How do you feel about normalized 'androphobia'

CoffeeBoom · 2023-11-18T14:45:43+00:00

Fearing a group of people is generally seen as discriminatory, you don't have to offer sympathy to people who discriminate against you.

(edit : you can, and and that would be altruistic of you, but it's hard and you don't have to.)

Installah · 2023-11-18T15:52:49+00:00

It's absolutely unacceptable.

Here is what they will always say to you: we can't be mad at women for being concerned about their own safety.

But if you immediately replace men with any other demographic, the objection ceases to be reasonable. This is because we intrinsically accept that being afraid of black people, or immigrants, or Muslims doesn't actually protect you, isn't reasonable, and is offensive.

These categories themselves have no connection to the behavior you are trying to avoid, so using them for such a purpose is unreasonable and hateful.

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2023-11-18T14:45:33+00:00

It's wrong and usually hypocritical, since they almost never afford the same sympathy and understanding to men who've developed gynephobia (right term?) over traumatic experiences with women.

OddSeraph · 2023-11-18T14:58:04+00:00

men and male allies

Why would you ally with someone you're apparently deathly afraid of?

untamed-italian · 2023-11-18T16:59:31+00:00

To answer your post without semantics:

It's normalizing misandry. They expect us to accept their fears as if they are warranted, and they are not. Anyone who even halfway claims that women can only be safe by living in fear of men is no ally of men or women. They're either a fearmonger, a coward, or both, and in any case their fear presents more of a threat to me than I ever will to them.

If they want allies they can make us feel welcome. If they don't make us feel welcome then they don't want allies all that much, do they?

SvitlanaLeo · 2023-11-18T18:22:05+00:00

If they have PTSD, it's mental disorder and they should receive mental health care, not normalization.

country2poplarbeef · 2023-11-18T16:04:22+00:00

I think, if they were honest with themselves, you can't be allies with somebody from a group you're terrified of. It's not my job to convince you I'm human. They have to resolve that shit and realize I'm to be judged alongside every other human before I can be trusted as an ally. Otherwise, the people that will gain their trust will be the people who are best at manipulating, not those who are best at living their true selves. If you still live in fear, those living their true selves will be better off without you instead of walking on egg shells.

CatacombsRave · 2023-11-19T13:20:33+00:00

When you look at it, androphobia is the root of transphobia. What are the arguments against trans rights? It’s always some dangerous, creepy (conventionally unattractive) man trying to get into women’s spaces and destroy them. Or it’s keeping women safe from “biological men.” But you never hear it the other way around.

KatsutamiNanamoto · 2023-11-18T18:50:40+00:00

I was almost killed by a boy, presumably of Central Asian origin, on a taekwondo lesson. I have never felt an urge to hate boys/men/Asians/taekwondoists specifically. And I'm no superhuman, if I managed - anyone can. There can be literally no excuses for discrimination/bigotry/chauvinism/xenophobia.

untamed-italian · 2023-11-18T16:56:42+00:00

Why are we calling it "androphobia"?

Do we call white supremacy "afro-phobia"?

It's just misandry by another name. They're the ones who see their fear of men as more valuable than our dignity, they are the ones doing it to themselves, it isn't an affliction they have no control over.

NullableThought · 2023-11-18T19:32:48+00:00

Should I also be sympathetic of white people who fear black people as a group?

traveller1976 · 2023-11-18T16:24:55+00:00

Modern feminists teach women to be terrified of loser men, except 6 feet 6 pack 6 inch 6 figures. The Christian gray billionaires of the world can tie them up and torture them sexually that's OK. The hypocrisy is just incredible and legendary. No wonder men are in turn terrified of false accusation from women and don't approach anymore, except elite men who know they can get away with it.

terrorist_giraffe · 2023-11-19T02:45:27+00:00

One the one hand, it's understandable. Most women could easily be overpowered by most men, and media is filled with warnings about how dangerous life is for women. It's very similar to how I assume many men feel when walking past groups of aggressive-looking teenagers.

On the other hand, understandable or not, it is a form of prejudice, and not an accurate one. Most men will never overpower an unwilling woman, and most women will never be overpowered. Just because someone is capable of danger, doesn't mean they should be treated as dangerous. Being treated that way can have serious mental health effects on young men. Add to the mix the fact that large portions of society are telling men they need to be assertive, aggressive, dominant, etc. - basically, to be dangerous - and the rest of society demonizing men whether they're dangerous or not, and you've got an incredibly unfair and harmful double-standard.

So tl;dr, it's understandable why women would be afraid of men, but it's still harmful to men. Nobody wins, and people should be encouraged to be kind and understanding to each other.

hshsgdve · 2023-11-19T09:52:15+00:00

I put them in the same basket as David Duke.

They’re bigots, plain and simple.

Saerain · 2023-11-18T16:47:33+00:00

Imagining a world where all such bigotries are treated as phobias is interesting. If it could really be universal, we might be better off.

Also seems surreal in its impossibility. Maybe for Kuiper belt habitat networks or something.

pvtshoebox · 2023-11-18T15:10:05+00:00

It was taught to me in nursing school that it is a good idea for a female nurse to quietly ask every female patient if she would prefer not to have a male nurse.

The thinking was that some women are afraid to ask, and that it is "patient-centered care."

Kalsone · 2023-11-18T15:31:41+00:00

Just live my life. I'm not concerned with being identified as a feminist or ally.

If a woman is walking toward me at night and crosses the road, I don't take that personally. If we are walking in the same direction and I'm overtaking them and there is limited space for me to do that I'll slow down and wait for more room.

Peptocoptr · 2023-11-18T22:33:27+00:00

My stance on this very recently changed to one which is different to most of this sub. Please read all the way though before you make any assumptions about me.

When women complain or express fear about men. I take it seriously, and I look into what we, as men could be doing wrong to trigger such an agressive reaction. I obviously can't expect myself to change the behavior of men as a group and I still don't enable fear mongering or anti-male sentiments. I do call them out when I see them, but I also look at them as a learning experience to make the world a better place, understand where this misandry is coming from, and give women less of a reason to be angry or fearful of men. The women who act like this are human beings. Not inherently hateful propaganda machines. Thier behavior varies from questionable to completely unnacceptable and hateful, but they still deserve sympathy.

Do I sound like simpy feminist pushover? Well here's the twist:

I hold the women in my life to the exact same standard. I expect them to treat misoginists and sexist narratives the exact same way I treat misandrists as described above. I want men and women to better listen to each other, and better sympathize with one another. I also want to be the change I want to see in the world.

What better way to do that is there than by even accepting to listen to what the worst of us have to say? To reject the bigotry and the generalisations, but still accept the criticism underneath the disgusting words, as well as the possibillity that maybe there's a sliver of truth to them. Something that we can change about ourselves to make it so that we (both men and women) hear those kinds complaints less often.

Maybe I'm fucking nuts since I've never seen anyone else hold this point of view, but to me, there's no better way to empower both men and women. Give them a purpuse, and a reason to support and compliment each other again.

Song_of_Pain · 2023-11-18T19:23:29+00:00

I don't. It's bigotry. And it's enabled by our media which heightens womens' neuroticism.

Djdhdhudjdjd · 2023-11-19T02:14:52+00:00

I think that the only time you should feel sympathetic for them, is if their fear of men is of past trauma etc.

Averzan · 2023-11-20T03:09:42+00:00

That they should sit down on a machete.

I don't care if they personally feel like that, but they decided to translate it to international discourse that must be applied at every institution.

So, as it should be, I don't have any sympathy or empathy for them. If someone defamed you individually you all would feel more or less the same. The same goes here.

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