Let's stop using 'incel' as an insult

zaph239 · 2023-01-23T21:49:26+00:00

The big problem is incel=terrorist, which is one of the more absurd moral panics I have ever seen. If the mainstream claims about that were true, we would be truly fucked. The number of men without sex lives, who want them, must conservatively number in 100's of thousands across the Western world. in reality the number is probably in the millions.

If incels were really as dangerous as the moral panic claims, we would be seeing epic levels of violence. In reality we have seen a few tragic events, caused by a toxic combination of mentally ill people and easy access to guns. Events which are hardly restricted to incels, many similar attacks have been perpetuated by the unemployed for example but nobody claims the jobless are all terrorists.

So lonely and celibate men are trapped. Incel forums are now labelled extremist and if they try to go feminists for support, they are mocked or called toxic. Told they are to blame for being lonely and sexless. Which I would argue is the true toxicity here.

neighborhoodpainter · 2023-01-23T23:18:35+00:00

It's bad to shame women for their sex life, but okay to shame men for their, lack of, sex life. I know the typical response from feminists is, "It's not as bad to shame men for being virgins and incels because women have actually been killed for being "sluts"". Well, that may or may not be true, but if you shame men long enough for being virgin, misogynistic, incels, they'll start to lash out, mostly towards themselves, i.e. self harm, or sometimes, kill others.

TheTinMenBlog · 2023-01-23T20:09:33+00:00

To have a small army of adults hypothecate over my sex life is, to say the least, highly unusual.

“Hahaha! Okay virgin!”

You know, it’s been many, many years since I’ve been in this position.

My last experience likely being some kind of generic school boy taunting in the toilets, a sign cello-taped to my backpack, or perhaps a crass comment yelled at me from a bus window.

It’s to be expected I suppose; from pouty knuckle-dragging teenagers, just muddling their way through pubescence. But I don’t expect the same brand of silliness from a bunch of virtuous twenty-something year old adults.

The professional Instagramer, the so-called social media acolyte, the great tassel twirling guardian of morality, or the valiant patriarchy-busting male feminist; each taking time out of their busy schedule of outrage, to come and regurgitate the same tired insults I literally heard when I was 15.

Luckily some things are simply too idoitic, to be offensive.

So whilst I am touched that my sex life is of so much importance, to so many people, I'd rather use this opportunity to explore the achingly ironic, face-slappingly-stupid parallels between ‘Incel’ and ‘Slut’.’

'Slut’, which derides women for having too much sex, and ‘Incel’ which derides men for not having enough, both of which operate upon the same harmful sex based value system.

It’s bizarre.

‘Incel’ was once a self-identifying term, used by a very specific group of men, but has now been appropriated by a bunch of sassy internet brats to describe; conservatives, MRAs, lonely, depressed or conventionally unattractive men, Johnny Depp fans, gamers, those still living at home, autistic men, poor men and the unemployed…

All of them I’ve now seen brandished, with similar enquiries launched into their sex lives too.

And I’m bored of it. Bored of waiting for the light of hypocrisy to turn on, and for the gears to finally click.

Waiting, patiently, for those who paint themselves as some kind of messianic saviour, to finally realise, they’re actually just a different kind of problem.

So what do you think?

Is it time we stop using "Incel" as an insult?

~

'Geniuses of Instagram', is a running theme of posts I want to do – the first is here.

Images by Dan Cristian Padure, Gradienta, Darius Bashar fro Unsplash.

TheLWMA · 2023-01-23T20:47:00+00:00

The accusation of being an incel is even worse. Not only are you accused of being a virgin, but you’re also accused of being a misogynist.

(I know most incels aren’t misogynistic, but that’s the common view of them).

hotpotato138 · 2023-01-23T23:53:32+00:00

Story: I watch YouTube videos of a woman, who seems to be a left wing feminist. In one of her videos, she said some "incel" complimented her by saying she is cute online. He didn't say anything vulgar. It was just a normal compliment. Her channel is about movie reviews.

I was shocked to hear that because I thought she was a good person overall. I felt like commenting on the video and telling her not to use "incel" as an insult. I also felt like asking, "Should all men stop complimenting you?" Lmao

Moist-Slide9247 · 2023-01-24T08:35:40+00:00

I would also like to point out how incredibly insensitive “incel” becomes when it concerns men who are traumatized from sexual assault and asexual men.

There are an over-abundant of men who refuse or are very hesitant to participate in sexual activity (out of fear, repulsion, PTSD, etc) because of an act of rape/sexual assault that has affected them. Most people who are sexually assaulted feel this way, they don’t have sex, as they are fearful of experiencing such abuses again. Many sexually assaulted women are also like this, but you don’t see their refrain from sexual activity weaponized against them to the extent as it is against male victims. How fucking disgusting is it that men who aren’t sexual due to SA are also “incels”? To assume that any man with basic human decency for other men is an “incel”, even if said man has been sexually abused, is so fucked up on so many layers. From the get go; the term makes the assumption that any person called an incel hasn’t been sexually abused. Considering how the majority of men are referred to as incels, it makes the proclamation that the majority of men haven’t experienced any form of sexual misconduct.
I feel disgusted as a NB person whose been sexually harassed; I can’t imagine how sexually assaulted men refraining from sex feel when they’re called an “incel”. Absolutely vile.

Also- Men/male-aligning people from the ace/greysexual spectrum are automatically affected; their lack of sexual attraction/activity due to their sexual orientation (something not of their choice, duh) is blatantly ignored and mocked. This is aphobia, a form of discrimination against asexual people. The belief that everyone is a sexual being, and that those who aren’t have something “wrong” with them, which is exactly what “incel” implies. That men who aren’t sexually active are somehow “bad” and not deemed “fit” in societal standard. Ace men aren’t “real” men. Not all men are sexual creatures; asexual men exist. And there are many ace men in these forums. Incel is a term to fit this aphobic discrimination.

Not only that, but there are many “voluntary celibate” men who choose abstinence because of their own free will. To imply that there is no man who voluntarily refrains from sex for his own choice is ridiculous. I would say most men aren’t that desperate for sex, so for “incel” to almost always be used as a term against most men is just dumb. Especially since almost all the men I’ve seen been called “incel” are men who ARE sexually active, or who don’t care too much about their sex life.

The term “incel” doesn’t just become sexist, body-shaming, classist, and ableist by default- it also becomes LGBTQphobic and utterly dehumanizing to men who refrain from sexual activity due to a sexual abuse. I shouldn’t have to further explain how abhorrent this is. It’s just as bad- if not, worse- than “slut”, as at least slut is demonized and not encouraged.

Punder_man · 2023-01-23T21:12:47+00:00

As I keep saying over and over again: "If feminists didn't have double standards, then they wouldn't have any standards"

I keep wondering how for a group that claims to be about "Equality" can not reflect upon the things they are saying / the actions they are taking and realize that they are becoming the sexist bigots they claim to be fighting against.

And rather than understand this and grow and become better they will instead double, triple and quadruple down on their bigotry, finding excuses / reasons to justify why labeling men as 'incels' is acceptable while labeling women as 'sluts' is not.

I'd be keen to use their own tactics against them and accuse them of perpetuating Toxic Masculinity, that that would involve somewhat legitimizing that awful term..
I can not agree with the sentiments of this post enough. Good job TinMan!

lazygerm · 2023-01-23T21:41:15+00:00

I was just swiping through the rising popular posts and I saw this thread.

I’d like to understand better. What does incel mean now versus when most first heard the term? Is it society that changed the definition? Is incel even a valid descriptive anymore? And if not, what term I’d preferred now?

My understanding of the term incel was, that it is short for involuntarily celibate. Now there could be many reasons for being involuntarily celibate. Maybe someone has social anxiety or maybe it’s simply inexperience. Perhaps, something more perfidious; like the societal expectations of the opposite sex are the cause.

I’m just really interesting learning someone else’s POV. If this offends anyone, I’ll delete this this.

Troll4everxdxd · 2023-01-24T00:40:30+00:00

Fuckin yes! Spot on. The problem with a lot of self righteous people on the left, is that when they call out a problem (usually a real problem), they do it with the mindset that others need to correct their behaviour, check their privilege, stand up to negative attitudes, amongst other things.

They don't have introspection, self criticism, humility. They just climb to their high horses and start preaching morality as if they were brave heroes surrounded by bigots, misogynists, fascists, racists, nazis and whatever. And in doing so, they lose sight of their own flaws, their own contributions to the problems they call out.

KentuckyTriedFlickin · 2023-01-24T04:26:36+00:00

Ironically, when a woman calls a man an "incel" they are often objectifying woman and their selves as sexual objects. So, really they are telling on their selves and their beliefs on sexual value.

hotpotato138 · 2023-01-23T21:23:03+00:00

This is just normalizing misandry. There are 2 types of men, based on my observations, who get called an "incel."

The man who disagreed with a feminist. The feminist felt threatened and called him an incel. The man might be sexually active or not, but the feminist doesn't care.
Men with bad social skills due to mental illnesses or disabilities.

I don't feel offended when a feminist calls me an "incel." It's more offensive to men who have bad social skills due to mental illnesses or disabilities. I think it's okay to criticize men who are misogynists for misogyny. I don't think there's anything wrong with being celibate.

knightfluttershy · 2023-01-23T20:36:52+00:00

One thing which I think needs addressing is the absolute HORSESHIT dodge of “Oh incel is a self-identifier used by toxic misogynists who belong to a woman-hating subculture”.

Never, even in my life have I heard anyone use the term “incel” as a self-identifier: it’s an insult, a slur, nothing more. This is merely an excuse these people use to justify male virgin-shaming: do they really think men struggling with this problem are going to see comments about how evil and toxic incels are and find this helpful?

I have tried to raise this point, and in response, never have I seen such aggression and hatred from both the right and the left.

I am of the opinion that seriously arguing in favour of rights is never going to be comfortable, and that this level of irrational fury and hatred is a sign of a serious rot in society.

TisIChenoir · 2023-01-28T18:43:43+00:00

Just want to point something out.

When people call someone incel, or virgin, what they mean is "you have not been vetted by women, and are therefore of lesser value".

It does link the value of a man to his sexual history.

But, it also means something else. It means that, as much as they'll deny it, these type of persons are very aware that, in some respect, women are gatekeeping sex. Because if you're insult hinges on the idea that you have to be sexually accepted by women to have value, it implies that women are doing the vetting. Via sex.

So it also point a huge hypocrisy of these people imho who will shout from the top of their lungs are not the gatekeepers of sex.

And in turns in justifies slut-shaming. Because if a woman's role is to gatekeep sex, a woman who has a lot of sex with a lot of partners doesn't respect the gender role.

Please note that I'm absolutely not for slut-shaming. Every one should be free to do as they please*. But the logic behind the "incel" insult can lead to some absurd extremes.

Also, I've seen the trend online to shame people who are uncomfortable with other people having a high body-count, and I don't understand. It doesn't affect you how they are, and if they're uncomfortable, that's their right. It might show different values that they have a hard time accepting, and we need to respect that, as long as it doesn't devolve into slut-shaming. I've also heard plenty of times people say that women are shamed for it, but did you ever see that? If you tell anyone you know about a guy having had 150 partners, I'm pretty sure nobody's going to say he's awesome for it.

bsanchey · 2023-01-24T09:13:03+00:00

Yeah it’s time to stop using that term. When I’m first started it was involuntary celibate for guys who were trying to have sex and relationships but we’re unsuccessful.

Now it’s a derogatory term and worse is that it’s associated with being a far right troll. Then you have horrible people like nick fuentes who poplar rises it for far right trolls.

Not every socially unsuccessful guy is a far right troll.

CoffeeBoom · 2023-01-24T06:25:37+00:00

That last panel kinda goes against the spirit of the whole presentation.

SaltSpecialistSalt · 2023-01-24T09:48:26+00:00

the thing about "incelism" is that it is a mental illness like depression. for whatever reason these people are trapped in their minds and living hell every moment. and guess what, the more you alienate these people there will be more shootings and other acts of terrorism from them. so by using incel as an insult you are not only making fun of mentally ill people you are also helping them radicalize even more. it is just high school bullying in a different form and shows the true character of who uses it.

Tardigrade_Disco · 2023-01-23T22:24:40+00:00

Feminism hasn't been about equality for decades.

Lizzardkinglucas · 2023-01-23T20:38:02+00:00

Cannot possibly agree with this more.

blaizken_420 · 2023-01-24T19:18:20+00:00

It reinforces valuing people based purely on sex. It's hilariously hypocritical.

vaaralinen · 2023-01-25T19:54:24+00:00

and let's also stop blaming "toxic masculinity" for misandry and misandristic insults mainly used by women

Big-Seaworthiness3 · 2023-01-28T03:35:10+00:00

This 100%. A lot of the times incel is used as an insult not only to men for being sexually inactive, but also to men who express their emotions and actually stand up for them. Apparently being mad or angry isn't valid if you are a male for some people.

Banake · 2023-01-26T00:41:30+00:00

I don't always agree with Kerzner, but her tweet is spot on.

Moist-Quiet-647 · 2023-01-27T17:45:45+00:00

The problem is that "incel" is used inconsistently. I could mean anything the literal meaning of "involuntary celibate" to Elliot Roger. Feminists (and everyone else, really) use this ambiguity by using "incel" in the former sense as an insult, but insist they meant the latter when called on it.

LagSlug · 2023-01-25T13:51:16+00:00

"Incel" doesn't actually describe someone who is "involuntarily celibate", it's describing a group of people who are anti-femnist and who adopted that moniker themselves as a camouflaging strategy. Incels are predators who are using the naivety of the public to hide their true intentions. It's perfectly reasonable to use slurs to refer to groups of predatory men.

Micsuking · 2023-01-25T07:43:56+00:00

Self-proclaimed "incels" on many forums, such as 4Chan, have shown time and time again just how vile and toxic they are. I highly advise you and anyone here to not refer to themselves as one.

"Not all incels" argument is just simply stupid and irrelevant when the vast majority of them are just awful people.

By any normal sense of the word, I would also be an "incel" yet I would never in a hundred years refer to myself as one under normal circumstances. I will also keep using incel as an insult whenever it fits.

Supermarioredditer · 2023-04-14T12:36:02+00:00

The media promotes Toxic masculinity by misusing the word Incel.. The ideal men in their eyes must look masculine yet woke like Justin trudeau.

That's never never criticize womens priveleges Look masculine in language and appearance With "I ♥️ woke" shirt

selecadm · 2023-05-21T07:51:25+00:00

The most wrong thing about calling someone “incel” is the idea that men are entitled to sex. No, we are not. If a man rapes a woman, he will go to jail. As it should be so. Oh you mean man should have social skills, housing, money, etc, to seduce a woman and have consensual sex with her? My opinion is that this is also bad, of course not as bad as literal rape. Seeing r/Seduction subreddit makes me want to vomit and I am a man. Sex should be after mutual interest, not after “buying” a woman’s time. It’s more fair to go to a sex worker. But then other women will say “eww gross” and refuse to date, if they ever find out. Trying to ask a woman out can result in being laughed at, called a creep, yelled at for thinking you are in the same “league”, etc. Watching porn alone results in none of these.

So once again, why say “incel”? You won’t have sex with a man who you call “incel”, to fix this imaginary problem. Other women probably also. Because it’s all women’s absolute right to refuse sex. Your body, your choice. Using “incel” as an insult is like you’re waiving this very right. Disgusting.

Title	Let's stop using 'incel' as an insult
Author	TheTinMenBlog
Upvotes	508
Comments	150
Date	January 23, 2023 8:09 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/10jm353/lets_stop_using_incel_as_an_insult/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/lets-stop-using-incel-as-an-insult.1149195 https://theredarchive.com/post/1149195

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