Why is there such a miscommunication between men and women?

reverbiscrap · 2023-06-27T06:45:03+00:00

In my experience mentoring and some psychiatric work, the difference is in empathy and social messaging, and you really see it come to stark relief when you contrast different generations.

Dr. James Sidanious 'Social Dominance Theory' helped me to put my suspicion to actual words; when you view a group of people as a threat and danger, without being taught empathy to counterbalance the narrative, you get a lot of heartless actions. That is the basis of how genocide happened in the history of humanity. Dehumanization + contempt/lack of empathy + possible threat = kill them all before they kill us.

It hasn't gotten so extreme, but the opinions women have about men have changed very much in the last 100 years, whilst opinions men have about women haven't changed too much, with much of it coming in the last 20 years due to social media dispelling the veil. There is a lot more to go in to, I just may with another post.

As for OP, the only real way to make a change is going to come with the next generation: teach empathy for all people, and stop spreading the idea that all men are a lurking threat, unless you want people to act like they are(?). That said, I am coming with personal experience with the over the top hostility that is often part and parcel of m/f interactions; there is a big culture component with this, and I dont know if OP has the foundation to have that chat.

PlzSendDunes · 2023-06-27T07:59:08+00:00

You're trying to portray as if it's on both sides, when it's not.

Women often get away from accountability when men are held accountable even for things that they have no control over.
One woman's bad actions is not representative of the whole gender and despite that she deserves sympathy, while for one man's bad actions all men are responsible and all men are rapists/murderers and all that and all of them must be held accountable for something that they have not done.
When a woman says something atrocious, anyone criticising her is sexist. When a man says something atrocious it's open season on that man.
A woman using a man for his resources is normal and as it is supposed to be. But if a man needs resources from his woman, he is deadbeat and good for nothing loser.
A woman who has issues in finding a partner - where are all good men? Despite that her requirements for a partner often are beyond realistic. A man who has issues in finding a partner - incel, loser, threat to society.
There are barely any women who are homeless, due to massive programs to help women from all kind of organisations to provide housing. There are massive amounts of homeless men who are blamed that it's on them they have those issues and no need to support them needs to be provided, because there are some rich men and due to the fact that they have same gender, that means they deserve nothing.

There is a rule, which I was told by an elderly and still holds true. "Man will be blamed for everything". And this is the case that we have here. You are trying to equalise feminist hate speech and self victimisation with men talking about issues that they are encountering and trying to say they are the same. No, they are not.

g1455ofwater · 2023-06-27T07:10:53+00:00

When two people have conflict it doesn't necessarily mean there is equal blame. If a robber breaks into a home they can have conflict with the home owner but both parties aren't equally responsible for the conflict.

GltyUntlPrvnInncnt · 2023-06-27T12:18:38+00:00

I don't think the mistrust from our side is against women. It's against feminists. If there is a group of people that are anti-male, wouldn't mistrust be a proper reaction?

Input_output_error · 2023-06-27T08:05:11+00:00

But then I go to a women’s subreddit page and the first post I see is about a woman who was raped in the Navy by a guy also in the Navy alongside her and was never given the support in regards to dealing with her rapist or her PTSD that followed and it’s easy to understand where the woman’s frustration comes from.

It is just as obvious for men who visit a men's rights page when the first post they see is about a woman completely destroying his life. Taking their kids away from them, ruin them financially for the foreseeable future and if they're unlucky end up in jail basically for being a man. Ends up with PTSD and chances are pretty high he'd eventually won't be able to take it anymore and kills himself. And let me tell you, it is VERY easy to understand the men's frustration comes from.

The big difference between these two things is that when a woman comes here with this statement you won't get all kinds of names flung at you. However, when a man would do state something like what i said above this on any feminist sub he'd get absolutely destroyed. They'd call him an 'incel', 'insecure' or they'd go on to tell him how he 'obviously hates women'.

Another difference is that there won't be many men here claiming that women don't get raped or that it isn't a problem that a woman is raped. On the other hand i've never seen a similar reply from any female orientated sub on any of the issues men face. It's either that they flat out deny that something like that happens or they brush it off by saying that it doesn't happen enough to be a problem. If you want to know where the distrust from men comes from, well, it is exactly this.

lasciate · 2023-06-27T08:23:30+00:00

I’m a woman. I’m here cause I’ve a father, male cousins and friends and a boyfriend I care about deeply. I seek to understand and empathize with your struggles cause I know you have them.

What if it cost you something to address those struggles and the benefit went towards a man you didn't know personally?

But then I go to a women’s subreddit page and the first post I see is about a woman who was raped in the Navy by a guy also in the Navy alongside her and was never given the support in regards to dealing with her rapist or her PTSD that followed and it’s easy to understand where the woman’s frustration comes from.

That's the exact same reasoning used to justify racism. You can go on any white pride forum and read endless, harrowing tales of a savage ~~male~~ minority attacking a noble ~~female~~ white person. Plenty of them are even true. Is the white nationalist's frustration justified?

On the one hand you have the good men - those in your life who you care about - and on the other hand are the ~4 billion men you don't know who are Schrodinger's rapists (and their ~4 billion victims, of course).

But why is there this deep mistrust, this cognitive dissonance between woman and men?

Because men and women are different and even have *gasp* competing interests, at times. Instead of acknowledging and accepting these differences, separating where they are irreconcilable, and agreeing to disagree feminists seek to position women and femininity as inherently, definitively, singularly good and right and proper in all things and to forcibly keep men around solely to subsidize and grovel in turn.

Or will h the majority of the two populations continue to blame each other until the end of time?

"Let's not play the blame game" is what someone says when they want to dodge well-earned blame and maintain an unjust position. 'Truth and reconciliation' can come after mechanisms for equality are established. Otherwise you're just patting yourself on the back for paying lip service to progressive ideas.

I don't mean to be rude, but you aren't even asking the right questions which tells me you aren't ready to understand or accept the difficult answers that lie further down the road.

Confident_Trash8517 · 2023-06-27T08:30:55+00:00

you have one right in your post

you just said you seek to understand and empathize both men and women but then you say that's hard to do when you hear about a woman raped by a man and little done about it.

then why doesn't it also make it hard for you to empathize with women when you hear an example of a woman raping a man or boy ? let me guess - bc that's less common right ?

or is it? - did you know that in most countries women CANNOT legally be convicted of rape even when they do rape a man ? so there is no statistic to compare how many men rape vs how many women rape. the exact same amount of women or more women could be rapists and we wouldn't know it bc they don't call it that bc society is sexist against men bc it's gynocentric.

this is clearly the opposite of what you think bc part of that gynocentrism involves feminists playing the victim and pretending the world is out to get women when the opposite has always and probably will always be true. men have always protected women from nature, other men and even other women.

both sides don't constantly complain about that and each other to the extent we see in the west. there are still plenty of countries and cultures where men are appreciated and respected for the protection we provide. that deep mistrust and cognitive dissonance comes from feminisms brainwashing and exaggerating the opposite.

so can THAT be fixed ? it usually is as soon as a major war breaks out. there are suddenly never any feminists wanting equality in an emergency, then it's all back to traditional values of women wanting men to act manly and die to protect them and call it equality. look at Ukraine. they identify as feminist until war comes and then all the women suddenly flee their country and husband's to remarry neighboring countries or even the enemy , while their husband's are locked into the country for the draft under the threat of execution if they try to flee , forced to get their legs blown off in battle. women get to run just for being born women. but women are the oppressed ones tho right?

feminism is only for peacetime to complain and get even more of that privilege than they already have. but when the war is big enough that it's not feasible to flee safely or without starving is when women go back to traditional values - or i should just call it our natural state bc I'm not even political/conservative - and WANT the privilege of staying inside where it is safe where they can be brought food to cook by men who do all the dangerous things without risking doing dangerous things themselves, maintain the shelter (like they would do even if they were alone) and be nurturing to the wounded when they return from protecting them and bringing them the food and resources so that they can continue to fetch them food. not exactly an evil dominating patriarchy - just protecting our wives daughters and mothers.

human nature may be like that at its core eternally bc our brains stopped evolving a long time ago. idk if it will always be like that bc we're getting further away from nature. we're a funny creature us humans bc we're just dumb animals but we're self aware and continue to evolve through knowledge that is passed down from language, books and technology allowing progress to be made generation to generation even if we have physically stopped evolving. but at the individual level, now every person just tries the best we can to adapt to whatever society we find ourselves born into. so i don't have the answer of future relations between the sexes. if you really wanna make it better tho start by being genuinely unbiased and acknowledging reality as it is. if you're on this men's rights sub it would be bc you're aware that men are disenfranchised , not women. if you don't believe that then ask better questions or read through the sub.

ExMuzzy · 2023-06-27T12:41:20+00:00

You understand women’s frustrations because of the example you mentioned. You could easily apply this reasoning to men’s frustrations as well.

Rape of men, especially by women, is not taken seriously by the mainstream media, social media, the law (it’s not even recognised as rape here) and society. There is also a severe lack of services for them.

Maybe I’m wrong but I have a feeling you’re conflating feminists with women.

Whole-Wishbone-7539 · 2023-06-27T13:51:58+00:00

So this post does little to nothing to help. On the one hand you say everyone has male relatives and male friends and then you say the first post on a female subreddit is talking about rape. Clearly all of these male friends and relatives are not all rapists. The actual percentage of rapists amongst the male population is like maybe 2%. That means there is one very very very tiny subset of the male population doing 100% of the rape. How does it make sense to teach women and girls to be wary of 98% of the others. To me and the rest of the non-rapist male population it just comes across as stereotyping. Also. When you're a man it's very obvious who the rapists are. There is some sort of psychological blind spot in the female population where you just can't tell who the scumbags are

Mode1961 · 2023-06-27T16:34:52+00:00

So I saw that same post about the Navy: Did you pick up on the stats she used to 1 in 3 Navy women vs 1 in 5 Navy men: the issue I have is this: there are 5 times as many Navy men as women, this means that there are WAY more navy men who are raped as navy women but she picked 'percentages' to make it seem as though it's a bigger problem for navy women.

themolestedsliver · 2023-06-27T17:17:43+00:00

The core of this miscommunication stems from people relying on and perpuating generalizations.

In work, social and education circles I've seen this echoed so much it isn't even funny.

No one is a monolith of their race/ethnicity/gender/identity and a big elephant in the room is that women are apparently allowed to treat men like that whereas men treating women like that are (rightfully) called incels and misogynists.

The fact that a women can say the most derogatory comment they could think of about a men with zero consequence whereas my career and or education would be jeopardized if I implied something leads to a lot of resentment.

StripedFalafel · 2023-06-27T08:01:59+00:00

I don't think the problem is "miscommunication between men and women". The problem is between men & feminists. There's only a problem with women to the extent that they hold feminist views.

frankieche · 2023-06-27T11:53:52+00:00

OP wants to shift blame onto men. This is obvious.

denisc9918 · 2023-06-27T07:25:39+00:00

woman who was raped in the Navy

The numbers that the US military are reporting are appalling and in any other industry would result in immediate closure. I couldn't find any definition of SA, nor could I find separate numbers for SA v Rape. Something smells very bad with the numbers there... Given the minuscule number of men outside the military that commit actual SA and/or rape I find the military numbers impossible to believe without access to the actual data. Too long in Data Analysis has led to me having no faith in "summaries" alone.

and you seem content to believe this Navy women on her word alone, so I guess you subscribe to BelieveAllWomen, I tend to remember Amber Heard and co.

generally..

Women themselves on Dating Apps and social media exposed their true feminine nature and forever destroyed the Disney Fairytale image that most men had.

Then they started the whole.. KillAllMen, BelieveAllWomen, All Men are Trash, We Don't Need No Man, etc etc ad nauseum

How many provenly false SA & Rape accusations have there been?

Should I go on??

There is no misunderstanding from the mens side.

Oh, and NOBODY on this sub gets away with saying "all women are" any damn thing.

Top-Bumblebee8411 · 2023-06-27T16:55:30+00:00

I am afraid that men are not seen as individuals. We are a group called “men”. So instead of hating the rapist, like I do, like the boy who assaulted my daughter. They see it as all of us. And they call it a culture.

To be fair though, most women have had their share of bullshit treatment so I get it.

I asked my friend if she thought women secretly hate us. She said no.. we fear you. And I get that. I mean would I make love to a woman who is twice my size and 5 times stronger?

So that would be a 450 pound woman who I could not get off me when I wanted? Kinda scary to be honest.

So in answering your question.

Women are scared of us and they are lashing out I. All these different ways.

Current_Finding_4066 · 2023-06-27T21:32:01+00:00

As long as women blame all men and try to force us to believe all women in spite of rampant false allegations, and to boot make fun and disregard male victims of female rapists, there is no common ground as far as I am concerned.

And you are doing yourself a disfavor. I used to care about womens issues. Guess what, not anymore. Not unless it is a woman I personally care about. I am through giving respect to someone who does not respect me.

B1uefalc0n · 2023-06-27T15:44:54+00:00

The issues men face are regular men having issues with the majority population of women where womens issues with men come from a very small percentage of men. Ill give some examples.

Custody over our children. On paper men have equal rights over their kids in a divorce, but in actuality, the woman automatically gets custody until the ruling in court no matter what mental health issues she might have. There was a case where a father had to give over his son to the mother who was hearing voices in her head and admitted to it. Until the court ruling. She ended up killing her son with a shot gun. Why does the mother automatically get custody regardless of whatever issues someone may have?
Being a man is apparently inherently evil. Having masculine traits is toxic, if we dont earn 100k and are over 6ft we are incels. If we treat every woman we cone across like they are angels that need to be worshipped we are misogynistic.

Womens problems with men.

Fear of being assaulted.
Dont want to live in a patriarchy.
All men are pigs
Too many losers that dont earn enough look good enough, tall enough.

Our problems come from how women treat us as a whole. Womens problems comes from a small percentage of bad guys. And an even smaller percentage of rich super Successful guys. Men as whole cannot fix these problems for women. Women as a whole can fix our problems.

Dizzirron · 2023-06-27T07:25:42+00:00

The future of men is an army of brothers. A lot of the media including Reddit paints a picture of men as “falling behind in education, marriage, work, society.” I see a lot of men in 2023 becoming healthy, fit, and god fearing. A lot of women are anxious these days, because they have intuition to know that men are separating, training, and creating a world that is increasingly unkind to the status quo.

Wise_Bodybuilder_224 · 2023-06-27T19:59:09+00:00

Looks like we need more empathy and less lurking threats in the world! #NoMoreHeartlessActions

sharksville · 2023-06-27T14:14:21+00:00

For most people, it’s easier to just blame because it’s quickly done and over with rather than looking at various other factors that may explain otherwise. What they don’t want to do is be rational about things. The only way I see this issue being fixed is if we start with our young ones. I’ve got kids and I teach them these sort of things. I teach both my boys and girls what they should expect when they have girlfriends and boyfriends and how they should treat them etc. Other than that, it mostly seems like a waste of time trying to fix it with arrogant grownups who have already decided to be “not right in the head”

Codename-18 · 2023-06-27T17:21:15+00:00

The truth is men learn and adapt to communicate more in a feminine way, but women don't. Why? They don't need to, they've got pussy. On top of that sexual strategies are adversarial, but by and large it's only men who can go for non-zero-sum games. In the aggregate women can't, maybe someone can but don't rely too much on it. Then, how do you conjugate open straightforward masculine way with indirect, subtle mainly passive-agressive female way of communicating? You can't.

And, even more importantly, who starts?

Troll4everxdxd · 2023-06-27T20:08:50+00:00

I think there will always be some level of discrimination, dismissiveness, distrust, or any other kind of "othering" not only between men and women, but between different groups of humans.

It's due to a mix of tribalism, the innate human search for conflict, and a misguided sense of self preservation by propping us up at the expense of putting others down.

In the case of men and women in particular, add what I said to a very heated and problematic history of dynamics between the genders, and extremist groups in both progressive and conservative spheres that feed on that human tendency of othering (like incels or a certain portion of feminists) and voila, you get a war of the genders that doesn't seem to have an end in sight.

Edit: On a more optimistic note, despite all of this, we can always make sure we treat our family, friends and acquaintances with care and respect regardless of their gender, race, class, sexuality, or any other innate quality, and to tell the polarizing groups of people looking to divide us to fuck off.

Neither_Still8887 · 2023-06-27T06:26:47+00:00

Both sides are constantly comparing and complaining about each other.

I think you answered your own question

Everyone thinks they have it worse. Unwilling to conceed someone else might not be privileged.

And the fact we group people together. "all women are...", or "all men are..."

Grouping people based on gender makes little sense.

mrkpxx · 2023-06-27T10:10:37+00:00

I think the error is in the comparison you're making.

If a woman is raped, that does not justify discrimination against men.

After all, there is no justification for discriminating against women if they cause lifelong damage to the embryo during pregnancy through incorrect behavior (e.g. consumption).

And we would all prefer to live in a world where fewer children are born with birth defects. And that number far exceeds that of rape.

khanivorus_rex · 2023-06-27T09:33:34+00:00

Blaming stub and comparing stub to something is an easy way to navigate our place in the world and cope with our perceived misery and lives on, we do this to almost everything men and women is just the tip of the iceberg for easy targets. These collective mistrust is just the byproduct of similar experience try to lick our wound and affirming our experience, not to mention these day we lack tolerance and have the weird mentality of dont support = opposing. But today i would say its more like feminist ideas vs something rather than men v women.

If you want to empathize and understand with the people you care about just communicate with them about it not every problem is gender exclusive nor does it required any special demands to be able to understand and empathize.

Why would seeing injustice and lack of support in the case for women change anything, its the same sometimes even worse for the mens and vice versa.

Can it be fixed ? idk so far no good solution yet, the only one that seem to bootleg it was give them something bigger to bitch about or pose enough threat that they can put aside their differences.

Greg_W_Allan · 2023-06-28T05:19:00+00:00

Can it ever be fixed?

Only if feminists pack their bags and piss off.

denisc9918 · 2023-06-27T06:43:23+00:00

Are you referring to the post on TwoX titled "My "misandry" is not unfounded."

HotRaise4194 · 2023-06-27T14:44:24+00:00

Merely looking a woman is not an issue, it’s the prolonged leers that are problematic and women can feel it.

Observer_7578 · 2023-06-27T20:39:22+00:00

Men = 1. 2. 3. 4. 5.

Women = 1. 2... Pink. Sky. Blue. Train.

That about sums up the issue...

Rebel_Scum_This · 2023-06-27T22:41:29+00:00

For what it's worth- I'm in the Air Force but work with all branches. The Navy is fucking terrible, with toxic leadership, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if her leadership told her it'll just be easier if she just stayed quiet, probably said it'll make life hard for everyone, nothing would happen, etc.

jake-n-elwood · 2023-06-27T23:41:04+00:00

Honestly it would be better if men and women didn't need each other sexually. Hetrosexual men are biologically wired to desire sex from women. And It's an intense desire. And generally they do not know how to interact with women, who seem generally angry with men to begin with. It's not a good combination. Men would be better off not needing sex. Sorry to not have more positivity lol

If you want to help the men in your life I would suggest steering them towards Mark Manson's material. It's as good as it gets for men.

bigLeafTree · 2023-06-28T01:24:34+00:00

I believe or like to believe this issues are not happening in other countries so it is not an issue inherent to the differences between men and women. I think this is all because of the system we live in, that look to divide people with race, gender, etc wars. The media by constantly dramatizing and bombing us with this wars predisposes one of the sides to assume everything is because of their gender, race, etc. And any argument, accident or confusion can lead to accusations of racism, homophobia o sexual accusations.

-GoldenHandTheJust- · 2023-06-28T04:00:22+00:00

i personally think the dissonance isn’t that significant (though growing), and is just smoke and mirrors from the often extreme forums for both sides which don’t represent their actual opinions. (this sub included btw). The tribalism of both sides is probably because they both blame the other gender, who then in turn feel angry as they feel personally attacked, and neither extremes put themselves in the position or shoes of the other to understand their actual stance,

Guyonstockmarket · 2023-06-28T10:34:53+00:00

Mens rights and feminism don’t get along very well with each other because they have opposing views. I agree a lot more with this movement on a lot of subjects and I can also have a proper conversation feminism is right about a few things but wrong about so much more

Affectionate-School3 · 2023-06-29T04:51:11+00:00

OP, you seem to insinuate that generalized hatred of males is justified because of a woman who was r*ped by a man. If this is not the case, disregard my response.

My mother and father both r*ped me when I was three and younger. Then, to cover her tracks, my mother arranged a new assault from a teenage boy so that when my memories formed, I would blame everything on the most recent predator, the teenage boy.

I acquired CPTSD from all this and have a deeply embedded suspicion of all people. Your reference woman and other women who were r*ped by men may distrust all men as a result, but they probably lack the self awareness that tells them they are simply clinging to their trauma. Social norms confirm to them that men are untrustworthy, and those norms are lacking regarding predatory women, therefore it was easier for me to say to myself “hey not all people are predators,” compared to my female counterparts who are socially inhibited from reaching the same conclusion about men.

Men are also subject to a higher risk of violence. Not sexual assault per se, but sexual assault IS a violent attack. If you tally all violent attacks, men are at a higher statistical risk. I think of this and scoff every time women say how dangerous the world is for them only.

Title	Why is there such a miscommunication between men and women?
Author	Foreign_Law3727
Upvotes	91
Comments	112
Date	June 27, 2023 6:21 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/14k5hs6/why_is_there_such_a_miscommunication_between_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-is-there-such-a-miscommunication-between-men.1223566 https://theredarchive.com/post/1223566

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