Radical Feminist Mom Requesting Help

Neat_Zookeepergame99 · 2022-06-18T16:23:50+00:00

Warren Farrell has some good stuff. You should check him out. He's an author.

In my opinion, the best way to do away with your distaste for men is to ask yourself if your bad experiences with them are essential to who a man is; meaning, if they're one and the same.

You'll find in abuse statistics that the sex of the perps are rather even, proving that it isn't predominantly a man thing. And even if they did make up the majority, it doesnt tell the whole story; because now you have figure out how predominant it is within the group (sex) itself. And much like all the bad things radfems like to blame on men like rape and murder, you'll find that it's not predominant at all.

a-man-from-earth · 2022-06-18T16:56:54+00:00

Good for you for realizing you need to do right by your son and for being open-minded to seek out more balanced views!

I second the recommendation for Warren Farrell. He's very balanced and research-oriented. You'll find plenty of interviews with him about his book The Boy Crisis.

I'd also recommend Greg Ellis, an actor (and friend of Johnny Depp) who more recently became an activist for father's rights and started a YouTube channel on which he does a lot of interviews, such as for example with Erin Pizzey, who started the first DV refuge.

International_Crew89 · 2022-06-18T16:50:45+00:00

Welcome to the community! And congrats on becoming more self-aware/self-improving and the newborn!

matrixislife · 2022-06-18T18:56:43+00:00

I have become somewhat misandrist.

Very probably, and understandably. Bad experiences lead to bad feelings. But the first step in solving a problem is recognising you have a problem, so you're doing ok. You may not be able to change your feelings anytime soon, the important part is making sure you try not to hurt your son or the other men around both of you, he WILL pick up on you treating men badly even if you treat him ok.
No sources I'm afraid, but try to be generous with your feelings, give people the benefit of the doubt. Don't be a pushover, but if you are fair to men in general you will also be fair with your son.

Sorry-Difference5942 · 2022-06-18T21:53:56+00:00

I can only speak to my own experience here - my parents had a very level headed view of gender growing up.

But in college I dated someone who held many of your same beliefs, and it almost broke me as a person. These were crucial years in my self exploration and I internalized so many horrible things because of it.

I am happy you can admit to being too hard on men, but be aware that this is not going to be fixed by reading a few books and mulling them over. This will likely take a radical change of your beliefs which may involve breaking down a lot of ego and protective mechanisms. Without that, I suspect your son will be able to detect misandry from you a mile away.

I suggest seeking out men's lived experiences and trying to understand what men truly need and want in modern society. I've noticed that what is portrayed in media and what is taught to women are nowhere near what actually happens in the minds of men. Media depictions of men are caricatures at best. What your male friends discuss with you is likely heavily filtered. What men actually feel and experience is tremendously different from what we say - because society doesn't allow us to openly and seriously talk about the bad parts. Perhaps look at writeups of trans men's experiences and how they were treated differently before and after their transition. What you find may surprise you.

Lastly, I want you to know what it feels like to be a man trying to appease a misandrist. Malehood puts you into a box of very specific things you cannot do. Everyone - women and men alike - judges you based on your ability to fit within the box. Trying to meet the requests of a misandrist is like being given an entirely separate box with entirely different allowable actions. Except you can't be in both boxes at once. You cannot be a perfect man and appease everyone in society. It literally cannot be done - the expectations are so vastly misaligned that it's an impossible scenario. Do not let that happen to your son. Encourage good values. Encourage healthy boundaries. But be very, very wary of specifying "this is the only way to be a good man" to him, because there is no such thing. There's a million ways to be a good upstanding and healthy man.

And he will make mistakes. Some benign. Some, much less so. Don't write him off at the first sign of conflict. Don't bring gender into discussions where it has no place. It's so alienating to be having a quiet bad day and have someone say "ugh, such a guy thing". Tackle problems at a personal level, not one of generalization.

I wish you luck with your journey, and I hope you open yourselves to perspectives and experiences outside your own.

DaoScience · 2022-06-18T22:58:08+00:00

I read about a study a while ago that found that when boys play fight adults, mainly women, misinterpret it as actual fighting or at least unhealthy aggression. And that this was much less so for women who had brothers since they had experience differentiating rough, aggressive play from actual fighting by observing their brothers. I find it highly problematic when such play is stopped and shamed because boys learn that parts of what is normal and healthy for them is identified as aggressive and wrong. Such boys easily end up repressing their anger and assertiveness with all the issues that entails. I think looking out for that mistake would be important given your background.

DaoScience · 2022-06-18T22:49:05+00:00

I have met several men who where shamed by their mothers for their masculinity when growing up. Not just the mothers conveying negative attitudes towards men in general but the mothers specifically reacting to masculine traits in the boys and kind of trying to neuter them and feminize them so that she would feel they would be harmless. Those guys struggled a lot with the consequences of that. Robert Blys book Iron John and the book King Warrior Magician Lover (by someone else) do a pretty good job at showing how to embrace the masculine without shaming it and helping it take a mature and healthy form.

mypinksunglasses · 2022-06-19T17:48:32+00:00

Just a little update if anyone sees this and cares, I started The Myth of Male Power and I discussed some things I had learned from it with my husband - and he already knew it all and was clearly educated in these topics! I don't know why he never discussed these things with me, maybe I didn't seem like someone who would be receptive, but now that open communication is happening between us, too, which I think is going to be really good for our family.

So rest assured that even if my promises to do my best don't make you feel confident, my son does have a father in the know who will be there for him

Pasolini123 · 2022-06-18T17:32:53+00:00

David Benatar's "The Second Sexism" is quite good.

You can also read some of feminist books, which criticised feminist misandry and wanted to include men in their discourse. Books from authors like Elisabeth Badinter, bell hooks or Liz Plank. I don't remember the titles, but you'll easily find them.

I have to say quite frankly, I appreciate them being empathetic towards dudes, but these books aren't flawless. At least in my opinion. I agree with some of the ideas, but disagree with much of what the authors think as well. Though maybe it could be the right first step for you to read the books, which represent a "female perspective", but one, which is empathetic towards men and wants to understand them and their problems.

IAintDeceasedYet · 2022-06-18T22:08:51+00:00

Just jumping in to add that if you aren't already in therapy, I would highly recommend it since you do have a trauma history informing your beliefs.

Reading differing views and engaging in introspection is wonderful and helpful, but with trauma you can easily find yourself completely intellectually aware of the truth but at the same time completely unable to truly believe it/act accordingly because of entrenched trauma responses.

It's no weakness to seek help, and your son will benefit as much as you do from you having that support as you navigate your beliefs and fears.

omegaphallic · 2022-06-19T09:13:51+00:00

The men who abused you likely were victims of abuse themselves, and maybe had addictions issues.

If you treat your child with love and kindness (and don't dump all responsiblity of every bad thing a man has every done on his tiny shoulders), then you should be fine. Also keep him away from ADDICTIONS, addiction can make good people crueler and more violent and dishonest.

Talik1978 · 2022-06-19T05:00:56+00:00

So, this might be a very strange post and if it is inappropriate please tell me. I had an abusive father and grandfathers and this was followed, you know, in the all too cliche way by some abusive partners. The abuse I experienced was verbal, physical, emotional, psychological, and sexual. I retreated largely from the world and eventually found myself in radical feminist circles and, well, let me add some more context and I'll finish this thought.

I feel this. I heard a saying a while back. Hurt people hurt people. Oftentimes, many (most) movements based on resentment or its stronger cousin hate are rooted in personal pain. It doesn't need to be my lover, my parent, my friend if it's all men (or for that matter, all women). It gives a place for the anger and the hate to go, and that's a tempting opportunity. Ultimately, it doesn't resolve the trauma, though... it just displaces it. I am really glad that you're finding your way past this... for your growth, for your son's future, and for a better future for all of us.

I believe, and I am sorry and this is embarrassing for me to admit and I feel quite vulnerable, but I believe through this journey I have become somewhat misandrist.

If you're afraid for what your beliefs mean for a boy you unconditionally love, you're probably right. And that acknowledgement is a great thing. Not that it's true, of course, but because you're taking a critical look at your beliefs and re-examining their validity.

I have never found resources outside of the right wing MRA, who just seemed to further cement my distaste for men, and this is my first time finding somewhere that I feel like I can finally find out the other side and unlearn some of what I have been taught.

If I could offer a bit of gentle advice? Most of those MRA's are hurt people too. It doesn't make toxic or misogynistic beliefs ok, true... but major life events that trigger a crisis of conscience aren't everyday things.

Hate has no place in the fight for a more empathetic society. Thanks for joining the fight. The literature I would suggest has already been mentioned already, but I wanted to take the time to encourage you, and to let you know that your message is encouraging to me.

redgarnetamaranth · 2022-06-19T06:34:30+00:00

If I hadn't been abused by women in my life I might still be a feminist, who knows. I've also been abused by men and I guess that's kind of kept me from going to the weird side I guess? I'm not really worried about society addressing male abusers though. If I'm gonna be completely honest with you, you should be extremely worried, because it's not looking good.

There's a pretty substantial effort to deny just about all problems men face. There are no substantive efforts to address them by anyone else, but particularly by feminism. Instead there's a quite effective effort to deny conceal and distort their issues on an institutional level. I don't shy away from addressing feminism's wrap sheet as they have a lot to answer for.

With all that being said, there's definitely no way the comments in this post alone will address everything but I guess a good place to start since I haven't seen anyone link it yet is the reference book of men's issues.

https://www.reddit.com/r/rbomi/wiki/main

The Empathy Gap by William Collins is a good book if you can get your hands on it.

and the movie The Red Pill by Cassie Jaye. It's sort of educative I guess but not really in depth since Cassie was a feminist at the start of her filming, so the movie was more geared towards putting the issues in the spotlight. It's definitely a great movie though.

Is_This_Safe_To_Eat · 2022-06-18T20:56:10+00:00

As a dad of a six year old boy, having a child made me radically reevaluate my world view too. I was a fundamentalist Christian missionary at the time and holding my baby made me really start to question the beliefs I had always accepted uncritically. Though very different in nature, my religious upbringing left me with significant trauma. I can empathize.

For me I’ve found that practicing intentional gentle self talk helps. Be patient with yourself. You’re going to make mistakes along the way. Be patient with yourself and as he becomes old enough to understand, admit to your son when you make a mistake and apologize to him. Explain your mistakes, explain your plan to do better and just love your boy for who he is and show him the kind of person you want him to be by being that parent you wish you had.

I’ve found that doing meditation sessions where I visualize where my adult self spends time with my child self, comforting them and being with them in their pain, explaining how you’re here now to care for them and keep them safe, made a big difference in how I approach my son when he needs the kind of parenting that I didn’t have.

And finally, if you haven’t, try to find a therapist that can help you unpack all of this. Recovering from trauma and unlearning maladaptive coping mechanisms is HARD work. It’s not fun. But it’s immensely rewarding and absolutely worth it.

hugs You’re already doing great, just keep pulling at the threads you’re already doing so and follow them wherever they take you.

oncothrow · 2022-06-18T21:26:42+00:00

I'm going to make a recommendation that's not to do with MRA (or feminist) talking points, but I've found the blog "parenting science" incredibly informative.

https://parentingscience.com/

It is as it says, about the science of development. One great thing about this site is that it devotes a lot of time to the emotional wellbeing of your child, which I feel is an MRA talking point when it comes to boys. Like just under the "Growing Up" section they've got the titles like: Defiance & aggression, Empathy, Friendship, Honesty, Self-control, Social skills, Why kids rebel

Then they cover stuff like sleep, physical wellbeing etc. They always try and tie it back to the research, and it's written well and understandable. I highly recommend it.

vegano-aureo · 2022-06-20T04:52:47+00:00

One of the best approaches you can take is that of Daryl Davis. He is a black man who attends KKK rallies. He talks to these people and in getting to know him they stop being racist. He always said " you don't hate me. You hate an idea of me in your head but when we connect you realize we are not so different." The minute people see themselves in him the prejudices melt away.

Your capacity for empathy is your mightiest tool for that. Seek out Men who have experienced trauma. Particularly by women because it could challenge your experience. Seek out Men who have a lot in common with you and imagine what it would be like to have been raised as a man and be faced with their sets of problems. I am certain that the more you can see yourself in men the more you will be free of your current conditioning.

TheFishOwnsYou · 2022-06-19T15:36:34+00:00

I just want to say I think you are great to be vulnerable and ask something like this to us. So you already have a leg up im co.parison to most people, cause you selfreflect.

Ferbuggity · 2022-07-10T00:35:16+00:00

The best thing you can do, outside of providing great routine maintenance, is not project your own stuff onto your child as best you can, nor attempt to mold him according to all the "shoulds" of yourself or other people. Just allow him the space to be himself within a set of firm, sensible boundaries.

Just the fact you're concerned about this means you're conscientious, so that's like, 9/10ths the battle. Let your little boy be whatever kind of boy he wants to be on any given day, kids change like the wind.

Now, my more personal opinion is, "just let your boy be a boy!" He's not a little girl, and oughtn't be molded to be anything like one. If he doesn't prefer to be masculine, let him just lead his own path which might meander widely up to and including into adulthood. Understanding what masculinity is in a broader sense than your own experience will really help.

And don't treat him as a tool through which to work out your own feelings about masculinity. Find a good therapist who isn't a feminist, yes it's okay to ask. Find ways to think positively about masculinity. It's in reality not the by-default source of all toxicity that feminists want it to be,

JustSomeOne2100 · 2022-06-18T20:48:19+00:00

Check out this https://www.boysalive.com/on-boys-podcast

It is run by two women and is very fair and balanced.

MachoManShark · 2022-06-18T21:20:30+00:00

hey, i don't really have any good answers to you question, but i feel like i should let you know that prior victimization actually changes the way a person walks and abusers are able to pick up on this.

no concrete advice here, just be careful. your past experiences do unfortunately make you a target.

i also have some experience with abuse and it is really terrible. i hope you do ok in the future.

DaoScience · 2022-06-18T23:05:07+00:00

I find these are good resources for the gender political side of this:

https://becauseits2015.wordpress.com

https://www.feministcritics.org/blog/

You may also find the subreddit femradebates useful

ChimpPimp20 · 2022-06-19T22:50:37+00:00

Honestly, Aba and Preach and Destiny can be good alternatives. Aba and Preach mainly talk about men’s issues but can also talk about women’s sometimes (especially black women). They are both black men who reside in Canada one of them being a second generation Ethiopian immigrant. They can be kinda petty sometimes but I’ve never had any red pill Nam flashbacks from them.

I like Destiny because he talks about the nuance of gender issues entirely. He also goes into other subjects like climate and gun control. Both Destiny and Aba have had discussions on stream and seem to get along very well. They are both my favorites when it comes to this stuff. My only issue is that Destiny can kind of be an asshole at times but he seems to have mellowed out the past few years.

wazzup987 · 2022-06-21T01:53:40+00:00

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1538933684153327619.html

Blauwpetje · 2022-06-22T17:49:09+00:00

Sons of Feminism, edited by Janice Fiamengo. Who’s afraid of Charles Darwin by Griet Vandermassen. Videos by Factual Feminist and Prim Reaper. Articles by Cathy Young and Katie Roiphe. Loads of articles and videos linked on this sub, scroll through this goldmine!

RhinoNomad · 2022-06-19T00:23:06+00:00

Hmmm, I'm absolutely joyful that you have decided to take a step in the right direction especially when it comes to raising a boy.

I think a huge part of this process in understanding and socializing your son healthily is finding healthy and productive male spaces that can challenge and encourage him. One of the first things that comes to mind is a sports club/community. That helped me a lot as a kid as I was surrounded by men who became life-time role models for me. If he's not really into sports, or doesn't seem to gel well with that community, perhaps find a community of men who do something that he shows interest in (reading, scripting, coding, dancing, chess etc).

This is so so important as I think a lot of boys growing up today struggle to find community, especially well into their teen years. This type of emotional, physical and mental isolation can lead to really problematic spaces during those formative years and he can end up learning really problematic expectations about masculinity.

Good luck and I'm really happy that you're taking the steps to unlearn some misandry you might have picked up because of trauma.

WhenIsItOkayToHate · 2022-06-28T09:01:09+00:00

The fact that you are self-aware of your own trauma informed biases in this matter is both incredible, and reassuring. That you have asked the question indicates to me that you will be a wonderful mother. Thank you for asking, you have given me reason not to be so pessimistic about the hope for the younger generations of boys. Your son is incredibly impressionable, if you treat him like a monster, he will conform to that expectation, if you treat him like someone with positive potential in his becoming a man, he will conform to that expectation. I would recommend checking out a few podcasts, these are great resources for any prospective parent of future men:

- https://open.spotify.com/episode/0Eacu4c1z27UoGfdXEWp90?si=f04587c7c018416b
- https://open.spotify.com/show/30BVQx4ZRNL094mNtertIF?si=3e2615a670484894

I wish you all the best, I'm sure you'll be an excellent mother!

Peptocoptr · 2022-06-19T03:17:15+00:00

I believe someone already linked his instagram account, but TheTinMen rules. https://www.reddit.com/u/TheTinMenBlog?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

I'm terribly sorry for what you went through and I wish you all the best. Your strenght and open-mindedness are admirable and this post makes me optimistic that your son will turn out great because of it. Thanks for giving me hope that the next generation of boys might grow up in a world that truly understands ans cares for them.

mypinksunglasses · 2022-06-18T21:15:02+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Comments