Who Keeps Morality Now?

filamilano · 2018-09-12T14:38:08+00:00

morality, who should keep it

you for yourself. You don't like when women bang randos? Don't be the rando.

sublimemongrel · 2018-09-12T15:00:26+00:00

Individual decision to be made by the individual. Which doesn’t mean people won’t judge you for whatever that decision is based upon their own moral code. I mean the answer to this is sorta clear isn’t it?

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2018-09-12T14:42:00+00:00

There was never a "morality" of ad hoc bf and gf "fidelity". Being in an unmarried sexual relationship itself was "immoral".

Unmarried people are "single", unless they are engaged

Whodunnit88 · 2018-09-12T14:32:42+00:00

Morality is all individual anyway. That guy who posted that thread you referred to was just looking for a bit of self validation on the choices he was thinking of making. He wasn't going to take any advice from any poster that contradicted his world view.

GridReXX · 2018-09-12T15:01:44+00:00

common RP trope of "men enjoying the decline" of women's morals in order to satisfy their own questionable sexual behavior

Restriction of female sexuality was never about “women’s morals.”

It was always in many ways related to “male sexual lust.”

Men wanted virgins for many reasons. But men also seem to animalistically lust for virgins.

Seems like men purported “female sexual morality” to appeal to another aspect of their own sexual thirsts.

Uncommon_Sense_12345 · 2018-09-12T14:54:25+00:00

You don't pursue a girl you know has a BF, not out of respect or concern for her or to be the keeper of her morality, but because you don't want to be that guy who contributes to your fellow man being chumped.

If you want to have sex, get a single girl and feel free to enjoy the decline of promescuity but don't complain about loose premarital sex values when you are actively engaging in the same.

The same goes with cheating in a relationship or marriage. Don't complain about this behavior which you are actively encouraging when you pursue and bed another man's GF or wife and become her AP.

You lose the right to complain about the decline when your actions encourage and support the same.

None of this is about the girl but about the type of man you want to be.

So in essence, you are the keeper of your own morality. And you set the moral standards for what behavior you will accept or reject from a woman.

Aaren_Augustine · 2018-09-12T14:48:40+00:00

If you followed the history of the Suffragettes, women are fully capable of doing what needs to get done. This is on them. Not in a 'its your fault bitches!' kind of way.

This is literally up to them to solve. If men solve it, it will absolutely be solved not in womens favor. But the difficult part is now woman have to come to the table to negotiate. They have to account for both men and women here.

In the egalitarian mindset, it should be easy for women to conduct themselves accordingly. If TRP is the card counters of poker and woman are the house, simply making more unfair rules WILL NOT WORK. It will destroy shit further; for both parties.

Does any of this matter anymore?

The greatest of empires fall because they fail to remember that yes, it matters.

goatismycopilot · 2018-09-12T15:05:57+00:00

People flip out about cheating because when it happens to you it feels bad, humiliating, and hurtful but there is no institutional morality attached to it. It just is not nice. But if you get what you want from the cheating there is no discomfort. It might happen after, or it might not. I am sure plenty of married people here on PPD have cheated, thought about cheating, or come close to it. Nothing "happened".

As far as the idea that since women are liberated from broader moral consequences so that means men should enjoy the decline, I thought that was already going on. Half the threads here are of the enjoy the decline commentary.

321PK · 2018-09-12T14:42:25+00:00

Does any of this matter anymore?

It matters to me. So, that means I judge and dismiss others by my standards. The lovely thing is that others are free to do the same to me. Idc if some ppl want to be garbage fires. I’ll just cross at the next block to avoid their noxious fumes. I sleep great at night, other ppl can do what they want while I remain secure in the knowledge that I am superior. In my own opinion, which is the only opinion that matters to me. 😀

Electra_Cute · 2018-09-12T14:42:30+00:00

It does not matter if there is "weak/no institutional authority on morality", reality will keep you in check. As much as people on here have extremely left-wing moral relativistic views that they profess, that simple is not how the real world functions and it seems to be a complete denial or disconnection from reality. Most of it is just "edgelording" I suspect.

If you kill someone and take all of their things, other people will be inclined to stop you, even if it is your personal opinion that is a "good" thing to do, most people do not see that way or operate that way. The same goes for lying and cheating. If a male decided to string a long a bunch or lie to them to obtain sex, there could potentially be a consequence for that.

Consider also: divorce, single motherhood, out of wedlock births, hookup culture, porn, monetized sexualization of women...all common and relatively normal in modern western society. Individuals may agree or disagree with the morality of it, but a widespread moral authority doesn't govern any of it nor there isn't some broader, enforceable consequence.

A lot of these examples you just listed here are seen as moral failings or considered bad by a large amount of people. People can have various opinions on what is considered "good" and "bad" and those opinions have a fairly large by limited spectrum.

If women are liberated from broader moral consequence for their sexual behavior, why shouldn't men also enjoy the decline?

There are consequences for this, just as there is for any other actions.

Does any of this matter anymore?

Yes, why would it not?

Willow-girl · 2018-09-12T15:04:53+00:00

But ... Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Littleknownfacts · 2018-09-12T15:32:57+00:00

With a weak/no institutional authority on morality, who should keep it (if it should be kept at all)?

Why not let individuals come to their own idea of morality? Everyone has their own code of ethics, and even when slimy people break their personal code, they usually at least feel somewhat guilty about it. "Society" also has a way of keeping morality, in that if an individuals morality differs greatly from the popular morality trends, they are excluded from that society (see: honor among thevies).

Personally, I think the law is as good of an arbiter of any external morality as any that humans have been able to come up with so far. It's flexible enough to change with the values of the people who fall under that law, but it's also idealized enough that it doesn't simply fold to human nature.

For example, when people argue against some law, such as the illegality of pot, they often say "why bother making a law about it, people are just going to do it anyway!" Well yeah, that's the whole point of a law, that there can be repercussions when someone does it anyway. There isn't a single law that hasn't been broken, otherwise we wouldn't need laws.

If women are liberated from broader moral consequence for their sexual behavior, why shouldn't men also enjoy the decline?

Who says they aren't? Almost everyone seems to be enjoying sexual freedom from what I can see...

wtknight · 2018-09-12T15:41:39+00:00

With a weak/no institutional authority on morality, who should keep it (if it should be kept at all)?

Both genders

If women are liberated from broader moral consequence for their sexual behavior, why shouldn't men also enjoy the decline?

Because if more men enjoy the decline and enable cheating than the number of women willing to cheat, it shows that men are clearly morally worse than women. People, both men and women, should be waiting until other people have broken up before engaging in intimacy with them and not enable cheating. Of course, if one doesn’t know that the other person is not single, then that can’t be helped, although I believe that it’s another good argument not to engage in casual sex.

Does any of this matter anymore?

From an ethical standard, one should probably act in ways that they would want to be acted towards themselves. If men don’t want other men to hang their girlfriend, then they shouldn’t be banging other guys’ girlfriends. If they don’t care if other men bang their girlfriend (“proof she was just a slut”) or don’t want a girlfriend in the first place and just enjoy plating or having continual sex with one stranger after another, then I doubt it matters to these guys, as they’d rather just satisfy their libidos rather than attempt to form emotional bonds.

Taipanshimshon · 2018-09-12T19:10:52+00:00

Her bf situation is not my problem. If she has a bf why she flirting ?

petrichordium · 2018-09-12T15:32:13+00:00

There are already consequences for all of the things you listed.

Single mothers are poor, condescended to, and stressed out. Many of them choose all that over abusive or unsatisfying relationships with men who don't pull their weight. It's weird that conservatives who typically believe in rational individual decision making infantilize people making decisions they don't like. Yeah, we don't send them off to the poorhouse or put their children in slave labor camps like in the Olden Days. Is that disintegration of Western morality, or is it a more enlightened way of living?

The consequences of cheating are also already there. I lost most of a whole friend group when I "Branch Swung" girlfriends, and I accepted that as the price to be with someone I liked more. But losing a whole friend group is a substantial price! It has also happened to some hoes I know.

The "institutional authority" you list has always been craven and corrupt. It has always been a centrally planned Maoist patriarch circle jerk. It is a good thing it's disintegrating. That doesn't mean it's easy or straight forward replacing it with a cogent form of sexual morality everyone agrees with, or even that we will EVER have one of those. We might have tribe moralities and contextual judgments. (What flies in a hyperactive poly oriented social milieu doesn't fly in small Bible Belt communities). As a degenerate liberal I am absolutely okay with that. Normies can do whatever the hell they want in Flyover Country, within the context of legality and basic human rights. I believe my system is conducive to greater human happiness and fulfillment, compared to the Olden Ways, for people like me.

says_harsh_things · 2018-09-12T16:32:32+00:00

Old white men.

wekacuck · 2018-09-12T14:52:08+00:00

I'm not sure where that "Dost Thou" thread ended up but my perspective is that cheating is entirely on the cheater. It's the girl's behavior that matters morally, not the dude's.

But also there's no harm in escalating to the point of being rebuffed. If she's not a cheater she can handle it. It's not everyone else's job to police her behavior on her bf's behalf. Also it's patronizing. Unless she's inebriated or in some other state of diminished capacity and agency.

Assuming she's a cheater and her bf doesn't like cheaters you're not doing him any favors prolonging the inevitable.

LewisCross · 2018-09-12T15:47:24+00:00

•With a weak/no institutional authority on morality, who should keep it (if it should be kept at all)?

No one. A better question would be "With a weak/no institutional authority on morality, who ~~should~~ CAN keep it, IS ABLE TO keep it (if it ~~should~~ can be kept at all)?"

Answer: It cannot. We're seeing right now the effects of society's inability to hold it together without a common morality, a "social compact". Maybe everyone doesn't hold to that morality or really believe it. But they agree to live by it; and those who don't agree to live by it or breach it are punished severely, or removed from society for a long, long time, or permanently. You either imprison them, expel them, or kill them.

•If women are liberated from broader moral consequence for their sexual behavior, why shouldn't men also enjoy the decline?

No reason why men shouldn't enjoy the decline. Or, more accurately, no reason why men are bound to a moral code that almost no one believes in, follows, adheres to, or even much pays lip service to anymore.

•Does any of this matter anymore?

Only insofar as who will divvy up the spoils/emerge victorious in the coming collapse.

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UsedAlgae · 2018-09-12T14:51:27+00:00

The individual and the outside culture. There's still consequences even if they aren't enforced by some official authority - there's natural consequences (drama here), social ostracization, and feeling bad about yourself.

Not helping someone cheat makes sense as a moral rule to me, since I'd feel bad for the guy she cheated on.

Why do you think women's sexual liberation should be immoral, though? I don't mean that hypothetically, I mean actually, what is immoral about it?

RoyalAugur92 · 2018-09-12T14:51:33+00:00

common RP trope of "men enjoying the decline" of women's morals in order to satisfy their own questionable sexual behavior

A very common RP trope indeed. Would that morality, and not biology, made women sexually reserved.

crackrocksteady7 · 2018-09-12T20:35:47+00:00

nobody

flamingoinghome · 2018-09-12T20:54:08+00:00

Oh ffs.

Firstly, you people keep conflating "a different sort of sexual morality than the religious/patriarchal one" with "no sexual morality" and that's bullshit. In many ways, sex-positive feminist sexual morality is far STRICTER than the patriarchal one--standards around consent are a good example. And "cheating is bad" is just another spin on "keep your promises"--the idea of wanting to not be a jerk doesn't immediately undergo some massive change just because it's sexual. Really now.

Whisper · 2018-09-12T21:06:00+00:00

With a weak/no institutional authority on morality, who should keep it (if it should be kept at all)?

"Should" is a moral statement. Asking what morality "should" be is circular.

Does any of this matter anymore?

No.

blackedoutfast · 2018-09-12T21:18:39+00:00

With a weak/no institutional authority on morality, who should keep it (if it should be kept at all)?

no one. there is no benefit to being moral anymore. morality is just a way to cuck yourself.

If women are liberated from broader moral consequence for their sexual behavior, why shouldn't men also enjoy the decline?

they should, even the men who want to live in a more traditional, moral society. we are never going back, we can only move forward.

but if we push things forward hard enough and fast enough, maybe something good will rise out of the ashes. but to reach that point we need to dump gas on this fire instead of letting it slowly smolder indefinitely.

stop fighting progress, embrace accelerationism.

Does any of this matter anymore?

nothing has ever mattered

[deleted] · 2018-09-13T00:18:07+00:00

None if it matters, it never has. Do you think the majority of people stuck to these rules when they were the norm? They didn't. It's just out in the open now.

IMO, the question is how far people can get before violence is involved. That's probably the thing, at least legality wise, that's changed. Beating your wife and crimes of passion aren't let go anymore- but how long until they're out in the open like the newfound sexuality is?

[deleted] · 2018-09-13T08:38:10+00:00

Intresting how people say the individual. Id say it's probably more the groups you interact with (family, work, local society) that provide the main backbone of it.

YaAmar · 2018-09-13T09:30:01+00:00

You could always move to Sharia Law Egypt. You'll be happier there. You won't have to worry about women having been touched by another man, and you can dedicate your life to a greater purpose.

gasparddelanuit · 2018-09-13T13:16:43+00:00

With a weak/no institutional authority on morality, who should keep it (if it should be kept at all)?

The need to keep authority should be balanced with the requirement that people be free to live their lives as they wish. Outside of agreed upon prima facie scenarios where chaos may ensue or harm is caused, such as in fraud or murder, people should be left to conduct their personal lives as they wish.

If women are liberated from broader moral consequence for their sexual behavior, why shouldn't men also enjoy the decline?

Women are not completely liberated from the moral consequences of their sexual behaviour. There are still consequences, even if they are not state sanctioned. Men should have equal liberty to conduct their sex lives as they choose also.

Does any of this matter anymore?

Not really, provided people have freedom, the means of subsistence and an environment in which to live happy lives.

mistercheeez-o____O- · 2018-09-13T22:39:42+00:00

Integrity is it's own benefit.

CainPrice · 2018-09-12T17:08:00+00:00

In the socially liberated, mostly atheistic world, we are each our own god. As long as we're not hurting somebody else, we each decide on our own morality.

If I'm a girl in a relationship, but I think I have a good enough reason to cheat because there's something I'm not getting, that's okay.

If it's illegal to use certain recreational drugs, but I think the law is wrong and stupid, it's okay to break the law.

If two (or more) consenting adults want to do something, as long as everybody consents and nobody is harming anybody or forcing anybody or unduly coercing anybody, everything is game, and anybody who gets judgy is wrong and stupid and bitter and insecure.

In today's society, we're all just individual gods walking around interacting with other gods. The law doesn't matter. Religious rules don't matter. The only overarching standard of morality is that when every god gets to do whatever he or she wants, he or she can't intrude on another god's ability to do whatever he or she wants. So I guess the very, very basic tenets of not killing or hurting people and not stealing shit apply, but everything else is fair game.

SpaceWhiskey · 2018-09-12T21:24:22+00:00

I saw quite a few people in the “no don’t bang her” camp, myself included, who stressed that the cheating girl was the bigger asshole in the hypothetical. I don’t think it’s the Rando’s responsibility to enforce morality, she’s obviously a dick for being receptive to another guy’s advances and is responsible for her own behavior. However, that doesn’t make the Rando not also a dick for being a part of the cheating. There seems to be the idea among some men that if the girl is down to cheat, the rando guy is absolved of any responsibility. If you’re gonna fuck a girl who isn’t single, do you, it’s not illegal. But you should own it instead of telling yourself you aren’t a part of something shitty.

Title	Who Keeps Morality Now?
Author	BirdManBrrrr
Upvotes	10
Comments	136
Date	September 12, 2018 2:26 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9f88e2/who_keeps_morality_now/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/who-keeps-morality-now.260856 https://theredarchive.com/post/260856

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