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GomboAndGimlee · 2018-08-10T23:03:35+00:00

I think some seduction material is valuable but some is bullshit, so it's important to think critically about anything you read. It's also good to test it out to see what works and doesn't work for you.

Here's some realizations I've had:

Women aren't going to initiate with me. If I see an attractive woman and want to get to know her, it's up to me to make it happen.
I vibed with all my girlfriends right from the start. When I met them it was easy to talk with them and I felt comfortable. I didn't try and force the interaction.
Looking good makes it much easier. I've seen the numerous 'do looks matter' debates. We all know good looking guys that get women but we also know a couple average/unattractive guys who have gotten a hot woman. The way to reconcile that is the good looking guys won on easy mode while the other guys were able to win on hard mode.
Make your interest in a woman known. We've all seen lots of 'nice guy' posts about how a guy is nice and does nice things and yet another guy who does nothing can swoop in and get the girl. The reason the other guy gets her is that he makes his interest known. The nice guy hides his interest or makes it known when it is too late.

2018-08-10T19:23:04+00:00

[permanently deleted]

yumyumgivemesome · 2018-08-10T21:57:07+00:00

That said, "The Game" and some of those tips really helped get me out of my shell. They gave me the confidence to practice communicating with fellow humans despite feeling scared and intimidated by them. That confidence bled into other areas of my life to help inspire me to be well-rounded in many more ways. The dude's point is valid when someone focuses on tricks to manipulate women. But that's why the book repeatedly espoused the slogan "Leave them better than how you found them."

AdmiralOnDeck · 2018-08-10T23:15:59+00:00

So basically "the game" is the way of the sith and following inner game is the way of the Jedi?

ethical_pa · 2018-08-10T22:45:54+00:00

Meh... this is from a natural's perspective, right? They notoriously make bad teachers.

He's not wrong, fundamentally, but his whole spiel is based on the assumption that game/pickup is "faking it" or putting on a mask. Really it's about developing a skill set; specifically, man to woman communication. Of course as a beginner, you will need some crutches or tricks. Kinda like training wheels. When you're in deep waters and you don't know how to swim, these little lines or tricks will serve as flotation devices. But hopefully along the way, you develop a better, more complete understanding of how women think, what kind of behavior they are attracted to, what they are feeling and how you should respond, and generally your worth as a man. This is outer game. You can do all this inner game shit: " genuinely interesting, high-status, confident man ", but if you don't have the mechanics of outer game dialed in, you will not get laid very often.

Plenty of genuinely interesting, high-status, confident men can't get laid. Plenty of fuckin losers with nothing going on in life know how to talk to a woman and get laid easily.

EDIT: Think of it this way: you can have all the training you want to be a great fighter. Cardio, weight training, sprints and speed exercises, have awesome technique on the bag, etc. But if you've never thrown a punch at someone and never had them swing back at you, you're a shit fighter. That's outer game. In the same way, you have to approach, flirt with, lead women back to your place, experience ASD/LMR, and generally get used to interacting with a lot of women in a man-to-woman fashion if you want to get good with women. This sub needs to stop with the fantasy that you'll magically get woman by being this awesome, irresistible person. That CAN help for sure (and you should do it for yourself), but it's because of how it makes you ACT; it's not fundamentally the reason WHY.

bugxter · 2018-08-10T22:15:08+00:00

Euh... This is kinda like models in the form of a comment

bad_dad420 · 2018-08-11T00:04:30+00:00

/subreddit

lacinyc · 2018-08-10T23:37:47+00:00

Yes, OP and “OP’s friend” totally aren’t the same person.

plaze6288 · 2018-08-10T21:44:58+00:00

Realest advice in this sub

Xanarxses · 2018-08-11T00:05:25+00:00

Everything falls on YOUR lap so everyone else can lean back and relax.

Once you’ve reached somewhere you’re happy to be, approach women you’re interested in and be honest with them about your intentions.

Also this advice doesn't make sense. Part of the reason guys aren't happy is that they lack a very basic human need. That need is the topic of this entire sub. And very very few are driven enough to completely cast it aside.

Naturals are like women. Useless at giving advice.

2018-08-11T00:13:32+00:00

I lost the game

Cymry_Cymraeg · 2018-08-10T23:22:11+00:00

The problem is most people are too lazy to put the hard work in to better themselves.

rickystudds · 2018-08-10T22:53:04+00:00

Great advice! Only kids won't understand what it's like to be a successful and interesting man. If everyone wants your advice women are naturally attracted to you.

masteryimain34 · 2018-08-11T03:49:40+00:00

so basically pickup works and i already workout and eat healthy for myself. thanks dad

thatbowlwillseethe · 2018-08-10T19:45:17+00:00

I'm not really a fan of people trying to kick away the ladder after they've climbed it.

I'm especially not a fan of those with natural talent taking a gigantic shit on the people who need to work at it.

> stop emulating a high status attractive male and focus on becoming one.

... Ok, so fun philosophical question ... When does someone "become" something?

Like if I can't play piano, what would I do to learn? Probably emulate someone who can play a piano? Probably do what they did to become good at it? Take lessons? Watch some videos? Hang out with other piano players?

Would me taking piano lessons be me "posing to be a piano player?" Am I emulating a good player? When I practice, is that me "faking it?"

If I like the music, is the music real?

At what point, does the emulation stop being an emulation? Do people on the outside, who merely hear me playing a catchy tune ... even care?

To learn piano, maybe I should hit the gym? Live a great fucking life? Let it come on its own? Yeah, because everyone ends up happily married having put in zero effort to understanding romance or relationships. Maybe you'll have that high paying job and stumble into a gold-digger. Fantastic. Maybe you'll share a sad story and get pity sex.

A lot of famous comedians started in Improv, where the literal goal is learning to be funny. So don't give me shit about "you can't learn X as a skill." Everything is a skill!

...

Then this fucking guy gives a list of "how to get women" and his list is shit. "Going to the gym", seriously? I know a gym virgin, who doesn't want to learn game, or put in any effort because, "someone will find him attractive".

"Live a great fucking life" ... What if I want to fuck chicks, how do I do that exactly?

Fuck that guy.

The mistake is asking someone naturally good at something how they do it. Of course he can't tell you! Of course his answer is "don't even try."

Xanarxses · 2018-08-11T04:00:43+00:00

so are you getting laid or what?

Op I am all down for self improvement and being genuine. And I genuinely don't really want someone in my life right now. I genuinely don't really want to be my real self. Since I genuinely don't want to get to know any more women.

I mean if I could say stupid pickup line and be a fake person, get laid, and then leave, that would be ideal. If there is an easy way to do it I'd like to know. I am reading models and it is like. That is cool, but I don't want to show my vulenerabilities to a woman. God no. I am fine on my own.

coldbrew18 · 2018-08-11T06:51:02+00:00

Damnit, I just lost the game.

The object of the game is to forget about the game. If you think about the game you lose. If you lose you have to announce to everyone that you have lost. Everyone who heard you is now playing the game. You have 30 mins to forget about the game, and the game starts over.

jojolebo · 2018-08-11T07:08:14+00:00

Isn't this common sense? Why do you think the quote "Fake it till you make it" exists? Also you can the most high-status guy ever, but do you know how to display it to the girl? That's what game is for; displaying what you have. So yes, become your best self, but also learn game.

ToxicRocketry · 2018-08-10T21:58:35+00:00

Yet another ‘work on yourself and girls will come to you’ post. Yawn.

Look buddy, working on yourself does one thing - it improves your baseline. It’s similar to martial arts - higher level of physical fitness will make it easier but you won’t kick a black belt’s ass without actually learning the art. With girls, this involves actually communicating with them in a sexual way.

You don’t even have to be the best version of yourself to get girls, however much this gets bandied about here. Trying to be better certainly helps, though.

You just pissed off your buddy so much with your whining that he gave you generic self-improvement advice as aggressively as possible to get rid of you.

secretmonkeyassassin · 2018-08-10T23:30:29+00:00

This sub has become just an echo chamber of the same five or six ideas being updated cyclically in an endless loop. This post contained nothing new

Jaereth · 2018-08-11T04:31:30+00:00

God fuck this stupid larp I knew it wasnt a text and OP just wrote the whole thing as some virgin fantasy of who he wants to be before I even got to the “edit” where THE FUCKIN MAN HIMSELF SHOWS UP! and proceeds to yell at us in person! Oh boy! Such a good lesson too! Be as attractive as possible and be high value. Good thing he rolled in with that. I havent heard that for the last 15 years in these communities. I think your “friend” might be on to something here

jojolebo · 2018-08-11T07:06:21+00:00

Isn't this common sense? Why do you think the quote "Fake it till you make it" exists? Also you can the most high-status guy ever, but do you know how to display it to the girl? That's what game is for; displaying what you have. So yes, become your best self, but also learn game.

Create_Repeat · 2018-08-11T03:32:43+00:00

I.e. Models by Mark Manson

hangloosekid · 2018-08-11T05:30:37+00:00

Truth be told

AllLove007 · 2018-08-11T14:57:40+00:00

Work on doing things your love and that make you happy... The happier you are in life, the more generally confident you become... People will gravitate towards you when you become happier with your life, so work on doing the things that make you happy and the rest will follow.

Tr1pfire · 2018-08-11T15:41:08+00:00

I agree with all of this except the reading a book part. There are some books that are so valuable to picking up. Just not the ones that Address pickup directly. A book like the 6 pillars of self-esteem.

Edit:books name

Visualize_ · 2018-08-11T19:47:46+00:00

I think he is spot on with genuinely becoming a more confident person and not just trying to emulate being high value. In terms of the comments to learning game from PUAs, the paradigm of game is pretty much exactly what he is preaching these days, and I guess outsiders still think of pickup as depicted in books like "The Game" by Strauss. Pick up was definitely very gimmicky oriented and it probably does eventually lead to genuine confidence, but now you see a huge emphasis on establishing that foundation at the beginning, which is why everyone reccomends "Models" by Manson now.

Also, pick up is a streamlined process of how to get better socially. The key to all of this is practice and it's pretty much a battle of guidance vs no guidance. You can reach your goals without reading any pickup material, but it's very likely a much slower process because understanding women isn't always obvious.

hee-holdthefuckup · 2018-08-12T11:52:49+00:00

Yeah, this is all fine and dandy but if you're not social this means nothing.

I invest every day in becoming the best of who I can be, but it doesn't involve other people. All of my hobbies don't involve others, and as a result I meet no-one new.

Why should I go out of my way to be social if it's not what I want to do?

rvinio · 2018-08-17T11:56:13+00:00

OP, great stuff. Your friend is 100% right. Took me 5 years to realise this...only after I read Models.

Paltenburg · 2018-08-23T08:56:11+00:00

Idunno... I guess you gotta find your own way.

I read and saw a lot of seduction advice, and some stuff was definately insightfull (RSD, 60Seconds).

About framing for example, you don't make that up yourself: you read about it, and then you understand it, and it clicks.

Moreover: Some seduction advice is exactly equal to what your friend is saying.

It's good to read up about it, just make sure the tips and advice "click" with yourself, instead of mindlessly doing what someone says.

transoceanicdeath · 2018-08-27T06:41:16+00:00

damn, that's some tough love.

however, i take issue with the assumption that it's either-or, like you can't be taking care of your shit and developing game.

also, this whole "just be a successful, attractive man and game will flow naturally" is not true for some people. social skills are skills that need to be developed. i actually don't practice game, but i am a confident (on a certain, fundamental level), self-employed, educated, fit, 34 year old man. i have accomplishments i'm proud of, life experience, have traveled, was in a relationship for 10 years so i'm very confident with sex and actually physically seducing a woman. i do all kind of shit. annnnd, it doesn't show at all. i come across as a timid, weak, individual with nothing to offer. it's only after spending a lot of time with me that people seem to realize there's more going on there. a girl last night told me that i look like a light breeze would blow me over. i have deadlifted 415 pounds, which isn't world class, but it's hardly breeze-blow-me-over levels of fortitude.

your friend, or you, whoever is reading this, are probably a type A personality or something.

pick-up works as a short-term solution

okay, so what? that's all i want. i was in a relationship for 10 years. that was a long term solution to a short-term problem of needing someone to fuck every once in a while. all that shit left me with was a damaged conception of love, friendship, relationships, and a lot of pain and heartache. actually, not a solution to anything, except how to completely waste a decade.

but the reason you need pick up lines and skills is because who you are as a person isn’t enough

no, it's because people care way more about how good you are at selling yourself than who you actually are as a person. just look at modern marketing for everything. do most people listen to the best music, eat the best food, wear the most well-made clothing? no. most people take whatever is sold to them.

sorry, i can't wait around for the perfect person to come along. they are few and far between.

and 99.99% of people aren't putting their true selves out there. in fact, if you over-share, most people are immediately turned off.

hostergaard · 2018-08-11T08:24:25+00:00

Improving your life is a good idea, trouble is, its not actionable content. See, how does one go about it? Before getting into seduction I spend years mucking around not knowing what to do cause bettering yourself is simply too vague. I had no idea where to begin, what to do, how to do it.

What helped me the most was watching a early PUA video of a guy walking up to a girl on the street and telling her she looked cute and had a conversation with her. That helped me more than anything, it was that simple, just go up to her and tell her she was cute. It was something I could do. Now, it have a been a long journey since then, and I still have a lot to learn, but getting that one practical example that I could do what was helped me the most and kicked of my journey. Setting an overarching goal is fine, but you need to give practical advice. Pick up lines, skills, and techniques are just that, practical methods that you can try out and help you discover yourself. They are tools to reach that goal, keys to becoming who you want to be. You learn by doing, and this gives you stuff to do that will help you learn.

2018-08-10T23:22:21+00:00

This is silly and wanna-be badass

2018-08-11T04:05:09+00:00

Does anyone have online dating playbook 2.0 by Derek rake

BonvivantNamedDom · 2018-08-11T13:05:55+00:00

Pick up by its core means exactly what your post said.. fake it til you make it just temporarily to get your mind set for yourself, whilst you work on yourself

VelociraptorReptar · 2018-08-11T14:01:57+00:00

You’ve changed my life! All those porn videos will pay off now that I don’t give no fucks about no game. I’m a big bad wolf cause I am and that’s that!!

2018-08-11T16:02:53+00:00

This is bang on

2018-08-11T17:13:54+00:00

Dang. I lost the game.

chronosthetitan · 2018-08-12T03:05:46+00:00

Confidence isn’t only key, you can be beta and confident. Confidence is a respected trait, but not a emotionally affective trait that aids in actually getting the job done.

fcukymleif · 2018-08-10T21:13:07+00:00

Bad advice. Absolutely zero help aside from a momentary burst of motivation. He learned pickup like everyone else does - talking to girls. No one credible in the pickup industry argues that reading one book without applying it and actually talking to women is gonna work. That's dumb. he hasn't done his research.

2018-08-10T21:49:21+00:00

This dude smashes pussy regularly

IIHotelYorba · 2018-08-10T22:53:11+00:00

Not sure if this post is from someone who doesn’t understand what natural game is, or another one of those assholes who did natural game and now wants to act like they’re better than all the people who are still learning.

CatontheRoad · 2018-08-11T00:13:40+00:00

I lost the game. Fuck you.

throwitawayagainyay · 2018-08-10T19:15:00+00:00

It's a lucrative business

BurkeAbroad · 2018-08-11T08:28:19+00:00

Fake it til you make it.

Using canned material is a way to learn better social communication skills. Since you aren't focusing on what to say, you get to focus on the interaction and more subtle nuances that you'd normally miss by being in your own head.

But still. That's a good text. Good friend, too. Honesty like that is hard to come by.

SpinPlates · 2018-08-10T22:14:01+00:00

Yes yes yes!!

Learned "game" is bullshit. All you need is the gym and some hobbies you are passionate about. Everything else will come naturally assuming you start your gym and hobbies early enough.

This is why I tell highschool kids on here to not worry about girls at the moment. Get jacked and learn to do a 360 shove it down a 5 set and by 21 you'll be rolling in pussy.

Gym and hobbies inspire confidence. Real confidence. Not the fake it till you make it bullshit you read on here. Real confidence snowballs into other aspects of your life.

Title	[deleted by user]
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	961
Comments	154
Date	August 10, 2018 6:45 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/969o4b/i_was_obsessed_with_learning_the_game_years_back/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/deleted-by-user.1451468 https://theredarchive.com/post/1451468

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