"Rape by Deception"

PBRScagsquad · 2017-11-01T03:28:50+00:00

A whole load of compulsive liars are now massively shit out of luck. In all seriousness though, that is completely ridiculous, she got tricked by a sleazeball, the mere suggestion that that's the same as an actual rape is insulting to actual rape victims. Honestly at this rate much like the term "Nazi" the term rape is gonna be rendered meaningless.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2017-11-01T04:49:39+00:00

Rape by deception in the US requires either that the victim be deceived as to the nature of the act (Dr. Feelgood cases, sex as "medical treatment") or be deceived that the person "raping" them is someone else who WOULD be privileged to have intercourse with them(husband's brother gets into bed with wife and pretends he's him in the dark).

Deceiving someone about ones own status in life (wealth, job, fame, marital status, etc) is not rape by deception. There is no reason to trust what this person says, unlike in the Dr. Feelgood cases (relying on a licensed Dr. s expertise is reasonable) and there is no deception as to the nature of the act. If you analogize this to fraud, there generally has to be a reasonable right to rely on the word of the perpetrator, like the perpetrator presenting himself as an investment banker with credentials to get your money. There's no reasonable right to rely on some mans word he's not married

I DO however see a future for men bringing rape by deception against trannies, should be interesting

oneprettycoolcat · 2017-11-01T03:43:58+00:00

If lying about yourself to get laid is rape, then every human on the planet is a rapist. "Why yes, random girl, you are super interesting and I care about what you have to say."

In any case, sounds like she's just upset that she got conned. It happens to everyone. Just have to pick yourself up, learn to be more careful, and move on.

Thu Jan 1 0:00:00 1970 UTC

[permanently deleted]

sublimemongrel · 2017-11-01T03:36:08+00:00

What do you mean "she is seeking legal action for rape"? I'm beat for the night but if you want I'll look into NY law tomorrow and see if I can find any cases interpreting whatever statute NY might have for "rape by deception." My understanding is that it's exactly what you've stated: impersonation, not just "lying."

what are the ramifications of dating and hooking up if lying about yourself to get sex is now considered rape?

Too much of a slippery slope here, obviously. My guess is, in the rare chance any court would actually accept such an argument and expand what I believe to be true about the "rape by deception" statutes, it would be highly limited to its facts in a very extreme case. There are also competing principles here like the fact that adultery isn't illegal. I honestly don't see that happening in the first place, however.

DevilishRogue · 2017-11-01T09:35:13+00:00

The guy has a better case against her for blackmail/revenge porn than she does against him for rape.

shoup88 · 2017-11-01T03:43:13+00:00

I don't see any legal consequences to what he did. Rape by deception isn't simply lying/exaggerating some aspect of yourself. In the western world, rape by deception usually involves impersonating a specific person. Although there was a case in the UK where a woman pretended to be a man to have sex with their online girlfriend.

Does your friend have a lawyer? What are their thoughts on the matter?

pinkgoldrose · 2017-11-01T04:15:09+00:00

So every time a man has sex with a woman with makeup on, he is raped?

Sky's the limit!

saulbq · 2017-11-01T06:26:44+00:00

Israeli lawyer here. Surprised me to learn that other jurisdictions don't have a fraud rape law. In Israel law stipulates (my translation) that intercourse with a woman is rape if there wasn't free consent or with the consent of the woman, which was obtained fraudulently with regard to the identity of the person doing the act or the essence of the act. If I remember correctly there have been very very few prosecutions. A married, Arab man who claimed to be a single, Jewish, air force pilot got 3 years prison. A woman who pretended to be a man and had sex with under age girls ~~who~~ got no prison time.

Lolashaulke · 2017-11-01T06:21:55+00:00

There was one case I heard about locally that I would definitely bracket under "raps by deception".

The woman's alleged she was on birth control when she and the man had sex. She then admitted she had been purposefully off birth control, which resulted in her pregnancy. In this case the woman admitted it publicly, too.

I think, more often than not, this sort of thing is impossible to prove, though the spiteful part of me wants to slap this charge on people who knowingly transfer an STD because they didn't want to disclose. It's a tricky line and one I don't think is ready for legislature.

Mr_Smoogs · 2017-11-01T11:49:39+00:00

If such a precedence is placed then men would sue women for appearing sane, agreeable and hot but only when wearing makeup.

Jex117 · 2017-11-01T04:15:34+00:00

I have to wonder, is it rape by deception if I exaggerate my job title at the bar? "I build wooden crates" just doesn't sound as good as "I'm a woodworker." Is it rape by deception if I polish up my wedding shoes and put on my suit? By this line of thought, is makeup and hair extensions rape by deception?

rulenumber303 · 2017-11-01T04:29:16+00:00

There's only a certain number of forms I've heard of successful rape by deception prosecutions taking. Plus there's two forms that makes sense would be included but I've never heard of a case of them coming to court.

The first is if you lie by claiming or pretending to be a specific real person. You sneak into her bed and pretend to be her husband. You tell her you are Johnny Depp. That sort of thing. She gave consent to a real person who actually exists, but didn't happen to be you.

The second is if your lie is about a significant aspect of the actual physical nature of what you will be doing. This covers taking off a condom covertly, especially after having been told or having it implied to you that if it isn't on there will be no consent to sex.

The third form is, as you mentioned, Israeli law.

And the fourth... which seems quite obvious to me but has not been tested in court yet as far as I know... if someone lies to you about something that if the truth was told it would indicate the sex is actually illegal. For example, if you might be brother and sister and so before having sex you send off together for DNA tests... then when those DNA tests come back one of you lies to the other about the results so that sex can happen, that would be rape.

The fifth, which also I've never known of a case to come to court over but theoretically makes sense to me, is if the lie was about a fact that if known would have lead any reasonable person in that situation to refuse the sex. Not just whether a good person would refuse the sex, or a law abiding person would refuse the sex, or cautious reasonable people would refuse the sex but adventurous ones might accept it or a person with standards would refuse the sex... but if the court literally can not think of any way that sex could reasonably have been agreed to if the truth had been told.

I don't think she's got much chance in her case if her case is as you describe.

Also what do you mean by "seeking legal action for"? In most places it is the police who get to lay rape charges. IDK about New York, but there's lots of places were criminal charges are only for the police to deal with. If she has the police onside I daresay there's more to the story.

2007drh · 2017-11-01T04:19:16+00:00

I had sex with a girl that used silicone"enhancements" in her brain.

If I knew she was really a b cup, I would have fucked someone else. Do bra inserts, when breast size is something I look for in a partner, mean I was raped?

DarkLord0chinChin · 2017-11-01T08:17:23+00:00

makeup is rape by deception

pinkgoldrose · 2017-11-01T12:18:19+00:00

Lying about your marital status is the oldest trick in the book. I don't think it's rape if she agreed to have sex with him. My advice is to ask the guy to show you his passport on Skype. You can at least make sure he didn't lie about his name and then you can probably find some kind of internet presence that confirms he isn't married. Another good sign would be if he talks to a family member and mentions you.

InformalCriticism · 2017-11-01T16:23:14+00:00

This is some pretty salacious shit on both sides. He's willing to lie about his whole life to get laid, and she's willing to cheapen the word "rape" in order to get revenge. Neither of these folks have firm ground on which to stand.

They should both be reprimanded in a courtroom before the case is dismissed with prejudice.

namdeirfnotlim · 2017-11-02T15:53:24+00:00

She thought that she was trading sex for something, but he ripped her off. If that's rape then so is going on a date, having the man pay for it, and then not putting out.

Electra_Cute · 2017-11-01T03:29:13+00:00

I do not think there is any way she would win the case.

what are the ramifications of dating and hooking up if lying about yourself to get sex is now considered rape?

That lying about yourself could now be considered rape, what else would the ramifications be?

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2017-11-01T04:42:56+00:00

She is a psycho and does not have a case. Well but we know that state loves pondering to women so she can in theory win and I would not be surprised, since america is a land of a free and stupid.

[deleted] · 2017-11-01T05:44:15+00:00

Personally, I believe that its dangerous to equate "rape" with "fraud" because it brings rape from a violent crime based on violation of personal autonomy to having unrealistic expectations of sex. It makes people believe as if bad sex or bad relationships don't exist or should be made illegal.

nemma88 · 2017-11-01T07:40:54+00:00

Not enough under UK law, though the concept of conditional consent exists eg Assange situations, bribery, blackmail etc.

CatchPhraze · 2017-11-01T10:03:50+00:00

Is it sexual assault? Mayyyybe-ish? Rape? No. Do i think she should be able to sue for emotional damages and the money spent during the con? Sure. She probably has a good chance at at-least recouping the monetary value spent flying to him.

lol_throwaway303 · 2017-11-01T10:21:17+00:00

Law & Order: SVU did an episode along the lines of this. Episode was about a Mom who was willing to do anything to get her son accepted into a good school so she slept with who she thought was the dean of admissions. The guy lied and pretended to be the dean and was a janitor at the school who preyed on vulnerable Moms. The DA argued the suspect should be charged with rape for having sex under false pretenses. It was hard to prove and I don’t remember if the episode showed the outcome. It was on last year.

Season 18, Episode 3 - ‘Imposter’

http://www.ibtimes.com/law-order-svu-season-18-spoilers-episode-3-synopsis-released-online-what-will-happen-2425314

lbspredh · 2017-11-01T10:44:56+00:00

IIRC the deception has to pertain to the nature of the sex act, or as you say literally pretending to be someone else who is an actual real person. That sounds like activism rather than a legal case that has merit.

YesICanWhoopUrAss · 2017-11-01T11:33:36+00:00

Why are women not against the broadening up the "rape"s umbrella? This is ridiculous.

Bitch was wearing make-up too, I bet. Pushup bras, shapewear, eyebrows sketched on her forehead, stilettos/pumps to make her legs look toned when their not, and whatever othr deceptive practices women engage in.

But she was "raped". This is why no woman's word should be taken seriously.

Vincent_Marcus · 2017-11-01T16:47:52+00:00

ahahaha i hope she loses all her money pursuing this

GridReXX · 2017-11-01T22:19:21+00:00

She consented to sex -- it's not rape.

She can try for some other fraud charges I suppose. She was hoodwinked!

She has not given up though and claims she is searching for another lawyer to take on her case.

Awww sounds like the ending credits to a Lifetime movie or Dateline episode lolol

winterrider · 2017-11-02T17:26:23+00:00

It is ridiculous. If you fly somewhere and decide to have sex with someone and do so, this isn't rape. Period.

Entropy-7 · 2017-11-03T04:48:52+00:00

I found this. It's from 20 years ago but it is a rather comprehensive oveview of the types of situations we are talking about.

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Title	"Rape by Deception"
Author	Kralee
Upvotes	23
Comments	180
Date	November 1, 2017 3:23 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7a13jh/rape_by_deception/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/rape-by-deception.265085 https://theredarchive.com/post/265085

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