Prosecuting rape liars 'violates human rights,' and rape victims' advocates want it to stop

fireinthedarkness · 2014-12-02T14:19:29+00:00

This is so sad... I don't think they get it. How is punishing wrong doers stopping ppl from coming out about ut being raped. How? I get if they punished them based on barely anything, but thats not how it works. It was proven they lied so they get punished. Real victims wont get punished or it is really unlikely because there is nothing that says they lied. It is that simple. You lie and ruin somebodys life you get what you deserved.

Ghee_Buttersnaps_ · 2014-12-02T14:57:49+00:00

Lying for the sole purpose of getting someone put in jail for YEARS is a human right? What the fuck? What has this world come to?

redpillbanana · 2014-12-02T14:28:29+00:00

Feminists seem to think that perjury is not a big deal when it comes to rape accusations. I wonder how they would feel if a woman had her life ruined by a false rape accusation?

What is worse, assaulting someone yourself, or using deception to get the power of the state to assault someone?

pm-me-yo-booty · 2014-12-02T14:22:28+00:00

Jesus... Where will this end? How blind are people to allow this stupidity to go on? From writing the article to actually thinking that way? What's next, women don't have to go to jail anymore because it's Tuesday?

boredgenius · 2014-12-02T15:46:26+00:00

Wow. Just....wow. A false accusation has the potential to ruins someone's life and we should just let it slide? Because? The victim's human rights are what we need to be concerned with here, not the criminal who falsely accuses someone of a crime.

There is no logic, legal or otherwise to this idiocy.

misterwings · 2014-12-02T15:14:56+00:00

It isn't like falsely accusing someone is a violation of their rights, I guess men don't count as human then.

blamb211 · 2014-12-02T16:09:53+00:00

A) False rape accusers are pursued aggressively? Yeah, I'll believe that when I fucking see it.

B) These people are ruining other people's lives with three little words, and you're defending them? Fuck me sideways.

AtomicBLB · 2014-12-02T17:50:29+00:00

Yes because letting someone rot in jail for a crime they didn't commit doesn't violate human rights at all.

kmaster2520 · 2014-12-02T16:58:53+00:00

Feminism in action.

McFeely_Smackup · 2014-12-02T20:19:19+00:00

see, the thing is if you prosecute women for lying about rape, then women who are actually raped will be reluctant to file charges out of fear then will end up prosecuted themselves if it can't be proven.

This is why many people don't report robberies, home break ins, muggings, assaults, and most other crimes.

wait, no they don't.

jrdnsln · 2014-12-02T19:51:35+00:00

The punishment for making a false rape allegation should be exactly the same, if not more severe than the punishment for an actual rape. My reasoning is that a false allegation is still technically a rape. You see, the accuser is using sex as a means to pervert justice. A physical rape violates an individual and the state comes in and punishes the offender. A false allegation is an attempt to violate the state and very well violate the individual being accused-reputation, legal fees, distress, etc.

Therefore, anyone, male or female or transgender, who attempts to selfishly disrupt another life and society at large with a false rape allegation should be imprisoned for years and be registered as a sex offender.

tallwheel · 2014-12-03T01:41:00+00:00

If you were actually raped, it's going to be damn hard for anyone to find evidence that you made the whole thing up (because you didn't). These people seem to think that every rapist who isn't found guilty is going to have their accuser (a genuine rape victim) locked up because they failed to get their rapist convicted.

shazbottled · 2014-12-02T20:56:05+00:00

It is indefensible to argue that false rape accusers should be given a free pass. Anybody who makes this claim has clearly jumped the shark

levelate · 2014-12-02T22:05:42+00:00

when men lie, it is rape, according to feminists.

when women lie about rape, it is no big deal, according to feminists.

uberpower · 2014-12-02T23:07:38+00:00

Dear young fellas: You're gonna have to audiovisually record expressed unquestionable consent given at the same time as drug & alcohol tests are administered by a licensed physician and a contract is signed in the presence of the potential victim's lawyer, the entire event notarized and witnessed by two sober female adult acquaintances of the potential victim, all before you can go to second base.

And it will still be questioned in court. And you will still be expelled from school . . . if these advocates have their way.

knighter420 · 2014-12-02T16:41:41+00:00

they should be prosecuted just as harshly as the rape itself

Raudskeggr · 2014-12-02T18:05:53+00:00

False accusers are hardly punished already. There have to be some consequences for making false claims that could land someone in prison. This is very reasonable. But these radical groups are not really about reason.

Pathosphere · 2014-12-02T18:39:44+00:00

Shit like this makes me just want to fuckin kill myself. I cannot see a positive way to fight for my rights as a person without losing. This is such a depressing time to live. With science at its highest, medical advances abound, life is too easy so people have to fill in the blanks to figure out why they are upset. I think it is really just the human condition to be malcontent, so when I see people prosecuting others or even entire demographics, I think they are not that smart, not at all introspective.

AshRandom · 2014-12-02T20:38:49+00:00

The willingness to ignore injustice is an attitude held only by oppressors.

Godspiral · 2014-12-02T18:25:40+00:00

Berkowitz says, we also must 'educate victims on the importance of reporting.'"

This is saying that women are too stupid and worthless to have their own opinions on whether they should make a rape accusation. They must be pressured into doing so.

Why invalidate reasons for not reporting, instead of supporting RAINN's corrupt agenda?

WadeWi1son · 2014-12-02T18:46:43+00:00

I call bullshit, why would actual rape victims protect lairs? I was molested as a child, I would never advocate for protecting people who made false claims about being raped.

ImLivingLikeLarry · 2014-12-02T20:37:24+00:00

This really infuriates me. Why wouldn't they get punished? You are trying to put someone behind bars for your personal benefit! I'm pretty sure we can agree that is logically and morally wrong! Well, apparently the prosecutors have a different set of morals than the rest of the modern world.

iMADEthis2post · 2014-12-03T00:13:26+00:00

Not only should they be punished they should be punished with the same severity as actual rape trials.

When I hear them come out with this shit all I think is "You have done this." The people coming out with these things seem to be the most likely types to do these crimes.

Sks44 · 2014-12-02T20:38:48+00:00

"We are for equal rights...some are just more equal than others."

BrianPurkiss · 2014-12-02T20:39:11+00:00

So it's someone's human right to lie under oath and send someone to jail for years based on something that didn't happen?

MidNiteR32 · 2014-12-03T01:08:27+00:00

This isn't a new phenomenon among feminist. Remember this article from a month ago:

https://archive.today/X35w7

Now feminist want women to not be charge with any crime, whatsoever. Cuz obviously teh patriachies!

7hunderpants · 2014-12-02T21:07:29+00:00

I bought the Guardian just for this story...Turns out that the article is a tiny part of the whole paper.

I attached some images , If someone could explain the logic of the woman Lisa Longstaffs statement at the bottom I would appreciate it.

http://imgur.com/MKPt7WD

http://imgur.com/R5lPSYT

http://imgur.com/ZOjSvM4

http://imgur.com/0TKVEYg

ConfirmedCynic · 2014-12-02T22:02:52+00:00

If this goes through, maybe men and women should just start living apart.

blarghstar · 2014-12-02T23:19:55+00:00

Using the goverment to hold somebody imprisoned,

If the victims of such claims are not able to get any justice, they will serach self-justice. Which is im this case would be justified.

notnotnotfred · 2014-12-03T04:25:22+00:00

The police aren't putting off women from reporting, but hysterical rape victims' advocates might be. The Stern Review, at page 45, chided rape victims' advocates because they make it appear that law enforcement is terribly, and uniquely, ineffective when it comes to rape when that is not the case. It is rape victims' advocates' hysterics, the Stern Review scolded, that could discourage women from reporting their ordeals.

I'd encourage you to write a piece on this topic, to post it anew if you've already written on it. you could incorporate Edward Greer's 2% article if you really wanted.

matthewxknight · 2014-12-03T07:46:04+00:00

If someone accuses someone else of rape and is disproven, the person being accused should be able to sue for defamation of character.

Nulono · 2014-12-02T16:00:27+00:00

But… I thought false rape accusations were part of the Patriarchy? That's what the angry red lady told me…

el_chief · 2014-12-02T17:48:14+00:00

We need a plan to fight this garbage harder. We need to stop fooling around.

Doriphor · 2014-12-02T18:23:15+00:00

What happens when someone falsely accused of rape countersues for rape? (kind of a /r/showerthoughts idea)

newprofile15 · 2014-12-02T20:42:34+00:00

To be honest, I'd be pretty cautious if I was a prosecutor in this situation. I would really want to see some completely foolproof and damning evidence of the falsehood before even considering moving forward... and even then, I'd probably consider whether the accuser intended to make a false accusation or if something else was going on.

Druk0ziz · 2014-12-02T17:40:02+00:00

There's definitely a related problem where overbearing police investigations will get a false confession sometimes, but that's no reason to just start ignoring confessions completely. It's not specific to false rape accusation confessions.

TheDrunkenGhost · 2014-12-02T17:54:12+00:00

From what I can tell, Women Against Rape (War) and their supporters are making the argument that lying about rape is simply wasting police time and not perverting the course of justice.

Unfortunately they don't actually make any reasonable arguments to support this claim.

I guess it's not that unusual for people blinded by righteousness to act as though they are blind.

Electroverted · 2014-12-02T19:26:58+00:00

Someone needs to remind them what happens when you lie to the police or a court about anything, not just rape.

Stephen1985 · 2014-12-02T20:15:47+00:00

Wow we are at 90% unreported rapes now.

In all fairness the petition did not ask for Women not to be prosecuted for false rape allegations.

kazzk · 2014-12-02T22:04:19+00:00

Women Against Rape says (I guess) that the problem is that women are "forced into retracting their rape complaint by police", thereby there are less convictions in legitimate rape cases. I wonder what they claim this looks like. I'm genuinely curious. Are they saying the police are telling the people things like "there's not enough evidence, therefore you'll probably be thrown in jail for lying if you don't retract", or what?

Ryan1188 · 2014-12-02T17:39:37+00:00

What the fuck.

ianme · 2014-12-03T05:44:47+00:00

I think the issue is that if there is the possibility of being punished for coming out about rape, it may give rape victims more of a reason to not come out about it.

PeterSutcliffe · 2014-12-02T23:24:21+00:00

I think a custodial sentence is wrong. Depending on circumstances it should be a fine proportional to their gross income and a large amount of community service; Cleaning up neighbourhoods, planting flowerbeds, working in homeless shelters etc

keeb119 · 2014-12-03T00:05:19+00:00

You guys are assholes. If we lock up women for falsely accusing men of rape, first of all you cannot falsely accuse a man of rape all sexual thoughts are rape, second wholl raise the children. Since men are rapist and shouldn't be within a mile of a child, there'll be no,one to raise them.

snakelovermoraga · 2014-12-03T00:27:31+00:00

The article seems right. If the facts are as the article portrays them, then that's total bullshit.

Now, the article is completely 1 sided, poorly cites and fails to acknowledge the other side. So much so that I really don't know at all what the other side is saying. It's an opinion piece that fails to present the other opinion. Maybe it would be a good response to an article talking about the facts, but I really can't figure out what's going on here...

Tl;dr, The author may be right, but the article is very poorly written.

white_crust_delivery · 2014-12-03T01:56:48+00:00

I think you guys are making a serious mistake in advocating for liars to be harshly punished. If you do that, people who make a false accusation in the heat if the moment (not rationally thinking about consequences like jail) will be more inclined to stubbornly stick to the story instead of coming clean in a way that would actually allow someone to have charges dropped.

mechrawr · 2014-12-02T18:44:06+00:00

EDIT: To public view, to whom it may concern, the downvotes are due to the dissenting opinion, nothing factually incorrect. That's just how this sub rolls ~~evidently~~ unfortunately.

Not the exact quote by far, missing some parts like "the disproportionate media coverage" in reported cases and claims, and how the prosecution process CONTINUES to be as biased as possible against the victim. Though, I mean, twitter-length titles are sufficient, right?

... but perhaps I cannot expect a "humanist" group like r/MensRights to try to determine all of the facts when confronted with an important issue like, um, "human" rights, not when the link to the original quote is more than a page away from the OP's.

Why not use this movement to do something constructive that improves our democratic process of information sharing and debate, rather than tear down the work women and feminists had to fight for from nothing just to "even the playing field", an abstract which can vary by individual based on social and economic stand anyway?

I am a feminist. I am as I recognize that women throughout history (most notably in the past few centuries, of course) had to fight for their rights, starting from sex-object to almost-as-valuable-in-the market. I am because I know that not all women are even ON this "playing field", and many today are STILL treated as though no progress has been made. I am because I am a male, and I know that feminism is a fluid movement which seeks to benefit men as well, yet I am still perfectly content with the rationale of focusing energy on women's rights, women/feminine who die for being women/feminine.

If you believe in equality between genders but found yourself here regularly, all the power to your endeavours... just know that the MensRights movement will only ever be a small part of the battle against gendered discrimination.

Title	Prosecuting rape liars 'violates human rights,' and rape victims' advocates want it to stop
Author	PierceHarlan
Upvotes	1042
Comments	161
Date	December 2, 2014 1:30 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/2o1kvm/prosecuting-rape-liars-violates-human-rights-and-/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/prosecuting-rape-liars-violates-human-rights-and.1623503 https://theredarchive.com/post/1623503

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