Woman calls 911 because man she met on app blindfolded, kidnapped and forcibly raped her. Turns out she was just mad that he wouldn't give her a ride home .

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but remember, it's her fault, not yours.

Until she post a #MeToo, makes him fired from his job and arrested by the police.

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[+]dx871 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

I think he's implying that even if OP is legally 100% innocent, people can still go on twitter and start a lynch mob against you that finds you "guilty in the court of public opinion", then you lose your job because the company doesn't feel like having its public image ruined by the lynch mob.

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[–]michaelscottspenis 83 points84 points85 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I went on a date with a girl I had known since high school about 7 years ago. We went to a bar, had some drinks, then she suggested we go back to her place. So we did and we started making out, pretty harmless. Then she suggested we have sex. Now we had had the same amount of drinks and it really didn’t amount to much. Like 3 drinks really. Yes, she was drunker than I, but she wasn’t wasted either. Anyhow, I suggested that we not do the deed because I liked her and knew better. If we had sex on a first date it would be all the relationship would ever amount to. Well then she started undressing me and I gave in. The next 3 weeks she ignored me. Then she invited me out to lunch to talk about it and told me how violated she felt and I was like what the fuck. I suggested we take it slow, then you undressed me and started blowing me. The police never got involved, but I got into a discussion about consent with some girls in college and of course I got called a rapist.

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[–]watermelonicecream 34 points35 points36 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Same shit happened to me when I was 21 working as a server. I went to Atlantic City to party my friends and made plans to meet up with two girls from work and their friends. We’ll call her Lexi.

I was retarded drunk and ended up making out with Lexi at the club. At 4 am we’re getting food talking to other girls and my phone won’t stop vibrating. It’s Lexi texting to tell me to come to her room and fuck her.

I ignore it, get to my own room and go pass out. Next shift at work I show up and everyone is being really distant. The manager (who is female) then calls me out asking me what I did to poor Lexi. How she told everyone that I was way too aggressive and took advantage of her.

So I whip out my phone and show everyone the handful of explicit texts she sent me at 4 am that I never responded to.

Guess who got written up.

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I'd be willing to bet this happens more often when the girl has a boyfriend. I was 17 and my girlfriend was 16. One night she went to a party with some friends, and calls me the next day to tell me she was drugged and raped by a 19 year old we both knew. When I was young my friends and I had the reputation of being the "rough crowd", and blinded by rage, I was legit ready to kill this mother fucker, and my friends offered me nothing but encouragement. I called him over and over trying to get him to meet up, and I wasn't showing up without the crew and a bat. We had no intention of a fair fight. I showed up at his house with 3 friends, yelling for him to come out, smashed the mailbox and busted a few windows with rocks. We left when his dad came out with a shotgun saying the cops were on their way. That night her parents found out and they were ready to go to law enforcement to press charges the next morning. The next day I get a call from two of her friends. Word had gotten out, and they were concerned my friends and I might actually kill this dude, and they come clean. They tell me my gf took a few xanax, got really drunk, blew a completely different guy in front of everyone in the living room, and everyone saw her making out with and trying to get the pants off the guy she claimed raped her. They gave me names of other people from the party that witnessed everything and could corroborate their story. I called the other people and they said the same. I called the "rapist" and finally had a civil discussion with the guy and he was broken. He was sobbing about how he never knew we were together and he would never rape someone, and even if we didn't kill him, there was no way he would be able to keep his scholarships if he caught charges. He was convinced his life was over. I confronted her with what I discovered, and after a few minutes of denial, she finally told me she did it because she wanted to be with me for the rest of her life and was scared I would break up with her if I heard the truth. I ended up apologizing to the 19 year old and explained to my girlfriend's parents why we were breaking up, and there was no need to press charges. They kicked around the idea of statutory charges, but they were "cool parents" and were under no impression their little girl was an angel. To this day, I don't know if her friends would have come clean about the incident if they weren't worried about us hurting the guy. They didn't seem concerned about the charges at all, they were worried about me and my friends catching up with him. That's when I realized some girls would rather ruin someone life than jeopardize their own relationship. Her actions were too public and she knew word would get back to me. So instead of facing the music, she got out in front of the situation as the victim so my rage would be directed elsewhere, and almost ruined another guy's life in the process. This happened in 2003 and to this day, anytime I hear about a girl who's been raped that has a boyfriend, I'm automatically skeptical. I feel like there should be a registry for people who falsely accuse someone of rape.

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[+]tinderoglu1 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (55 children) | Copy Link

You’re either a troll or mentally retarded. Two adults decided to get drunk and fuck each other yet one has regrets and feels ashamed and therefore blames the other for “taking advantage”.

Running people over with cars while drunk is the worst analogy I’ve ever heard applied to drunken sex 😂

[+]mwobuddy -293 points-292 points-291 points 8 years ago (54 children) | Copy Link

[+]tinderoglu1 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (45 children) | Copy Link

It’s already worked out. If two drunk people consent to have sex and one regrets it the next day and feels like a slut it isn’t rape.

Now stop wasting my time please I’m about to wash my sweaty balls in icy cold water, drink a beer and watch some Netflix.

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[+]tinderoglu1 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (29 children) | Copy Link

So in your whack ass world every drunk hookup in the history of human beings has been rape because apparently someone who’s had a few drinks “cannot consent”?

Gtfo 😂

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victim initiating sexual contact, it's not rape.

No, the victim cannot initiate sexual contact in a consenting manner. And they're not the initiator anyway if there's a victim. Consent isn't mutual, its an escalation. One person reaches for the other, or asks for a fondle, the other complies. One person pulls off the clothing, the other complies. Escalation is driven by the person who wants it more, and who is initiating. The person who is drunk and is complying is not capable of consenting to any of that, so their 'apparent' consent by compliance is not true consent.

Anyway, it isn't mental gymnastics to prove that a person who can't consent to sex can still be a rapist. That was the point of the concept of a 15 year old using a weapon to demand sex from an adult. You're trying to strawman.

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What a lame ass bullshit attempt at a comparison. A more adequate comparison is this: if two drivers, who are BOTH drunk, crash into each other (emphasis on BOTH) - who's fucking fault is? Both are at fault because both are drunk.

Okay, I can see where you're having a stumbling block. You're imagining they're both equally crashing into each other equally, rathre than on drunk driver crashing into the other drunk driver. In the latter case we could definitely find one person to be at fault. In the former case, we have to live in a world of delusion because real life doesn't work on absolute parity.

Someone is convincing the other someone to have sex, that's why there's such a thing as consent.

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/victims-victimes/def.html

Section 273.1 provides a definition of consent for the purposes of the sexual assault offences and for greater certainty, sets out specific situations that do not constitute consent at law.

Subsection 273.1(1) defines consent as the voluntary agreement of the complainant to engage in the sexual activity in question. Conduct short of a voluntary agreement to engage in sexual activity does not constitute consent as a matter of law.

For greater certainty, subsection 273.1(2) sets out specific situations where there is no consent in law; no consent is obtained:

where the agreement is expressed by the words or conduct of a person other than the complainant where the complainant is incapable of consenting to the activity where the accused induces the complainant to engage in the activity by abusing a position of trust, power or authority where the complainant expresses, by words or conduct, a lack of agreement to engage in the activity, or where the complainant, having consented to engage in sexual activity, expresses, by words or conduct, a lack of agreement to continue to engage in the activity.

To consent, a person has to be PROPOSITIONED for an act, and THEN they have to agree to it. As a person cannot consent while drunk, anyone who propositions them is already guilty of attempting to complete sexual assault/rape as any 'consent' gained from the inebriated party is not valid by law.

[–]puLsOr 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Someone is convincing the other someone to have sex, that's why there's such a thing as consent.

To quote you, "okay, I can see where you're having a stumbling block"

How many sexual encounters have you had? Usually, sex doesn't happen after asking something like "Yo, come have sex with me". Usually, you don't go around "convincing" people to have sex with you - "pleaaaaase have sex with me, come on...".

That's where your thinking is flawed. Sex happens mutually (excluding actual rape, not what you or OP are talking about). Sex usually goes through escalation, two people start talking, they show interest in eachother, they start touching (non sexually) to build rapport, they start kissing (eachother), they start getting handsy (both), they move to a more private area of the party, eventualy they end up somewhere private, clothes come off, sex happens.

If at ANY point in that story the girl (or guy) stops the others actions, we can discuss about rape. But at NONE of the above points, in the real fucking world, not SJW imagined ones, there is no "ASKING" or "CONVINCING" for fucks sake. At no point when they are talking, the guy or girl ask "Can I touch your shoulder now?". At no point, during dancing or whatever, someone asks "Can I kiss you now?". At no point, during kissing and dancing, someone asks "can I touch your ass now?". At no point, while going somewhere private, someone asks "can I remove your shirt now?". At no point, while both being naked in bed, the question "can I penetrate you now" happens. In what fucking world are you living? Do you fucking fuck while using a questionnaire? Checklists? Are you fucking job interviewing or what?

Yes, I repeat. If at ANY point there is reffusal or rejection, escalating would mean sexual assault. But in no fucking real world you go around asking people "can I have sex with you?" like you're implying. Noone asks the other party to fuck them.

Go outside more bro.

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[+]Nevets1351 points 8 years ago [recovered] (14 children) | Copy Link

Bill Cosby drugged women. Two adults both having drinks is not the same. Also if being drunk is no excuse for your actions and a girl says yes while she is drunk how come it's now rape?

[+]mwobuddy -8 points-7 points-6 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]ShoehornJackson 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

The problem here is that a drunk man didnt who gets “consent” from a drunk woman isnt really “raping” her in the traditional sense. Hes not beating or threatening it forcing her to do anything. Perhaps its not aligned with what she would do if she were sober, but SHE DID DO IT.

To put it in terms you yourself used... is a drunk person responsible for a car accident? Yes, of course. Sure they didnt have good judgement when they decided to get behind the wheel when everything they are told by society their entire lives tells them otherwise. Does the fact that their drunkenness was likely the cause of their bad judgement absolve them from punishment? Obviously not. If you arent able to trust yourself or arent wise enough to get someone who can make sure you dont do anything dumb, then you honestly shouldnt be drinking at all.

Where you are failing to make an accurate comparison is in that you are “correctly” claiming a need for responsibility for the man in this situation, you are completely failing to apply any of that same accountability to the woman.

Does the mans drunkenness absolve him from the consequences of having sex with a woman? No. However what are the consequences for having sex with a woman? The continuation of the human race??? Men having sex with women is generally considered socially acceptable as far as I know. He didnt force her or trick her into having sex with him, she wasnt “out cold” and thus not participating or aware. He doesnt even know that shes unwilling.

Compare that to the woman in the situation. Does her drunkenness absolve her from the consequences of having sex with a man she normally wouldnt? If you answered yes here, you are a complete hypocrite all the way through the foundation of youre argument and you can shove a drunk drivers automobile straight up your asshole.

The fact that you believe that a drunk man is “at fault” for having sex with a drunk woman leads to the logical derivation that “a judgement impaired man is responsible for respecting and adhering to a judgement impaired womans best interests”. Again, the hypocrisy here is that this simultaneously implies by placing this burden on the man that a judgement impaired woman is thus not responsible to look after her own best interests. “Oh i decided to get drunk and then i had sex with someone and I regretted it? Its not MY fault, he took advantage of my drunken state!”

Guess where your argument falls apart buddy? Its the fact that the entire concept of “taking advantage” of someones drunkenness is predicated on the premise that a drunken person isnt responsible for their actions while drunk. How can you preach that drunken person #1 must be held responsible his actions in relation to drunken person #2s actions, which they themselves cant reasonably be expected to be held responsible for because theyre drunk?

Honestly? The problem here is alcohol. If you want to ensure that your own personal best interests are upheld, why dont YOU uphold them? Yes, we live in a society, one which we would like to imagine all people will always help each other and respect each other etc... but if men can be held responsible for their actions they take when not in their usual frame of mind, if THEY can be expected to look out for their best interests when drunk (i.e. not having sex with a ready and willing woman when they want to have sex because the woman might be intoxicated and thus maybe wouldnt be as “ready and willing” if she were sober) and suffer the consequences, why is it that women arent expected to be responsible for their best interests and that men and society should be for them?

In conclusion, to answer your questions from the most logical and objectively fair vantage point I can possibly answer from...

“When is it rape for a sober person to have sex with a drunk person?” - when the sober person drugged the person unknowingly or forcibly. If a person decides to willingly get drunk, they should be prepared to accept the consequences of what happens from that just like a man would; Whether that means assaulting someone, getting in a car accident, or “accidentally” willingly participating in sex.

‘When is is "taking advantage of their drunk state"?’ - possibly always, and they shouldnt be faulted for that. Anyone who engages in drunk sex, whether the person theyre having sex with is drunk or otherwise, is responsible for their drunken state and thus should be responsible for the consequences. Is there something possibly unsavory about a stone cold sober person picking up a drunk person at a bar for sex? Perhaps, but regardless that person should be the one responsible for not getting themselves so drunk in the first place. If someone goes around the beach in the dead of summer selling ice cold water bottles for $15 a piece, it can undoubtedly be said that hes “taking advantage” of the beach goers. While again potentially predatory, it shouldn’t necessarily be illegal and anyone who falls prey to his business model likely does so because they failed to have to foresight to bring a cooler with their own cold water. Similarly, people who get in drunk car accidents lack the foresight to not grt behind the wheel drunk and people who “give it out for free” so to speak lack the foresight to not put themselves in situations where theyre prone to get shitfaced hammered and start giving it out.

The only situation that I REALLY take issue with is in the context of “taking advantage” of someone in that they were actually unconscious or secretly drugged or something against their knowledge or will. While it is “fair” to hold someone accountable for their actions (in this case, willingly getting drunk), they can hardly be held accountable for things outside their control when they take all the proper precautions.

[+]mwobuddy -6 points-5 points-4 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

The problem here is that a drunk man didnt who gets “consent” from a drunk woman isnt really “raping” her in the traditional sense. Hes not beating or threatening it forcing her to do anything. Perhaps its not aligned with what she would do if she were sober, but SHE DID DO IT.

Uh, you realize that for the last 100 years we've been pushing to recognize rape when it occurs not because of violence or threats but because of a person taking advantage of a person's compromised state of ability to make decisions?

The fact that you believe that a drunk man is “at fault” for having sex with a drunk woman leads to the logical derivation that “a judgement impaired man is responsible for respecting and adhering to a judgement impaired womans best interests”.

An impaired man is at fault when they harm another individual, yes. As she cannot consent, if he initiates sexual contact, any consent she might give to that contact is invalid, and he's thus harming her.

[–]ShoehornJackson 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

What people who dont have their head up their ass just heard:

“Uh, you realize that for the last 100 years we've been pushing to recognize rape when it occurs not because of violence or threats but because of a person taking advantage of a person's self- compromised state of ability to make decisions and therefore cannot be held responsible for their actions?”

“An impaired man is to be held responsible when they harm another individual, yes. As she cannot be held responsible for her actions due to her self induced state, if he initiates sexual contact, any consent she might give to that contact she cannot be held responsible for, and he's thus responsible for his actions in HIS self induced state. “

It really sounds like you think people should be held responsible for their actions even if theyre drunk(?)🤔🤔🤔

[–]mwobuddy -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]red-line1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

You've never drank before, have you?

[–]mwobuddy -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]LeSpeedBump 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If they are BOTH drunk and they BOTH agreed

Because you don't understand consent law.

The reason age of consent is 'valid' in legal terms, is because consenting is the act of AGREEING to a proposition.

A person must receive a proposition in order to consent. A person must proposition for the recipient to consent to it.

That is why age of consent works: Because it is assumed the adult propositions the 15 year old and the 15 year old might consent, but their consent isn't legal because they are judged incapable of consenting, and therefore the adult is a rapist despite the 15 year old saying yes.

SImilarly, a sober person is raping a drunk person because the drunk person is consenting, but is not legally capable of doing so.

For some dumbass reason, people here seem to think "because they're both drunk there's no longer a Primary Aggressor (The person initiating the sexual activity), because both are 'equals'".

I get their 'reasoning', if you can call it that. But that reasoning is SJW reasoning. You can't punch up, you can't be racist towards oppressors, and if two people are 'poewr equals', there can't be abuse or exploitation of the other individual.

On the other hand, any poewr differential is absolutely seen as not only the potential for abuse or exploitation but its mere existence is DE FACTO abuse.

That's why people in this thread say "sober vs drunk is exploiting, but drunk vs drunk is not". They're still drinking the SJW kool-aid in spite of all their MRA-Go-home-feminism talk.

Consider the following: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/having-sex-wanting-intimacy/201310/surprising-level-sexual-coercion-teen-peers

Supposedly they're 'equals', therefore sex isn't abusive. But lo and behold, there IS abuse going on, there is coerciveness, DESPITE them being EQUALS in terms of "BRAIN CAPABILITY".

This is another thorny area of logic for Consent law as it pertains to sexuality, because its not about the act itself so much as it is about HOW PEOPLE FEEL AFTERWARD.

This woman felt taken advantage of, ergo she was taken advantage of. Its the same argument for what makes teen on teen sex 'coercive', if they felt taken advantage of because of being vulnerable.

[–]chobbo 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

I don't know the specifics on the Cosby case, but I'm fairly sure the difference between that case and TroubleTheMerlin is that Cosby was drugging the woman without her knowledge/consent, whereas Merlin and the woman were both willingly engaging in alcohol consumption, and both agreed to shag as a result of alcohol consumption.

It wasn't like she passed out and he took advantage of her being unable to say no. From the information provided, it appears that, while both he and she were under the effects of alcohol it was still mutually agreed and consented to. Once again she may have regretted it once she sobered up but that doesn't mean she was raped.

lol @ me carrying some "SJW infection", pretty sure that's you implying "any consumption of alcohol renders the woman unable to control herself and therefore removes her ability to consent".

There's a big difference between fighting and fucking, therefore your example of attacking someone while drunk is rendered moot.

Fucking requires consent on both parties, she is equally responsible for obtaining his consent as he is hers. If she didn't consent I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have proceeded. Both parties are responsible.

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[–]nforne 20 points21 points22 points 8 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

women are damaged by one night stands

WTF? If ever there was one sentence that could piss off both MRAs and feminists at the same time, this is it. I know plenty of women who go out with the intention of getting drunk and having sex with a stranger. And unless you're some kind of super-stud, I'm willing to bet that the average woman has way more sexual partners than you have. Plenty of guys go out to get drunk and have sex too, they're just less successful.

There are some unwritten rules to this game. The girl should not be more drunk than the guy, and this is easy to avoid falling foul of because drunks are remarkable good at spotting if someone is more drunk than them. A girl who is drunk to the point where she loses control is absolutely off limits. Luckily, most people can tell the difference and will look out for one another.

If you stick within the rules, it should be fine to have sex with another drunk, consenting adult. Alcohol is a disinhibitor, and that's exactly why most people drink. Being disinhibited is not the same as not having control of a situation.

[–]Rolten 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]nforne 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

How exactly does this work? Does the average woman somehow have much more sexual partners than the average man?

Not in every case, of course, but yes. I don't buy into red pill ideology, and it doesn't bother me that women have easier access to sex than men, which is one of the incel complaints. But there is an underlying truth: women who enjoy sex can find a guy to supply it relatively easily. They can pick and choose, so the higher status guys get more. Then when she wants to settle down, she will often look for "marriage material", a different kind of guy.

An average guy, unless he's a skilled PUA, isn't going to find too many one night stands and is more likely to find sex within a LTR. He'll have fewer partners than an average woman.

If you're sober and going after a drunk girl then it can seem kind of sleazy, though still not rape.

It depends how drunk she is.

[–]Rolten 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Not in every case, of course, but yes. I don't buy into red pill ideology, and it doesn't bother me that women have easier access to sex than men, which is one of the incel complaints. But there is an underlying truth: women who enjoy sex can find a guy to supply it relatively easily. They can pick and choose, so the higher status guys get more. Then when she wants to settle down, she will often look for "marriage material", a different kind of guy.

Looked it up. For the Netherlands: https://wibnet.nl/mens/seks/vrouwen-hebben-weinig-sekspartners

Half of all men slept with six partners or less. Half of all women four or less. (I added the or less part, I think that's what they're implying).

One in three men has had more than ten partners. One in five women has had more than ten partners.

Average for men: 14. Average for women: 7.

God knows how exactly that works. Some really loose women?

They do comment that younger women seem to be having more partners nowadays.

If you're sober and going after a drunk girl then it can seem kind of sleazy, though still not rape.

It depends how drunk she is.

Yeah of course. Drunk as in you can still talk to her and have a conversation and she can walk and stuff. Just casual drunk.

[–]nforne 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]mwobuddy -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago* (12 children) | Copy Link

That women are damaged is self-evident, with slut shaming and possible STDs and pregnancy, as well as the lost of sexual status. No one respect a lock that any key can open.

And by the way, you think it would piss off feminists, but feminists have for the last 120 years said "votes for women, chastity for men", recognizing that sexual intercourse was dangerous and deleterious to women and a net gain for otherwise sexless men, who selfishly use women without a care for her health and safety in order to blow their load.

We also see this instantiated in 2000+ era with #metoo and other forms of "he sexually assaulted/harassed me" when women sleep with men on purpose in order to get movie roles and then turn around and claim sexual assault because a man gave them a choice of a job with sex or no job with no sex. And despite being the supposed 'free agents' to do either, they chose sex+job, and are now victims which we all agree are victims in the public/MSM sphere.

Sexual harassment and assault claims have ramped up by women to control male sexual behavior. Why would they be doing that if women aren't harmed by sexual interactions with men at a fundamental level?

Why would they have demanded Explicit Consent laws so that males who do not get EC in California colleges can actually be expelled for sexual assault because she didn't breathe the words "yes" to a "can I put my dick in you"?

Sex for females randomly is deleterious at best, and world-ending at worst (rape, etc). In fact, rape for women is a fate worse than death.

https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/134650.html

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/opinion/why-is-rape-different/6174/

Consider the gut reaction you have to someone saying "hey I just fucked this passed out girl lol". Is that gut reaction at all the same as a girl saying "hey I just fucked this passed out guy lol"?

[–]nforne 12 points13 points14 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]mwobuddy -5 points-4 points-3 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I think people are neglecting some important critical thinking.

Two 15 year olds can't consent to sex, yeah? They're both basically equals. Yet its still possible for one 15 year old to take advantage of the other 15 year old's immature state of mind. For instance, the root of age of consent laws revolved around men lying about marriage or love in order to gain access to 15 year old vaginas.

Why can't a 15 year old, male or female, manipulate or coerce another 15 year old into sex when the victim 15 year old was ambivalent but felt pressured to do so?

And why do we think that two adults who are equally drunk are not equivalent to two 15 year olds where, despite neither being capable of consenting, one can still take advantage of the other's mentally compromised position for sexual gratification?

I completely understand their visceral reaction. It doesnt make sense that something people have been doing forever is suddenly "wrong". When you attack core beliefs of people they become more rigid. We know this. Anyway, if these people would just think about the situation rather than react, they might realize that this is the logical conclusion, and part of the entire issue surrounding laws regarding CONSENT.

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/victims-victimes/def.html

Subsection 273.1(1) defines consent as the voluntary agreement of the complainant to engage in the sexual activity in question. Conduct short of a voluntary agreement to engage in sexual activity does not constitute consent as a matter of law.

For greater certainty, subsection 273.1(2) sets out specific situations where there is no consent in law; no consent is obtained:

where the agreement is expressed by the words or conduct of a person other than the complainant where the complainant is incapable of consenting to the activity

As we see, there is a person who is AGREEING to the sexual activity, but how can they agree to something which has not yet been offered to them. Thus someone must be offering it, and someone then has to 'consent' by agreeing.

And that consent is not valid if they're 'too drunk'.

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Unless someone slips them the MDMA, they made the decision as an adult knowing full and well that it will make them come onto and fuck people.

Why the fuck is it my responsibility to know other people's intake of substance and then prevent themselves from being sexually liberal with their advances?

You're a fucking moron.

Luckily all the people I was doing MDMA and coke with in college had atleast the little sense to know the difference between being a bit looser than they usually are and being raped.

It's all about the setting and context as to whether someone is being predatory or just having a good time as well.

The issue is when people put themselves in these situations, act like they normally wouldn't, and regret it in the morning. But rather than take responsibility for it they take it out on other people and fuck their lives up.

[–]mwobuddy -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]mwobuddy -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]mwobuddy -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]mwobuddy -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If a couple decided to take Quaaludes and have sex it's different from a guy seeing a girl clearly too fucked up (or vice versa) and seeing this as a opportunity to prey on someone.

Yeeah, most of bill cosby's 'victims' admitted they took it willingly.

It's not as black and white as you make it. It's all about intention right?

So there you have it. We've finally gotten to the root argument. And now the reveal; if its all about intention, then what matters is what's in someone's head (aka MINDREADING), and not the act itself.

If what matters is whats in someone's head, then how can you not believe a woman who claims victimhood status by saying "he took advantage of me because I was drunk"? After all, perhaps in her state she was willing to give in when otherwise sober she wouldn't have done so.

But "whats inside people's heads" IS PRECISELY how sexual assault and harassment laws work, and precisely how CONSENT works.

All we have to go on is people's claims. That's why there's a blanket law regarding intoxicated drug sex, same way with Age of consent sex, while they MIGHT have agreed willfully and witrhout any duress, they can just as easily be a victim of their own compromised state of mind through disinhibited behavior or pressure from their sex attacker, so regardless of whether the 15 year old or drunk woman consents, she can't really "consent", because how do we know that coercive tactics weren't used? How do we know that someone didn't see an opportunity to exploit a vulnerable person?

That's the reason for AoC law and no-sex-while-drunk law.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[+]-Awobabobbob-1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I've got a treat for you. My home town too, fucker got 4 years. It didn't really get any coverage but it happened. None of the accused had their names made public, so there's that I guess https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/crime/2018/05/24/shrewsbury-woman-30-is-jailed-for-false-rape-claims-after-appeal-over-lenient-sentence/

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[+]Rise_Of_War71 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

No one believes them because of all the liars.

Except we still haven't reached that point? Almost everyone by default assumes that what a woman is saying is true?

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[–]ndstumme -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

men are the only victims of FRAs

But they're not. This isn't men vs women, and if you think it is, you need to check yourself. Many actions, many crimes, affect multiple people and have multiple victims. Yes, the men falsely accused are the primary victims that feel the harshest sting, but if you think that they are the only person affected, then you clearly don't understand what it means to live in the real world.

And on the other hand, different groups of people come together to push for the same cause for different reasons all the time. There are some people who don't care about falsley accused men, but if we can convince them it's a problem anyway by pointing out the other effects these actions have, then we can get them on our side much easier.

You can't control other people's thoughts or what they value, but if you can tailor your cause to their values, then you're more likely to accomplish your goal. That applies to everything when interacting with other people, not just activism. It's the core concept of marketing and sales.

[–]tenchineuro 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

men are the only victims of FRAs

But they're not.

This was what I replied to...

I DO feel bad for women who are really raped. No one believes them because of all the liars.

It's the notion that the real victims of FRAs are women who were really raped, it's the notion that a man falsely accused is not a victim at all.

This isn't men vs women

You're right, this is a woman vs man thing, men can't make false rape accusations against women since they can't legally be raped anywhere in the world.

Yes, the men falsely accused are the primary victims that feel the harshest sting, but if you think that they are the only person affected, then you clearly don't understand what it means to live in the real world.

You clearly did not read the conversation and understand what it is about. But in you rush to make everyone affected victims, you do the same and minimize and ignore the only real victim. Everyone else can still go on with their lives, they don't face prison, they don't face loss of reputation, they don't face unemployment and unemployability, they don't face a single effect of the FRA because they are not victims of an FRA. They don't go to jail while the case is being investigated, they don't need to raise bail and hire a lawyer, they don't have to do anything because the entire coercive might of the government is not arrayed against them and their future.

There are some people who don't care about falsley accused men

Yeah, they care about the real victims, you know, like women who were really raped and apparently anyone the falsely accused knew.

but if we can convince them it's a problem anyway by pointing out the other effects these actions have, then we can get them on our side much easier.

All you seek to do is misdirect away from the only victim, and that shows that you don't care about them at all.

but if you can tailor your cause to their values

Oh, then we need to claim that the real victims of FRAs are women who were really raped, explain in detail how this will help.

[–]ndstumme 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

The only reason we're even still talking about women is because you keep bringing them up!

This phrase:

I DO feel bad for women who are really raped. No one believes them because of all the liars.

In no way implies:

It's the notion that the real victims of FRAs are women who were really raped, it's the notion that a man falsely accused is not a victim at all.

I get it. You desperately want it to imply that so you can in turn be angry at that implication. But it's simply not there. Stop putting words in other people's mouths and stop building strawmen.

If a drunk driver kills a parent, the kids are negatively affected. Does that mean the parent who got killed wasn't a victim? Am I trying to say that the kids left behind are the "real victims"?

If you think I am, then you need to reevaluate your life or even talk to a therapist. If the way your mind works is to think that every situation has exactly one victim and all others are trying to steal the spotlight, then you personally have bigger issues to address than false rape accusations. There is no goddamn spotlight.

[–]tenchineuro -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

This phrase:

I DO feel bad for women who are really raped. No one believes them because of all the liars.

In no way implies:

It's the notion that the real victims of FRAs are women who were really raped, it's the notion that a man falsely accused is not a victim at all.

Implies? The post outright says that women who were really raped are not believed because of women who lie about rape, and no mention is made of the men accused.

If a drunk driver kills a parent, the kids are negatively affected.

Nice job of moving the goalpost, but "negatively affected" is not the same thing as 'being a victim of', if the kids were victims of the drunk driver they'd be dead. Similarly, being negatively affected by a FRA is not the same as being a victim of an FRA, not by a long shot.

If you think I am, then you need to reevaluate your life or even talk to a therapist.

Wow, are you in some way qualified to make a diagnosis like this?

If the way your mind works is to think that every situation has exactly one victim

We're not talking about every situation, focus, we're talking about false rape accusations. And sometimes women do accuse more than one man.

There is no goddamn spotlight.

That's your strawman, I'll give you a C+ for knocking it down, but you need to add some ironic twist or a play on words to make it stand out more.

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[+]Gf3871 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

A bit over the top there.

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[+]PeteThePolarBear1 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

No, stupid. You're meant to fight fire with fire.

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[–]girlwriteswhat 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Women do tend to have more of a problem with sexual rejection. Honestly, I think it comes from rarely experiencing it, and certain stereotypes (grounded in reality) regarding men's and women's attitudes toward sex.

If you're raised in a culture where everything is telling you women are sexually cautious and choosy, you can chalk any rejection from a woman up to that cautiousness and choosiness. It's not YOU, it's her.

If you're raised in a culture where everything is telling you men will take whatever they can get sex-wise, any rejection from a man is all about YOU, not him. Women who are rejected will sometimes attempt to make it about the man--"are you GAY!!??" but a rejection is still something a woman will not expect as a matter of course.

There is no movement, for instance, demanding that society and women change their attitudes so they can find morbidly obese men sexually attractive, but there is one demanding this for morbidly obese women--body positive feminism. While "incel" and "true forced loneliness" communities exist for unattractive males who can't get sex or relationships, they're universally denigrated rather than celebrated in ads by major corporations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJlvtCzJPaQ

Meanwhile, women's ideal height requirements (6 feet or taller) for men comprise only 14% of the male population, and only 4%, as reported by HuffPo, say they would date a man who's shorter than they are. While women tend to blame this on men's insecurities about the height difference, 23% of men said they'd date a woman who was taller than they are.

Which conveniently circles back to women's higher levels of choosiness, whether real or merely perceived, and the "sexist" stereotype grounded in reality that women don't take sexual rejection well.

On top of ALL of that, we have the general courtship dance--women signal their availability and then wait for men to approach. Men make many such approaches and experience many rejections, and learn to deal with being rejected. Women make very few approaches and therefore see themselves as the rejectors, not the rejectees. They just don't get a lot of practice on how to gracefully deal with being rejected because they are so seldom the initiator of the overture.

And we can go look at nature, other animals. In most other sexually dimorphic social species, ALL females have access to sex and reproduction, but only a select few males do. The difference between a very sexually successful female and less successful one might be "I had 6 kids and you had only 4." For males, the spreadsheet looks very different. One male can monopolize the sexuality and reproductive potential of all the females in the group. That just doesn't happen the other way around, even among promiscuous species like chimps and bonobos. It's the males who compete with each other and also make sexual overtures with the females, and it's the females, even among gorillas and chimpanzees, who exercise veto power regarding sex.

Female gorillas will leave a group and seek out another if they don't like a new dominant male. Female chimpanzees will reject courtship overtures by males they don't like who deposed males they did like. But males? Rejecting females? Doesn't really happen.

So yeah. There's a lot going on here, and all of it points to women not being as capable of tolerating sexual rejection from men.

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https://media.wkrg.com/nxs-wkrgtv-media-us-east-1/photo/2018/07/09/JESSICA%20GALLAGHER%20MUGSHOT_1531162644821.jpg_48103380_ver1.0_640_360_1531186786389.jpg_48132209_ver1.0_640_360.jpg

There's a face for ya.

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Given bail was set at a MUHASSIVE 500 bucks cash (wonder how that compares to the average accused rapist?), this is going to amount to a wrist slap. When she gets to court, the judge will start with a stern talking to, then - after she starts to cry, poor thing - that will be downgraded to some gentle finger-wagging. Then before you know it, the psychopathic c*** will be getting herself a judicial backrub while the assembly en masse glares daggers at the evil, evil bastard who they now feel should really be on trial.
Have to wonder why he wouldn't give her a ride home... Maybe he was shrewd enough to work out how faulty her wiring was, and side-stepped the crazy. Then think about how large was the calibre of projectile he's dodged even with the trouble that's already been caused him.
Because if she'd managed to corner him alone in a car, whether she lied or not - his goose would've been roasted dry.

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[+]Mireille-Vintage1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Oh that's messed up! I hope she gets one heck of a long sentence in prison

[–]Matt22blaster[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]Mireille-Vintage1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Women like that make the rest of us look bad. I don't advocate violence but if I got my hands on a woman like that I would certainly teach her what's acceptable behavior. In fact I would hit her simply because I know that if a man did it he would go to jail.

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The folks at r/pussypassdenied might be interested in this.

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[–]Matt22blaster[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]uknownalias -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

I saw the full title, its just the final sentence doesn't make it clear that there was no rape. The man was not a rapist... I consider that to be key information.

It's clickbaiting in the worst way possible. The mens rights movement isn't meant to just despise women.

This title would shed bad light upon the male, not the female. Then the second sentence makes the woman seem at fault, but in reality the man did nothing wrong at all.

We read from left to right. You shouldn't just say that left sentence and then try and correct it in the second, simply to get peoples attention.

I don't know how or who added the flair "false accusation", but that still doesn't make it simple and clear...

"Woman lied to investigators because date did not drive her home", was the actual title of the article, and that is a better more accurate title than what you have written...

ALSO, Woman claims she was blindfolded, kidnapped, and forcibly raped by man she met on app. Turns out she was mad the guy didn't want to give her ride home. is the title of the post in /r/pussypassdenied , so why did you write a better title there, before posting here?

[–]Matt22blaster[S] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I can't tell if you're trolling or a little bit retarded, but I'll engage anyway. The title tells the story. Now that I'm looking back on it, I'm kind of amazed at how accurately I was able to sum up the entire article so few words. Its so well worded in fact, the title eliminates any need to even click the link and read the article. Such a great title was possibly a disservice to myself. I can imagine people thinking, "that synopsis is so well written, I couldn't possibly need any more information, on to the next article". If Reddit offered awards for most spot-on accurate title, I would be extremely surprised if I didn't get notoriety for this one. If you read through the comments, someone suggested the people in /r/pussypassdenied might like the article, and I submitted it there a day later. Have you considered seeing a psychiatrist?

[–]uknownalias -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Right back at you... The title is different in your two posts. And I am complaining only about the title in mensrights. Why? Because it's inaccurate. You can't just call me retarded and pretend the title is accurate. Because you're wrong... you'd get no award, and downvoting my comments by yourself is not going to change that. If you don't click the link you will think that the guy was a rapist... Because "turns out she was just mad the the wouldn't give her a ride home" is not necessarily interpreted as there was no rape. It is a vague statement that could mean that there was rape, but she was fine with it, so long as she got a ride home, but she didn't so only then did she report it to the police.

An example from the front page right now of a clear accurate title, that clearly states that it is a false rape claim "Woman given suspended sentence for false rape claim despite having been previously convicted of a false rape claim and numerous other false report"

Tldr: kill yourself, if someone doesn't in real life, for being irritating, you arrogant mug.

[–]Matt22blaster[S] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]uknownalias 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Woman calls 911 because man she met on app blindfolded, kidnapped and forcibly raped her. Turns out she was just mad that he wouldn't give her a ride home .

Comments

"Woman calls 911 because man she met on app blindfolded, kidnapped and forcibly raped her"