Discussion: N-count.

goatismycopilot · 2017-11-24T10:36:13+00:00

The best mechanism to determine N count is to put her in a lake and pile rocks on her, if she floats her N count corresponds to the exact N number the man who is interested in her approves of, if she drowns she was a witch.

Electra_Cute · 2017-11-24T11:58:09+00:00

When certain topics are brought up frequently; female "rape" fantasies, single mothers and N-count; it always makes me ask the question "Why would people bring this up so often"? I may have found my answer.

You will notice how a lot of users go on a crusade to prove that "sluts are bad" or "sluts are broken" "sluts are [insert adjective of choice]", or some spiel about pair bonding. The N-count argument is usually the same prepackaged arguments repeated over and over again. The part of the entire argument that is puzzling is why they do not just say "I do not like sluts", but it never stops there, there is always a need to prove something.

A lot of what The Red Pill descriptions do is take sociosexual dynamics and simplify them to a singular answer to help justify the world view as truth. A lot of Red Pill users view relationships and sex the same way that "Nice Guys" do, they view them as transactions, not as communication, but a literal business transaction, in which females are trading their sex for "value". When a female is engaging in sexual intercourse in this view, she is always giving it as a "reward" or "currency" in response to a male, females do not have sex for enjoyment, but as a "payment".

So if sex is viewed as a payment or reward, that means that every new male that a female chooses to have sex with she is "paying" or "rewarding" someone, the other aspects of sex are completely ignored. If the N-count of a particular female was for example, 8, that means that she had sex with 8 different males, and all gave them her "reward" or "payment", it had nothing to do with her just wanting sex because it is pleasurable. Because the assumption that the sex was given as a this "payment" or "reward", that means that each of those males did something that warranted receiving sex, that means they must have been "Chads" or any word choice one would like to use. Now because they are in competition for the "reward" or "payment", the entire thing seems as if it is more about the other males that she had sex with, as opposed to the number of males and how that male feels he would stand up to them.

Now obviously the females who give sex have to be punished somehow--but not for their wrongdoings, but for making someone feel bad about themselves, high N-count is the inability to pair-bond, they have to marry a "beta" because "Chad" is too busy with the virgin he chose and never chose her. Making someone else feel bad, means that that person is bad there has to be some moral punishment for her behavior.

This is what I am leaning towards the most when it comes to these discussions now, because that is ultimately what it seems is causing them. Males outside of this community obviously care about "sluts", but it is only the males part of this community that are absolutely obsessed with the number, and go to great lengths to make it into a system, I would surmise most males do not even think about this sort of thing or even care. The N-count could be 1, 5, 10, and someone with the level of insecurity that would read r/TheRedPill would just fill in the gaps, N-count of 1 would just be 1 "Chad", 5 would just be 5 other males they have to compete with etc. etc.

ee4m · 2017-11-24T12:00:09+00:00

Best way to determine n count of a woman.

Have a relationship with them, be enthusiastic about sex and have and a non judgmental mentality about n counts.

Then through communication you will find out.

littleeggwyf · 2017-11-24T08:33:39+00:00

1: It's about ego i think, boys want to be the best. And there is a true thing that someone with loads of failed relationships is probably not a good partner!

2: I lied about not being a virgin to other girls, noone wants to go on a night out with a boring prude

3: You can't, but could ask her friends when they're drunk so it's sort of a joke

4: You shouldn't really

5: No idea, and it's more about personal insecurity than facts because if a woman wants a super dick that makes her cum easily and for hours she can just go buy one. If your dick works and she finishes, who cares about comparison?

gabbywonder · 2017-11-24T11:51:13+00:00

My personal N-Count is 1. Before this one guy, I lied to several people about having an N-Count of 5, because I thought it would look better. I had been turned down by guys previously because I was a virgin. I didn't tell the guy I lost my virginity to my N-count until after our 2nd time together. It's my opinion that as much as the red pill loves to talk about high N-counts, apparently a zero N-count, appears to be just as bad. If men are so worried about wanting to look like the best partner a lady can get, why do virgins get turned down a lot?

rulenumber303 · 2017-11-24T14:32:55+00:00

Are there ANY circumstances under which a woman might over-report her N-count, and what would be the implications if that possibility were there as well as underreportage?

Virgins learn not to publicize the fact because it results in all sorts of weirdness from men.So there's plenty of times virgins try to give the impression their count is probably at least 1. So let's say you're in a bunch of friends and the "how many" topic gets raised. A virgin might say "I don't kiss and tell." and act very offended, giving the impression she's got a past to hide.

How often do angelic/chaste/virginal woman actually have a secret "slutty" past? This is every man's nightmare-scenario.

No, no it really isn't a nightmare scenario. I mean its not great but c'mon, let's be realistic about the world and what things really are nightmares.

JezebeltheQueen5656 · 2017-11-24T15:31:09+00:00

Apparently asking about N-counts has ruined many happy relationships.

It has. Why you males wanna know this? Makes no difference whatsoever.

HarpyMaster · 2017-11-24T18:03:34+00:00

Some doods suggested installing keyloggers and whatnot, some suggested hiring private investigators...cool. Good luck finding out my sex-tourism activities under false personas.

washington_breadstix · 2017-11-24T08:04:27+00:00

1: What's the point of all the talk about N-count if there's no way to even determine any given woman's N-count?

A lot of the talk about n-count on this subreddit is theoretical. The talk relates to how n-count should be viewed in the context of a person's fitness for a relationship, etc. In this sense, the logistical obstacle of actually obtaining accurate n-counts from women doesn't matter.

In practice though, I don't think it's about obtaining an exact n-count. More of a rough account of a woman's past number of partners and (more importantly, in my opinion), the context in which she did sexual acts with those partners and the level of emotional attachment she had to each one and/or how easily she moved on to another partner after ending things with one.

The most useful information about a woman's past isn't obtained by bluntly asking her "Hey what's your n-count?" Instead, it's obtained by asking something like "Hey, have you ever tried [sex act] in bed before? What did you think?" and seeing what kind of rabbit hole she instinctively leads you down.

2: Are there ANY circumstances under which a woman might over-report her N-count, and what would be the implications if that possibility were there?

I can't think of any.

3: What is the best method/mechanism to determine a given woman's N-count, apart from asking?

Pay attention to how she talks about sex and past men in her life. Women with higher n-counts will speak with a callous "been there, done that" attitude toward sex even when they don't mean to.

4: How do you go about asking about her N-count and isn't it incredibly rude to ask as well as dangerous/risky because she might react extremely negatively?

I mean, it's pretty rude to ask someone you just met about n-count, but it shouldn't be seen as rude to discuss sexual history with someone you're dating.

5: How often do angelic/chaste/virginal woman actually have a secret "slutty" past?

Probably more often than most guys expect because men are not given any "warnings" about women when we're raised. Women at least get told things like "Boys only have one thing on their minds and you can't let them have it easily," etc. All while men are told "Just be a nice guy and you'll find a nice girl" or some other stupid platitude that doesn't actually help us to navigate the dating world and avoid situations and people that we don't want to end up with.

mistresswhat · 2017-11-24T17:55:25+00:00

No one wants a relationship with a girl with an astronomical N count. But those girls aren’t quite as common as we like to think.

What’s bigger for me is do I think she’s giving me her sexual best? In fact this is a dealbreaker.

There was that horror story where a wife refused to give her husband and father to her kids a blowjob but secretly used to have orgies where she enthusiastically sucked cock.

His point was essentially “I don’t care what you’ve done before but why give your husband whom you claim to love less than strangers?”

It may have been apocryphal or exaggerated but is interesting nonetheless.

Butt-Factory · 2017-11-24T18:31:36+00:00

1: What's the point of all the talk about N-count if there's no way to even determine any given woman's N-count? It's literally impossible.

There is no point beyond autistic nitpicking, really.

**2: Are there ANY circumstances under which a woman might over-report her N-count, and what would be the implications if that possibility were there as well as underreportage?

A lot of people don't keep an exact record. If someone is making an educated guess, there's always a chance it will be off in one direction or another.

3: What is the best method/mechanism to determine a given woman's N-count, apart from asking?

There isn't one, just ask. If you don't trust your partner to tell you the truth you should probably reexamine your relationship in general.

4: How do you go about asking about her N-count and isn't it incredibly rude to ask as well as dangerous/risky because she might react extremely negatively? Apparently asking about N-counts has ruined many happy relationships.

It's just a weird question. In all my years of dating, no one has ever asked. If someone did, I wouldn't necessarily be offended but I would definitely think it was a bit odd and invasive.

5: How often do angelic/chaste/virginal woman actually have a secret "slutty" past? This is every man's nightmare-scenario. There's no way to disprove this nightmare-scenario. Maybe it's a dumb question because you can never find out the N-count, as mentioned above. (And even if the N-count were 1 then it might have been the best dick in the history of the universe for all you know, and she might have been orgasming until she forgot her name and worshipping that god-like super-Chad dick for all you know...so even if the N-count is 1 then you might be pathetic by comparison, yielding yet another nightmare-scenario in addition to the "secret slut" nightmare-scenario.)

If that's your nightmare scenario, your life must be pretty amazing.

brinkleybuzz · 2017-11-25T04:25:00+00:00

People talk about it, men obsess over it and women lie about it because IT IS important. Ask an insurance, human resources or other professional in the business of predicting human behavior if past behavior is a good predictor of current and future performance and they'll tell you - absolutely yes. A woman with a high N count generally sucked at or didn't like monogamy, which makes her a high risk candidate for a future monogamous relationship.
Sure. A woman might exaggerate her sexual experience to fit in with a more experienced / adventurous crowd.
Doesn't make sense to ask outright because it puts the woman you're asking on the defensive, so you likely won't get a fully honest answer. The best way to handle this is to get to know a woman before you commit to her. Establish a non judgemental, sympathetic vibe up front and get her to tell you about her life story and past relationships. Also get to know her friends. You'll find out what you need to know about her without grilling her for a number.
See above. Don't ask for a number. Get her to open up about her life and past relationships.
See above for the answer to this question. You can't tell a book by its cover and you won't know about the skeletons in a woman's closet until she opens up to you.

Alth12 · 2017-11-24T09:15:13+00:00

As for number 3. There's no way of definitely knowing. However there are some signs in actions and in looks and words. They're not fool proof at all, but they're an indication.

So if a woman is really quick to escalate sexually with someone she just met and acts in a way that nothing fazes her sexually, would be an example. That confidence has likely come through repetition. It's unlikely a woman will drag you into a club toilet to suck you off and have sex if she's not done that a fair number of times before. Most women with lower end partner counts wouldn't have that sort of forthrightness.

The thousand cock stare TRP talks about has a degree of truth to it as well. Though I'd say it's less the eyes and more general demeanour and body language. The women I've met with really high notch counts act like prostitutes in a club when talking to men. They do all the right things to show interest but the smile never meets their eyes etc. Hard for me to put into words, really. Something just feels off, like the joy of flirting and having fun with someone new most people experience has been dulled into monotony.

Entropy-7 · 2017-11-24T13:00:49+00:00

Other than virgins, it is really like reading tea leaves.

Keep in mind the corelation/causation issue: high n-counts, sluttiness, unstable relationships and such may flow from one source, but not the n-count itself. If you identify the pattern in her psyche and history, the n-count can be 2, 3, 5 or 50 an not really matter as much as the underlying themes.

Would I settle down with an n-50 woman? OK, doubtful although I did have thoughts about an n-30+. And there are many reasons why one would eschew a particular n=3 woman if the warning signs are there. However, n=3 seems to be Nash Equilibrium or something. Something in the timing is everything. N=3 by 16 is different than N=3 by twice that age.

Youth is wasted on the young and virgins are wasted on awkward guys and proto-chads in their teens and maybe early 20s.

AFAIK, I had one virgin and played sloppy seconds to another who should have been mine. Both were minor fiascos.

Weird thing is that when I went on an internet rampage and banged a bunch of single mothers, their N-count was one or two. But obviously not LTR material, just fun bunnies.

That 30+ bird was an outlier. She was a fashion model and a party girl but moving well into her thirities she both held her body together and got a bit of a different perspective. She would have settled down, but I did not have the income to keep her in the style she was accustomed to. . . so we just fucked every now and then.

Unless you are in/from a religious community, you 'aint gonna find a virgin. N-count =<3 is about the best you can hope for, if that really matters to you.

And the paradox is this: high value guys can get low-n girls, but the high-n girls who are otherwise value can only be snagged by high value guys.

throwawaysuperguy918 · 2017-11-24T19:43:57+00:00

The only reason I've ever remotely cared about N-count is that I can honestly always associate a high number of partners with a broken mind. Every girl I've known or dated who has had sex with 50+ men before the age of 30, has had some major emotional issues such as abuse.

I find a high N-count is usually a symptom of another problem in life, and that these women use the validation of easy sex to suppress their insecurities. There's definitely a group of men who do this as well, seeking out easy sex and running at the first sight of commitment, who have avoidant personality types. So if I ever happen to meet a truly, completely emotionally stable woman with a body count of in the 50s, it really shouldn't be a problem.

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WestsideMoonWalker · 2017-11-24T07:40:58+00:00

I'd think it's to parse whether what a person says and what a person does are the same. It's pretty silly honestly. You can get a much better read on a person by looking at what their values on sex are, and see if the way they act matches that, but that is a collaborative approach, not a combative one. Ascertaining a person's values really isn't that hard. It just means you talk with them and dig deep. You ask questions just to hear what they have to say, but that can happen outside of a relationship too. A lot of a person's values are also going to pair quite often with other values imo. One example is that someone who is religious is likely to value chastity, provided their religion really emphasizes it.
When they want to impress a guy with how sexually open they are, for whatever reason. If someone is honest in general, there is really no reason to go looking for a lie though.
Gain an understanding of what their values are regarding sex. Lower isn't necessarily better. It's more about how well you and her match. The person's past history isn't really the most important part of the equation. It's more of a check against what you reference their current values to. Then you can make your own decision. As an example here, someone with a low partner count, who doesn't enjoy casual sex, and has a low sex drive might seem "better" in your terms, but an individual who loves casual sex and has a high sex drive would be a poor match with them.
You don't ask about it. You have conversations on sex and determine whether you are sexually compatible with them, from an overall view standpoint. You also have sex with them at some point and figure out if the fit is poor for some other reason (i.e. two people enjoy very different aspects of sex that are not compatible). The absolute number doesn't matter. It's about whether your perspective on sex and hers align. In an LTR, you are going for fit. There is a reason a lot of people marry equally sexually active partners, generally. People who are virgins have very different values on sex than people who have a lot of casual sex. Women who do not have a long sexual history are more likely to want to wait to have sex, for example. Men who have been burned by commitment might also do something similar with regards to when they commit to someone.
As often as people lie. Honestly, unless you are dating a dishonest person, it shouldn't matter as long as there is compatibility. An honest person understands that being honest with their partner is important, even in less than ideal scenarios, and will treat you with the dignity you deserve, provided they can reasonably expect to be treated with dignity as well. What really is a problem is when you start a relationship with someone who has incompatible views with you. Things get difficult then because you are attempting to reconcile fundamental differences. If one of your core values is commitment to honesty, with yourself and others, and you find a similar person, the likelihood of this is low. If you have low standards of other people, it will happen more often.

Ultimately, the hand-wringing over partner count is silly. It's much more about whether there is attraction and a relationship is built on a solid base of love, support, compatible values, honesty, and trust. Those are absolutely indispensable to a healthy long term (think life-long marriage) relationship. Whether someone slept with one or two more people in the past than the other person or not doesn't really have an impact on a macro level. The issues crop up when one of those core aspects of a relationship is compromised, thus complicating the relationship on that macro level.

Hopefully this is enough to go off of. I've been up for about 20 hours now, so I just kinda wrote stream of consciousness shit.

professor_mcamateur · 2017-11-24T11:03:46+00:00

1.) through 5.):

The part of you're mind thats probably wondering doesn't actually want to know the number (quantity). It likely wants to know the quality on some primal level (was it rape? consensual? continued? childbearing?) and if at all considering "her," well I guess you could just ask her if she liked it... Further, "her" take on it will be intrinsically different so really what your dirty little insignificant mind is wondering is sort of something you would be better off asking her last ex-boyfriend(s) - even though you think it's a completely different question when you hear it come out of her mouth.

Come in her mouth, not listening to her mouth off about other guy's come. That's actually disrespectful in some circles I'll have you know...

Merger-Arbitrage · 2017-11-24T14:40:05+00:00

1: What's the point of all the talk about N-count if there's no way to even determine any given woman's N-count? It's literally impossible. All you can know is that if she decides to tell you then it almost certainly isn't less than the number she gives because she has every incentive to under-report rather than over-report the number.

Some people have nothing to hide and aren't remorseful, guilty or ashamed about their past experiences. Being able to take an educated guess at when someone is hiding something or lying is also handy.

2: Are there ANY circumstances under which a woman might over-report her N-count, and what would be the implications if that possibility were there as well as underreportage?

Young women who feel their friends are getting more "action" may over-report to "fit in."

3: What is the best method/mechanism to determine a given woman's N-count, apart from asking?

Her boyfriend / relationship history is the best starting point. Then any gossip around her more casual "encounters."

4: How do you go about asking about her N-count and isn't it incredibly rude to ask as well as dangerous/risky because she might react extremely negatively?

It's not rude or weird at all if you're getting sexual with her.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/97433-more-women-than-men-care-about-a-new-partners-sexual-history-says-new-study-and-over

Women want to know. Women share. Far more common than the edgy weirdos on this forum will care to admit.

5: How often do angelic/chaste/virginal woman actually have a secret "slutty" past?

No more than 10% of the population, based on how many women can remotely-objectively called "sluts" anyway (say... part partner count of 15.. or 10 or so).

exit_sandman · 2017-11-24T18:19:19+00:00

2) There is a situation when this happens: the woman in question is a virgin but doesn't want you to think she's weird or something like that.

3+4) Guesswork, conjecture, pretend sex-positiveness. You don't ask, you lead her into a situation where she'll offer that fact by herself; or will expose herself because she's been goaded into it.

5) Unless we're dealing with a social environment that values virginity greatly, I doubt too many sluts will pretend they're chaste. Women with huge N counts omitting that detail or outright denying it isn't that unlikely, though.

blackedoutfast · 2017-11-24T18:39:45+00:00

it is usually impossible to get an exact number bc frequently even the girl doesn't really count the exact number - lots of girls won't consider a blowjob to count, or it doesn't count if the guy was just a drunk one-time hookup, etc. so she may truly think she has an n-count of 7 when everyone else would say it's 10 or whatever.

but it is possible to get a fairly accurate approximation. if the girl considers you to be sex positive and non-judgmental and she doesn't see you as a potential beta provider type boyfriend material or a friendzoned orbiter, they are usually pretty open about their prior sexual exploits. if they feel like they won't get slut-shamed a lot of girls will almost brag about how slutty they are to impress you, especially once they've had a few glasses of wine.

the above technique may be difficult or impossible if you have autistic tendencies or don't have a lot of experience with women. you can't just straight up ask her for her n-count like a sperg and expect to get an honest answer, because 99.999% if a guy is interested in a girl's n-count, he will be judgmental about a high number. instead you need to start telling stories about your crazy sexual exploits so she will see you as a fellow slut.

i have met some girls who exaggerated their n-counts upwardly. very low n-count non-slutty girls (the kind you're looking for) who were more embarrassed about their lack of experience. one girl i remember was pretty open about telling people her n-count and i happened to overhear her talking about it right before and after i fingered her through her panties one night and her number went from 5 to 6.

low n-count virginal girls also tend to be more immature and inexperienced when they talk about sexual stuff, it's like the female version of that scene in "40 year old virgin" when he says boobs feel like bags of sand. they will act like relatively mainstream sexual acts like doggy -style or anal sex are scandalous or kinky.

newName543456 · 2017-11-24T20:34:11+00:00

IMO

So don't try. Just assume answer you don't like and proceed accordingly.
Yes. I had women present themselves as more adventurous than they actually were, when I myself present myself as adventurous enough.
Best as in most effective/moral/mix of both? Effective - snooping. Moral - can't think of any that is effective.
See Ad 1
Not big enough sample size to tell. But I'm sure many women will present themselves as such for nice/stable/boring guy.

miamishowband · 2017-11-24T21:55:56+00:00

I think that you can make an educated guess based on her lifestyle.

There is a point to n-count as if the number was too high, I wouldn't LTR the pig, or probably even have sex with her.

No way would any woman over-report.

Scenario 5 is extremely unlikely.

orangecloverbud · 2017-11-25T04:48:39+00:00

Why not just buy a sex bot if the count is the only thing that matters?

wtknight · 2017-11-24T23:35:16+00:00

She can always lie about her N-count, but then if you catch her in a lie then you know she's not trustworthy. For instance, if she says she has never had casual sex with a stranger, and then you hear from some guy that she slept with him and she later confirms it, then you know she's a liar.
I'm not sure. Probably not.
There is no method. I just ask how many relationships she has head and if she has ever been into casual sex. I've never been with a woman who was ever into casual sex as far as I know, so I assume that the number of relationships she has had is her N.
I don't think it's rude to ask someone about past partners and their sexual habits. It's being sexually cautious in terms of the possibility of STD's, in my opinion. If a woman said that she didn't want to tell me her N but was willing to take a test of every STD out there and show me that they are all negative results, I would be satisfied, although I don't think a woman who is high N and myself would be that compatible personality wise.
I'm not sure, but if a woman is shy around strange men, you can guess she probably hasn't been with many men.

Everyones__Grudge · 2017-11-26T13:38:12+00:00

Do you not know what a hymen is? Oh, and yeah I'll make sure to avoid marrying a woman who's ever been ""horse-riding"".

Pope_Lucious · 2017-11-24T11:53:17+00:00

Men value sexual fidelity more than women. Sexual infidelity is far less likely to be forgiven by a man.

The largest predictor of marital infidelity (for both men and women) is number of sexual partners before marriage.

kunlangeta · 2017-11-24T12:14:37+00:00

1: What's the point of all the talk about N-count if there's no way to even determine any given woman's N-count?

It is as hard to determine if your partner cheated on you, yet people do it and leave cheaters all the time. Also, with current state of social media and deteriorating privacy, these things are easier to determine than ever.

2: Are there ANY circumstances under which a woman might over-report her N-count, and what would be the implications if that possibility were there?

I know a girl who was a virgin at 24 and lied about having sex in the past. So, it happens.

3: What is the best method/mechanism to determine a given woman's N-count, apart from asking?

Keylogger and snooping. Not that I've ever done it, but if I ever find a girl I am seriously considering my future with, that will be my approach (of course, cross checking with info she told me).

4: How do you go about asking about her N-count and isn't it incredibly rude to ask as well as dangerous/risky because she might react extremely negatively?

In my experience, girls bring this topic up first. Indirectly. If she acts offended/negatively it is because she either sees you as BB or she has something to hide. Or both.

4: How do you go about asking about her N-count and isn't it incredibly rude to ask as well as dangerous/risky because she might react extremely negatively?

Define angelic/chaste/virginal? Either way, the older they are, higher the chance. I am actually at an age where I see all those high school/unviersity sluts trying to settle down. It's funny.

To address few more things I found interesting in your comment:

you can never find out the N-count

That is true, but you are saying that what's needed is to somehow exactly determine N-count. All that is needed is to find one lie, one misrepresentation. That is fairly simple and will happen if you spend enough time with her (and she lies, of course).

And even if the N-count were 1 then it might have been the best dick in the history of the universe for all you know, and she might have been orgasming until she forgot her name and worshipping that god-like super-Chad dick for all you know...so even if the N-count is 1 then you might be pathetic by comparison, yielding yet another nightmare-scenario in addition to the "secret slut" nightmare-scenario.)

I personally don't give a fuck about that kind of comparison, as long as she is treating me similarly.

Il128 · 2017-11-24T15:27:54+00:00

Age she lost her virginity. Add two bodies for every year she's in a relationship. Add a body for every month she's single.

Example:.

She lost her virginity at 14. She's now 20. She's been single for a year. She's had a relationship for five. 10+12=22. She's been with 22 people.

This method tend to be conservative.

Title	Discussion: N-count.
Author	HopefulAboutADHD
Upvotes	10
Comments	302
Date	November 24, 2017 7:19 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7f5u56/discussion_ncount/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/discussion-n-count.264748 https://theredarchive.com/post/264748

Comments

1.) through 5.):