Masculinity is considered evil until butch lesbians try to emulate it

MechPlasma · 2013-05-20T13:02:24+00:00

I swear, this article is 50% buzzwords! I mean, the message aside, it's utterly hilarious how badly written this article is. I'm doing a PhD and I still think this article is too hard to read!

I'm going to quote some key parts and try to simplify them without losing their meaning whatsoever.

Many derided the group for elevating traditional masculine traits and thus perpetuating misogyny among gay men, but as a queer woman, I see that this form of masculine privilege doesn't just operate in the gay community.

...I think she means "A lot of people fear that encouraging masculine traits also encourages sexism, but as a queer woman, I don't think this is true for the gay community".

There, many lesbians appropriate fratty personas,

"There, many lesbians act like stereotypical men".

gender contiuum

Umm... "all genders".

Party culture itself shouldn't be conflated with misogyny

...I dunno what party culture is.

spate

That's a word? Oh, apparently it means "a sudden increase"

hierarchy, hegemony

Discrimination. She uses it to mean discrimination.

commodification of feminine bodies that happens in the bro-y conduct

This is just getting out of hand now. She sure isn't talking about actual monetary value here.

all identities are faced with different modes of oppression

I think she's starting making up her own definitions now.

I look normative

"I look normal". She's one step away from saying 'utilise' instead of 'use'.

high femme

I don't know.

"Choosing masculinity to be cool is privilege"

Apparently privilege can mean literally anything now. I just lost a bet.

That alone is a form of social currency wherein femininity becomes lesser by virtue of what it is not.

"Femininity isn't as popular."

Tgryphon · 2013-05-20T16:36:53+00:00

Im getting really fucking tired of hearing the word "privilege".

EinsteinRidesShotgun · 2013-05-20T15:49:13+00:00

Actually, the author still considers masculinity wrong when butch lesbians emulate it.

PowerWisdomCourage · 2013-05-20T12:59:03+00:00

"Privilege." She keeps using that word but apparently needs a dictionary.

DubiumGuy · 2013-05-20T14:37:51+00:00

Feminity! YAY AND HUGS!

Masculinity! EVIL INCARNATE!

:/

IHaveALargePenis · 2013-05-20T16:22:32+00:00

Misogyny, misogyny, misogyny! Everything's misogyny! Misogyny everywhere!

Seriously, I don't think that word means what they think it means.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2013-05-20T22:23:36+00:00

Many derided the group for elevating traditional masculine traits and thus perpetuating misogyny among gay men

Simply acting male is now blatant misogyny.

Tell me again how feminism is helping men?

Viking83 · 2013-05-20T19:24:12+00:00

Masculine gay man here.

I don't understand lesbians. I like my men masculine because I'm gay and I like men. If I were into women, I'd date women. So the same goes for overly feminine gay boys.

But lesbians? They flock around the butch ladies like moths to a flame. How does that work?

scramtek · 2013-05-20T19:52:28+00:00

Or, as Bill Burr so succinctly put it, there are no feminists in a house fire.

TracyMorganFreeman · 2013-05-20T20:32:17+00:00

TL;DR: "We can totally get male privilege from masculinity but still are oppressed for being women and gay".

I think this raises questions about the usefulness of the definitions of those terms.

Strange_Dragons · 2013-05-20T16:28:36+00:00

yet I find it impossible not to call this display objectification, even though it's at the hands of other women.

"And to me that's a problem, because when it's a man, we think of it as sexism,"

From "no femme pillow queens" disclaimers on dating profiles to a series of tweets calling for loyal femme partners over "bitches," these statements are, at best, veiled misogyny, hatred of anything feminine packaged as the desire for someone with a "more" radical queer identity in a poorly worded dating advertisement ... That's in the commodification of feminine bodies that happens in the bro-y conduct," Severance said.

I've brought my own "male gaze" to parties with go-go dancers, I sometimes have "bro-time" with certain queer female friends (no girlfriends allowed), and I've certainly described women's bodies in a manner of speech that I learned from my straight male friends, mostly because I thought it was the cool thing to do.

Coolness, of course, is at the heart of lezbro-ness, because masculinity itself is considered cool outside and inside the LGBTQ community: "Choosing masculinity to be cool is privilege," Johnson said. Thus, when someone is masculine in certain contexts, they reap the benefits of such a value.

What

tarfogog · 2013-05-20T20:59:55+00:00

I'm willing to bet if you took the majority of these gender warrior feminists and put them in sensory deprivation tanks they would still find some supposed injustice to bitch about.

dmead · 2013-05-20T15:51:52+00:00

i hate the internet sometimes

Doctor_Loggins · 2013-05-20T16:52:54+00:00

Couldn't read any further after the author gave the lesbians a pass when it came to misogyny and objectification.

Sarstan · 2013-05-20T17:49:50+00:00

Can we just have a rule that we no longer pull "articles" from Huffington Post. I've yet to see anything from them that actually would be considered reasonable news.

IMdub · 2013-05-20T18:28:27+00:00

Every time Huffington Post tries to force content out of /r/gaybros.

ENTP · 2013-05-20T20:15:17+00:00

Tl;dr

Men bad women good. Being like man bad too.

ElfmanLV · 2013-05-20T21:50:52+00:00

Is feminism all about buzz words and shock value now? What happened to tangible issues, really? I can barely read half of this and thus can barely care about what it has to say. All it seems like is someone trying to win an essay contest.

giegerwasright · 2013-05-21T03:51:24+00:00

It just goes to show you that the hatred that they have of men goes even deeper then socially proscribed gender identity. It literally goes to our genetics. It literally permeates our physiology. That is why they hate us. That is how deeply that hate runs. That's the kind of hate that comes from being fed a widely accepted and socially applauded justifcation for villifying half the population.

Greyfeld · 2013-05-21T07:32:50+00:00

I've always had the sneaking suspicion that these specific type of lesbian women overcompensate by acting like complete dickweeds, because they don't have the personal life experience of living like men, but feel the pressure to act like men in order to fill a specific gender role.

It's kinda like learning to sing by listening to other people sing, then trying to figure out why your croaking approximation of singing doesn't sound the same when you finally try it for yourself.

That little tidbit of contemplation aside, you have to admire the author's dedication to demonizing masculinity. Never once does she actually question what it is or consists of, she just says "TRADITIONAL MASCULINITY!!" then launches into a diatribe about aggression, abuse, objectivity, and general asshole-ish behavior.

Kinda makes me wonder if she's one of these "political lesbians" I've been hearing about lately.

tallwheel · 2013-05-21T02:47:59+00:00

So all a woman has to do to gain privilege is start acting masculine? What is privilege, anyway? Being able to objectify women's bodies? Is it not also privilege, then, when someone objectifies a man for his provider/protector qualities? This bastardized definition of privilege has just gotten way out of hand.

evilbrent · 2013-05-21T09:06:18+00:00

I got as far as reading "elevating traditional masculine traits and thus perpetuating misogyny" and had to stop. I couldn't even read through the first sentence without reading something filthy and slanderous.

Bag_of_Ducks · 2013-05-20T16:08:16+00:00

Oh look, it's this thread again. This isn't really news you guys. We all know that the lesbians who write for the Huffington Post are anti-male and get lots leeway to blab about their ideas on that "news site." For the most part this article barely even mentions men except to call gay men misogynist (hilarious since I understand misogyny to mean the sexual objectification of women, but that's beside the point) at the very beginning. This has nothing to do with men's rights, it's just a bigoted woman raving about whatever. She's making herself look bad and by putting her article in this context, we're getting mud on our faces by association.

I'm ready for the dowvotes, but the fact that this is the frontpage today really shows that you lot'll get mad about any little thing. There's much bigger issues out there than one niche opinion columnist making a fool out of themselves. Who cares what she thinks? The answer should be "nobody" because she is a nobody.

squigglesthepig · 2013-05-20T13:43:32+00:00

Did you even read the article? It's very specifically about how the deployment of masculinity by butch lesbians can be just as sexist as among men. Furthermore, it doesn't make the claim that masculinity itself is evil, just that certain aspects may be bad.

Title	Masculinity is considered evil until butch lesbians try to emulate it
Author	CrossHook
Upvotes	345
Comments	112
Date	May 20, 2013 12:20 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/1eou67/masculinity-is-considered-evil-until-butch-/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/masculinity-is-considered-evil-until-butch.1613010 https://theredarchive.com/post/1613010

Comments