Dating 'travellers' and the Visa

Sage_Planter · 2022-01-10T05:23:33+00:00

I'm an immigrant living in America, and one of the rules I set up for myself when I moved here was that I wasn't going to get married until I had my green card through work. Sure, I dated before I got my green card, but I promised myself I wouldn't have my legal residency tied to someone else. Even if I met Mr. Perfect, I was staying unwed until I had my green card.

Unless someone has a solid plan to get permanent residency on their own (like I did), I'm pretty wary of situations like this. Immigration is really hard (trust me!), and a lot of couples don't understand the realities of international relationships when they start out. Either there's the sadness of long distance or the chaos of forcing a relationship to move unnaturally fast. I don't believe in soul mates, and there's always other people we could connect with.

creamtart_ · 2022-01-10T00:30:01+00:00

Visa/love dynamic is almost always a load of shit. Too many stories of non-citizens exploiting and manipulating citizens for sponsorship/permanent residency status, whatever it’s called in your country. I’ve seen this firsthand in my family. Once they gain perm residence/citizenship, their true colours show.

Your friend is a chump who is being manipulated. Sounds like she’s too deep in the fog to see the reality of her situation unfortunately.

There is no one-size-fits-all approach to this. Everyone has different relationship expectations. If you are marriage minded and want stability, then clearly this situation is not feasible. If you’re not looking for something serious, just want to have a few fun dates and this has been communicated/comprehended between both parties, then it may work.

cicerii · 2022-01-10T01:31:06+00:00

I knew a guy who was so desperate to secure a visa he was messaging women all over FB and dating sites to secure one. Not saying it can’t be real but I’m glad you are detaching. I also want to note that American guys are not such smooth talkers as guys in other cultures so American girls can easily become smitten and take stuff seriously when girls in their countries would just laugh them off because it’s so normal for men to profess their love like that. Be extra wary of men from more traditional countries because they will usually prefer women who are more submissive, malleable, younger, without kids, etc. An independent and outspoken western woman with tattoos who is not a virgin will not be on the table for them unless they are trying to get something. I’m not saying this to offend or say you or your friend are like that, but just illustrating an example. I’ve seen this with people from my culture and other immigrant cultures. Some of the 90 day fiancé couples are not as unusual as people may think 🤷‍♀️

sewingmachinesavior · 2022-01-10T01:20:37+00:00

If they have real feelings for you, they won’t push the move-in/marry/need citizenship thing. Most places you can leave for a particular number of days and get a new visa. It varies between countries. This would be a super red flag. I hope your friend sees the lovebombing for what it is and doesn’t give up her security to be fleeced by this man.

Specific-Composer300 · 2022-01-10T09:58:58+00:00

Men like this are users and leeches

AnniaT · 2022-01-10T01:26:02+00:00

Why would we go for men who live in foreign countries and that is so complicated to date instead of men that live near given the choice? I don't care about how many women got success with this as it's complicated and unnecessary to choose it actively when other easier and more comfortable choices like dating a man in our area or being single exist.

Geocities_SEO_Expert · 2022-01-10T02:06:11+00:00

It's a terrible idea, just from a financial perspective. Marriage doesn't automatically guarantee citizenship, he'll still have to hire a lawyer and go through the full expensive process. He'll probably still have to leave and re-do the visa at least once. Since he's pulling this nonsense, he probably has little money, and a low demand career that would put him at the bottom of the regular immigration queue.

It's just my observation that a lot of these guys seem to come from wealthy homes in poor countries, and they have no motivation to work once Dad isn't supervising, and expect the wife to take over for Mom. They expect a completely compliant bangmaid with no needs, who will work full time to support him while he wastes his degree and works a poverty level job.

herbivorouscarnivore · 2022-01-10T04:23:09+00:00

The only one I know of that didn’t make my skin crawl: my friends are of the same ethnicity, and they had trustworthy family who could vouch for them. The ethnicity matters, because we’re all pretty tight knit and connected. If the international person was sketchy, it would have been brought to light.

Otherwise, no: I think this power dynamic is too risky:

Platipus6 · 2022-01-10T01:53:19+00:00

It's an anti-inbreeding drive to want "men from another village".

If she won't listen, I guess sit back and watch the train-wreck unfold as she makes a baby with him and he scoots.

Keepers12345 · 2022-01-10T03:43:22+00:00

Imho, if we're talking about a man here in the U.S. on a temporary Visa:

If doesn't have a solid plan in place for staying in the U.S., then he surely has one plan in place, finding someone to marry him.

There's no way that you can fall in love under those conditions.

Marrying an American woman is the dream for so many men living in foreign countries.

If he doesn't marry your friend, he'll find someone else to fall in love with him. Maybe he already has a backup. Maybe your friend is the backup.

There is no way that this relationship is authentic, or naturally unfolding.

I recommend that you stay far away. You don't know what he's capable of doing. Does he have a girlfriend, wife, and/or children that he's keeping secret back in his home country? Is he trying to secure a way to get his family to come here too? Whether it's your friend or another woman, married is his ticket and foot in the door.

There will be (and already is) manipulation. She can't take it at her own pace. Everything is at his pace, rushed, with that false sense of missing out on a good deal (like a clearance sale sign).

katiekat0214 · 2022-01-10T02:19:30+00:00

This is almost every man I meet on chat. They are, to a person, all hobosexuals. Education, work history, personal history, all spotty or made up. I keep circling back and asking the same question, the stories keep changing. Invariably they always have a kid, are broke. THEY ARE LOOKING FOR WELL-INTENTIONED WOMEN TO TAKE FOR A RIDE TO BANKRUPTSVILLE.

These men are EFFING LEECHES. I have no doubt they know enough of the legal system to make any woman's life a living hell. They would take a woman for everything she has, and feel no regret whatsoever if she becomes homeless. I get the distinct feeling they have a "what's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine" attitude. I wouldn't put identity theft past them, and I also would not put it past them to change names on anything having to do with money. In fact, I'd go so far as never invite these men inside your house UNLESS you have all your financial information locked up. Paranoid? Yes, I own it, and safe from scrotes who want to use, steal, and dump, then move on to the next victim.

These men are looking for INTELLIGENT PACK MULES. Abort. Run.

n0ty0urb4rb13 · 2022-01-10T13:22:04+00:00

The visa dynamic in a romantic relationship is shit.

I'm from the u.s living in another country on a partner visa, my partner is a citizen of the country we live in.

My partner is a nvm who's put me through so many terrible things because he can and because he's a citizen here. He knows if I dump him I wouldn't have anywhere else to go, any money, and I'd have to leave the country.

I will be dumping him and going back to the u.s as soon as I get the money together

Don't ever believe the pipe dream fed around visa's and romance.

jenna_grows · 2022-01-10T13:28:08+00:00

I know a woman from South Africa who married a man for a green card in Florida, then left him. My South African aunt and her friend each married Pakistani men, who left them without a trace. At least the South African woman had the courtesy of properly divorcing the Floridian man.

I personally would always doubt motives in this kind of situation.

esthermaniii · 2022-01-10T19:56:32+00:00

90 day fiancé is proof that people will do anything for a visa. Your friend is being fleeced!

jrl2014 · 2022-01-10T22:45:44+00:00

All the middle eastern or Indian men with graduate degrees knew at least to signal on first dates that they had their own visa pathways through their employers to avoid looking like LV leaches.

I should've been more wary of it regardless. But it turns out you can spot red and yellow flags other than the visa issues after a coffee date or two and use those as a disqualifier. I think--now that I'm a bit more cynical--I should just date American men of my own ethicity, similar education levels, but at least with say, a British PhD, when you're drawing him out what he's saying sounds more interesting than an American man.

blehblahbloopboop · 2022-01-10T00:37:23+00:00

Wendy Deng did it. You can see how that turned out.

egyptologist13 · 2022-01-10T00:50:50+00:00

International relationships are difficult, not only because of the visa issue. Obviously there are LV humans that would do anything to expand their visa and its important to keep that in mind. Even when the visa is sorted out following problems might arise:

Family staying back. It doesnt matter if you are in your own country or in theirs. There WILL BE difficulties involving families. Might it be simple being home sick or holidays or a family member being or dying, someone will regret not being in their own country where the family is. Especially with the virus preventing lots of travelling/interferes with the possibility to crows borders.
Cultural differences. You might come from countries similar enough, but you might come from countries with massive differences. They can be so little that you wont even notice them in the begin, but they will annoy you at some point. It doesnt matter if it is the food, the religion/traditions or simply their social standards (imagine a european running around naked in the house - they might think its normal but the average american would think its strange, or a french person who is used to greet guests with kisses, which might spark some jealousy in their partner).
Just missing their home country. It doesnt have to do anything with their family or friends. They might just miss their landscape (mountains, ocean, you name it), or miss talking/hearing their native language.

Then there are also some red flags to pay attention to:

How do the partners that are not in their home country react to the new countries politics? Do they care? Do they know who is in charge? How do they keep up with national holidays? Do they remember stuff or do they weep over their own national holidays? Can they adjust to the population in the new country? Or do they refuse to adapt in any way?

Long story short, personally I avoid international relationships. There are just so many things that could go wrong and most people dont think and talk about it appropiatly.

No-Adagio-1572 · 2022-01-10T01:27:49+00:00

It is very prevalent people won’t stop at anything to get the visa they want. Also these men often have a wive and children back in their home country. They may appear very charming because they want to manipulate you into doing something for their benefits. No decent man would bring up something like that so soon and in such classless manner.

Ocean417 · 2022-01-10T01:28:33+00:00

My friend has been in THREE relationships where all he has wanted is a visa. Heartbroken every single time. Currently in a fourth relationship with a guy who just happens to be from overseas smh.

clytemnestra_23 · 2022-01-10T01:47:31+00:00

I grew up first generation American in an Eastern European immigrant community. I would say 75% of men from the home country were looking for a visa when dating first generation immigrant girls they met while the girls were visiting the home country. Men will run these visa scams and turn around after a couple months and start screwing around and/or asking for a divorce. Not worth the risk.

brideofgibbs · 2022-01-10T01:51:49+00:00

I think a good test of whether he’s a HVM or LVM is to suggest relocating to his country.

If it is true love, living in his country with his family should be part of a viable future, right? HVM should be able to envisage setting up their wives in their own culture and protecting them.

Even a visit to his mother and his sisters should start to winnow the wheat from the chaff. Traditional men looking for a visa don’t want their “pure” women mixing with independent ambitious women and getting ideas

plumeriaworld · 2022-01-10T02:46:17+00:00

I do not date men who do not have at least permanent residency (really I require citizenship). I am first generation American and have waaaayyy too relatives who have essentially used women to obtain citizenship here. It would have to be an exceptional guy for me to consider dating someone here just on a temporary visa…and I mean he would need to have a tremendously better lifestyle and resources that demonstrate that he does not need me for security/visa purposes. It’s far too risky imo.

poffincase · 2022-01-10T03:18:35+00:00

it's so awkward really. i love watching 90 day fiance and although it might not represent a majority of LDRs well, i think it's really uncomfortable to see the power dynamic between the american and the non-american sometimes. in some cases it seems so predatory. obviously someone from a poor country wants to make sacrifices for a better life, and sometimes they're taken advantage of. and then sometimes the american really is looking for someone good, but they do get scammed for a visa.

added pressure of getting married for them to stay, especially if you're young, not very financially stable to sponsor a spouse etc. it's crazy.

AdelaQuested24 · 2022-01-10T03:23:38+00:00

Another hobosexual, just with a foreign accent. I'm sorry to hear your friend is falling for it and hope she can disentangle herself.

thefutureisXX · 2022-01-10T05:43:38+00:00

Don’t do it! I ignored the red flags. You really can’t vet properly. I thought I married a HVM and so did my sister with her husband. Turns out even though mine doesn’t cheat, he’s lazy and isn’t ambitious and has a touch of the man child. My sisters husband straight up had another family and never saw my sister and their son once he had his visa. There’s that saying, you can fall in love with a rich man just as easily as a poor man. Well, you can fall for someone close by just as easily.

Another downfall about long distance is you tend to romanticize the person unconsciously, whereas in-person you might have got “the ick” a month in. Accents and culture also tend to pull you in. For example, I later learned my husband didn’t do well with women in his country. But I couldn’t see it. Pretty sure he just married the first person (me) that would take him. So I’m dealing with that. Just, don’t do it if you can help it.

I really hope the mods approve this comment bc it’s one of the biggest mistakes I made. My sister too!

carolizine · 2022-01-10T07:44:18+00:00

I have an example from my own life: I am from the US and work for an international company. While on a 3 month work rotation for my company in Germany, I met a German man and we really hit it off. We stayed in contact after I came back to the US, and throughout the next year I had several business trips to that office again, so we saw each other at least every 2 months.

I’m addition to liking him, I also loved the German office and really liked the city and German lifestyle, so I applied for a job at that office and got the offer! My visa is therefore sponsored by my company and not my relationship, which is honestly the only acceptable form of visa in my opinion.

I would have NEVER moved here just for the guy (even though we are still together), for me it was all 3: work, city, and then guy.

At the same time, I know a woman in the US who MARRIED her bf (from a poorer country) for visa reasons and then when they got settled in the US she realized she didn’t like him 🤦🏻‍♀️ so for me, it should always be for work and lifestyle reasons, not just a relationship.

Xenobia95 · 2022-01-10T09:11:52+00:00

Age sometimes is a factor, we have loads of stories about 50+ woman marries waiter 18 and two years later it's waiter left me as soon as visa came through.

It's a minefield, love bombing, isolation, sex too soon and too much.

Dey_la_soul · 2022-01-10T09:21:30+00:00

I’ve heard more bad stories than good. I would definitely avoid if the relationship starts with the person needing status. If you’re in a relationship and the person falls out of status after some years, I think that is a much better scenario, but people can plan years in advance so always be cautious. I dated a guy who was on a student visa for b-school and he maintained his status through work after graduating. He never brought up marriage/visa. We had a rocky relationship so it would have been a major red flag if he did.

I recently had an acquaintance tell me a story about how she married a guy friend to help him get his papers. He moved in with her, lost his job and depended on her financially for everything. He was a leech and she was in hell for years until he got his papers and she could finally kick him out. No good deed goes unpunished.

I think a lot of women underestimate what they are signing up for when they marry someone who needs a visa/citizenship. Not only is it a time commitment (application process and interviews), but you are also telling the government that you will be financially responsible for this individual. It’s a major risk. I think the going rate for fake marriage is $75K-$100K which is why these men are out here trying to manipulate women for the free free.

I will note that getting paid to do this or paying someone is also a major risk (in addition to it being illegal with penalty of prison and $250K fine) because you open yourself up to extortion/blackmail/sexual coercion.

Mrsbaz · 2022-01-10T13:04:47+00:00

So many red flags here and that's coming from a woman who is married to an immigrant. Now what made me feel comfortable dating my husband was he had taken care of his own immigration process completely: - He had been here for several years, and renewed his visa a few times on his own. - The ways he renewed his visa checked out; ie school, having his grad school degree hanging, his job, etc. - He hired a lawyer to help him file for his greencard before we got married, as he had worked hard of his own accord to get to a place where he could become a citizen. He has several publications, etc, where he is the type of immigrant the US government wants. - He has been working hard to make all this possible since he was literally 12 years old in his home country, and can talk all about that process and how he got here of his own hard work. - Because of this my husbands views on immigration are actually a lot more conservative then mine. He hates illegal immigrants while I can understand and empathize especially with women trying to make a better life.

These were all green flags. However in addition to this please remember to vet for differences in culture! I am very lucky my husband is how he is, he is the rare man in his culture which is very patriarchal. We have the same traditional values, but we are equal partners in everything we do.

sparkieplug · 2022-01-10T17:30:58+00:00

I am America but work abroad in the humanitarian field. We have term for someone like this man, your friend is dating, “visa chaser..” Men and woman pursue a relationship with someone solely to obtain immigration benefits. The visa chaser will divorce once they obtain permanent residency and don’t need to be married to maintain their immigration status.

gold_sunsets · 2022-01-11T04:25:01+00:00

My parents were a visa-love marriage. Divorced after many rather unhappy decades.

I've had this situation with dating a number of times as I bought into the fairytale that love overcomes distance, and of course I support immigration as it's a bit of my family story.

Guy 1: We were in different countries at the time and had only met once. He texted all day every day despite the singular meeting. He asked detailed questions about marriage, divorce, employment, child rights etc in my country. He was offended and stopped talking to me after I asked if he was only interested because I could offer residency. I understand taking offence, but I felt it was a valid question given the circumstance.

Guy 2: Never mentioned visa, but was on a short term visa, and was instantly love bombing me, pushing my boundaries and then became aggressive when I told him I wasn't interested. Can't say it was due to visa necessarily, but some big red flags.

The other thing I'd note, from my parents experience, is to make sure you're on the same page about values if you are cross-cultural and looking long term. Especially whether family is something you support (financially, emotionally, with labour - at what times? When sick? When in need? In what ways: money, labour, etc? Or never?). So called "Western" countries tend to be more individualistic (each person for themselves) whereas some cultures are more communal and expect to help the family in any way possible. Everyone falls somewhere on that spectrum regardless of culture/country. This was a big issue with my parents.

Hope this helps!

ETA: Reminds me of a guy who told me about a girlfriend who dated long distance for a year, and he dumped her after 3 months of arriving because she was too needy. She just moved halfway across the world for him...no family, friends or job. It could have been much worse if he was malicious. Be careful, ladies!

Title	Dating 'travellers' and the Visa
Author	Owl-right
Upvotes	182
Comments	52
Date	January 10, 2022 12:12 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/s05qyn/dating_travellers_and_the_visa/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/dating-travellers-and-the-visa.1095481 https://theredarchive.com/post/1095481

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