CMV: No one needs sex

hyperrreal · 2016-02-11T15:07:17+00:00

I'll CMV.

There is social/global need for sex, because human societies depend on human reproduction to perpetuate themselves. No sex, no more people, no more human civilization. In this sense we all need sex pretty desperately.
Emotional/social needs are still needs. Active, real-world sexuality is part of being an adult human. It's essential to who we are. Even so-called "asexuals" have an identity that is defined in relation to sexuality.
Finally, I'd argue that there is an innate sex drive that needs to be satisfied. All animals share this drive. The evidence for this is overwhelming.

Even your own arguement is evidence for sex as a need. You're pointing to a group of people whose sexual needs aren't met, and observing how much pain they are in. Who are you to say that their self-understanding of sex as a need is wrong?

you_done_messed_up · 2016-02-11T15:20:50+00:00

OP, read the top 100 posts on /r/deadbedrooms

The lack of sex / intimacy kills people from inside. And not just men.

ExpendableOne · 2016-02-11T19:28:09+00:00

Sex is nice to have but you won't die without it.

Lets lock you up in an isolation chamber and rob you of all your senses and isolate you from all social contact for the next few years... it's okay though because you won't die! Clearly as long as you have food, water and oxygen, it's all good. All the other stuff is just socially motivated!

Your post reeks of ignorance and privilege. You wouldn't be making this kind of ridiculous argument if you had ever been in a position where sex, love or validation wasn't readily available to you. This is the type of shit most often argued by women, because they have no idea just how privileged they actually are. The fact that women get to grow up in a society that allows them to take male attention and sex for granted, to the point where they can even actively and openly resent male attention/sex, doesn't change the fact that it's still a basic need for human beings, or men specifically.

Your entire argument could essentially be equated to a rich person living in a first world country, with abundant free water, cheap food and clean air all readily available for them to consume, making the argument that people don't really need those things to live or that they aren't important, and that starving children in 3rd world countries are just dying and struggling because that have bad attitudes. It's disturbing.

enternationalist · 2016-02-11T15:11:28+00:00

What's happening here is partially, perhaps, just a difference in the use of the word "need". I don't think many people view sex as truly a life-or-death need like, say, oxygen. So, let's be understanding that people may mean different things by the word, even if they're not quite correct in using its literal definition.

However, that's not the substance of what you're saying, so let's move on.

Yes, a desire of sex as a form of social validation is, in part, socially constructed. However, does that mean that it's invalid to feel unhappy about a lack of sex? After all, humans are social creatures. I can see, however, how that could be viewed as somehow illegitimate.

Many would also argue that a desire for sex (and, indeed, a desire for sexual social validation) is to some degree biologically hard-wired. People come in many different forms, and people are going to feel this need for sexual fulfilment more than others -- this is certainly something we know. I don't believe it's surprising, given that, that there are many people for whom a lack of sex - while not literally killing them - is a substantial hit to quality-of-life.

Now, you may argue that this need is amplified by insecurity, and that perhaps these individuals should work on deconstructing their social motivations. Now, that's a legitimate argument. Indeed, for most people, it's true that things they feel strongly about are unlikely to be completely biological in nature, and could possibly be influenced.

Understand, though, that that's asking quite a lot of a person - asking them to perceive the difference between social and biological impulse, and to deeply change themselves to fit a worldview that might not be comfortable to them - or that they might not even agree with at all. It's difficult. If it was easy to wrangle such things, people wouldn't be frustrated. And I think, perhaps, it's unfair to imply that such frustration is to be looked down on as invalid.

People are feeling things, strongly. Being loved by someone else feels good, and not being loved can hurt - and the physical expression of that is tied into the emotional expression of that for many people.

I don't think it's hard to see how someone could legitimately feel that they "need" sex in the same way that they "need" the other things that make them feel fundamentally happy in life. You may disagree with them on the consequences of that feeling and what should be done about it, but I think ... it would be nice not dismiss people's feelings out of hand just because their view may not align with yours.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2016-02-11T15:17:12+00:00

It kills mens souls' (figuratively). status and validation are human needs. youre just removing that from your equation

Vzuv · 2016-02-11T16:01:13+00:00

This is just silly pedantry.

Sure, technically speaking, people only really "need" oxygen, some kind of food and water, and that's it.

You don't need sex. You don't need entertainment. You don't need companionship. You don't need variety. You don't need freedom.

Need them to survive? No. Need them to be happy? Yes.

Xemnas81 · 2016-02-11T15:19:07+00:00

Your argument is that certain needs are higher up Maslow's hierarchy, including sex, thus socially conditioned by patriarchy. My CYV would be that social, emotional and psychological needs have root biological origins.

Carkudo · 2016-02-11T15:21:49+00:00

It's not possible for a human being to live a satisfying life without being intimately validated as a person (instead of as a function), and the only way an adult human being can receive this kind of validation is romantic and sexual intimacy.

So yes, sex is a need. And if you're going to counter that lack of sex doesn't directly cause death, and therefore sex is not a need, then you're applying unfairly strict conditions and are clearly biased.

NataliyaKochergova · 2016-02-11T15:33:31+00:00

I don't think needs are all about things you'd die without. No one "needs" freedom, either. It sucks to be enslaved, but you won't die of it. This might not completely change your view, but you'll have to admit some things are needs and must be taken seriously, even if you don't die without them.

PIBagent · 2016-02-11T16:23:32+00:00

Sex is nice to have but you won't die without it.

So is money and you won't necessarily die without it either.

LUClEN · 2016-02-11T16:21:38+00:00

No one "needs" anything. Need implies necessity, and no human is necessary. The world will keep turning and the universe will keep expanding with or without you. Whether or not you get your "needs" is irrelevant.

alreadyredschool · 2016-02-11T16:35:03+00:00

What you need: air, food, water, sleep.

So you need nearly nothing. So when people say "need" they mean "strongly want" because "need" has such a low area of applicability.

Let's change the sentence from "I need it or else I die" to "I need it or else I go insane" or "I need it or else I don't feel satisfied/happy/..." here need has a wider area.

Saying that you don't need something is pretty useless argument.

AldoR23 · 2016-02-11T17:51:39+00:00

In the same fashion, you could say that a human doesn't need to be "free" to live. He could live in solitary confinement all his life on water and bread.

He'd still go apeshit long-term.

[deleted] · 2016-02-11T20:23:48+00:00

[permanently deleted]

sjamad · 2016-02-11T15:45:11+00:00

Hey OP, during open heart surgery, who was the magician who replaced yours with a square block of ice

voteGOPk · 2016-02-11T19:55:05+00:00

you need sex as a subset of deep affection for a healthy life.

sure,

you can be a neurotic incel who never cuddles and have sex and live an unhealthy life....

FromThePit · 2016-02-11T20:17:16+00:00

Men need sex. We go crazy without it. CMV.

Whisper · 2016-02-11T20:58:21+00:00

No one needs anything.

trp132 · 2016-02-12T19:13:11+00:00

Sex is nice to have but you won't die without it.

Hmm...From this sentence alone, I bet you're a woman. looks at profile...yep, you're a woman.

I mean no disrespect, but in the same sense that men will intrinsically never be able to understand what the pain of childbirth is like, you will never be able to understand what sexual needs feel like for a man. Sorry. It's biology.

There is a LOT of evidence that testosterone levels basically indicate the amount of arousal you have and the state you are in and the need to orgasm that you feel. On average, men have a baseline in their system somewhere in the range of 900 ng/dl of testosterone, whereas women have in the range of 90 ng/dl on the high end. http://www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/hrt_ref.htm.

I can't find the reference now, but during sex, at the peak of sexual desire and desire for orgasm, female testosterone equivalent levels spike up to 1100-1200 ng/dl where mens spike up to about 1050. This means that the standing base of male existence is 90% of what a woman feels like at her maximum peak of arousal....and the rest of the time she feels like 3% of what he feels.

What this means to you is this: in order to imagine what it is like as a man, imagine yourself at the peak of sexual arousal as a woman. That moment when you are just about to orgasm, you're having amazing sex and everything is rushing and you hear your heart pounding in your ears and you can't think of anything else but the orgasm. You NEED it, you need it like food....and if you were to not get it there would be a frustration unlike any other and a pit in your stomach. Thankfully, you only ever feel this way for 2-5 minutes at a time, and usually only when you're actively having sex.

Imagine instead you felt that way %100 of your waking life. In the shower, at work, teaching in front of students, going to classes, riding the bus. You feel the same way you do when you ache to have an orgasm, but you feel it while you eat breakfast in the morning when you wake up...you feel it at your grandmother's funeral. You feel it when you go to therapy, you hear and feel that need to orgasm when you're doing yardwork, when you're playing piano. Every second of every moment of every day there's a tiny dull roar in the back of your mind.

Growing up in a society where you are required to keep it under control has given you the ability to tune it out, to focus on your work, to not look down women's shirts when it's inappropriate, to think about other things...but the roar of the ocean is always always just THERE.

Transmen and low-T men who get hormone injections to rise their T levels only ever get their levels up to middling to below-average levels ANYWAY...yet they are always SHOCKED by the effects and SHOCKED. All of them immediately come away from it understanding the male experience a little better, and they aren't even halfway to average.

Read http://www.eje-online.org/content/165/2/331.full.pdf, then read https://tranifesto.com/2010/03/04/its-the-testosterone-what-straight-women-should-know/ and http://www.gendercentre.org.au/resources/polare-archive/archived-articles/testosterone-and-ftm-sex-drive.htm http://www.chazbono.net/forum/index.php?/topic/755-hormone-question-libido/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ftm/comments/2uk3n9/sex_drive_on_t/

Porn and sexual release and intimacy and sex with real humans is not just some social tic to prove a point, it's an absolute biological demand for most men.

DevilDwarv · 2016-02-11T15:10:10+00:00

Not having sex won't kill you but it sucks bad. Denying that is denying the real pain of a lot of people imo. But hating/complaining about women because they won't give you sex or not in the way you like it? Then you're just an asshole. But wanting sex is natural, after all we are all programmed to reproduce.

[deleted] · 2016-02-11T17:03:39+00:00

I haven't had sex in 9-10 months. Haven't had a relationship for 4 years... I masturbate often and right now this is what I prefer rather than deal with a relationship or people in general. I definitely don't "need" sex. Sometimes I think it would be nice but then I remember all of the things I'm getting done for myself these days. I've almost finished a music album that I've been working on for almost 2 years. I've made so much art. I've travelled all over my country exploring and took some stunning photographs. Definitely do not need sex to be happy. I don't think I've ever been happier. Hopefully when I find my next relationship I will be truly ready for it and remain just as happy.

I think relationships are mostly just not worth the hassle, time and emotional stress. Casual sex is not worth all the chasing women and rejection to finally find one who will sleep with you and then the stress of womdering did she get pregnant or did I catch a disease.

ProbablyBelievesIt · 2016-02-11T17:06:30+00:00

Except - people kill themselves pretty often because they feel rejected by the world.

If you want to blame the world for poisoning people's minds with fantasies of Disney and porn, I'll join in. But to claim that no one in the world, as it stands, will die because of social rejection is to hide in a child's crib and pretend other people's problems will just go away, if only they want them to.

It's a selfish instinct. I urge you to reject it.

I may agree the manosphere is a toxic toilet, but demanding empathy without giving any is a failing proposition.

squidracer · 2016-02-11T17:12:00+00:00

Didn't need a new truck ethier..

truthuncensored · 2016-02-11T19:24:37+00:00

While a person won't die from lack of intimacy, it's a need on par with having social group. Sure, a person doesn't die from having no friends, but it certainly isn't healthy.

Your inability to understand this demonstrates a glaring lack of empathy for men who want intimacy but have not been able to get it.

teeay · 2016-02-11T19:44:33+00:00

Male or female?

GregariousWolf · 2016-02-11T19:48:43+00:00

Wasn't there a thread on this recently? In Maslow's hierarchy of needs, sex is placed at the very bottom along with other physiological needs. Maslow himself wrote "One thing that must be stressed at this point is that love is not synonymous with sex. Sex may be studied as a purely physiological need."

circlhat · 2016-02-11T19:49:19+00:00

cold condescension directed at women.

No we just want to stick our penises in them, no mess of rage here

gavinok · 2016-02-12T00:02:13+00:00

You do not need anything. You can be kept alive on cardiopulmonary bypass, you do not even need to eat, breathe, drink or sleep.

redmachines · 2016-02-12T02:44:29+00:00

Incel shaming is real and is driving men insane. The toxic BP does this every day and to a far worse degree than TRP. Eliot Rodgers was the worst case scenario, but I am sure there are millions of other men who feel worthless because they aren't getting laid. Sex isn't a biological need; it is now a social need as well. Good luck trying to get people to respect you when you aren't getting laid.

chasingstatues · 2016-02-12T02:51:57+00:00

You seem to only be viewing this through a singular lens focused on TRPer type dudes. But biologically, humans crave sex. Asexuality isn't the norm. We start getting horny, usually, around puberty. Some people even earlier than that (guilty --- and I'm a girl).

I was also a virgin until 23. I think it's wrong to assume the desire for sex is only tied to need for validation. Sex is a part of intimacy for most people. I mean, you could say desiring any kind of relationship (sexual, romantic, or friendly) is a need for validation. And if you don't think that---if it makes sense to you why people need friendships and romantic relationships, I'm not sure why you would put sexual relationships in a different category. Maybe you prioritize things differently, but how is it fair to project your personal standards and desires onto others?

I'm not red pill and I do think plenty of these guys base their self-esteem on the number of notches they can scratch on their bedposts. I'm not saying that's healthy. But I don't think living a totally sexless life is healthy for most people, either. If that weren't true, you'd basically be stripping asexuals of their identity because we'd all apparently be as well off without sex as they are.

redambience · 2016-02-12T02:53:36+00:00

So, coming from a base like Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, do I also not need breathing, shelter, water, food, sleep, homeostatis, or pooptime?

My choice of the word "pooptime" is as childish as this question seems to me.

gopher_glitz · 2016-02-12T03:30:55+00:00

The pain/discomfort you feel from not breathing, hydrating, eating is so you don't die.

The pain/need for sex is so we don't all die out.

It's a very real drive, esp for men. For women it's more about babies.

yo_radical_one · 2016-02-12T10:40:47+00:00

Whilst you are correct, this is a fairly banal and meaningless statement.

You don't actually need an education and it is very well known that men who are not able to move into a nice nuclear family are more likely to be unemployed or engage in criminal activity.

Apexk9 · 2016-02-12T11:24:36+00:00

I get really fucken grumpy. I dont enjoy being grumpy... I need sex.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2016-02-12T13:25:10+00:00

No you won't die without sex (although depression can drastically shorten your life) but for most people it is essential to having a life worth living. Same with friendship and hobbies and the like.

Technically you could tie a person to a table and feed them through an IV in total isolation and they will live. But they'd probably prefer not to.

DivinePrince2 · 2016-02-18T01:07:35+00:00

The urge to have sex is a biologically programmed urge that is with us as a sexually reproducing species. Like other animals, we need sex to continue our species.

Some people DON'T need sex. Like me. But we are a very small minority.

UA_Hammer · 2016-02-11T16:13:55+00:00

And yet it's constantly shoved in everyone's damn face in tv, music, games, and just the shit everyone wears.

Title	CMV: No one needs sex
Author	Titaniu
Upvotes	7
Comments	95
Date	February 11, 2016 2:57 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/4594s5/cmv_no_one_needs_sex/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-no-one-needs-sex.276293 https://theredarchive.com/post/276293

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