My (22F) thoughts on nice guys

saito200 · 2017-08-27T21:50:58+00:00

Yes, I believe you're right on all your points.

It's a matter of naming. What you call "nice guy" I would call "good guy" and what you call "harmless guy" I call "nice guy". On seeing your title and 1st paragraph I was wondering but once you define what nice guy is I agree. I think maybe the community TRP and others might use same naming as me, this may lead to some confusion.

jake_megabyte · 2017-08-27T23:39:12+00:00

Very true. The problem is the "nice guy" has emotional pain that is making him act in a validation seeking way. Nice guys can become amazing and powerful men, they just need to heal a lot of bullshit. They have to do the work themselves though.

NewAndExistingUser · 2017-08-27T23:05:11+00:00

In my opinion don't let others walk over you, but don't feel desperate or like you have to do so. A lion doesn't think about a vulture.

If it's a stranger, like the new guy at work ate a slice of pizza you and a friend ordered because you left it in the break room. That's an accident, don't be a dick, be chill about it.

If a friend makes a comment about how stupid something is on you, own it and tell them they couldn't pull it off.

Yeah don't let people walk all over you, but getting angry or getting into a fight screams that you're insecure and unstable. Don't let things wreck your day, don't even think about the little things. When things are serious then you cut people off, don't let yourself be insulted or slighted regularly, handle it or end things with those people.

2017-08-27T21:32:15+00:00

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JefemanG · 2017-08-27T23:43:45+00:00

There's a huge difference between being a nice guy and being a pussy. A lot of guys seem to miss that point and think to get girls you need to be nice and submissive/skittish...

If you can be confident in yourself, nice, and willing to go after what you want, you'll get much farther than the guys who are assholes. Guarantee it.

mxrz74 · 2017-08-27T21:23:54+00:00

Very interesting!!

RavenLordx · 2017-08-27T21:35:55+00:00

I really like your thoughts and I think I needed to hear those things right now, so as a start, thank you. Yes it might be something that has been said before, but your way of analyzing this subject made me realise some things I had missed. I think it cuts down to the point and clears up all the confusion about this particular issue a bit.

barnun · 2017-08-28T04:22:45+00:00

Not true, women only hold power if you give it to them. We live in a cultural paradigm that says men pursue, which puts women in the role of filtering and selecting, but where a man acts from within himself makes a big difference as to the power balance of any given connection. Women desire men, therefore they do not always hold power. They usually hide their desire up front due to the same cultural paradigm, but it's there, they have stake in the Game same as we do.

If a man approaches women with the mindset that they hold power, he will disempower himself and reinforce his preconceived reality. A man who knows he is desired by women is not pursuing women as much as testing to find out which women desire him. He is therefore actually filtering and selecting. From that perspective, he can be seen to have more power because he has the leverage to initiate. Most women don't initiate due to the cultural paradigm, and can feel disempowered in that way.

I've turned down women who wanted sex with me. I've had women tell me they can't resist me. I've also of course had plenty of women reject me. It cuts both ways.

aznology · 2017-08-28T00:04:43+00:00

Lol exactly this I think as a person who has been through all phases of the nice guy act. My last and current form is good. Feels good feels like living for myself and telling others to fuck off. Here's what I learned, be nice to everyone: not putting up a fascade or anything just be genuinely nice for humanity. Like don't go out of the way nice like hug a grandma or something but open doors and stuff when convient. Don't fucking run around opening then that's wierd. Now, don't let people walk over you. Shut that shit down quick! And exert control / dominance where needed be. Don't let anyone including women walk over you. Remember women are like a a dime a dozen 3.5 billion women out there you have options. Pick a good one throw out the rotten ones

big_blue_baloon · 2017-08-28T04:28:27+00:00

Two questions:

What qualifies as punishable disrespect?
How to punish it?

barnun · 2017-08-28T03:19:33+00:00

It's not really about "niceness." It's about negative core beliefs. Many core beliefs are not conscious, at least until we dig down and ferret them out. Some I've had, confronted and shifted over time:

-Women are better than men

-I have to make women like me (they won't do so naturally)

-Men want sex more than women

-Women always want committed relationships

-Women hold all the power in sex and relationships

-It's disrespectful to show sexual interest

-Women will see my insecurity if I hit on them and reject me for it

-I need a woman to accept all of who I am to feel worthy

Finally, just recently I had a breakthrough about only owning my part in every relationship and interaction, and it was like the final puzzle piece to a new level of internal freedom. Looking back, it's crazy how many unhealthy beliefs I've held, and the most important part is that for most of my life I had NO IDEA that's where I was operating from.

I'm a nice guy, I always will be. I believe in openness, respect, communication, equality, I'm nurturing and helpful by nature and I will go all out for someone I love. I've just had to learn that I deserve all of that too, but that no one is obligated to give it to me, and it's not something I need to or should try to earn from anyone.

napes22 · 2017-08-28T03:59:18+00:00

I agree with some of your points, mainly that you need to actually be a nice person but also have confidence and integrity. But in many cases, women your age do not actually want "nice guys." When they are ready for them, they will seek them out.

Freevoulous · 2017-08-28T06:38:59+00:00

You basically described the difference between a Nice Guy and Good Guy.

Ducharbaine · 2017-08-28T17:24:12+00:00

Semantics. Not an epiphany. The nice guy puts women on a pedestal and is thrilled when a woman graces him with her favor. He holds doors for her because he wants her to like him. The good man holds the door, too, but it's because he wants to be the kind of man who holds the door not because he seeks praise. The woman can tell the difference.

braintrejo · 2017-08-27T22:05:30+00:00

When I saw the title and you being a girl I expected yet another defense towards nice guys, but I think you're right about this one. Nice guys can have emotional problems they think they can solve by being even nicer.

On the other hand, I don't believe you want a guy being always nice despite him having self-respect. Girls are also attracted to dominant and slightly agressive guys who gives them some hard pounding without saying sorry.

purplestuff11 · 2017-08-28T00:40:04+00:00

I think we all know this but have different names for it. What you call harmless guys I call nice guys and what you call nice guys I call them things like a man's man or a chill guy. Your points are good though. Being kind isn't bad it's being a doormat that's bad.

Thecrow1981 · 2017-08-28T07:38:29+00:00

I think this about sums it up perfectly.

zoomzoom1998 · 2017-08-28T08:56:29+00:00

great stuff

Hector_Castillo · 2017-08-28T14:39:52+00:00

At the same time, a nice girl is the parallel of a nice guy. She treats her man in a way that makes him proud to be a man. She doesn't shame him for his masculinity. But similarly, she can exert her feminine control when she needs to. If she doesn't believe he is treating her the way she wants, she should calmly voice her concerns. And if he doesn't agree/listen, she cleanly ends the relationship without guilt-tripping or causing drama.

These women are very rare. Far rarer than "nice guys."

Nice guys aren't nice guys. They're weak and use their niceness as a token. They hope that enough nice-tokens and they'll get pussies. At least "bad boys" are honest about what they want, but since their honesty, in all aspects, is outside the norm, they are labeled "bad." But mostly, they're simply honest.

Act like a man, and be treated like a man.

Sure.

If a girl doesn't respond to this model in your behaviour, she is not worth your time.

You're British, I see.

Broad strokes about certain women not being worth your time...yes, it's good motivation, but not applicable. We men like empirical, specific discussions.

For instance, you meet a girl who's got her wall up. It's not because she's a bitch, but because she needs to have this wall up to keep creeps/pussies out. It screens men passively. Nice strong guy walks up, is nice to her, and meets some resistance. He walks away. "She's not worth his time," he thinks.

Guy who's got a bit more of a ribald edge walks up, compliments her, and she gives him a quick look then returns to her drink.

"Are you always like this?"

She turns back to him and gives him that look of "game on." The seduction ensues.

You are saying this, I believe, with your "nice guys need to be able to be monsters when they need," but we need more specificity.

Other than that, great post. Lots of guys in the seduction community are a bit resistant to female advice, as they believe the fish can't give the fisherman advice on catching fish, but they forget that the fish *want** to be caught.*

Veganpuncher · 2017-08-28T17:01:49+00:00

TL:DR - Do not mistake my kindness for weakness.

Great post. Thank you.

Wowistheword · 2017-08-28T17:37:59+00:00

Upvoted for JBP. I totally agree with your analysis.

speakingofsegues · 2017-08-28T20:31:20+00:00

And when we stand up for ourselves, we get further shit tests and blamed for "not being cool" about it (ie not just taking their shit). Especially when being accused of something someone is not, that shit doesn't fly, and I'm not going to let it in order to be seen as "being cool about it". And if that makes the girl walk away, then good riddance.

Fuckeveryone222 · 2017-08-29T06:14:33+00:00

Yeah there's a difference between being a 'nice guy' and an actual nice guy

A 'nice guy' is obviously just being nice to get laid. His only positive trait is that he can be nice. What these types of people don't understand is that being nice is a bare minimum requirement. That's like walking in for a sysadmin job and saying "I know how to turn on and off a computer". Congrats, so does 95% of the population.

Im good with women and I'm an actual nice guy. My generosity isn't my only trait, and I'm nice to everyone and don't expect a thing in return. I'm also witty and funny and know how to dress. I also generally enjoy being the center of attention so I'm highly sociable. My traits are genuine and not obviously being faked with the intention of getting in someone's pants. In fact I rarely approach a women with the intention of just getting in their pants in the first place, if I like them after the initial introduction and getting to know them, then I just go for it

luaudesign · 2017-08-29T11:10:15+00:00

It's all about inner game. Guys aren't pretending to be nice. They are being themselves. It's just that they're niceness is coming from the wrong place: putting women on a pedestal.

kalel2864 · 2017-08-29T21:50:26+00:00

See but you misunderstand that the implicit definition of nice guy by societal standards is emasculated and by "nice" they think it means subservient. The real challenge is changing the stigma.

OnlyOnceThreetimes · 2017-08-27T23:01:26+00:00

Basically be nice, but dont be a pussy. The typical "nice guy" that gets friendzoned is a pussy.

masterp21 · 2017-08-28T00:40:07+00:00

Good synopsis. Hopefully the faggy moderators don't take your post down for mentioning Jordan Peterson (I've seen them do it before). Thanks for sharing :)

live4failure · 2017-08-28T05:14:50+00:00

Its all confusing to me. I act with modesty and idgaf about anything. I'm fucking ripped, own a boat, am a successful student, and do all the coolest shit there is and still don't get attraction from women. (For example for summer break I sailed in the pacific for weeks and learned to solo, travelled constantly, lost weight to finish a glorious 8-pack of abs, got a new job and have a big dick XD) I'm only 21 and feel like I'm mentally 5 years ahead of most of my friends when it comes to having my shit together. But I can't get women to talk to me like they seem to other dudes. They don't respond to questions or ice breakers, its only my own bullshit. As you can see, I've got plenty to discuss and I do a lot of shit. I can even involve them firsthand. I seem to attract bitchy/crazy ones or girls that flake. I've been with older women (almost 30s) with great success. One told me she would marry me if I was older, another said she wanted to fuck until she ruined me.

Older women seem to know whats up and know when I mean business. They also keep the conversation flowing instead of just dropping out. Girls my age apparently don't know shit. They never have shit to say except "Hey". What do I do?

Tl;dr---I'm a cool mf. Good looking, blessed individual. Sometimes lazy but confident. How can i get a stronger attraction from women (19-23) that are my age? They never seem to have shit to say but want to talk. Is it maybe a physical/sexual thing I'm not tuning into? Should I just be asking them out straight up and then make some moves?

thoroughlythrown · 2017-08-29T00:04:07+00:00

Being the "harmless guy" is something I struggle with. I let people "walk all over me" because I genuinely don't care most of the time. However, I'm also often afraid to stray from "safe" topics or express interest.

standard_revolution · 2017-08-28T01:11:19+00:00

By saying that nice guys treat women gentlier than men do you think one should actually treat women better than men?

Serious question

DirtyProjector · 2017-08-28T05:38:58+00:00

Totally agree with this. Funny story - this came up for me just the other day with a group of men. I met 2 guys on a bus in Europe - father and son traveling around, father in his late 60s or 70s. This wise old man actually said to me women like assholes and guys who treat them like shit. I was shocked. Other two guys with us agreed. Women do not like being treated like shit. Some women may have low self confidence or a love map that attracts them to avoidant abusive men, but most women of value and women in general don't want a guy like that. If you have a man who is confident and has self work and is actually nice and kind (a killer combo) then almost any women would die for that.

galactic_fury · 2017-08-28T05:44:20+00:00

There has been a lot of material and discussion on seduction forums about the distinction b/w a "nice guy" and guys who think they are "nice". Most of the latter subconsciously believe in some kind of "trade": i.e. if they're nice, helpful etc. the woman will sleep with them. And when that doesn't happen, they get mad/disappointed/disenchanted.

The problem in this scenario (others have commented on this as well) is that its just not how things work. If a guy wants a sexual relationship with a girl, he should indicate that in the many many safe ways there are to do so, not assume it will just happen. But these ways do require a certain amount of courage and many of these nice guys don't have that courage. So they keep trying being nice guys, never learning how to genuinely and honestly communicate sexual intent.

Vincent_Marcus · 2017-08-28T09:03:29+00:00

I think "polite guys" would better define your version of a "nice guy".

TheIceReaver · 2017-08-28T15:40:04+00:00

Essentially: Being nice includes being nice to yourself. Nurturing yourself, understanding yourself, striving to grow and thrive are all as fantastic as being someone who loves doing these things for others. It ultimately just feels good to be this way.

Dima_de_Trebizond · 2017-08-28T16:00:51+00:00

The Art of Manliness has a good article on this topic. TL;DR: No need use from being good if you don't have what it takes to be bad.

EmberTraveler · 2017-08-28T16:38:33+00:00

I agree

I'm a nice guy who is successful with ladies to a healthy extent. Normally a lady labels someone as "nice guy" if he's boring or doesn't take risks/doesn't have spark to him.

This lady called me nice but we hooked up, it's really like you said... there is a good chunk of pretend nice guys who are just nice to get social approval.

SocietalEngineering · 2017-08-28T16:50:17+00:00

What do you mean, you don't believe in shit tests?

Meaning like you yourself don't conduct them, or you don't think that anyone does them?

Because they are done subconsciously - women mostly have no clue that they are even running them.

AtZisa · 2017-08-28T19:42:05+00:00

Been watching Jordan Peterson since I saw him on Joe Rogan's podcast. Highly recommend him to anyone trying to better themselves, romantically or otherwise.

Your points are spot on and are similar to what I've been trying to accomplish. I just don't feel right putting down someone who has been nothing but kind to me. At the same time though disrespect should never be tolerated, whether you're a man or a woman.

crazy_greek_panda · 2017-08-28T22:52:19+00:00

Thanks for the post and I completely agree with everything you said!

You mentioned Jordan Peterson and I was curious if you have any specific video/lecture in mind because I haven't found anything relevant. Thanks!

S3542U · 2017-08-27T22:33:01+00:00

Semantics.

/thread

_valtiel_ · 2017-08-28T03:52:00+00:00

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_Jake_The_Snake_ · 2017-08-28T04:37:49+00:00

Nearly sidebar material right here. I'd like to see something confronting nice guys in denial. Like a call to better themselves. Some guys will look at this and think, oh so I need to act more passive aggressively or more like a rude jerk who is just speaking his mind and asserting himself. Thats up to debate but I think going into that deeper will clear up some of the questions people have about how to act and react to others.

Redsfan192 · 2017-08-28T03:43:11+00:00

Except most women in our generation don't like masculine guys at all. They prefer these weak, feminine men these days, and I've even met Generation X'ers, Baby Boomers, and the Silent Generation agree with me on this. I blame it on this whole "We're all the same" gender movement(Which isn't biologically true). So, I disagree with this, because of the simple fact a masculine man who stands up for himself is actually a turn-off for many MILLENNIAL women.

I'm one of the most masculine guys I know, and most women still pass me up for guys who are far weaker, and inferior than me. I look like the stereotypical jock based on appearance(6'3, 265lbs, muscle-bound, tan), and I still get ignored all the time. Maybe if I acted cowards I could get girls? Maybe if I worried about getting my shoes dirty, I could get girls?

Of course, most younger women often go for guys loaded with money too, but I won't get into that beast right now.

JustAlex69 · 2017-08-28T08:07:11+00:00

truly "nice guys" dont call themselfs "nice guys" imo

ajcivitarese · 2017-08-27T20:41:33+00:00

Nothing sedditors didn't already know.

Title	My (22F) thoughts on nice guys
Author	Orobek
Upvotes	481
Comments	99
Date	August 27, 2017 8:36 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/6weln3/my_22f_thoughts_on_nice_guys/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/my-22f-thoughts-on-nice-guys.1432707 https://theredarchive.com/post/1432707

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