A great Quora answer, which perfectly explains why MRAs and feminists oppose each other so much.

Preumd · 2018-06-12T15:46:12+00:00

There are much larger problems at play (a) Feminism (patriarchy theory) is misandric at its core (b) as Karen Straughan has noted, no "solutions" can come from feminism since they misdiagnosed the problem (c) Feminism is a multi-billion dollar industry. People's jobs are at stake (d) hypocrisy is the bread and butter of feminism. You can't expect a movement to be consistent when it's rooted in emotion rather than logic.

Given the above it's hardly surprising they fail miserably to address men's issues in a helpful way.

The only way feminists will help men is when they are socially shamed into doing so. They have no interest (or even conception) of justice and fair play, let alone empathy for men and boys.

WRA's are fine. I'm a WRA. But feminists are gonna have to abandon the "patriarchy" nonsense and admit that a lot of their core theories don't stand to scrutiny and are in fact counter-predictive. It sucks, no one likes admitting they were wrong, especially if they've wasted years on some ideology, but if ex-cult members can do it then so can they.

Juan_Golt · 2018-06-12T17:25:57+00:00

The only thing missing is a discussion about the flawed ideas and rationalization that binds the various groups of feminists together. I would argue that there are very few T1 feminists. I've met a few who act like they are T1, but are actually T3. Most don't need much convincing to follow the policy recommendations of a T2. Pretty much any rationalization or flawed stat will be enough of a pretext.

Try to discuss something like parenting equality, and feminists will come out of the woodwork talking about how it's "actually patriarchy" that makes the family courts sexist. Feminists advocated for the tender years doctrine, and defended it until it was challenged under the equal protection clause. Even today any state that attempts to pass a shared parenting presumption will face stiff opposition from feminist groups like NOW and the AAUW. How can something be simultaneously the fault of the patriarchy, and actively supported by feminists for decades?

Similar situation with domestic violence. It's not toxic masculinity that arrests male dv victims, it is prosecution and police policies built around the duluth model.

It's not enough to say that feminists aren't tackling men's issues while also shutting down men's groups. You must acknowledge that some men's issues are the direct result of the overreach of feminist policies.

DreMin015 · 2018-06-12T18:41:09+00:00

I’m gonna go post this over on r/feminism and see if it gets taken down. I’ll add a link to it as soon as I post it.

Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Feminism/comments/8qlglt/a_great_quora_answer_that_explains_why_mras_and/?st=JIC1AAVW&sh=8605fda6

Edit 2: got banned from r/feminism Welp. Guess they don’t care about logic after all.

SpareAnimalParts · 2018-06-12T16:27:11+00:00

This might be the best article I've ever seen linked on this sub.

EricAllonde · 2018-06-12T14:51:30+00:00

That is a very good answer. Thanks for linking it, OP.

thrway_1000 · 2018-06-12T17:54:30+00:00

Feminism is a hate movement.

Archive -- https://archive.is/SXUL0

hackableyou · 2018-06-12T15:13:54+00:00

Wow. Mic drop.

AloysiusC · 2018-06-12T21:16:14+00:00

That's a pretty clever response. I like how she explains things from both points of view.

I think she might underestimate how many feminists are type 3. In fact, I think type 1 is a subset of type 3. With very few exceptions, even the most egalitarian feminists, when pushed, will reveal a mindset of female victimhood.

Dragofireheart · 2018-06-12T17:44:37+00:00

How to Defeat MRAs

Fix men's issues.

rofl, Feminists are never gonna beat us.

ronin_in_the_wind · 2018-06-12T18:30:49+00:00

I really hope this hits the front page instead of the comics. This essay breaks down Men's Rights logically and without pointing any fingers.

I realize that many of us in this subreddit know the discriminatory nature of mainstream feminism and the negative ramifications the policies that they created have had on men. But shoving those facts into someone's face with no small amount of vitriol just serves to further justify the already negative reputation of this subreddit and fails to convince many of the underlying issues we advocate for. Responses like this however break it down very simply and encourage the reader to empathize with the plight of the average MRA. IMO, if our intent is to gain support for the cause of men's rights then this is the direction we should go.

ARedditUser_444 · 2018-06-12T15:36:03+00:00

How can we defeat activists for men's rights?

That's the title.

MenDeserveRights · 2018-06-12T18:24:54+00:00

I like Lauren Campbell's answers.

Lethn · 2018-06-13T00:12:13+00:00

What's particularly good about this post is it goes into the two-faced nature of feminists that I have particularly come to hate lately. As the person here is saying very well. They flip to equality when it suits them and this is something I experience on a regular bases when the 'NotRealFeminists' types come along to lecture me for pointing out how wrong these people are.

They claim to care about equality when it suits them, they won't ever confront the feminists that I have a problem with and that regularly try to attack me and many others on this sub and elsewhere. They just want to shut us all up and act like we're just evil anti-women misogynists even though most of the time we're just criticising feminism.

The_Best_01 · 2018-06-13T00:23:38+00:00

"We had thousands of years of common men's lives being sacrificed for women's and the state's lives. We had thousands of years of common men building and maintaining all upon the earth, so that women and elite men could live lives untarnished. At every turn, common men were given the more suffering filled role, so that women and her state pimp might escape common men's fate. We called this 'female oppression'...not for lack of a sense of humor."

Razorbladekandyfan · 2018-06-12T19:27:52+00:00

"How can we defeat"? Why would you want to defeat human rights activists?

cringworthycomment · 2018-06-12T20:15:58+00:00

There were on to something, but then the glaring misunderstanding of what The Rep Pill is, and MGTOW is, and to much chagrin, as many in this sub as well, paint it as anti-female, and it's not, it's entirely pro-male. But you know, it's the same thing as people who are Prideful of being white, but are in no way racist, and are still painted racists, all the while other races have pride groups, and are not racist. I irony for men to have their issues, and to have their pride, is that they do it at the expense of others, this is the claim of those who are truly misandrist.

perplexedm · 2018-06-12T20:16:36+00:00

Gives a notion that MRAs are an issue to be tackled, when feminism is just a feature which is expected part of society for ever.

Kinbaku_enthusiast · 2018-06-12T21:52:24+00:00

The secret is all feminists are #3

fonduman · 2018-06-13T11:21:38+00:00

She's about 70% of the way to real understanding, but she's still got some big gaps going on.

HCEandALP4ever · 2018-06-13T13:19:05+00:00

It's a good answer. However, she did overlook (or omit) some crucial points. Others here have indicated some of them. Here's one I noticed. Campbell takes an aerial view, and shows the NAFALT landscape. But one big problem with the NAFALT defense isn't that it's wrong. It's that it's a defensive position used to silence critics. MRAs don't need to hear "Those other feminists are wrong." Instead, it's those other feminists who need to hear "Hey, you're wrong! And you're hurting men! Stop it!" They need to hear that, and they need to hear it from their sister feminists.

genkernels · 2018-06-12T18:34:36+00:00

Terrible answer to the question of why they oppose each other. It might be a reasonable answer as to why defeating MRA's won't be possible without a significant change of approach. And it is a diplomatic and convincing response to the question actually asked. But as to the question of why they oppose each other, its a terrible answer.

The answer legitimizes patriarchy theory.
It defends the bullying behavior of type 1 feminists by arguing that if they were just consistent about it they would be right in insisting that men not organize for equality separate from feminism.
It pretends that feminism's gender supremacist approach to gender inequality -- and by extension the approach to gender equality of society and of some laws -- isn't itself a men's issue. Although the author clearly is aware of the problem, since the author cites equality legislation (opposed by feminists), and at one point goes so far as to say "If you try to attack the rights of men"

The reasons why MRA's and feminists oppose each other are perhaps not single, but if they were one answer would be the feminist diagnosis of and goals for the problem: patriarchy theory. A second answer is that feminism is not and has never been an equality movement and their (mis)diagnosis of the problem stems from this reality. The answer simply does not address this.

LedZeppelin1602 · 2018-06-12T22:10:38+00:00

That question is so bigoted and anti-equality and yet the asker probably wonders why MRA exists.

This was a good answer. The only problem is it's too generous to feminists. She doesn't mention the third example after classifying it and that's unfiryptubateky the example I tend to see most of with #1 being the rarest

coolrulez555 · 2018-06-12T23:25:23+00:00

How the fuck is he with HuffPo

TheDongerNeedsFood · 2018-06-12T23:45:55+00:00

That was pretty fucking good.

redditicantrecall · 2018-06-13T01:27:49+00:00

I think she wrote a good answer.

hottake_toothache · 2018-06-13T01:44:44+00:00

Nice answer. Her credits says she has at some point written for Huffpo (though a quick Google search of mine didn't turn anything up). I doubt she is writing for them much these days.

ArchetypalSage7 · 2018-06-13T06:46:25+00:00

Question came from a Huffington Post writer. Imagine my shock when I saw that.

tetsugakusei · 2018-06-14T03:41:50+00:00

One further point, the Feminist Position that all men's attempts of raising male issues are attempts at derailments is the standard position in academic journals. Feminist papers took it as read that the male efforts were in bad faith.

This isn't going to change soon. Just as it is very difficult to alter other feminist early axioms such as their chronic fear of generalizations.

ReasonItOut · 2018-06-15T12:23:30+00:00

Feminism is an ideological hate movement and MRAs oppose them strictly because of that.

UNLIKELYME · 2018-06-12T17:43:42+00:00

The Quora OP seems to think that patriarchy is an essential part of the society and not a fringe theory based on misunderstandings and hate.

I stopped reading after that became clear.

Drippyskippy · 2018-06-14T02:14:47+00:00

This is a very solid answer that describes more moderate feminist types. It doesn't even highlight more extreme feminism viewpoints and paints a very good picture of the problems that exist between the groups. I wonder how quickly someone would get banned on the feminism sub if they posted a link of this there.

The_Best_01 · 2018-06-14T02:03:46+00:00

Great answer, if still a bit lacking.

svenskbitch · 2018-06-14T16:01:18+00:00

I cannot think of a single among the top 20 MRA concerns where action would negatively affect women. Except perhaps for opposing gender quotas on company boards, but to my mind, MRA should not pay much attention to the fates of people who are already some of the most successful and privileged in the world: men and women with the education, network, and skills to qualify for such positions.

Think about it. Closing the education gender gap? Our economies urgently need more and better skills in the work force to be able to grow and spread the wealth. Caring for male victims of domestic violence? Less men who endure abuse and finally lose their inhibitions and resort to serious violence in frustration. Male suicide? Less women who lose their loved ones. Less vilification of men in media? Less women who get stuck in a man-hating thought circle that frustrates and demotivates them and leaves them filled with constant anger. More rights for fathers and paternal leave? More room for their wives to pursue their own careers. Fairer child support? More men that will actually pay their dues.

Please help me here. Why should we be at odds in the first place? Why do we think of this as a competition?

DavidByron2 · 2018-06-15T06:11:22+00:00

Great answer?

Muddled justification for bigotry you mean?

Author pretends to be for equality but their topic is how to tear down a human rights movement. They even admit the MRA are for human rights in the body of the article where they ask how to eliminate the movement.

Phuxxi · 2018-06-13T00:11:13+00:00

Women tend to be deeply neurotic. 2. The live in fictional fantasy worlds of made up facts from the feminist echo chamber. 3. They do NO fact checking. 4. People are progressively getting more and more tired and intolerant of being fed their shit - by a media that constantly plays up to the biggest spectacles, and the most sensationalist hypocracy, and then to market it as attention grabbing drama, by calling 10 psychotic bitches and their bullshit as "a wave of feminist enlightenment that is sweeping the country". 5. Lots and lots and lots of people are just fed up with the feminists and the scum in the media polarising and politicizing all the crap they can for revenue - and they just don't bother turning on and tuning in any more. 6. These days if some feminist academic scum gets their "NON fact checked" articles published in some pro-femenist website, I just unsubscribe from that website - I tell them why first but - and then I "UNSUBSCRIBE". 7. Spending my time on things that get results is generally more productive that spending my time on denouncing the rantings of toxic arseholes. If you leave them alone - they generally all start knifing each other.

JackPete5220 · 2018-06-12T17:38:49+00:00

Occupation: Huffpost writer. That explains a lot why she asked that question.

Title	A great Quora answer, which perfectly explains why MRAs and feminists oppose each other so much.
Author	ARedditUser_444
Upvotes	477
Comments	111
Date	June 12, 2018 2:38 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/8qjfir/a_great_quora_answer_which_perfectly_explains_why/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/a-great-quora-answer-which-perfectly-explains-why.899734 https://theredarchive.com/post/899734

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