like that, they expect to be paid for their work.

[–]CuriousFloyd 2 points2 points2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Excellent write up. Clear and concise. Came at a convienent time as I have an interview tomorrow.

Cheers!

[–]um_ognob 2 points2 points2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

This reads like a finance/recruiting circle jerk guide. Your attitude makes it seem like you're going to burn out in a few months.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

To me it sounds like hiring common sense with an elitism that they have now seen the world and come back to share their elite exclusive experiences on the other side.

[–]DaThrowaway8081 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Is it common to have to show off your wealth in the finance sector or is this more of a personal decision?

[–]foldpak1111 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

My big problem is that I want to get into investment banking/finance, but I'm only 5'5". It seems like those fields would require someone of a larger stature. Oh well I'll just keep persisting.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Those fields are full of asians, so you're wrong.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

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[–]1oldredder1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe it's just because I pay attention to all the other comments from foldpak111 as they come through but I distinctly feel you've missed the sarcasm.

Maybe he's trying to get his picture / name inside the wikipedia page for Poe's Law.

[–]RosewoodPill0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You actually don't even need to go to school to get a six figure finance job. You need to be smart as fuck though. They will train the right people.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You need to go to school to get an interview. I can learn anything I'm trained to do fast as shit. Nobody is going to give my ass an interview at a firm because I have historically not succeeded in classroom settings and thus don't hold paper beyond a GED.

[–]foldpak1110 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You could become an air traffic controller or start at the bottom on an oil rig, but I agree with your post. You'd need to get at least a BA to even be considered in finance. We all aren't Chris Gardner.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm going emergency medical. I need something dynamic that keeps me moving. Classrooms and offices are a no-go. The training is 20% lecture, 40% reading, 40% hands-on.

[–]PlebDestroyer0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Congrats. I too want to work in high finance.

I must disagree though in that I believe acing an interview has significantly more to do with you and your behavior than the interviewer's.

[–]Kose2kose0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

I feel like you're not telling us everything. This is great advice if you have a visceral passion for finance and investment. You said you were in the "investment club" at your school. That means you already knew a lot about finance before you even searched for jobs. I have an international business bachelors degree with a 3.5 GPA from an accredited college in NY. But I'd be terrified to interview at an investment firm because I only took like 2-3 classes on finance. You say half the people that get hired didn't even major in finance. Then how the fuck do they have the knowledge or confidence to interview in such a fiercely competitive and dog-eat-dog field like finance? A field where you have to know your stuff and display a certain level of quick-thinking wit and charm.

It would be my dream to land a job you did. I feel like there's way more background info that you're not telling us. You're makin it sound like "if you believe in yourself, you can land an amazing finance job making shitloads of money while only being in your early 20s!"

You have a better grasp on finance than most people. Thats how you were able to do this. You're not just some red pill dude who worked out and worked on his frame lol.

Edit: yes I'm super jealous lmao. I wish I could get an opportunity like this. Regardless, I'm happy for you man. Congrats. Much luck for the future

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

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[–]Kose2kose0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

So how did those philosophy majors get these sweet positions without the finance internships and background that you had?

[–]1jimjackjoe1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

because you don't need "finance" skills to work in finance. ultimately, all you need to know is how to schmooze rich people.

[–]Kose2kose0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Of course. But there's a lot of ppl who can schmooze really well and don't get amazing dream jobs.

You can't just be some smooth talker with a college degree and a good GPA. These ppl who get into finance are made for it. It's one of those things you either got it or you don't. Like being a salesman. That's usually a personality that people either have or don't.

[–]1jimjackjoe1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

going to an elite college helps a lot, since a good portion of the alumni work in the industry. coming from a rich family also helps because that's another way to know rich people. is that what you mean by "made for it?"

[–]Kose2kose0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

you may be right. but i've heard of a lot of self made dudes that started from nothing and made it there

[–]forworkpurposes 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Would have to ask them, but I imagine they interviewed well and demonstrated they could learn the skills if given the proper training.

[–]Kose2kose1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

So if ur just a cool guy that has charm you can land a sick finance job? Ehhh again I think there's a lot more background info we're not getting. Everyone who has a degree with a good GPA would do this if it were that easy

[–]forworkpurposes 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Right, there's more to it. I'm just telling my story since a few people asked about the process and I wanted to give back to the TRP community because I think confidence (as cliche as it sounds, whatever) was the biggest factor in getting the job after I got my foot in the door with my resume or whatever.

[–]Kose2kose1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

Fair enough. I got a lot from your post regardless. I definitely learned some valuable tips. Thanks for this. And good luck on your bright future. Just don't get wrapped up in the drug culture that often permeates finance circles lol

[–]2alisonstone0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It sounds like OP is on the sell-side. They look for smart, hard working people. Probably more important to be hard working than smart. And you have to be marketable because it is a sell-side job, so you need to know how to talk and how to deal with people.

If you are looking for a job at a quantitative hedge fund, that is a completely different story. You better bring your elite math skills, they don't care if you are awkward.

[–]yummyluckycharms0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Ah....working for an American company in America - I miss those days. You can spot this right away by the fact that the OP didnt mentioned applicant screening software, that the employers were willing to train, and the lack of emphasis on the level of degree. For the padawans north of the border, take his story with a grain of salt. For external applicants, grades are paramount, MBAs compete with BA for limited spots, and bonuses arent as lucrative

Also, I see some people saying that chastizing the OP for working long hours. Here's the thing - hes not doing it for the money but he's doing it for the enjoyment of the job. When you factor in the long hours (including the required face time), he's making minimum wage. Ultimately, it does start to wear thin, which is why most people in IB go for exit opportunities.

Secondly, the only jobs in Finance that dont have long hours are probably private equity and hedge fund management. These are tough to nab though, just like how many consultants try to angle for internal corporate strategy positions but are often frustrated. When I look at the paths that most of my friends took, most chose exit opportunities that werent pure finance - such as joining a private company as a finance manager (sometimes called directors)

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

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[–]yummyluckycharms0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

hah - I wish it was a joke but my friends keep making that statement a reality. Lazy bums are always out of the office by 4:30 or are kicking it back lazily drinking in some bar.

[–]bobbybouchier0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I have a question for you. I am about to graduate from a large university with a respected business school with a B.S. in Economics (which has a reputation of being difficult at my school). However, my GPA is only between a 3.3-3.4. That being said, I worked two jobs simultaneously throughout college because I did not have financial support from my family. Do you think that my GPA is too low to be competitive?

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[–]Rice_Fields 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Glad you decided to write about it. I'm a college student, and this is very interesting to read

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

I also work in finance. What kind of car did you buy?

[–]forworkpurposes 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

BMW convertible with some bells & whistles :)

[–]Riddick_1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

You got a BMW 4 Series didn't you ;]

[–]lonewarr0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (16 children) | Copy Link

I'm calling bull on the sports car. I know this industry inside and out and I can tell you that all of the big banks which he could potentially be working at do not give out signing bonuses any greater than $10,000 for college seniors. 40% of this is taxed upon receipt.

[–]snapback1110 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

this board funny. Nobody at an expensive private school cares about a bmw, let alone asking for a ride to snap chat. Rich kids get bmws in hs in america and its not really an event since they all around town in that case.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

It really puts it into perspective when a guy brags about how people want to ride in his new BMW.

[–]forworkpurposes 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I didn't mention the brand until someone asked. And didn't mention the model until I was asked again. Not intentionally bragging here.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh, I know, but it reflects on the people who want to "be seen in" your ride, people who I assume you socialize with. In any case, I'm sure you bought it because you like BMW engineering.

[–]forworkpurposes -1 points-1 points-1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Haha do you want to see my registration? Or I can do what some guys do on r/cars and hold a piece of paper with their username on it inside the car next to the logo? Which do you prefer?

EDIT: http://i.imgur.com/DXg3mFr.jpg

[–]lonewarr0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

If your claim of working at a big bank that makes the front of the WSJ often is true, then the car you bought cannot have been more than $6000. For firms of that caliber that is the maximum after-tax signing bonus. The firms which give out the really big signing bonuses aren't the big banks.

As another user posted pointed out, it could be used and 15 years old.

[–]forworkpurposes 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Put a down payment down, didn't pay for the car in its entirety. Posted verification as a reply to another commenter. I don't know why everyone is hopping on me for getting a BMW. It's not a Ferrari.

[–]lonewarr2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Congrats then. I was skeptical because it seems odd that an incoming analyst would buy an expensive car. Not only do you have to take out a mortgage for it, but also in the big finance cities cars are a liability. If you're in a relatively low-cost city like Houston or Charlotte I suppose it makes sense.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Read this guys posting behaviour. He's posting like he's seen the light and this entire thread is coming off as a humblebrag. Totally the type of dude that would put a down payment on a car out of his pay range.

[–]2alisonstone-2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

OP should be careful if he wants to stay anonymous. Most bankers in NYC won't own a car because having a car in NYC is a huge hassle. It's not like he has much opportunity to drive it anyways given the hours he will have to work. However, there are certain big name banks with headquarters in Charlotte...

[–]snapback1110 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

M cars have a blue stripe on keys from what I remember, reds the sport package.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Good for you. What model? I'm not much of a car guy but lots of coworkers are.

[–]_eskimo_brothers_4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think he was purposely generic with his response. As someone who is an enthusiast of the things that go vroom, especially BMWs, it could be anything.

I mean it could be a $5k 15 year old Z3, or a brand new 2015 BMW M4 drop top (don't think I've seen the convertible M4's on the road yet) with MSRP around $70k.

You know what's funny? Most girls won't really know the difference if the Z3 was clean and in excellent condition. I mean you can snag Z4's for not much more than a Z3, and they really make the Z3 look dated. But what I'm getting at is most girls are simply brand whores, if you say you have a BMW, or they see the BMW badge, they'll think you're rich, even if it's 10 years old. Trust me, I would know.

[–]watersign-2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So ..how Anglo or Jewish are you?

[–]MrMontage-3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Getting into investment banking seems a lot easier than wanting to stay in it from what I've observed from all the (former) bankers I know. Anyway, good luck excel monkey!

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