Do muscles matter?

sapo916 · 2012-09-02T20:45:31+00:00

They help

HeroicPrinny · 2012-09-02T21:11:48+00:00

Of course looks matter. There's a myth propagated in the seduction community that looks don't matter at all, and this is simply not true. Looks don't matter to women as much as they do to men, but saying that a girl won't prefer a tall, built, handsome guy over a short, fat, ugly guy (assuming that they both have the same quality of game) is just wrong.

Of course, if you're not gifted in the looks department, you can absolutely develop your game to make up for it. A short, fat, ugly guy with good game will probably have more success than a male model with horrible game.

Even so, every budding PUA should be spending time at the gym. Not only will it make you more attractive physically, but it boosts your confidence, which is just as attractive. The way I see it, every trip I make to the gym, every set and rep I do, increases the quality and quantity of women that are available to me.

geenomike · 2012-09-02T22:16:28+00:00

As a dude that has been working out hard the past 9 months, and wasnt exactly 'out of shape' before.... it makes a really big difference.

padgo · 2012-09-02T21:13:02+00:00

being in good shape gives you confidence, which in turn makes you feel better about yourself, in turn makes you more attractive, its simple really.

squarehouse · 2012-09-02T20:34:00+00:00

Interesting video from Roosh. My comments:

I think a lot of guys are coming at this from the perspective of being skinny/ectomorph, and if this is you I'd follow Roosh's advice. Roosh himself seems like an ectomorph who has put some muscle on, and it seems like a good look. Basically, all of your gains turns into definition. Situps turn into visible abs.
But don't make the mistake I made. If you're heavier set: endomorph or fatty mesomorph (me), you should concentrate on losing the fat first. Your BF% should be less than 15%, then start bulking up. Women don't really give you any credit for being fat and jacked, like an off-season body builder. Also, women are primarily attracted to a good looking face, and if you are bad in this area, you'll be surprised how much fat changes the look of your face.
A lot of women are attracted to muscles, of this I have no doubt. When I first started working out at the gym, there was a woman who was always looking at my biceps whenever I was working them. But there were other women there, and she was the only one doing this. "Biceps" themselves are probably more of a fetish thing with women, but it's common enough that it will work.
Something I've noticed, especially with mesomorphs, is that there are probably body parts where you are just naturally strong. Basically, this is just where you naturally started building muscle without putting any real effort into it. For me it's my legs. I've known other guys who simply have naturally strong arms, or a naturally strong back. Generally, I'll get complements on my legs, but not really on my arms, no matter how big my arms get. Similarly, my legs are hard, but I could never get my arms to be really hard in the same way. Something to keep in mind.
Biceps might be more of a fetish for women, but I think back and butt are just more common attractors. Women just like to rub my back, because it looks strong, but it probably doesn't feel the way they wanted it too.
A lot of girls are into the skinny/lanky look. I think this is just representative of the fact that women are generally attracted to status and signs of status. Our economy is becoming knowledge/information based, and the nerdy look/body type is becoming more popular. I don't mean looking like a forever alone nerd, but being a mesomorph doesn't actually give you all the advantages that it used to.
He has an interesting comment about women in the U.S. not caring as much about status/money as about just being hot. Honestly, this is probably both a locality thing and a demographic thing. I think women are always interested in signs of status, and this isn't really a conscious thing. The only difference is that body type has become a sign of status in the United States.

thesorrow312 · 2012-09-03T00:10:18+00:00

The only people who say that they don't, are the ones who are too lazy to go to the gym, and are only looking for justification for not looking good. They want others to tell them that its OK.

If you cannot make time, or get off your ass to go to the gym 3 times a week for an hour, then how can you expect a woman to want to spend her time with you?

No girls want a man who has a body that is hardly any different than theirs. When you've been out drinking with a girl, and towards the end of the night she wants to grab your arm when you are walking, you want her to be impressed.

Shits just evolution.

2012-09-02T23:30:37+00:00

The only strength that matters, is strength of character. Muscles don't matter, but they can only help. You spend 6 months training your body and dieting with the discipline it requires and you will have a better physique, allowing you to fit into clothes better and increasing your physical attraction a notch.

But the true reward from hitting the gym is like a hidden easter egg in your life, it's different for everyone and you won't expect it. For me, by the end of it(although it never truly ends), i didn't even care how strong i was or how much muscle i had put on. I had gained new found confidence and belief in myself, knowing that for 6 months i gave something my all and kept going.

So no, muscles don't matter, but if you work towards them, you wont regret it.

EDIT: And also, i reached the end of my 6 months, but you keep going, there will be areas you want to train more, and you will want to maintain your new found physique, so it will never really end, and i doubt you will want it to.

porkchop87 · 2012-09-03T00:24:21+00:00

Unfortunately, guys will notice and admire your muscles more than any woman ever will. Also, most women don't truly appreciate the time and effort it takes to have a great physique.

Lift weights to boost your own confidence and become less self-conscious. If you are already very confident and are not self-conscious, muscles will do little for you. They don't really help that much in terms of becoming more physically attractive to women. It doesn't work that way. Girls don't think like guys. In fact, muscles may work against you in some cases. If your physique gives you confidence then it's the confidence working for you, not the physical appearance. Most guys get this confused and think it's their physique that gets them women.

However, there is an exception. Muscles will help you (a lot) with online dating. I've realized now, pictures are what make or brake your success online. Being ripped and having photos of that on your profile will get you a lot of responses...

But ultimately... if you can, or want to, lift weights.

blackfox026 · 2012-09-02T22:47:24+00:00

The thing is, it makes a huge difference in your own mind, and so it makes a huge difference. People tend to neglect the inner game effects of working out; essentially, it boosts your energy levels while releasing large amounts of chemicals that make you feel confident and euphoric.

One thing I've noticed is that men respond differently as well. You can be a total pacifist, but you're much less likely to be put down/AMOG'd if you look like you can kick someone's ass. As disappointing as it is, people will subconsciously respect you more if you're in better shape than them. Often times women will find themselves attracted to the male of highest status in the group, which is an easier position to find yourself in when you're more built.

edubation · 2012-09-02T22:07:29+00:00

If you have to ask yourself "Should I get muscles so women like me?", you've already lost.

You should want to be big and strong and have muscles because you are a man. And a strong man is more useful and confident in general. It means you can do more shit, and handle yourself better in general. And guess what, that confidence draws women. Conversely, making decisions about your health and fitness because girls might or might not care is supplicating. And unattractive.

PUAbox · 2012-09-02T20:52:04+00:00

Some thoughts. Physical appearance helps game a lot but it is not the only thing. Agree with Roosh that it is getting much more important. Clearly the most important thing is to not be fat or overweight. Nice clothing is not designed for overweight people, and really it isn't made for huge bodybuilder types. Since your genetics are the primary determinant of what you look like, it really doesn't matter if you "prefer" to be jacked or toned. If you work out and keep reasonably lean, you will express your phenotype.

SpookyKG · 2012-09-02T22:32:24+00:00

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yokhai · 2012-09-03T02:21:19+00:00

I like how he talked about media and movies shaping the expectations of girls and I definitely know this is a factor. Women are told from a very young age that they are the prize and there is a knight with perfect teeth and great abs who can cook fight and hold doors waiting on her when she hits 25.

StickyMindset · 2012-09-02T20:37:38+00:00

Just do some workout, it will give you a healthy look. Be passioned about who you are and what you like to do; those two combined = matter.

Vecoma · 2012-09-03T01:21:54+00:00

Abs and big arms are basically the man equivalent of tits and ass.

avonv · 2012-09-02T20:43:01+00:00

if you want to break it down mathematically, i'd venture to posit that:

group A: 50 % of women prefer a toned guy (not jacked, not skinny, not fat)
group B: 30 % of women prefer a jacked guy (MMA/football type)
group C: 20 % of women prefer a skinny guy (hipster/emo type)

so by getting jacked, you are going to attract a different kind of woman, but probably at the expense of appearing less attractive to the mainstream woman (possibly write you off as a douche/moron right away). it is an inherent system of checks and balances if you will, that by appealing to group B, for instance, you will appear less attractive in general to group A/C for example.

best to just think what your own ideal body type would be in your mind, and strive for that, rather than basing it on what you think other people want to see you as. i think you made a good point about being lazy if you don't go to the gym, especially in this modern era with all the lifting info / accessibility of gyms

FRiver · 2012-09-02T21:26:03+00:00

Surprised that this is getting traction on seddit. Of course it helps game to be in decent shape (ie not fat), for reasons ranging from self-confidence to signalling a healthy lifestyle, but the idea of 'getting big' just to pick up is ridiculous. Developing social skills should be the first priority. The girls who, after speaking to me, would reject me based on my build would probably be the girls I wouldn't go for long-term. I'll stick to trying to get in best shape for my health and the sports I play, not to impress drunk chicks.

30vanquish · 2012-09-02T23:42:39+00:00

Just like anything else: Style, confidence, whatever else. Muscles matter as one of the many factors that add a positive to your whole persona.

Gareth321 · 2012-09-03T00:41:21+00:00

That guy is in amazing shape. To hear him go on about how he doesn't really have big muscles is crazy.

PUAdept · 2012-09-03T00:42:47+00:00

Overall fitness is one piece of the puzzle. Most women don't go for guys that look like overinflated balloons. Olympic swimmers seem to be pretty well regarded in terms of fitness; lean and firm.

osm0sis · 2012-09-03T01:14:29+00:00

Muscular arms on a man are the equivalent of nice tits on a girl: Not always completely necessary to be sexy, but definitely doesn't hurt.

jpozzed · 2012-09-03T04:03:09+00:00

From a biology/evolution perspective, of course females look for males with attributes to protect offspring (muscles/size and social status).

Viend · 2012-09-03T04:59:35+00:00

It's a double edged sword. Women aren't interested if you bulk up in a gym and show off your pumped up muscles, "trying to impress".

Yet, women are attracted to masculine physique: height (which cannot be obtained at a gym nor via surgery), reasonable muscularity (strong back and balanced muscularity is more key here than the "pecs and biceps" favored by gay men). Broad shoulders, narrow hips.

It all helps. But not as directly and not quite in the way men expect. It's more important to be fit overall and have a good posture, than to have the biggest pecs and biceps of the lot.

Try swimming, HIIT, squats & deadlifts, and martial arts instead of repetitive gym machine motions. Full body exercise does a body good.

Xeonit · 2012-09-03T23:52:34+00:00

Its all about your mind and your look. Refine your mind here, adjust your look in /r/malefashionadvice.

Ledatru · 2012-09-02T21:12:30+00:00

Cant watch the vid bc im on cellphone

But muscles do help

They certainly cant hurt

But obviously you dont need em

I mean if there's a wheelchair guy PUA then that just goes to show you that you can be good despite your body type

But it helps

Viend · 2012-09-02T21:23:58+00:00

Don't go too crazy investing effort in just one thing. I can tell you that how you dress (/r/malefashionadvice) is worth at least as much as how big your muscles are (assuming you aren't very fat). A well dressed skinny-fat guy will do better than a toned guy in crap clothing, if they have the same face. Spend time at improving both.

2012-09-03T01:58:21+00:00

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naoptovke · 2012-09-03T07:05:49+00:00

Is it weird that he still feels the need to validate himself to the audience? "My bed is over here. Yeah, I already had a couple of girls on it."

pepsifan · 2012-09-03T08:03:07+00:00

After watching this video, I don't think so. NSFW http://videarn.com/video.php?id=204639

2012-09-03T10:24:08+00:00

Nope. Big muscles look ridiculous. Any woman other than a wasted skank will think about how dull you must be if your idea of a hobby is continually lifting something really heavy. Plus, a neck wider than the average thigh isn't an attractive look.

Viend · 2012-09-02T22:32:57+00:00

As much as people who take their vitamins regularly have fewer health problems.

Despite having little to no benefit, the people who are good at remembering to do little things to take care of themselves daily also find themselves more self-aware and serious about their health. It's the exact same thing with body building. People who set goals and grind through the things when they don't have the energy or courage are very attractive to women.

Nj_all_day · 2012-09-02T22:46:01+00:00

So I'm fucked. Got it.

uberafc · 2012-09-02T20:37:54+00:00

this goes against a lot of what RSD says. Not sure what to think anymore. A lot of people say it matters/just as many say it doesn't.

2012-09-03T14:10:17+00:00

No one's going to read this but it's got to be said.

The guy in the video is slightly depressive and a bit deluded. The difference in opinion may be because I am European though I doubt it.

The only positive muscles give you (according to this guy) is that girls may approach you, in a club, slightly more often than a guy who doesn't have muscles.

I see no positives to having muscles and going and speaking to a girl, or in having muscles in situations where you naturally meet girls (like a dinner party or through friends, or prior knowledge). As the later three are the main way I meet girls I don't see how being huge will help me.

In fact being huge can be a deterrent to girls, not because you're overly attractive but more because huge guys fit into a sterotype as much as a black man wearing a cap with beats by dre on. I'm personally not the huge guy stereo type.

Fitness is very important, but being HUGE so that it's visible even with clothes on is not...

Title	Do muscles matter?
Author	rmbarnes
Upvotes	149
Comments	134
Date	September 2, 2012 7:55 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/z8rx3/do_muscles_matter/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/do-muscles-matter.1338458 https://theredarchive.com/post/1338458

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